Have you tried a form of this deck from a pure LD standpoint? Without worrying about metalcraft on your end and just going in and blowing up their lands?
I admit, it has me intrigued...
Though the fact that it then becomes reliant on drawing liquidmetal in the opening hand is the main problem....
I know that the previous rule was that tokens would go to the graveyard long enough to trigger state based effects before vanishing.
However, I was playing a friend in magic and a token went away, and was about to go about my business triggering my state based effects but my friend interrupts saying that he thought they changed that rule on tokens in the big overall and now they just disappear without going to the graveyard.
I tried looking on the internet for answers, but everything about it was dated before the big rule change and so I can't be certain.
Hmm. Steampunk magic intrigues me greatly...
Do you have a more specific setting planned out?
I mean, how are you planning to flavorly segment the color pie in the world? I mean, I can see blue, white, possibly some red, and artifacts, of course, but how are you planning to put black, and (especially) green in that world?
yes, I understand that, which is why I'm having a hard time figuring out how to balance the deck ripping vs. matching fast clocks...
It'll probably have to run a good strong base of counterspells with cheap removal as well...
However, just a thought, cheap bounce cards will put cards back in their hand for me to target and rip away.....
(Also: Unsummon on Marit, Extirpate on Hexmage finishes the combo side of dark depths, zoo I can see more problematic though...)
I'm just don't know how I would balance it appropriately...
Well all, I've been getting bored of playing the same old styles of decks so lately I've been thinking of a way to build a rouge deck that plays in a new and odd way but can still hold its own..
The idea then occured to me: what if I played a control deck that controlled not by necessarily just countering spells or creatures, but by removing them straight from the opponent's deck before he ever saw them by either Sadistic Sacrament's way(removing whatever I want) or ala Extirpate (removing the rest of the copies from the deck).
If this works the way I see it, the deck doesn't even need a 'win con' per se... You simply would have neutered the deck to such a point that the opponent is not a threat anymore (and mostly draws lands) and then beat him at leisure.
A little hop onto card search later and I was surprised at the amount of cards in standard that said stuff along the lines of 'search target opponent's deck for cards and exile them'
Of course, I'm not the best deck builder around. I usually just get good ideas then research similar decks and tweak them to my liking with my roommate's help... However, I have yet to see a deck that focuses exclusively on this idea so I'm at a loss at how to go about this from complete scratch...
Anyone interested in helping me whip up a trial decklist? We can then move this into the developing deck section and get to work on tweaking and playtesting....
The hardest thing I see so far is trying to balance the deck neutering with enough acceleration and stall to survive long enough to dismantle their decks...
As for colors, black is (obviously) going to be prominent...
With probably blue for stalling counters....
(though red gives us Thought Hemorrhage we could splash for...)
Just one little nitbit detail I noticed: In the R, b/g decklist, it states that the life side of life//death side can turn your lands into creatures and create infinite combat steps with Hellkite Charger.
This doesn't work as the charger specifically states attacking creatures get to untap. This means that if you tap your creature lands for mana to pay for charger's ability, then they won't be attacking and therefore won't untap when the ability resolves.
Why are you worried about Traumatize? Progenitus will just go back to your library.
As for how many you want, 2 is a good number to use => Not often enough to draw and be useless but keeps you safe from drawing one and giving up.
If that doesn't feel like enough win con than you could always try an Inkwell Leviathan in there somewhere. You have the benefit of being able to hard cast it if you have to (though you get the weakness that it can be killed with deathtouch).
Anywho, there used to be a forum discussion about this, don't know what happened to it though. You can try to dig it up if you want.
Final thought: I can definitely see this deck as white/blue though when Zendy comes out. Though as of now, Bitterblossom and Mutavault are great tools to keep you in targets for Polymorph.
Just my two cents, but with Sanguine Bond what about Demon's Horn? Not only will you gain life from every card in your deck to keep afloat, but you also can further speed down their life with Sanguine...
Just a random idea.
I was looking at this and was comparing it to my fairy deck...
Technically, the polymorphs and the two progenitus are the only things that are really different...
I counted the board of fairies I run too: 15.
This deck transform into fairies so easily, what about running both?
Do combo first game, then, when they board in the stuff to neuter the combo, switch to a strong fairies deck and go from there.
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but while this isn't the exact question asked, it relates to the mechanics of the first question.
Since the game checks the state before objects enter play, then if I warp world into an acidic slime, will nothing happen since my opponent's lands and such come in at the same time as it?
(I heard that you can only target an opponent with a murderous redcap that you worlded into because of this same reason.)
Hey everyone, I was wondering if someone could help me.
I've been wanting to make an ooze deck for a little while, and I have a few ideas on what cards I should put in it, but I need a few ideas on narrowing it down...
Because of this, I don't have a deck idea to put in decks for critique so I turned here...
Ooze Garden (of course)
Grave Pact (seems awesome with ooze garden)
Nameless Inversion (for kill or pumping up oozes)
Mighty Emergance (pumping the oozes up even more)
Unwilling Recruit and/or Threaten (for stealing and oozing)
Makeshift Mannequin (for reanimating creatures to ooze again)
Some pump spells (to push weak creatures into emergance range. I don't know which ones would be good or how many I should use though.)
A few unearth creatures (like Hell's Thunder)
And that is the outline so far...
As you can see, it's a lot of cards so I don't know what should I include for definite, so I am putting it to the discerning eye of the people on these forums. ^^
Oh, while I'm here, quick question I'll ask in the rules forum if I can't find an answer here: Do I have time to ooze evoke creatures? I don't think I can, but I just want to make sure (otherwise Briarhorn has a place in the cards I want to include...)
(Note: Sorry the cards are not highlighted, my computer's mouse is being weird and I cannot highlight anything in this text box. ><)
Just throwing it out there, but what about Coat of Arms in the side? I know it could be beneficial for an opponent if they have a changling (like Changling Titan) or tribal deck, but then you could keep it boarded it out for the next match....
You could keep it in the side game one, see if it would be advantagous to your opponent during the game (like if they were playing Fairies) then, if it is okay, pop it in.
Tribal decks overall, with the exception of a few (like this one and fairies) are wanning in favor of more color centric decks....
It seems it would have huge benefits if played right...
Pushes your guys out of firespout and infest range as well as does better than an overrun most of the time for the alpha strike...
What do you guys think?
I'm wondering...
Should this have something that can gain you life?
If you play cryptic over punish ignorance, then is there another way to fit in some consistent life gain? Bitterblossom will slowly sap away the life of this deck, as I see it... Though I don't know since I haven't played with it in this deck yet...
If life gain is needed though, then what? My good friends Aven Riftwatchers have rotated out from Lark sadly...
Kitchen Finks is the obvious choice, but Lark doesn't recur them. Mannequin does, of course, so they could still be played in the deck (like Shriekmaw).
The only Lark recurable creature I can think of off the top of my head is Venerable Monk, though his 2 life gain with nothing else seems to make him underwhelming, and I am iffy to play such an underwhelming card....
The other thought I had was: would Doomed Necromancer be good? Sure, it is not very quick, but you could reanimate him with a dead Lark, then pop him next turn and get the same lark back, ready to be popped off again for the necro and another card...
I was playing a casual game against a friend of mine last night but we had to give it up based on the fact two major questions arose from the match and, feeling like we divided by zero, we simply decided to quit the game since it was late and we didn't want to create a black hole in space and time. The main questions were:
1) If Dominating Licid changes from an enchantment back into a creature, does it once again suffer from summoning sickness?
And
2) If a Copy Enchantment is in play copying Dominating Licid turned into an enchantment, what happens if I pay the blue to end it's effect? Does it simply go to the graveyard or can it turn into the creature form of the Licid, complete with the ability to change back into another control enchantment?
Don't mean to butt in on the argument, but I wanted to make an observation...
Those cards listed give -/- to all creatures, yes, but that is not the same as destroying all creatures.
Ideally, it would be played when you had a creature/creatures who could survive the -/- but your opponent did not, thus effectively wiping the board and leaving you with at least one creature who would regain his full power at the end of the turn, thus putting you in a better board position.
You sacrifice creatures (but not all of them) to give yourself a better board position, very black.
I agree damnation will not be printed again: destroying all creatures is far more white since it balances all the time. However, I believe a card could be printed for black that could potentially wipe the board, like the above examples, but it would always leave an opportunity to have one of your creatures survive at the end, leaving the board unbalanced.
Something like "All creatures get -5/-5 untill end of turn"
I admit, it has me intrigued...
Though the fact that it then becomes reliant on drawing liquidmetal in the opening hand is the main problem....
However, I was playing a friend in magic and a token went away, and was about to go about my business triggering my state based effects but my friend interrupts saying that he thought they changed that rule on tokens in the big overall and now they just disappear without going to the graveyard.
I tried looking on the internet for answers, but everything about it was dated before the big rule change and so I can't be certain.
Thank you for your help.
Do you have a more specific setting planned out?
I mean, how are you planning to flavorly segment the color pie in the world? I mean, I can see blue, white, possibly some red, and artifacts, of course, but how are you planning to put black, and (especially) green in that world?
It'll probably have to run a good strong base of counterspells with cheap removal as well...
However, just a thought, cheap bounce cards will put cards back in their hand for me to target and rip away.....
(Also: Unsummon on Marit, Extirpate on Hexmage finishes the combo side of dark depths, zoo I can see more problematic though...)
I'm just don't know how I would balance it appropriately...
The idea then occured to me: what if I played a control deck that controlled not by necessarily just countering spells or creatures, but by removing them straight from the opponent's deck before he ever saw them by either Sadistic Sacrament's way(removing whatever I want) or ala Extirpate (removing the rest of the copies from the deck).
If this works the way I see it, the deck doesn't even need a 'win con' per se... You simply would have neutered the deck to such a point that the opponent is not a threat anymore (and mostly draws lands) and then beat him at leisure.
A little hop onto card search later and I was surprised at the amount of cards in standard that said stuff along the lines of 'search target opponent's deck for cards and exile them'
Of course, I'm not the best deck builder around. I usually just get good ideas then research similar decks and tweak them to my liking with my roommate's help... However, I have yet to see a deck that focuses exclusively on this idea so I'm at a loss at how to go about this from complete scratch...
Anyone interested in helping me whip up a trial decklist? We can then move this into the developing deck section and get to work on tweaking and playtesting....
The hardest thing I see so far is trying to balance the deck neutering with enough acceleration and stall to survive long enough to dismantle their decks...
As for colors, black is (obviously) going to be prominent...
With probably blue for stalling counters....
(though red gives us Thought Hemorrhage we could splash for...)
Anyways, thanks in advance. ^^
Just one little nitbit detail I noticed: In the R, b/g decklist, it states that the life side of life//death side can turn your lands into creatures and create infinite combat steps with Hellkite Charger.
This doesn't work as the charger specifically states attacking creatures get to untap. This means that if you tap your creature lands for mana to pay for charger's ability, then they won't be attacking and therefore won't untap when the ability resolves.
Just a small fyi I caught.
As for how many you want, 2 is a good number to use => Not often enough to draw and be useless but keeps you safe from drawing one and giving up.
If that doesn't feel like enough win con than you could always try an Inkwell Leviathan in there somewhere. You have the benefit of being able to hard cast it if you have to (though you get the weakness that it can be killed with deathtouch).
Anywho, there used to be a forum discussion about this, don't know what happened to it though. You can try to dig it up if you want.
Final thought: I can definitely see this deck as white/blue though when Zendy comes out. Though as of now, Bitterblossom and Mutavault are great tools to keep you in targets for Polymorph.
I was looking at this and was comparing it to my fairy deck...
Technically, the polymorphs and the two progenitus are the only things that are really different...
I counted the board of fairies I run too: 15.
This deck transform into fairies so easily, what about running both?
Do combo first game, then, when they board in the stuff to neuter the combo, switch to a strong fairies deck and go from there.
Since the game checks the state before objects enter play, then if I warp world into an acidic slime, will nothing happen since my opponent's lands and such come in at the same time as it?
(I heard that you can only target an opponent with a murderous redcap that you worlded into because of this same reason.)
I've been wanting to make an ooze deck for a little while, and I have a few ideas on what cards I should put in it, but I need a few ideas on narrowing it down...
Because of this, I don't have a deck idea to put in decks for critique so I turned here...
Ooze Garden (of course)
Grave Pact (seems awesome with ooze garden)
Nameless Inversion (for kill or pumping up oozes)
Mighty Emergance (pumping the oozes up even more)
Unwilling Recruit and/or Threaten (for stealing and oozing)
Makeshift Mannequin (for reanimating creatures to ooze again)
Some pump spells (to push weak creatures into emergance range. I don't know which ones would be good or how many I should use though.)
A few unearth creatures (like Hell's Thunder)
And that is the outline so far...
As you can see, it's a lot of cards so I don't know what should I include for definite, so I am putting it to the discerning eye of the people on these forums. ^^
Oh, while I'm here, quick question I'll ask in the rules forum if I can't find an answer here: Do I have time to ooze evoke creatures? I don't think I can, but I just want to make sure (otherwise Briarhorn has a place in the cards I want to include...)
(Note: Sorry the cards are not highlighted, my computer's mouse is being weird and I cannot highlight anything in this text box. ><)
You could keep it in the side game one, see if it would be advantagous to your opponent during the game (like if they were playing Fairies) then, if it is okay, pop it in.
Tribal decks overall, with the exception of a few (like this one and fairies) are wanning in favor of more color centric decks....
It seems it would have huge benefits if played right...
Pushes your guys out of firespout and infest range as well as does better than an overrun most of the time for the alpha strike...
What do you guys think?
Should this have something that can gain you life?
If you play cryptic over punish ignorance, then is there another way to fit in some consistent life gain? Bitterblossom will slowly sap away the life of this deck, as I see it... Though I don't know since I haven't played with it in this deck yet...
If life gain is needed though, then what? My good friends Aven Riftwatchers have rotated out from Lark sadly...
Kitchen Finks is the obvious choice, but Lark doesn't recur them. Mannequin does, of course, so they could still be played in the deck (like Shriekmaw).
The only Lark recurable creature I can think of off the top of my head is Venerable Monk, though his 2 life gain with nothing else seems to make him underwhelming, and I am iffy to play such an underwhelming card....
The other thought I had was: would Doomed Necromancer be good? Sure, it is not very quick, but you could reanimate him with a dead Lark, then pop him next turn and get the same lark back, ready to be popped off again for the necro and another card...
What are your guys thoughts about it?
1) If Dominating Licid changes from an enchantment back into a creature, does it once again suffer from summoning sickness?
And
2) If a Copy Enchantment is in play copying Dominating Licid turned into an enchantment, what happens if I pay the blue to end it's effect? Does it simply go to the graveyard or can it turn into the creature form of the Licid, complete with the ability to change back into another control enchantment?
Thanks for the help. ^^
Don't mean to butt in on the argument, but I wanted to make an observation...
Those cards listed give -/- to all creatures, yes, but that is not the same as destroying all creatures.
Ideally, it would be played when you had a creature/creatures who could survive the -/- but your opponent did not, thus effectively wiping the board and leaving you with at least one creature who would regain his full power at the end of the turn, thus putting you in a better board position.
You sacrifice creatures (but not all of them) to give yourself a better board position, very black.
I agree damnation will not be printed again: destroying all creatures is far more white since it balances all the time. However, I believe a card could be printed for black that could potentially wipe the board, like the above examples, but it would always leave an opportunity to have one of your creatures survive at the end, leaving the board unbalanced.
Something like "All creatures get -5/-5 untill end of turn"
Sorry again for butting into the argument...