Unfortunately, with SOI block rotating out, there are only two non-Ixalan vampires in Standard after Ixalan releases: Gifted Aetherborn and Yahenni, Undying Partisan. Those are both solid, however. But you are correct that the tribe is really going to need several Lords to be worth playing. At this point, it seems like we probably won't see a traditional 1BW +1/+1 and ability lord, since those have shown up at uncommon in the last several sets and the BW uncommon slot is already taken with the token-generation spell. And what we've seen of the Rare sheet doesn't seem to have enough unknown multicolored cards to account for a rare lord - just the Mythic, which we can estimate as having vigilance, lifelink, and an active ability.
Disagree with "needs several lords", it just needs more creature synergies, one lord would be enough but it needs to be correctly placed on the curve, currently there's only 4 one drops and 4 two drops that seem reasonable in a b/w vampire deck, there needs to be more options in order for the tribe to have a decent deck before the next set comes out.
Dredge is a value deck. It is consistent within x amount of turns where x is relevant to the amount of enablers/dredgers hit. Simian spirit guide is a terrible inclusion, which barely does anything proactive to the gameplan. Run wraiths/probes if you want more speed.
Haunted dead is a decent 1 of, but I've personally gone away from the rally plan, as it gives an unnecessary target for counterspells.
Burning inquiry is a no go for me, it's just so inconsistent and you just cannot cast it on t1, if you discard your lands it sets you back 3 or so turns. It is used to accelerate which is just unneeded. Tormenting voice, faithless looting, and neonate are still the best consistent enablers.
19-21 lands feels right. 3 lands in the opener is a great feeling with that amount of land in the deck.
Shriekhorn Ive seen a ton of lists play, I have not tested it but it seems very lax in explosiveness and towards our gameplan, but it can mill 4 cards before we draw on turn 2, so I think it deserves a good look at.
I realized that memory's journey is also used to stop Melira coco decks from comboing you out. It's definitely one of my worst matchups thus far.
Hi, can someone help me? I dont know why dredge players are running 1-3 memoriñs journey on the sb
I have noticed that also, I suppose it helps against combo decks like storm (to prevent pyromancer's ascension shenanigans) and it looks pretty good versus the mirror, basically keeping their threats or dredgers out of the yard to set them back a turn or 2 (hopefully more).
In my mind it is just a 'good' option to stop graveyard interactions. We don't need it in our hand (or if you play a jund mana base, you don't WANT it in your hand at all) and can use it straight from the graveyard for a mana, so in my mind, better than tormod's crypt. It's also on par with bojuka bog -- both essentially costing you 1 mana for the turn (and you don't need to ever get it back to your hand from loam) so I think it's a bit better.
EDIT: It can also recharge our narcomoeba count if for some reason you're out of options. It doesn't do absolutely nothing versus mill... But it definitely won't win us that matchup lol.
You can't conflag a maniac, when they cast him, that's usually the turn they win -- conflag is sorcery speed. They also play pact of negation. It's probably ad nauseum's best gameplan versus us unless you happen to board abrupt decay.
Ad nauseum is just a bad match up for us and comes down to if we can damage them quickly enough, or I suppose gain life like a user above said he did. I just don't think that will work for long because ad naus players with be privy to the fact that's all we have versus them and start boarding in maniac for sure. Thoughtseize is the best card we can have for that match up that serves multiple purposes.
I don't play the fetchland manabase, the 1-of haunted dead is to get back amalgams on my opponent's endstep and get them out of my hand if I don't have a conflagrate in the yard. There really aren't better options at the moment in modern, so maybe try testing it before you put it down huh?
scourge devils / rally the peasants are not cards you want to draw, they are finishers, and having just one makes it a very small chance it's in your opening hand. Rally has a higher impact but is softer to counterspells, scourge devils has a much lower impact, is weaker to blockers/removal (-4 potential damage if they just bolt him), but carries even weight vs. non-interactive gameplans.
I don't really have an opinion on scourge devils, but rally is really good with the new haunted dead, and I would switch to scourge devils in a really controlling meta, but either way if they are countering rally you're still bashing for 5-10 and they're wasting their mana attempting not to die while still not dealing with the problem.
Lore is a slower version of burning inquiry. Casting two mana spells we can't dredge (or flashback) back to our hand feels wrong. The only card I wouldn't mind doing that with is tormenting voice and some selective sideboard cards.
The new zombie is interesting, however, I don't think this pure form of dredge isn't trying to cast 1/1's that don't do anything the turn they enter play. It allows you to draw cards, but the deal is that amalgam comes in tapped so you can't draw asap when it enters the battlefield, then the next turn you want to attack usually.. So tapping to dredge some more and take damage doesn't sound all that amazing, but I may be wrong. If instead the zombie was a copy of putrid imp where you could discard cards at will then yes it would easily be a maindeckable 4-of in my list. Its actual discard ability feels too slow, if you pay B, wait a turn, then 1B you can discard a card. If it was B I would consider it, but 2 mana kills it for me personally. I think stitchwing skaab and haunted dead are similar effects that are simply better in our shell. We don't need them in our hand to get value and they include evasiveness.
This is what I'm currently working with. Testing natural state in the place of nature's claim. It's okay, no noticeable differences. Yes, I keep a lot of one handers, but including dakmor salvage it's 16 lands and I can cast life from the loam off of one copperline gorge + dakmor salvage if I keep a one lander. Hasn't caused too many problems so far. Let me know what you all think.
Pretty easy with Dredge TBH. Typically its used to fetch a second land on those infamous one land hands. That said, I have been testing a slightly more "comboey" version using Mishra's baubles & sword of the meek to make it easier to activate. I've played dredge since the original deck in 07 as well as the current legacy and vintage iterations of the deck.
General thoughts on the 57-60th slots (I feel its really between Ulvenwald, Voice, and Infestation):
Using this card makes no sense at all. Assuming you nail the delirium early, which is close to improbable, you can get a land (basic land type, not even a useful land), or a ...what... neonate? Pointless. You're playing 4 non-lands that get you a land for 1 green mana, just play 4 more lands.. It doesn't cost anything to play 4 more lands.
How do you enable delirium with it? You have 24 creatures, 16 sorceries, 17 lands and 3 instants.. It just seems inconsistent. How do you turn on traverse?
"if it's not in our opening hand we are never going to play it"
Irrelevant, dredge plays a bunch of cards that are useless when they hit the graveyard and we will never play them (in each game). The list includes tormenting voice, burning inquiry, streetwraith, lightning axe.. The list goes on.
"and the effect isn't really what we are going for"
This makes no sense; it's uncounterable discard, it kills x/2's, gains life and gets rid of potential main deck hate like anger of the gods.
Thoughtseize is widely played as a sideboard card against jund and jeskai decks that could board in rest in peace, gets rid of kalitas and scooze (two huge issues for us) for 1 mana. Again calling it a "dead card most of the time" due to it being uncastable once hitting the graveyard is entirely irrelevant.
EDIT: The real reason this card isn't good for us is because our gameplan has the misfortune of being non-interactive. You'd be cutting speed, like street wraiths, or burning inquiries to accommodate this card. It fights tormenting voice, which accelerates our game plan further. It isn't as good as conflagration in any way and fights to perform a similar action. It isn't a creature, which makes it worse to have post board with gnaw to the bone in the deck (small negative). Lastly the "sorcery or instant" clause is what kills the potential here. There is practically no reason to play this card over conflagration or tormenting voice and cutting speed for interaction is not worth it in game one.
Disagree with "needs several lords", it just needs more creature synergies, one lord would be enough but it needs to be correctly placed on the curve, currently there's only 4 one drops and 4 two drops that seem reasonable in a b/w vampire deck, there needs to be more options in order for the tribe to have a decent deck before the next set comes out.
Haunted dead is a decent 1 of, but I've personally gone away from the rally plan, as it gives an unnecessary target for counterspells.
Burning inquiry is a no go for me, it's just so inconsistent and you just cannot cast it on t1, if you discard your lands it sets you back 3 or so turns. It is used to accelerate which is just unneeded. Tormenting voice, faithless looting, and neonate are still the best consistent enablers.
19-21 lands feels right. 3 lands in the opener is a great feeling with that amount of land in the deck.
Shriekhorn Ive seen a ton of lists play, I have not tested it but it seems very lax in explosiveness and towards our gameplan, but it can mill 4 cards before we draw on turn 2, so I think it deserves a good look at.
I realized that memory's journey is also used to stop Melira coco decks from comboing you out. It's definitely one of my worst matchups thus far.
I have noticed that also, I suppose it helps against combo decks like storm (to prevent pyromancer's ascension shenanigans) and it looks pretty good versus the mirror, basically keeping their threats or dredgers out of the yard to set them back a turn or 2 (hopefully more).
In my mind it is just a 'good' option to stop graveyard interactions. We don't need it in our hand (or if you play a jund mana base, you don't WANT it in your hand at all) and can use it straight from the graveyard for a mana, so in my mind, better than tormod's crypt. It's also on par with bojuka bog -- both essentially costing you 1 mana for the turn (and you don't need to ever get it back to your hand from loam) so I think it's a bit better.
EDIT: It can also recharge our narcomoeba count if for some reason you're out of options. It doesn't do absolutely nothing versus mill... But it definitely won't win us that matchup lol.
Ad nauseum is just a bad match up for us and comes down to if we can damage them quickly enough, or I suppose gain life like a user above said he did. I just don't think that will work for long because ad naus players with be privy to the fact that's all we have versus them and start boarding in maniac for sure. Thoughtseize is the best card we can have for that match up that serves multiple purposes.
I don't really have an opinion on scourge devils, but rally is really good with the new haunted dead, and I would switch to scourge devils in a really controlling meta, but either way if they are countering rally you're still bashing for 5-10 and they're wasting their mana attempting not to die while still not dealing with the problem.
The new zombie is interesting, however, I don't think this pure form of dredge isn't trying to cast 1/1's that don't do anything the turn they enter play. It allows you to draw cards, but the deal is that amalgam comes in tapped so you can't draw asap when it enters the battlefield, then the next turn you want to attack usually.. So tapping to dredge some more and take damage doesn't sound all that amazing, but I may be wrong. If instead the zombie was a copy of putrid imp where you could discard cards at will then yes it would easily be a maindeckable 4-of in my list. Its actual discard ability feels too slow, if you pay B, wait a turn, then 1B you can discard a card. If it was B I would consider it, but 2 mana kills it for me personally. I think stitchwing skaab and haunted dead are similar effects that are simply better in our shell. We don't need them in our hand to get value and they include evasiveness.
4 prized amalgam
4 bloodghast
4 narcomoeba
1 haunted dead
Dredgers
4 golgari grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
2 darkblast
2 life from the loam
3 dakmor salvage
Enablers/Acceleration
4 insolent neonate
4 faithless looting
4 street wraith
3 burning inquiry
3 conflagrate
1 rally the peasants
Lands
2 copperline gorge
4 mana confluence
4 gemstone mine
2 city of brass
1 mountain
1 darkblast
4 lightning axe
3 natural state
3 gnaw to the bone
2 ancient grudge
1 vengeful pharaoh
1 forest
This is what I'm currently working with. Testing natural state in the place of nature's claim. It's okay, no noticeable differences. Yes, I keep a lot of one handers, but including dakmor salvage it's 16 lands and I can cast life from the loam off of one copperline gorge + dakmor salvage if I keep a one lander. Hasn't caused too many problems so far. Let me know what you all think.
Using this card makes no sense at all. Assuming you nail the delirium early, which is close to improbable, you can get a land (basic land type, not even a useful land), or a ...what... neonate? Pointless. You're playing 4 non-lands that get you a land for 1 green mana, just play 4 more lands.. It doesn't cost anything to play 4 more lands.
Irrelevant, dredge plays a bunch of cards that are useless when they hit the graveyard and we will never play them (in each game). The list includes tormenting voice, burning inquiry, streetwraith, lightning axe.. The list goes on.
"and the effect isn't really what we are going for"
This makes no sense; it's uncounterable discard, it kills x/2's, gains life and gets rid of potential main deck hate like anger of the gods.
Thoughtseize is widely played as a sideboard card against jund and jeskai decks that could board in rest in peace, gets rid of kalitas and scooze (two huge issues for us) for 1 mana. Again calling it a "dead card most of the time" due to it being uncastable once hitting the graveyard is entirely irrelevant.
EDIT: The real reason this card isn't good for us is because our gameplan has the misfortune of being non-interactive. You'd be cutting speed, like street wraiths, or burning inquiries to accommodate this card. It fights tormenting voice, which accelerates our game plan further. It isn't as good as conflagration in any way and fights to perform a similar action. It isn't a creature, which makes it worse to have post board with gnaw to the bone in the deck (small negative). Lastly the "sorcery or instant" clause is what kills the potential here. There is practically no reason to play this card over conflagration or tormenting voice and cutting speed for interaction is not worth it in game one.