This thread is for the compilation of all cards with a mana cost not seen on any other card. Just something I've been maintaining for a few years with the help of others over at the mtgcommander forums. Hope some of you find it interesting.
Commander+New Phyrexia Update: 16 new cards to add to the list from Phyrexian mana alone. I've grouped them with hybrid mana for the purpose of this thread. Geosurge removed Elemental Appeal from the list of monocolor. Surprisingly, Commander actually took off almost as many cards as it added. Guided Passage, Fervent Charge, Fungal Shambler, Lightning Angel all got removed thanks to new legendary wedge creatures. The only new addition in the form of "real" monocolor this update is Dread Cacodemon. With all the black fatties and mega-sorceries ever printed, I'm a little surprised there wasn't already one at this cost, but that's why I keep running the thread.
M12+Innistrad+Dark Ascension Update: The only change is the new addition of Archangel's Light. Maelstrom Wanderer has been spoiled at this point, but I'll wait to add it to the list until it's playable.
M13 Update: Diabolic Revelation added and that's it. I almost feel like I ought to have waited because the Return to Ravnica spoilers reveal huge updates to come.
I have a Creeping Tar Pit which is currently an Elemental and I use Sakashima's Student to clone it. I know the Student will enter as a non-animated Tar Pit, but when I animate it later will it be a Ninja Elemental? Or just an Elemental?
This is the only relevant rule I could find:
Quote from "Comp Rules" »
205.3d An object can't gain a subtype that doesn't correspond to one of that object's types.
But it doesn't say the object can't have the subtype. Only that it can't gain it.
So, not only is mtgcommander.net forum down right now, but so is heroesofmightandmagic.com and heroescommunity forum. What good is the internet anymore?
Ok, I was just worried that it was just me. I've become a recluse on there because it's the same three thread every day, but I still like to lurk there. I really wish they had a developed Off-Topic thread like here
How do I know whether something is an alternate cost? I'm still casting the spell for its mana cost, that cost is just modified by a subtraction, much like Stone Calendar. Offering is also phrased differently from the comp rules "usual" way of phrasing alternative costs.
Quote from "Comp Rules" »
117.9. Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.
In the section for 702 there are many keywords explicitly stated to be alternate costs: flashback, madness, morph, suspend, evoke, rebound, etc. But in the rules for offering, nothing.
702.46a Offering is a static ability of a card that functions in any zone from which the card can be cast. "[Subtype] offering" means "You may cast this card any time you could cast an instant by sacrificing a [subtype] permanent. If you do, the total cost to cast this card is reduced by the sacrificed permanent's mana cost."
As I understand it, Angel of Jubilationdoes prevent players from casting Force of Will or Dark Triumph for their alternate costs or paying life for Phyrexian Metamorph. The only reason I think this might be different is that offering is not an alternate cost, but then again, Angel doesn't say anything about costs.
Half the cards I mentioned remove a target card at instant speed and draw a card for 1 (after you pay the initial 1). They do what Cremate does in any color and they have that tap ability that can take out cards with surprising efficiency.
The advantage that Cremate has over the others is that it's hidden, which is huge. I don't run it myself, but other effects like Ravenous Trap and Faerie Macabre are some of my most used staples.
Nitpick: this is only possible through some additional interactions, such as Humility/Mirrorweave or Stonehewer Giant. Archangel has shroud and the equip ability targets.
I agree with what you're saying. In fact, I would say not only is it not possible to always have the fastest, most robust gameplan, but that I don't want to even go down that road. If your only solution to try to beat your opponents is to win even faster than they do, you're not playing an interactive game. You're just goldfishing together. That kind of growth seems likely to lead to hyper-competitive combo decks being the only viable deck in your meta, which sounds awful to me.
Can't remember where I read it, but I'm positive that it still counts as the Commander. You designate a card as your Commander at thr start of the game and it cannot lose that status over the course of the game. No matter whether it's in your hand, in your library, exiled, face down, etc, it's still your commander.
This is correct. I know I could find verification on the official Commander forums, but they're down right now.
This is also (mostly) correct. It's a layers thing:
Quote from "Comp Rules" »
all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, "Copying Objects."
Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects."
Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied. Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied.
Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
Within layers 1-6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)
Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3. Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.
Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."
Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.
Because "indestructible" is not an ability granted to the creature, it is not removed by Humility. So the first thing to happen is the creature loses all its abilities, then it becomes a 1/1, then Eldrazi Monument gives it another +1/+1 making it 2/2 and still indestructible.
The only thing that timestamp affects is whether it has flying or not, because the granting of the ability and the removal of the ability happen in the same layer (Layer 6). So if Humility entered the battlefield first, they would lose all abilities first and then end up with flying. If Eldrazi Monument entered the battlefield first, they would be given flying first and then end up without it.
Buried Memories2(U/R)(U/R)
Instant (R)
An opponent puts the instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard into two piles. Put one of those piles into your hand and exile the other. Exile Buried Memories.
My biggest problem with Cremate is that it's not committed. If you're going for instant speed surprise graveyard hate, Coffin Purge "replaces itself" with a second use of itself, and Ravenous Trap has a more powerful effect (which can also get around Ground Seal).
If you don't want good graveyard hate as much as you want a card which can effectively cycle when it's not really useful, then Cremate is a good choice, but in my experience graveyard hate is useful (and often crucial) in 90% of all games. I wouldn't cycle it because I know it would probably mean losing to a graveyard combo just a few turns later.
https://deckstats.net/decks/54758/550571-all-cards-with-unique-mana-cos/en
Dark Salvation
Flash of Insight
Temper
Quarantine Field
Stroke of Genius
Tribal Unity
Dominate
Goblin Offensive
Entreat the Angels
White Sun's Zenith
Riptide Replicator
Mind Warp
Decree of Justice
Cryptic Command
Fangren Firstborn
Dawn Elemental
Empty the Pits
Invoke Prejudice
Dregs of Sorrow
Diabolic Revelation
Rushwood Elemental
Mind Over Matter
Primalcrux
Craw Giant
Flame Wave
Archangel's Light
Bearer of the Heavens
Khalni Hydra
Sibsig Muckdraggers
Leviathan
Greater Gargadon
Primal Surge
Storm Herd
Dread Cacodemon
Krosan Cloudscraper
Myojin of Infinite Rage
Soulscour
Primeval Protector
Hypnox
Worldspine Wurm
Enter the Infinite
Emrakul, the Promised End
Blinkmoth Infusion
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Draco
Punishment
Congregation at Dawn
Gaze of Granite
Glissa, the Traitor
Goblin Flectomancer
Invoke the Firemind
Lavalanche
Rakdos Augermage
Souls of the Faultless
Sphinx's Revelation
Undermine
Villainous Wealth
Voidslime
Wargate
Altered Ego
Reap Intellect
Clutch of the Undercity
Mystic Snake
Omnibian
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Siege Rhino
Sigil Captain
Suffocating Blast
Ayesha Tanaka
Brightflame
Debt to the Deathless
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Plasm Capture
Punish Ignorance
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Tuknir Deathlock
Anthem of Rakdos
Culling Sun
Grave-Shell Scarab
Mystic Genesis
Swift Silence
Tor Wauki
Isperia the Inscrutable
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Defiler of Souls
Firemane Angel
Hunding Gjornersen
Jerrard of the Closed Fist
Lord Magnus
Marhault Elsdragon
Ramirez DePietro
Armada Wurm
Aurelia, the Warleader
Dakkon Blackblade
Dragon Broodmother
Identity Crisis
Isperia, Supreme Judge
Ramses Overdark
Karona, False God
Krond the Dawn-Clad
Boros Battleshaper
Garruk, Apex Predator
Gruul Ragebeast
Simic Sky Swallower
Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
Barktooth Warbeard
Duneblast
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Hazezon Tamar
Jedit Ojanen
Skarrgan Skybreaker
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Angel of Despair
Bladewing the Risen
Gosta Dirk
Brilliant Ultimatum
Clarion Ultimatum
Cruel Ultimatum
Titanic Ultimatum
Violent Ultimatum
Death Mutation
Guardian of Vitu-Ghazi
Treacherous Terrain
Vampiric Dragon
Filigree Angel
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Maelstrom Wanderer
Mindleech Mass
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Yavimaya's Embrace
Ashen Rider
Axelrod Gunnarson
Borborygmos Enraged
Chorus of the Conclave
Empyrial Archangel
Godsire
Hellkite Overlord
Razia, Boros Archangel
Sisters of Stone Death
Sphinx Sovereign
Arcades Sabboth
Chromium
Nicol Bolas
Palladia-Mors
Vaevictis Asmadi
Progenitus
Iname as One
Autochthon Wurm
Dawnglow Infusion
Gut Shot
Marrow Shards
Postmortem Lunge
Surgical Extraction
Vault Skirge
Woodlurker Mimic
Biomass Mutation
Golgari Guildmage
Orzhov Guildmage
Simic Guildmage
Grixis Grimblade
Everlasting Torment
Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
Matter Reshaper
Porcelain Legionnaire
Spined Thopter
Dismember
Kitchen Finks
Boggart Ram-Gang
Crag Puca
Immortal Servitude
Plumeveil
Stalker Hag
Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
Wistful Selkie
Belligerent Hatchling
Birthing Pod
Ruthless Invasion
Safehold Duo
Thought-Knot Seer
Voracious Hatchling
Harvest Gwyllion
Noggle Bridgebreaker
Wanderbrine Rootcutters
Arsenal Thresher
Marisi's Twinclaws
Messenger Falcons
Sewn-Eye Drake
Ashenmoor Liege
Creakwood Liege
Glen Elendra Liege
Thistledown Liege
Wilt-Leaf Liege
Memory Plunder
Gift of the Deity
Glamer Spinners
Pith Driller
Act of Aggression
Dire Undercurrents
Evershrike
Norn's Annex
Old Ghastbark
Waves of Aggression
Giant Ambush Beetle
Slave of Bolas
Balefire Liege
Deathbringer Liege
Murkfiend Liege
Worm Harvest
Deity of Scars
Demigod of Revenge
Deus of Calamity
Divinity of Pride
Dominus of Fealty
Ghastlord of Fugue
Godhead of Awe
Nobilis of War
Overbeing of Myth
Oversoul of Dusk
Advice from the Fae
Beseech the Queen
Flame Javelin
Spectral Procession
Tower Above
Endbringer
Grief Tyrant
Valleymaker
Moltensteel Dragon
Nucklavee
Thoughtweft Gambit
Thundering Tanadon
Dovescape
Gleancrawler
Fable of Wolf and Owl
Mindwrack Liege
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Pyrrhic Revival
Deceiver of Form
Biomantic Mastery
Debtors' Knell
Doomgape
Loamdragger Giant
Din of the Fireherd
Worldpurge
Reaper King
Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Mirrodin Besieged Update: Same total number of cards as before. It that Betrays came off the list as it now shares with Blightsteel Colossus, and White Sun's Zenith took its place.
Commander+New Phyrexia Update: 16 new cards to add to the list from Phyrexian mana alone. I've grouped them with hybrid mana for the purpose of this thread. Geosurge removed Elemental Appeal from the list of monocolor. Surprisingly, Commander actually took off almost as many cards as it added. Guided Passage, Fervent Charge, Fungal Shambler, Lightning Angel all got removed thanks to new legendary wedge creatures. The only new addition in the form of "real" monocolor this update is Dread Cacodemon. With all the black fatties and mega-sorceries ever printed, I'm a little surprised there wasn't already one at this cost, but that's why I keep running the thread.
M12+Innistrad+Dark Ascension Update: The only change is the new addition of Archangel's Light. Maelstrom Wanderer has been spoiled at this point, but I'll wait to add it to the list until it's playable.
Avacyn Restored+Planechase 2012 Update: -Reiver Demon, -Phytohydra, -Firestorm Hellkite, +Bruna, Light of Alabaster, +Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, +Maelstrom Wanderer, +Krond the Dawn-Clad, +Primal Surge, +Entreat the Angels
M13 Update: Diabolic Revelation added and that's it. I almost feel like I ought to have waited because the Return to Ravnica spoilers reveal huge updates to come.
Return to Ravnica Update: 1 new monocolored added, 4 new multicolor added, 1 new hybrid added. The biggest change this time around was all the cards taken off (7 multicolor and 8 hybrid). I'll list them here for record: -Enchanted Evening, -Torsten Von Ursus, -Double Negative, -Fulminator Mage, -Odious Trow, -Cloven Casting, -Izzet Guildmage, -Sapling of Colfenor, -Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, -Zealous Guardian, -Rakdos Guildmage, -Kaervek's Purge, -Morbid Bloom, -Azorius Ploy, -Augury Adept
Gatecrash update: -Slippery Bogle, -Gravelgill Axeshark, -Cemetery Puca, -Necromancer's Covenant, -Wasp Lancer, -Experiment Kraj, -Boartusk Liege, -Flame-Kin Zealot. A few came off, a few were added. Most of the numbers stayed about the same.
Dragon's Maze update: -Absorb, -Mycoid Shepherd. 7 new additions, all in traditional multicolor.
Theros+Born of the Gods update: +Astral Cornucopia, +Ashen Rider. No eliminations.
Journey Into Nyx+M15+Khans of Tarkir update: -Vitalizing Wind, -Curse of the Cabal, -Borborygmos, -Ghave, Guru of Spores, -Riku of Two Reflections, -Epic Experiment, -Progenitor Mimic, -The Mimeoplasm, -Vorosh, the Hunter, -Teneb, the Harvester, -Numot, the Devastator, -Oros, the Avenger, -Intet, the Dreamer, +Bearer of the Heavens, +Empty the Pits, +Duneblast, +Garruk, Apex Predator, +Villainous Wealth, +Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, +Siege Rhino
Fate Reforged+Dragons of Tarkir+Origins update: -Angel of Jubilation, -Polar Kraken, +Sibsig Muckdraggers
Batttle for Zendikar+Commander 2015+Oath of the Gatewatch+Shadows Over Innistrad+Eldritch Moon update: -Nimbus Swimmer, -Unwilling Recruit, +Dark Salvation, +Quarantine Field, +Matter Reshaper, +Thought-Knot Seer, +Altered Ego, +Endbringer, +Deceiver of Form, +Kozilek, the Great Distortion, +Emrakul, the Promised End
Kaladesh + Commander 2016 Update: -Gelatinous Genesis, -Glint-Eye Nephilim, -Ink-Treader Nephilim, -Dune-Brood Nephilim, -Witch-Maw Nephilim, -Yore-Tiller Nephilim, +Primeval Protector, +Treacherous Terrain
Actually, that works the opposite way:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7389656&postcount=8
So it looks like it would be a Ninja.
This is the only relevant rule I could find:
But it doesn't say the object can't have the subtype. Only that it can't gain it.
Try doing the Realms variant (also called Big Box or Commie Box).
What, are we afraid to speak this person's name now? Voldemort? Beetlejuice? Candlejack? Bunch of superstitio
How do I know whether something is an alternate cost? I'm still casting the spell for its mana cost, that cost is just modified by a subtraction, much like Stone Calendar. Offering is also phrased differently from the comp rules "usual" way of phrasing alternative costs.
In the section for 702 there are many keywords explicitly stated to be alternate costs: flashback, madness, morph, suspend, evoke, rebound, etc. But in the rules for offering, nothing.
Here are the only relevant rules for offering:
As I understand it, Angel of Jubilation does prevent players from casting Force of Will or Dark Triumph for their alternate costs or paying life for Phyrexian Metamorph. The only reason I think this might be different is that offering is not an alternate cost, but then again, Angel doesn't say anything about costs.
The advantage that Cremate has over the others is that it's hidden, which is huge. I don't run it myself, but other effects like Ravenous Trap and Faerie Macabre are some of my most used staples.
Nitpick: this is only possible through some additional interactions, such as Humility/Mirrorweave or Stonehewer Giant. Archangel has shroud and the equip ability targets.
I agree with what you're saying. In fact, I would say not only is it not possible to always have the fastest, most robust gameplan, but that I don't want to even go down that road. If your only solution to try to beat your opponents is to win even faster than they do, you're not playing an interactive game. You're just goldfishing together. That kind of growth seems likely to lead to hyper-competitive combo decks being the only viable deck in your meta, which sounds awful to me.
Oh, what? They've been back for a few days and I didn't even know it. Here's the link to said verification:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=130139#p130139
and
http://forum.mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11956
This is correct. I know I could find verification on the official Commander forums, but they're down right now.
This is also (mostly) correct. It's a layers thing:
Because "indestructible" is not an ability granted to the creature, it is not removed by Humility. So the first thing to happen is the creature loses all its abilities, then it becomes a 1/1, then Eldrazi Monument gives it another +1/+1 making it 2/2 and still indestructible.
The only thing that timestamp affects is whether it has flying or not, because the granting of the ability and the removal of the ability happen in the same layer (Layer 6). So if Humility entered the battlefield first, they would lose all abilities first and then end up with flying. If Eldrazi Monument entered the battlefield first, they would be given flying first and then end up without it.
Instant (R)
An opponent puts the instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard into two piles. Put one of those piles into your hand and exile the other. Exile Buried Memories.
It'll also be funny using this when an opponent has Dread, or when a medium sized swarm tries to take the win with Triumph of the Hordes.
If you don't want good graveyard hate as much as you want a card which can effectively cycle when it's not really useful, then Cremate is a good choice, but in my experience graveyard hate is useful (and often crucial) in 90% of all games. I wouldn't cycle it because I know it would probably mean losing to a graveyard combo just a few turns later.