Im so happy, now i have someone to discuss the deck again, i was almost giving up by the time past, but dont find no one place with new information for actual days.
ill make a long post, during the day (when i post it will not even seem during half day hahah), and i hope (i`m sorry for this) response about old question i have doubt ok ?!
first of all:
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.
i`m sorry if appears it, but i have consider Various and Ulka list for sure to base my, because i dont fell consistence in some aspect i cant recognize, i`n relative new player, and had never invest in a deck, and i want lost my fear and start to play FNM after make it consistence.
the cards i mention before is only about quality to put all together and think (i like to create and not just copy a list), despite you`re eperiente, neverknow if missed some point any time hehe
and i love some combos.
lets start:
@Ulka
When you post your list i observe you have no Treasure Mage as tutor and asked its worked well without it? for a posssible turn 3 Wurmcoil?
@VariousBoots
Massacre Wurm is a sweet card but I think it is too slow for this list (it is only good if we have Heartless Summoning) and it wipes our board too. In just a couple weeks we should be looking instead at Yahenni’s Expertise to wipe the board and drop a threat after. If you are still interested in a big Massacre Wurm type ability, check out Contagion Engine it’s actually pretty easy for us to get online especially if you are playing a controlish build and works great with Master Transmuter if you are still on that plan.
Perilous Myr seems to have shown up a lot on here lately. I am pretty much always thinking about playing two of them in my list but I usually don’t end up pulling the trigger on that. In the next couple weeks I’ll be thinking a lot about this vs Walking Ballista in our list. A lot of cool ideas with that one.
I do some tests with the wurm, and i like and i dislike (in any of firts game, i take care about 6 tokens elemental from Merfolk deck) of course Ensnaring Bridge do all the work here, 1 attack and i dead. Ensnaring Bridge is a star all game he can be droped, seriously. Walking Ballista looks promising.
But after this, dont have chance to use again and, blah, i just want more tutorable cards, i have a Contagion Engine and after you say this, ill back to deck. Master Transmuter is never out my plan, i just love her hahah big tricks with it. This is the first thing i missed was removal, and i consider a combination of Spine of ish Sah and Phyrexia's core to save some Master Tap. I consider Duplicant in my build for exile with master can maximize the potential.
I’d love to hear how the control build test has been going. About a year ago I tried out a control build that played Lilianna of the Veil, Mana Leak, some discard spells, and more kill spells. It worked decently well and I won a lot of matches with it but it was really awkward. The deck felt pulled in too many directions. I found that I was basically time walking myself by trying to hold up mana for counter spells instead of playing things like Heartless Summoning or other engine pieces. So if you find a good way to do it, I’m all ears.
Also, this is probably obvious because I’m responding to an older post, but Fatal Push is definitely an upgraded Tragic Slip (except against Tron, but that’s a whole different story)
I play this control list a weekend, and i felt like you, really awkward, like what i do now try to accel my game or counter omg, i guess it 2 so different playstyle, maybe hard to walk together. My primary ideia wiht it was play with Shimmer Myr and if the opponent dont do worrisome spells, just toss ur artifacts. And the power of Torrential Gearhulk is too funny, but the build not looks consistence.
I’m glad you took the leap. It’s a great feeling to see other people fall in love with Lodeston Golem the way I did. Like everyone else, I was skeptical at first but since I took the plunge, it has won me more games than any other card.
Don’t worry about getting cards like Tezzeret stuck in your hand. As long as you have multiple golems out you should be winning the game. And the minute they spend all of their resources removing your creatures, you get to slam a planeswalker down in their face and take over the game again.
i always like Lodeston Golem, when i tyr a build whit Kuldhota Forgemaster i used, but 2 copies only, and felt the power with 2 hahah but Ethersown Canonist always make great job, especially with skite, but i open my worlds for know because without this, the W of deck was so poor.
I think you’ll find if you look at the sideboards of the decklists Ulka and I have posted that we always play at least 1 Pithing Needle in our sideboards alongside Trinket Mage
I miss so much draws and card advantage, whats is mor compensatory Serum Vision or Lich combo ? the Greveas i guess cant find slot anyway, the deck look potential to play with grave too with rescue plan.
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
----
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
--
Some post above, when you talk about padeem, a was curios, becase the worst interaction with skite and if you moved it to SB? whats happened with the test ?
--
About new cards:
Fatal Push OMG no words Merchant's Dockhand you really guess this can best advantage ? if we tap all many artifact, and its all ur creatures, we dont have attack / block maybe ? in this case i like Reverse Engineer and maybe consider Tezzeret the Seeker (reverser the tap, can tutor superior, bridge, shackles or some keys). Walking Ballista can be a nice removal little boring creatures
i think about Scrap Trawler too, can rescue something ... think about this turn 3 kill Scrap Trawler + Heartless Summoning and Perilous Myr funny.
and talk about tezz, in a second look, the new tezz have a nice removal too.
--
if interest, this is my list for now (if want to help, appreciate it
i guess Serum or maybe a Sleight of Hand is very important to find pieces early, but dont know where, or i need to lost de lich combo.
Glad if i`n not to talk alone again my ideas (if it is not good enough, you can say me to change the focus)
seeya
EDIT:
Have you consider Pithing Needle as side? is nice againt all matchs:
infetc: Blinkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven
Tron: Karn, Ugin, oblivion
Burn: Some feths
Viscera Seer and much mor
the list idea:
Take control of board, dont lose ur enchant, deal with big threads (Perilous myr make a nice "combo" with tragic, make the -13 easy), and like so much how lich make plays
Superion can take control of aggros nice block on turn 2
Torrential Gearhulk + Master Transmuter can double the mount of controls
This is the first try, ideas of thing can improve ? more counter or more removals, in in doubt
EDIT:
looking for my old cards, i find something nice, maybe Scuttling Doom Engine + Disciple of Bolas
can do a double damage, gain life much draw, with lich can return
Hello @Sting, nice too see more people to discuss ideias for heartless (or variations), so if your RB version, is the third i see in here. i`n using a esper variation with Master Transmuter with ETB creatures
Massacre Wurm is really hard because of the BBB so i would run only 1 sb if really necessary.
Agree the BBB maybe a problem, maybe, because this i`ll remake my mana base add lands like Isolated Chapel, godless shrine to adjust the demand. Remember this is a primary test, because with phyrexian metamorph + Master Transmuter we can do a relly MASSACRE (new pun). here, have much bants, companys etc.
Bloodgift Demon is a good card to me as a psuedo phyrexian arena on wings.
Sometimes lowering the stats to 4/3 makes him really easy to kill (lightning bolt) but if it survives can become really good
the demon ill test to, because i have the same thought then you. (psuedo phyrexian arena).
Another idea, if heartless summoning is really useful why run only 3?
With 4 heartless summoning we have something like 40% of find it in our opening hand +4% for each card drawn or scry.
I know, multiple heartless summoning are useless but we can scry down those extra copies or discard them to liliana of the veil or use them as fodder for other cards (like Thirst for Knowledge for ex.)
idk, but talking about my build, 3 heartless is not low probability to draw in open hand and draw (Serum Visions is there for us) liliana of the veil it's already gone a possibility for me, but i dont say here, but dont know, ur Artifact base is better then other and Tezz filter is nice for us. maybe talk bull***** but..
I am trying Padeem, Consul of Innovation this week as a 2 of for a bit of card advantage as we only lose the advantage to Tron and they don't get the advantage. Plus it gives us more resilience against targeted removal.
Do you belive i was thinking in Padeem (in my other thread about master i talk about her) but her can make skite useless, till it add hexproof right?
Or you move skite from MB ?
I`ll remake my manabase and seriously try Massacre Wurm, lich .. and like your idea anda will test myr or cut fox maybe make a paper to test the demon, lets see
He is a very strong card and honestly I have debated on running him with the Myr regularly.
But besides that:
WE GOT A NEW TEZZY
+1 Create an artifact with T: sacrifice for 1 of any color of mana
-2 Target creature gets +x/-x until end of turn where x is number of artifacts you control
-7 you get an emblem with at beginning of combat target artifact becomes 5/5 creature
personaly i dont like this new tezz for ur build .. if you like, show me points pls ? i like more filter then one extra mana in a turn
i think in a potencial Havengul Lich and a Myr Retriever. Dont know in pratice, but it can buckup important things was countered, destroyed.
Other update i do, was trade Glist_nest for Serum visions, and with heratpain, i dont missed de crane
maybe, wiht the lich crane or even a Mulldrift can maximize more your effects
Impressions:
1) this build can make an aggro-control playstyle, i like it, can agrresive and defense, but is like an all-in deck.
But i missed some type of removes (Spine of ish Sah) even big, was so utility before) or insta like Path to Exile
Missed Platinum Angel Against a Kitchen Finks deck.
2) Master Transmuter rly make nice tricks here. Treasure Mage show me more efficient (in my build) then Glint-Nest (turn 4 master greveas colossus)
3) Freezing .. missed removes
i guess, we can consider the meta of the region we play .. i dont have infects to playtest against here by bow.
o just try 21 lands, and for now, this works well. Golem do not make muck effective play, losting by canonist. Maybe a Path to exile make best work to remove thread ? confused
I'm currently trying to have a better match-up against infect so more dismembers in the sideboard seems better than my Noxious Gearhulk plan as I found he is less useful than I had hoped.
No Treasure Mage here ? its works well without a tutor for big fatty ?
i`n suffering for aggro, how you deal aggro (elves, goblin) if have aggro in your meta, pls !
ill make a long post, during the day (when i post it will not even seem during half day hahah), and i hope (i`m sorry for this) response about old question i have doubt ok ?!
first of all:
i`m sorry if appears it, but i have consider Various and Ulka list for sure to base my, because i dont fell consistence in some aspect i cant recognize, i`n relative new player, and had never invest in a deck, and i want lost my fear and start to play FNM after make it consistence.
the cards i mention before is only about quality to put all together and think (i like to create and not just copy a list), despite you`re eperiente, neverknow if missed some point any time hehe
and i love some combos.
lets start:
@Ulka
When you post your list i observe you have no Treasure Mage as tutor and asked its worked well without it? for a posssible turn 3 Wurmcoil?
@VariousBoots
I do some tests with the wurm, and i like and i dislike (in any of firts game, i take care about 6 tokens elemental from Merfolk deck) of course Ensnaring Bridge do all the work here, 1 attack and i dead. Ensnaring Bridge is a star all game he can be droped, seriously. Walking Ballista looks promising.
But after this, dont have chance to use again and, blah, i just want more tutorable cards, i have a Contagion Engine and after you say this, ill back to deck. Master Transmuter is never out my plan, i just love her hahah big tricks with it. This is the first thing i missed was removal, and i consider a combination of Spine of ish Sah and Phyrexia's core to save some Master Tap. I consider Duplicant in my build for exile with master can maximize the potential.
I play this control list a weekend, and i felt like you, really awkward, like what i do now try to accel my game or counter omg, i guess it 2 so different playstyle, maybe hard to walk together. My primary ideia wiht it was play with Shimmer Myr and if the opponent dont do worrisome spells, just toss ur artifacts. And the power of Torrential Gearhulk is too funny, but the build not looks consistence.
i always like Lodeston Golem, when i tyr a build whit Kuldhota Forgemaster i used, but 2 copies only, and felt the power with 2 hahah but Ethersown Canonist always make great job, especially with skite, but i open my worlds for know because without this, the W of deck was so poor.
My bad, i dont saw, sry
-----
NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR ME
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master Transmuter
4 Myr Superion
2 Perilous Myr
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Academy Ruins
3 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
//Planes
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Graves
I miss so much draws and card advantage, whats is mor compensatory Serum Vision or Lich combo ? the Greveas i guess cant find slot anyway, the deck look potential to play with grave too with rescue plan.
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
----
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
--
Some post above, when you talk about padeem, a was curios, becase the worst interaction with skite and if you moved it to SB? whats happened with the test ?
--
About new cards:
Fatal Push OMG no words
Merchant's Dockhand you really guess this can best advantage ? if we tap all many artifact, and its all ur creatures, we dont have attack / block maybe ? in this case i like Reverse Engineer and maybe consider Tezzeret the Seeker (reverser the tap, can tutor superior, bridge, shackles or some keys).
Walking Ballista can be a nice removal little boring creatures
i think about Scrap Trawler too, can rescue something ... think about this turn 3 kill Scrap Trawler + Heartless Summoning and Perilous Myr funny.
and talk about tezz, in a second look, the new tezz have a nice removal too.
--
if interest, this is my list for now (if want to help, appreciate it
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master Transmuter
4 Myr Superion
2 Perilous Myr
1 Academy Ruins
3 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
//Planes
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Graves
i guess Serum or maybe a Sleight of Hand is very important to find pieces early, but dont know where, or i need to lost de lich combo.
Glad if i`n not to talk alone again my ideas (if it is not good enough, you can say me to change the focus)
seeya
EDIT:
Have you consider Pithing Needle as side? is nice againt all matchs:
infetc: Blinkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven
Tron: Karn, Ugin, oblivion
Burn: Some feths
Viscera Seer and much mor
i decide to try something new, and make a list Heartless control
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
3 Master Transmuter
2 Spellskite
1 Perilous Myr
1 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Treasure Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Myr Superion
4 Heartless Summoning
1 Dismember
2 Dispel
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
3 Tragic Slip
the list idea:
Take control of board, dont lose ur enchant, deal with big threads (Perilous myr make a nice "combo" with tragic, make the -13 easy), and like so much how lich make plays
Superion can take control of aggros nice block on turn 2
Torrential Gearhulk + Master Transmuter can double the mount of controls
This is the first try, ideas of thing can improve ? more counter or more removals, in in doubt
Mentions:
Cards i dont have in hands but i want to try:
Solemn Simulacrum
Thassa, God of the Sea (i like the scry and can do a fast devotion) and can make a wincon.
Ratchet Bomb (a BW tokens locked me)
its all for now, what do you think guys!
thanks
EDIT:
looking for my old cards, i find something nice, maybe
Scuttling Doom Engine + Disciple of Bolas
can do a double damage, gain life much draw, with lich can return
Agree the BBB maybe a problem, maybe, because this i`ll remake my mana base add lands like Isolated Chapel, godless shrine to adjust the demand. Remember this is a primary test, because with phyrexian metamorph + Master Transmuter we can do a relly MASSACRE (new pun). here, have much bants, companys etc.
the demon ill test to, because i have the same thought then you. (psuedo phyrexian arena).
i dont consider no Eldrazi, because we need to add some Eldrazi Temple maybe, by fact Grand Architect cant ramp eldrazis
yes, i think about Darkslick Shores, but its not tutorable by Polluted Delta, and Watery Grave and Sunken Hollow are. In a build with 3 Colors, its a thing to consider (this is my thougt)
idk, but talking about my build, 3 heartless is not low probability to draw in open hand and draw (Serum Visions is there for us)
liliana of the veil it's already gone a possibility for me, but i dont say here, but dont know, ur Artifact base is better then other and Tezz filter is nice for us. maybe talk bull***** but..
wait you for more ideas!!
Do you belive i was thinking in Padeem (in my other thread about master i talk about her) but her can make skite useless, till it add hexproof right?
Or you move skite from MB ?
I`ll remake my manabase and seriously try Massacre Wurm, lich .. and like your idea anda will test myr or cut fox maybe make a paper to test the demon, lets see
can Bloodgift Demon be a good adition for card advantage in this build ?
Not to slow for a 4/3 flier and a card, guess ...
how much around him, what exemple of build: Perilous Myr Solemn Simulacrum, things like this ?
ok, tks you.
i find this link: http://pksongs.site/music/FNM Werewolves vs Heartless Architect 05/04 Round....html
have some FNM ... maybe i any games, we can see something interesting. i just see only 1 os those, and i see a Massacre Wurm ... massacring (pun).
Perilous Myr can help with infect maybe ?
second thing, for know, we`re out of option i guess, surrounding all og those, i hope Aether Revolts can bring us nice options.
I invite you for a esper build and tell us results ^^
you pay 1, and you are able to cast it, dos not matter the methoed ?
if i pay this i can play the card by the master transmuter?
the most reason i like for suporte and use mor us tutor, bring back skites, superior os anything else
personaly i dont like this new tezz for ur build .. if you like, show me points pls ? i like more filter then one extra mana in a turn
i think in a potencial Havengul Lich and a Myr Retriever. Dont know in pratice, but it can buckup important things was countered, destroyed.
Other update i do, was trade Glist_nest for Serum visions, and with heratpain, i dont missed de crane
maybe, wiht the lich crane or even a Mulldrift can maximize more your effects
Havengul Lich
can do something for us ? block, retunr tutors, skite or some key to the board. make sense do a test !?
Personaly i guess this interesting
this is the build i started:
4x Lightning Greaves
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Spellskite
Engine
4x Grand Architect
4x Master Transmuter
3x Heartless Summoning
3x Treasure Mage
3x Serum Visions
2x Lodestone Golem
4x Myr Superior
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Blightteel Colossus
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Sharuum the Hegemon
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Impressions:
1) this build can make an aggro-control playstyle, i like it, can agrresive and defense, but is like an all-in deck.
But i missed some type of removes (Spine of ish Sah) even big, was so utility before) or insta like Path to Exile
Missed Platinum Angel Against a Kitchen Finks deck.
2) Master Transmuter rly make nice tricks here. Treasure Mage show me more efficient (in my build) then Glint-Nest (turn 4 master greveas colossus)
3) Freezing .. missed removes
i guess, we can consider the meta of the region we play .. i dont have infects to playtest against here by bow.
UPDATE 2: Ethersworn Canonist + Spellskite do a magnifique job togheter.
o just try 21 lands, and for now, this works well. Golem do not make muck effective play, losting by canonist. Maybe a Path to exile make best work to remove thread ? confused
No Treasure Mage here ? its works well without a tutor for big fatty ?