Even if LED gets removed, you don't think the deck can get stuff done with all the spellbombs, EE, chimeric mass, etc..and the various forms of recursion? Keep the opponent's creatures down with pyrite, aether, ee, brittle effigy, shuriken and swing with my dudes. I guess I need to be able to handle control better. Perhaps I should add some bigger beaters to the mix, say a sundering titan or the like, have more stuff to do with welder, make the deck not so one-track and not as easily shut down. Or is trying to play legacy bomberman simply a lost cause? I feel like it has some potential.
So I was thinking about Bomberman perhaps being viable in legacy. I'm sorry if this has already been discussed recently. I've come up with a rough draft list of what I think would work well. I'd like suggestions and critique. Besides the obvious idea of Salvagers + LED, this deck is basically a huge trinket mage toolbox. I've got acadamy ruins, welders and squires to reuse artifacts, especially the spellbombs, which work good early game to dig and later a repeatable 2dmg, return creature or 5 life gain can really wear on the opponent. I feel as though the sunbeam spellbomb could be very hard to keep up with for some decks.
All of these 1-of artifacts should be at your disposal at ease with x4 trinket mage, artificer's intuition and enlightened tutor. If you can search for an artifact and you don't have something unanswered to deal with on the opponent's side, it's probably best to grab std, then spellbombs to dig further. Myr mindservant is there to work with top (but still not sure how i feel about including the myr).
Avarice Totem. I threw it in there simply because it's tutorable via trinket mage and I thought some welder shenanigans with it would be fun, but the more I think about it the more it seems too situational to work. Thoughts?
Also, Brittle Effigy. Is this thing worth it? What other 1 cost artifacts could go in it's stead? Do I have any 1 costs already that seem unnecessary?
Comments? Suggestions? Is there anything obvious for this decktype that I'm missing?
also, sorry if this doesn't belong in this area. not sure where this belongs
Even with so many miracles and prematurely drawn miracles, brainstorms put them back on top. I have yet to have a problem with that. The tides put my tops and creatures back, yes, but my creatures and top are cheap and casting the tide always sets back the opponent more than it does me. I don't know what else to say, my list has been working so I'm going to stick with how I've been running it, continually tweaking it. I will try a list with white instead of red though.
I've tested it a lot and I've changed the list quite a bit. I'm still running the Dark Confidants and after having played at least 20 games, I have yet to lose more than 3 life with a DC reveal (most of the time I'm losing 0 or 1 life). With x4 Top, x4Brainstorm, x1 Ponder and x2 JtMS I feel there's no reason not to run DC here. I am winning games with this list and attribute many of those wins to DC. I admit I was wrong about Mindshrieker, there definitely wasn't enough mana lying around to put into it. I have been considering running a single Necroplasm or Stinkweed Imp to have a recurring threat/defense. Since Necroplasm's dredge is only 2, it could be used as an extra tool to dig through the deck alongside Top. What do you think?
Also, I understand the deck is a bit more aggro, but it's still aggro/control miracle so I don't see why it can't be here, but I apologize if I'm wrong and I'll delete the posts.
This is the list I came up with just now. I tried to go for a bit more aggro-ish style with it. I'm new to playing this deck so any help would be appreciated.
Has anyone considered Mindshrieker in this deck? I apologize if this has been discussed already.
Since some of these deck lists have a decent amount of higher converted mana cost cards, it seems like it could be a few swing win with this guy. It would also be able to mess with your opponents deck as well. Correct me if I'm missing something here that makes this guy not viable, or perhaps there isn't room for him? Or maybe the high cost cards in the deck aren't worth ditching?
Cut crucible, abyss, and totem. Add bitterblossom, more smokestack, more braids.
Really? I feel as though crucible is too important to cut completely. I ran x3 when I played this deck. Totem is so good too, I couldn't see taking more than 1 or 2 out. Perhaps put a few copies of abyss to sideboard instead of main.
Well, to be honest, I didn't even start using vengeance until I saw this thread and it's been working alright. I've been slightly tweaking it over and over. Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch sometimes to "go off", but I feel like with enough adjustment it will become more consistent. I'm a bit new to piloting combo decks of this fashion in legacy so I realize my list isn't as streamlined as it could be. For example, I totally forgot about using wishes, but I shall be composing a list that uses burning wish shortly and will begin testing that. Goblin Lore and Gamble are the two cards that keep the deck going, and most of the time the cards you discard are almost as useful as they would be having them in your hand.
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
2 Goblin Welder
2 Leonin Squire
1 Myr Mindservant
3 Mox Diamond
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Origin Spellbomb
1 Avarice Totem
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Chimeric Mass
1 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shuriken
1 Tormod's Crypt
All of these 1-of artifacts should be at your disposal at ease with x4 trinket mage, artificer's intuition and enlightened tutor. If you can search for an artifact and you don't have something unanswered to deal with on the opponent's side, it's probably best to grab std, then spellbombs to dig further. Myr mindservant is there to work with top (but still not sure how i feel about including the myr).
Avarice Totem. I threw it in there simply because it's tutorable via trinket mage and I thought some welder shenanigans with it would be fun, but the more I think about it the more it seems too situational to work. Thoughts?
Also, Brittle Effigy. Is this thing worth it? What other 1 cost artifacts could go in it's stead? Do I have any 1 costs already that seem unnecessary?
Comments? Suggestions? Is there anything obvious for this decktype that I'm missing?
also, sorry if this doesn't belong in this area. not sure where this belongs
2 City of Traitors
1 Academy Ruins
2 Great Furnace
3 Seat of the Synod
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Goblin Welder
3 Trinket Mage
1 Sundering Titan
4 Grindstone
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Mindslaver
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
2 Repeal
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Gamble
I would cut Borderland Ranger and Grazing Gladehart over anything else.
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Yavimaya Hollow
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Cyclone
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Weatherseed Totem
3 Smokestack
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Taunting Elf
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Acidic Slime
What about Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox in place of the ESG?
Also, I understand the deck is a bit more aggro, but it's still aggro/control miracle so I don't see why it can't be here, but I apologize if I'm wrong and I'll delete the posts.
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Island
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Thunderous Wrath
3 Devastation Tide
1 Ponder
4 Underground Sea
3 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Mindshrieker
3 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Temporal Mastery
3 Devastation Tide
4 Thunderous Wrath
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Since some of these deck lists have a decent amount of higher converted mana cost cards, it seems like it could be a few swing win with this guy. It would also be able to mess with your opponents deck as well. Correct me if I'm missing something here that makes this guy not viable, or perhaps there isn't room for him? Or maybe the high cost cards in the deck aren't worth ditching?
I would cut Dark Ritual.
Really? I feel as though crucible is too important to cut completely. I ran x3 when I played this deck. Totem is so good too, I couldn't see taking more than 1 or 2 out. Perhaps put a few copies of abyss to sideboard instead of main.
1 tendils of agony
1 infernal tutor
3 past in flames
4 desperate ritual
4 pyretic ritual
4 rite of flame
4 seething song
4 manamorphose
4 goblin lore
4 gamble
4 gitaxian probe
4 lions-eye diamon
4 lotus petal
4 simian spirit guide
8 mountain