I'd let whomever is testing the card plan out their own mana base, for sure. I imagine we could line up a dozen U Tron decks and not get exactly the same lands in any of them, but I understand your point!
That's a good observation about the Chalice, that it counters as it's being cast, not while it's on the stack. I was more excited about the idea of generating the same type of value from our non-instant spells as our instant ones. I find myself holding up mana a lot for reactive answers, but being able to threaten something unstoppable at the same time sounds like an idea worth exploring!
Hello!
I've only recently picked up Mono U Tron, but I've been a fan of the deck a long time.
I was looking through the recent wave of spoilers and came across this:
Emergence Zone
Land
T: Add (c).
1, T, Sacrifice Emergence Zone: You may cast spells this turn as thought they had flash.
This seems like a pretty flexible tool in the tool box. Being able to flash in Chalice in response to something, or dropping Mindslaver eot sounds like good clean fun. I'm certainly going to be testing one when it arrives
R1 Opp is on Mono-Red good stuff. Lots of burn + swiftspear and things like Shard Volley to try and be as quick as possible.
G1 I got pounded on pretty fast with Goblin Guides and Monastery Swiftspears. I kept a pretty medium mulligan to 6 that didn't have any ramp or a board wipe. G2 I get a lucky top deck of Gifts Ungiven on another medium mulligan, and reanimate Iona, Shield of Emeria naming red. His suspended Rift Bolt fizzled when it tried to get cast on his upkeep to burn me for the last points, and scooped when he realised that wouldn't work. G3 was much less exciting, I made a big misplay and didn't cast the Leyline of Sanctity that I drew the turn before I died to a Lightning Bolt and three Shard Volley.
0-1
R2 Opp is on Devoted Company, a pretty stock list with the infinite green mana combo and Shalai, Voice of Plenty for protection.
G1 we both durdle and do what control mirrors do until he eventually gets down Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Jace, The Mindsculptor and I don't care about the game anymore. G2 goes a little smoother with me being able to dig a little faster and hard cast Leyline of Sanctity and eventually get to tap 15 for Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He couldn't dig for a Terminus, and scooped. G3 I get a Thought-Knot Seer out T3 and exile the only castable card in his hand. I beat face while he tries to recover and eventually concedes.
2-1
R4 Opp thought there were only 3 rounds and left before the matches started. I ended up with a 3-1 record, good for 4th place after breakers.
Some notes about the deck as I have it:
- I liked the 2 Negate in the main, but I think I also got really lucky running into decks that wanted to mostly cast non-creature spells, or had trouble putting the right pieces of creature combos together. There are a lot of powerful creature-based decks, and I think I mis-built there. I'm going to replace one, along with the Spell Snare, which felt actively bad the more I drew it in games. I want to experiment with a single Cyclonic Rift, and will think on what else to try.
-Leyline of Sanctity is pretty medium when it's not in your opening hand, but I never didn't have the mana to cast it when I drew it, along with doing something else. I think we're one of the few decks that can afford the opportunity cost of playing a 4-drop enchantment post board and have it still affect the game. I certainly don't recommend you plan your deck around casting it, but it is something to keep in mind.
- I never once thought Rule of Law was a card worth bringing in at this event. If you have a lot of storm or combo in your meta, I see the appeal, but I think I'm going to be looking for something different there as well.
-Thought-knot Seer is so good in Control matchups. We're often faster with ramp, and they often can't easily deal with 4/4 attackers postboard. I think it's a very good card that our deck plays with very well.
@StayHappyThere , in general, I don't think so. It's a combo that requires a lot of set up and we often can't run multiple copies of the combo pieces to make it as consistent as it has been. Ii think in general, modern has gotten so fast that a hard lock on turn 5 or 6 isn't what it once was. Even two-card combos like thopter/sword are falling out of favour for things like Secure the Wastes.
What I'm always wondering about, and the part of magic that I have the most trouble with, is sideboard slots. What are people running in their sideboards that are more local meta calls, rather than the things we see show up in every list. For example, the last LGS I played, there was some lantern and grixis, so I ended up relying more on things like Leyline of Sanctity. What are some fun-of or hidden tech cards that you use in your local stores?
Dassul, I can only speak for myself and my own deck, but I can try and answer some of what you bring up in your post above.
1: Right now, I run two signets and one talisman, and those, in addition to the 3 maps, the Engineered Explosives, and the 3-4 other artifacts that serve as utility cards or win conditions, I find I never really have an issue with TfK discards. I think bulking up on extra artifacts just for the sake of having extra artifacts to discard isn't the best use of our space, and I would rather have those extra 2-3 spots taken up with counter magic or something like Detention Sphere or Blessed Alliance to give the deck extra game against weaker matchups game 1.
2. I think you're totally right about main-deck Thought-knot Seer. I was trying them in my deck and felt they could be better replaced with something that fits more with our main-deck plan. Like I wrote above, other people's lists might have different set ups than my own that can optimise TkS in the main, but for myself, I'm going to keep exploring different options.
3. I only run two Colonnades in my deck, and only because I happened to buy two before they went crazy sky high in price. Generally speaking, I don't like enter tapped lands as a rule, but my philosophy with this deck is to be as flexible and as full of answers as possible at all times. Being able to answer whatever deck we're paired against with a variety of answers is best, and if they stone rain or field of ruin a colonnade instead of a tron piece, that's fine with me. I think, like you mentioned, it's meta dependent and if you're finding so much land destruction going on, then I could 100% see using a Temple as a way to get value off a land drop if it might get blasted later on.
Like I said, this is all based on my own experiences with the deck, and I'm always shifting cards in and out to see what sticks and what doesn't. I would interested in seeing your list and what experiences you've had with the deck, especially since you're coming back to it after some time away.
Moved back to Canada this week, I'm going to try the deck tomorrow at the LGS of the town my parents live in. I'm pretty happy with the mainboard right now, using two Thought-Knot Seer as an earlier beater as well as discard. The sideboard is always the part I stress out the most about. Every time I look at it, I think there must be something better than Pithing Needle, but anything else I think of, it affects the game in lot of similar ways.
I was thinking of experimenting with adding some number of Damping Sphere but because this is an LGS I have never been to before, I'm wondering if I should even change anything, and just see how I roll with the 75 as is. If anyone has any advice or tips, I'm always all ears!
Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
Fresh off the Dominaria release notes spoiled earlier, this first ability seems like a pretty big hose to everything we're trying to do, and the second clause doesn't do us any favours either. Maybe time to start maindecking Ceremonious Rejection in place of a Remand?
Thanks for the response! I'm going to try and look for one as soon as I can, I feel like I pulled one in a draft so many moons ago, but traded or gave it away as so much draft chaff. I'll also start taking a look at the U/W control boards and chats, as they seem to have a similar goal as us in terms of "control the board and then have a big finish", but go about about it in a different way. Thanks again!
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
O-stone and EE are amazing. My meta around here is is a lot of small creatures (affinity or elves for example), or otherwise difficult to remove permanents like Bogles, and having a couple of threatening answers besides the sweepers has never felt wrong to me.
I used to run Seachrome Coast as well, which I switched out for the Godless Shrine, for exactly the same reason I only run two Colonnades. Generally, I'm way more comfortable being 2 life down with an untapped land, than ripping an "enters tapped" land right when I don't need it. I've had a lot of games that came down to me drawing *any* untapped land to get me back in, and not getting there. It may only be anecdotal evidence, but I find that Godless gives me a lot more flexibility in what I want to be doing with the deck.
This is the deck as it stands right now. Some of the sideboard floats in and out depending on what I think I'm going up against. I have a real hard time dealing with enter-tapped lands, so I only run 2 Celestial Colonnade, and if there was anything better available, I would probably opt for that. A one-of Batterskull or Wurmcoil Engine sometimes makes its way in like I wrote above, but right now, it's meant to be a little more control focused.
Right now I'm the inverse of Darksteel, with 3 Condescend and 2 Remand. I used to run 2 and 2, and have a 1-of Batterskull in the main to establish a potentially early threat on the board, but my area is pretty heavy with both spot removal and combo decks, so having more answers to keeping my big stuff around has been useful.
I've really enjoyed catching up on this thread and the discussion about U/R Storm. I wish I had more practical tournament experience with the deck, I work almost every Friday evening, and there isn't a strong MTG presence at my LGS that isn't FNM. The last time I played was pre-Ixalan, and I played Grixis Death Shadow, an Elves brew, and Living End. I had never played against GDS before, and I knew I was playing sloppy in the match, walking into Stubborn Denials etc. It doesn't seem like that hard a matchup for us, I was just playing against the clock instead of playing smart.
I'm planning on going back this week, and I fully anticipate playing against GDS again. Is there anything new that came out in Ixalan that they're using we should watch out for? How much of a problem does this new 5-colour human deck seem to be?
I'll see if I can put together a useful tournament report after this Friday, and try and give some insight to what I face off against!
Long time Nekusar player, but the first time finding this board.
I was thinking about how to include The Locust God in the deck while also trying to include some fun things to do with it, and the best I could find was adding Reprocess into the mix. This, The Locust God, and any wheel effect seems like it could pretty much draw your entire deck, especially combined with something like Consecrated Sphinx or Yawgmoth's Will. There's enough "may draw" clauses that we should never run out of cards, and with something like Library of Leng, it's no problem at all. I could be talking crazy, but I'll be testing it out myself for sure, and I'd like to know what other people think of it as well!
Before anything, congratulations on having such a good time at GP Vegas, Burning! Your write-up was great to read.
I imagine everyone has been looking at the spoilers for HOD with baited breath for what new toys we might be getting to play with. When the full spoiler comes out, I'm sure there will be more discussion on the set, but right now there were a couple of cards that caught my eye that I wanted to start a conversation on.
The first one was the new sweeper Hour of Revelation. To me, I think this is worth consideration because of two things, it sweeps away any board state we might have while still allowing us to have potential Tron mana advantage the next turn (depending on how we cast it, of course). This cards also only gets better for us in the late game. I think the costing of this card is meant to be prohibitive unless you meet the alternate casting condition, but with Tron 6 mana is still a potential turn 4 wrath effect.
The obvious downside to this card is that WWW can be tricky to achieve in the early game when you're trying to establish your mana presence. On gthe other hand, I don't think it's very likely for us to cast this on turn 4. With natural tron and some aggressive signet casting, I think this is more a possible turn 5 or 6 wrath effect that only gets cheaper in the long game. There's also the dis-synergy with our own non-land permanents, but that's just the cost of playing sweepers. I'll gladly trade two signets for a Death's Shadow or Dredge board state any day.
I also wanted to talk about both Supreme Will and Solemnity. I haven't made up my mind about Supreme Will yet, it seems like it does two things we want in one card, but not as well as the other cards we already have. I think it's a tester for sure, but I'm not sold on it.
Solemnity on the other hand, seems a bonkers sideboard card for any deck playing white. It stops infect, affinity, and Walking Ballista shenanigans right quick for a start, not to mention no more counter tricks with winding constrictor or counter based Abzan lists. I think it's worth a serious look at for the 75.
As always, conversation and discussion is always invited, but I'm pretty jazzed for this set, not just for this deck, but for all the spice they've given us this round.
That's a good observation about the Chalice, that it counters as it's being cast, not while it's on the stack. I was more excited about the idea of generating the same type of value from our non-instant spells as our instant ones. I find myself holding up mana a lot for reactive answers, but being able to threaten something unstoppable at the same time sounds like an idea worth exploring!
I've only recently picked up Mono U Tron, but I've been a fan of the deck a long time.
I was looking through the recent wave of spoilers and came across this:
Emergence Zone
Land
T: Add (c).
1, T, Sacrifice Emergence Zone: You may cast spells this turn as thought they had flash.
This seems like a pretty flexible tool in the tool box. Being able to flash in Chalice in response to something, or dropping Mindslaver eot sounds like good clean fun. I'm certainly going to be testing one when it arrives
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Field of Ruin
3x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Urza's Mine
3x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Artifact (5)
2x Azorius Signet
3x Expedition Map
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (20)
2x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
2x Negate
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Spell Snare
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantment (1)
1x Detention Sphere
Sorcery (4)
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
1x Batterskull
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Gainsay
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Rule of Law
2x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Timely Reinforcements
I'll make as many notes as I can recall
R1 Opp is on Mono-Red good stuff. Lots of burn + swiftspear and things like Shard Volley to try and be as quick as possible.
G1 I got pounded on pretty fast with Goblin Guides and Monastery Swiftspears. I kept a pretty medium mulligan to 6 that didn't have any ramp or a board wipe. G2 I get a lucky top deck of Gifts Ungiven on another medium mulligan, and reanimate Iona, Shield of Emeria naming red. His suspended Rift Bolt fizzled when it tried to get cast on his upkeep to burn me for the last points, and scooped when he realised that wouldn't work. G3 was much less exciting, I made a big misplay and didn't cast the Leyline of Sanctity that I drew the turn before I died to a Lightning Bolt and three Shard Volley.
0-1
R2 Opp is on Devoted Company, a pretty stock list with the infinite green mana combo and Shalai, Voice of Plenty for protection.
G1 I hold him off by Path to Exile -ing his combo pieces and close the game out with Gifts Ungiven for Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite the turn after he casts a Collected Company. G2 He lands a Scavenging Ooze and puts together the Devoted Druid / Vizier of Remedies combo, but never finds anything to do with his mana but consume my graveyard. I eventually Gifts for a board wipe and Ugin, The Spirit Dragon as my 4th card, and he had enough.
1-1
R3 is U/W control.
G1 we both durdle and do what control mirrors do until he eventually gets down Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Jace, The Mindsculptor and I don't care about the game anymore. G2 goes a little smoother with me being able to dig a little faster and hard cast Leyline of Sanctity and eventually get to tap 15 for Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He couldn't dig for a Terminus, and scooped. G3 I get a Thought-Knot Seer out T3 and exile the only castable card in his hand. I beat face while he tries to recover and eventually concedes.
2-1
R4 Opp thought there were only 3 rounds and left before the matches started. I ended up with a 3-1 record, good for 4th place after breakers.
Some notes about the deck as I have it:
- I liked the 2 Negate in the main, but I think I also got really lucky running into decks that wanted to mostly cast non-creature spells, or had trouble putting the right pieces of creature combos together. There are a lot of powerful creature-based decks, and I think I mis-built there. I'm going to replace one, along with the Spell Snare, which felt actively bad the more I drew it in games. I want to experiment with a single Cyclonic Rift, and will think on what else to try.
-Leyline of Sanctity is pretty medium when it's not in your opening hand, but I never didn't have the mana to cast it when I drew it, along with doing something else. I think we're one of the few decks that can afford the opportunity cost of playing a 4-drop enchantment post board and have it still affect the game. I certainly don't recommend you plan your deck around casting it, but it is something to keep in mind.
- I never once thought Rule of Law was a card worth bringing in at this event. If you have a lot of storm or combo in your meta, I see the appeal, but I think I'm going to be looking for something different there as well.
-Thought-knot Seer is so good in Control matchups. We're often faster with ramp, and they often can't easily deal with 4/4 attackers postboard. I think it's a very good card that our deck plays with very well.
-Being able to hard cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is so dope
As always, questions, comments, criticisms are welcome.
What I'm always wondering about, and the part of magic that I have the most trouble with, is sideboard slots. What are people running in their sideboards that are more local meta calls, rather than the things we see show up in every list. For example, the last LGS I played, there was some lantern and grixis, so I ended up relying more on things like Leyline of Sanctity. What are some fun-of or hidden tech cards that you use in your local stores?
1: Right now, I run two signets and one talisman, and those, in addition to the 3 maps, the Engineered Explosives, and the 3-4 other artifacts that serve as utility cards or win conditions, I find I never really have an issue with TfK discards. I think bulking up on extra artifacts just for the sake of having extra artifacts to discard isn't the best use of our space, and I would rather have those extra 2-3 spots taken up with counter magic or something like Detention Sphere or Blessed Alliance to give the deck extra game against weaker matchups game 1.
2. I think you're totally right about main-deck Thought-knot Seer. I was trying them in my deck and felt they could be better replaced with something that fits more with our main-deck plan. Like I wrote above, other people's lists might have different set ups than my own that can optimise TkS in the main, but for myself, I'm going to keep exploring different options.
3. I only run two Colonnades in my deck, and only because I happened to buy two before they went crazy sky high in price. Generally speaking, I don't like enter tapped lands as a rule, but my philosophy with this deck is to be as flexible and as full of answers as possible at all times. Being able to answer whatever deck we're paired against with a variety of answers is best, and if they stone rain or field of ruin a colonnade instead of a tron piece, that's fine with me. I think, like you mentioned, it's meta dependent and if you're finding so much land destruction going on, then I could 100% see using a Temple as a way to get value off a land drop if it might get blasted later on.
Like I said, this is all based on my own experiences with the deck, and I'm always shifting cards in and out to see what sticks and what doesn't. I would interested in seeing your list and what experiences you've had with the deck, especially since you're coming back to it after some time away.
I was thinking of experimenting with adding some number of Damping Sphere but because this is an LGS I have never been to before, I'm wondering if I should even change anything, and just see how I roll with the 75 as is. If anyone has any advice or tips, I'm always all ears!
1x Academy Ruins
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Field of Ruin
2x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Sorcery (4)
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Instant (17)
1x Blessed Alliance
3x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Syncopate
3x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Azorius Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Expedition Map
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Talisman of Progress
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (6)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
2x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
2x Ghostly Prison
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Timely Reinforcements
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
Fresh off the Dominaria release notes spoiled earlier, this first ability seems like a pretty big hose to everything we're trying to do, and the second clause doesn't do us any favours either. Maybe time to start maindecking Ceremonious Rejection in place of a Remand?
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
I used to run Seachrome Coast as well, which I switched out for the Godless Shrine, for exactly the same reason I only run two Colonnades. Generally, I'm way more comfortable being 2 life down with an untapped land, than ripping an "enters tapped" land right when I don't need it. I've had a lot of games that came down to me drawing *any* untapped land to get me back in, and not getting there. It may only be anecdotal evidence, but I find that Godless gives me a lot more flexibility in what I want to be doing with the deck.
1x Academy Ruins
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Planeswalker (2)
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (17)
3x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
1x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Coax from the Blind Eternities
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Creature (4)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
Artifact (8)
3x Azorius Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
I'm planning on going back this week, and I fully anticipate playing against GDS again. Is there anything new that came out in Ixalan that they're using we should watch out for? How much of a problem does this new 5-colour human deck seem to be?
I'll see if I can put together a useful tournament report after this Friday, and try and give some insight to what I face off against!
Long time Nekusar player, but the first time finding this board.
I was thinking about how to include The Locust God in the deck while also trying to include some fun things to do with it, and the best I could find was adding Reprocess into the mix. This, The Locust God, and any wheel effect seems like it could pretty much draw your entire deck, especially combined with something like Consecrated Sphinx or Yawgmoth's Will. There's enough "may draw" clauses that we should never run out of cards, and with something like Library of Leng, it's no problem at all. I could be talking crazy, but I'll be testing it out myself for sure, and I'd like to know what other people think of it as well!
I imagine everyone has been looking at the spoilers for HOD with baited breath for what new toys we might be getting to play with. When the full spoiler comes out, I'm sure there will be more discussion on the set, but right now there were a couple of cards that caught my eye that I wanted to start a conversation on.
The first one was the new sweeper Hour of Revelation. To me, I think this is worth consideration because of two things, it sweeps away any board state we might have while still allowing us to have potential Tron mana advantage the next turn (depending on how we cast it, of course). This cards also only gets better for us in the late game. I think the costing of this card is meant to be prohibitive unless you meet the alternate casting condition, but with Tron 6 mana is still a potential turn 4 wrath effect.
The obvious downside to this card is that WWW can be tricky to achieve in the early game when you're trying to establish your mana presence. On gthe other hand, I don't think it's very likely for us to cast this on turn 4. With natural tron and some aggressive signet casting, I think this is more a possible turn 5 or 6 wrath effect that only gets cheaper in the long game. There's also the dis-synergy with our own non-land permanents, but that's just the cost of playing sweepers. I'll gladly trade two signets for a Death's Shadow or Dredge board state any day.
I also wanted to talk about both Supreme Will and Solemnity. I haven't made up my mind about Supreme Will yet, it seems like it does two things we want in one card, but not as well as the other cards we already have. I think it's a tester for sure, but I'm not sold on it.
Solemnity on the other hand, seems a bonkers sideboard card for any deck playing white. It stops infect, affinity, and Walking Ballista shenanigans right quick for a start, not to mention no more counter tricks with winding constrictor or counter based Abzan lists. I think it's worth a serious look at for the 75.
As always, conversation and discussion is always invited, but I'm pretty jazzed for this set, not just for this deck, but for all the spice they've given us this round.