2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    trygon predator is very much so modern legal, it was printed in dissention originally and is not currently banned. inkmoth would be replacing horizon canopy which I don't own yet. I have a second GQ in the slot right now and im okay running 4 colorless lands.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I'm returning to this deck after taking a few months off of modern (still watching, just not playing) and I wanted to run a few things by you folks to see what you think. I'm running a retret to coralhelm kessig wolf-run version of the deck for the places where that matters. I don't really like the vizier of remedies lists very much.

    I've been dissatisfied previously with voice of resurgence as an aggressive 2 drop since none of the deck really interacts with it and it makes rest in peace do more work than shrinking knight, but there just wasn't really a better card I thought. Recently I've been considering fleecemane lion though. I know that 90% of the time that card is just watchwolf, but honestly that seems better than playing grizzly bears and the idea of being able to curve an end of turn CoCo into activating fleecemane next turn seems very strong to me.

    I was also thinking of trying one maindeck dromoka's command as a 5th removal spell that has some additional utility. just running that many noncreature spells in my CoCo deck might be enough to keep me off it, but the deck is light on removal and I can see the other modes being worthwhile.

    I also had a few ideas about the utility land package to ask about. Field of ruin replacing the ghost quarter is interesting since getting the basic seems nice with knight, but 2 mana activation cost is meh. Is there a consensus on that? the other thing I wanted to try was running inkmoth nexus. I already have noble hierarchs and qasali pridemages for exalted, as well as kessig wolf-run to one shot opponents, which certainly seems like enough to get there to me. I think poison kills would be completely unexpected from this kind of deck and could very much so steal some games.

    Finally I was curious why trygon predator doesn't see play. It seems castable, useful, and worth hitting off of CoCo, is it just too slow?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I'm playing with sideboard slots right now because I'm just kinda dissatisfied with it, and I've been throwing around the idea of jamming a Fiery Justice or two. Obviously it isn't an easy card to cast, and it only wants to come in if retreats are coming out, but I kinda like the upside anyway. With tron as the only real exception, it straight up kills every creature or planeswalker I can think of shy of opposing knights and sometimes tarmogoyf, as well as putting in solid work against elves, affinity, and eldrazi. I particularly like that fiery justice can kill a 10/10 death's shadow and that it can hit eldrazi's mana dorks as well as their big creatures effectively. What do we think about bringing the justice, worth the risk?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Just to weigh in on the land discussion that was happening above, I like the idea of running switching some of the fetches to wooded foothills if you run the sacred foundry. Smooths out the targets a bit over flooded strand and (sometimes) breeding pool. I don't like cutting hallowed fountain entirely though just because it means we depend on 1 land and then just mana dorks for blue mana at that point.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I wound up playing the fourth path and swapping some other stuff around to get the additional creature anyway. I threw the reflector mage in the board instead of some questionable tech. After two heartbreaking games against abzan coco and abzan midrange I managed to pull out a win against blue tron and made 9th place in the league, narrowly missing top 8. I think my ability to beat the tron player was wholly due to knowing blue tron very well and from knight being a monster of a card. I think I could have won the first match too if I had played better.

    While I did enjoy having a slightly higher creature count, I felt myself really missing the third retreat. I don't know if I just need to get used to fewer retreats or if it's actually worse for me. I definitely think I'm going to re-evaluate my list though.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I think I'm going to drop my fourth Path to Exile for one of the removal creatures just to get my creature count up a tad. does anyone have opinions on Reflector Mage versus Fiend Hunter versus Fairgrounds Warden? I have personally never been a big fan of Reflector Mage as a card, but I see a ton of people running it in knightfall.

    On the issue of fetches, it's a much bigger deal to not have misty if you run basic island. Most lists don't and so it doesn't matter, but if you do then misty is far superior to foothills. I don't think you can cover the difference with any other combination of fetches either, since fetching forests is just so important.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I seem to be a bit late to the conversation, but I think you folks may be underestimating the new Nissa a bit. Treating her as a 3 cmc spell, she plays nicely as part of a curve. Cast for 1, activate the +2 setting up your next turn, then she's sitting pretty at 3 loyalty for her 0. In a deck with 4 coco, 4 path, 2 retreat, and 1 Nissa that leaves space for 27 creatures and 22 lands. Knightfall doesn't normally play 4 cost creatures so we can safely assume her 0 hits off of all the creatures. This tells us that 49/60 or 81% of the deck are hits for her ability. If you're only interested in creatures, she hits the same % of cards as coco (though is admittedly much worse at finding specific cards), and can keep doing it. Treating her as a 4 drop lets her do the same thing while being bolt resistant, treating her as a 5 drop lets her 0 right away, treating her as a 6 drop does the same thing but she's bolt resistant, and casting her for 8 lets us hit for 10 immediately. Most of those modes aren't likely to matter, but I think the fact that they exist is valuable. regardless having her 0 essentially read "put the top card of your library into play" looks pretty strong to me. She can also just stick around and try yo plus to dig for whatever you need each turn, which is actually pretty crazy as well.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from RPD »
    Kira is not really good in this deck, it's anti synergy with retreat, kessig and blessed alliance... you can try though.

    You can only queller the visions when cast


    Just to clarify, the way suspend works you pay the cost, and put the card into exile with counters on it. each upkeep there is a triggered ability to remove a counter from the ancestral visions, and if after that there are no counters on the suspended card, it is cast without paying its mana cost. this is the point at which you can spell queller the ancestral visions, not when mana is paid. if you can stifle the trigger to remove a counter that effectively delays the spell by a turn, and if you have an eldrazi processor or something you can also put the exiled spell into the graveyard, which functionally counters it.

    you may also want to know that if your spell queller is killed the ancestral vision will be put onto the stack immediately, and not into suspend (if you didn't already know that)
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I'm thinking about playing westvale abbey as one of the utility lands in the deck. it gives you an entirely land based way to win the game, it can convert lategame dorks into a big threat, and it also works well with either gavony or wolf-run (or at least I believe it does). it does seem mana intensive, but I think it looks worthwhile. Has anyone here tried the card and been satisfied (or hated it)?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from rogue_LOVE »

    One final thought for now: I've been thinking about and testing with two Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the board. It's been really useful in those game vs. for example Jund and Grixis where you usually just need to bring out the combo because all your crap is dying anyways and you just want more threats. It usually closes out a game within a turn or two, and if not, it just overwhelms your opponent and then goes over the top. (Ultimating isn't even out of the question, although it's usually completely unnecessary.) However, I've also been thinking about two Garruk Wildspeaker in that slot, as he has some real upsides:

    1. Making a 3/3 is serious business when we're playing beatdown (almost always)
    2. Untapping lands means we can cast him on 5 mana and then hold up for Spell Queller (or 4 and represent Negate/Unified Will)
    3. He Overruns for us after rolling up just once, which on top of CoCo and tons of dudes is usually game over
    4. He's GG instead of WW, which seems to fit a little more easily (although lists going with Vendilion Clique may have a hard time with either)
    I haven't actually gotten around to testing with him yet, but I think those perks warrant a look. My gut feeling is that Elspeth's ability to roll to 5 while generating bodies or throwing your creatures at your opponent is going to outvalue Garruk, but you never know until you try.

    Of course you can always go the Ancestral Vision route if you really want to go serious in card advantage post-board, but I don't think that's what we want to do.


    Since we're discussing planeswalkers and card advantage anyway, what do we think of Domri Rade? I haven't done the math but after a fetch or two his plus looks like a little over 50% to hit, and both of his minuses seem relevant to us. Being one mana cheaper might matter, but I don't know if the red in his cost is a hinderance.

    Unrelated, but I've started to get the cards I need to put this together in paper (yay) which means that this is the perfect time to get any last tweaks done. So this is what I'm working on right now:


    I had a couple questions arise recently that seem beyond the ability of anyone I know to answer, so I thought I'd see how you all feel.
    1) the Horizon Canopy feels kind of random and unnecessary. is it important, or can I cut it for another shock/BFZ dual thing/utility land?
    2) Between Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker which one should I be playing? I have a personal preference for courser, but is the better attack on tracker just worth it? or should I be looking at my metagame to make that decision?
    3) I have blessed alliance here mostly to edict infect, but the infect presence seems much reduced since the bannings. Should I be playing Kitchen finks/something else instead?
    4)I've found a few ways I can pretty easily make a few cards space in my sideboard, but I have no clue what to do with them. should I nab affinity hate, bojuka bog, more/better counterspells, or something else entirely?

    I'd appreciate any advice you kind people can give, I lack the experience and this is just over the heads of my peers.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    it's weird to me to see all of these lists running 4 noble hierarch, 3 birds of paradise despite also running wolf run. are we approaching a consensus that hierarch is better?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from RPD »

    CoCo and evolution do different things (card advantage vs card selection) and don't play well together (CoCo wants to have as many hits as possible). Definitely don't recommend mixing both. Go either one way or another.

    I've said it a lot in this thread. Renegade rallier is mediocre in regular knightfall (either coco or evolution). What do you want to do with evolution, sac voice to search for rallier and bring voice back? At that point I would run kikievolution (does the same but with pia and kiraan, which is a much better card overall). I only like rallier in the landfall deck that we were discussing earlier.


    I was just looking to do something a little toolbox-y. The theory I guess was that the deck loves its 3 drops, and evolution is just your choice of 3 drop when you cast it, and it can do other things if needed. If running EE is untenable, then I can drop it without too much complaint. a 4 mana dig through time that puts creatures into play seems stronger overall, even if I personally like it less.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from RPD »

    If you want to try eldritch evolution I could recommend you the version I brew and played for a long time

    https://deckstats.net/decks/2563/620780-bant-eldritch-evolution-v3

    Problem is, there is no good toolbox version because both toolbox cards are not as good as collected company. And most of the time you dont need a specific creature to win the game, you just want to win the battlefield and collected does that amazingly well. I really, really tried hard to brew something with it but in the end I'm playing with collected.

    Anyway, most of the cards are the same so building both evolution and collected versions shouldn't be much of a problem Grin


    After looking at this and going through some of the older posts, I think I'd like to try a version with a couple of eldritch evolution supplemental to the CoCo package. something like 2 EE, 2-3 targets, and some additional snags in the sideboard. does that seem reasonable, or is it too ambitious to try and fit that into the deck?

    Also, eldritch evolution with renegade rallier seems like a solid synergy, since the evolution enables revolt.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Hey everybody! I'm very strongly considering buying into knightfall (I love a lot of things about this deck) but I have to ask before I start getting the pieces, is there any chance that a version running Eldritch Evolutionor Chord of Callingcould be competitive? I think I personally would just like something with a little stronger of a creature toolbox, and I don't think Collected Companyis the best enabler for cards you're running a low count of.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.