MTG Salvation

Quote from stokpile »

So I can do what I outlined above, but it wouldn't let me for example see the third card if I was casting a preordain?

In the case of Preordain, even though you look at two cards of the library while scrying, the cards looked at this way don't leave that library (C.R. 701.16b, 701.16d, 701.18a). By the time you draw a card this way, only if you put both cards on the bottom of the library in the scry can the third card from the top (if any) become the top card of that library (C.R. 701.18a). See also this thread.

EDIT (Feb. 10, 2021): Some rules were renumbered in the meantime.

Precognition Field's first ability will say "You may look at the top card of your library any time" with Guilds of Ravnica (C.R. 108.1) (as opposed to, say, "any time you could cast an instant" [C.R. 304.5]). This includes between the time you cast a spell and the time you regain priority (if any) (review C.R. 601.2, especially C.R. 601.2i), and in general any time between two actions that are not simultaneous (see also this thread).

The first ruling given for Epic Experiment at the time of this writing is more relevant when an effect cares about spells—

• that were cast before a given spell would be (such as in Mana Maze and storm [C.R. 702.40a] — see also this thread and this thread), or
• that would be cast while a given spell is on the stack (as in split second [C.R. 702.61a] — see also this thread),

rather than when an effect cares about the next spell (of a certain kind) a player would cast after the effect begins (as in Howl of the Horde and Doublecast, as well as in Quicken). If an effect would have a player cast more than one spell at once, that player nevertheless casts them one at a time, since casting a spell is a multistep process (C.R. 601.2).

EDIT (Jun. 8, 2021): Edited, including because some rules were renumbered in the meantime.

With Guilds of Ravnica, a new section 4.8 was added to the Magic Tournament Rules that covers reversing unintended actions in sanctioned tournaments. See also Toby Elliott's policy changes article. I have edited my posts in this thread accordingly.

In general, under C.R. 707.6, the controller of "multiple ... face-down permanents ... must ensure at all times that [their] face-down ... permanents can be easily differentiated from each other". C.R. 707.6 gives examples of what differentiating those permanents means, but emphasizes that the statement just cited "is not limited to" those examples. In any case, the identity of the three manifested cards in question in this scenario was known to all players by the time each was manifested, since all three were manifested while they were revealed due to Future Sight (recall that distinguishing face-down permanents includes "knowing what ability ... caused the permanents to be face down", among many other things [C.R. 707.6]).

When Fumble resolves, you must attach all "Auras and Equipment" referred to by Fumble to another creature (other than the targeted creature), to the extent possible, even if—

• all the creatures you can choose from to receive the Auras and Equipment are controlled by opponents, or
• attaching the Auras and Equipment to another creature this way would not be in your favor

(C.R. 609.3, 608.2c, 701.3a; see also C.R. 101.3; note that Fumble doesn't say "another creature you control" or "another creature with the same controller as that creature"; for Equipment, see also C.R. 301.5; compare Fumble with Glamer Spinners). If there is no other legal creature for an Aura, that Aura will go to the graveyard (C.R. 704.5m). If there is no other legal creature for an Equipment, that Equipment will remain on the battlefield (C.R. 704.5n).

EDIT (Nov. 4): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Jan. 2): Add rule citation.
EDIT (Feb. 8, 2020): Add comparison.

Sorcerous Spyglass affects only certain activated abilities. Dawn of Hope's first ability is a triggered ability, not an activated ability, since it begins with "whenever" (compare C.R. 603.1 with C.R. 602.1). (Mana abilities are activated or triggered abilities that produce mana and meet certain other requirements [C.R. 605.1a-b].)

Under C.R. 709.2, a flip card has only its normal characteristics "[i]n every zone other than the battlefield, and also on the battlefield before the permanent flips". However, C.R. 709.2 doesn't clarify whether that is true while the card is outside the game (that is, not in any of the game's zones [C.R. 400.10]), which is where the card is at the moment of determining whether that card can appear in a Commander deck (see also C.R. 903.4a, which deals with color identity). Unfortunately, this is a gap in C.R. 709.2.

EDIT (after comment 4 was posted): But see C.R. 709.1b.

1. For Rhizome Lurcher, you count the number of creature cards in your graveyard at the moment just before it enters the battlefield under your control to determine how many +1/+1 counters to give it (C.R. 400.6, 109.5). This can include Rhizome Lurcher itself if it's entering the battlefield from your graveyard (see also this thread). In this case, Path of Discovery's ability will trigger only at the moment Rhizome Lurcher enters, and not before then (C.R. 603.2, 603.6a).

2. In this case, both Barrier of Bones's and Path of Discovery's triggered abilities will trigger. If you controlled both permanents at that time, you choose the order they go on the stack (C.R. 603.2, 603.3b, 112.8).

Exchanges and last known information

According to a ruling, an effect that exchanges a permanent's toughness with another number (C.R. 701.10g), such as the one found on Tree of Perdition, fails if that permanent is no longer on the battlefield (see also this thread). The rationale is that "you can't change last known information", which would otherwise be used by effects that care about the information of a permanent no longer on the battlefield (C.R. 608.2g).

This shows that C.R. 701.10g is not clear enough, unfortunately. It's up to the rules manager to decide whether to add clarifying text like the following: "If either of those values is a characteristic of an object, and the object is not in the appropriate zone, the exchange fails; its last known information (see rule 608.2g) is not used this way."

Quote from Rezzahan »

Quote from peteroupc »

But you can't change last known information, so even if you were not required to exchange with the Tree's toughness but with its value, 701.10a applies
[quote]701.10a A spell or ability may instruct players to exchange something (for example, life totals or control of two permanents) as part of its resolution. When such a spell or ability resolves, if the entire exchange can’t be completed, no part of the exchange occurs.

If that is the case, then unfortunately, C.R. 701.10g is not clear enough. It's up to the rules manager to decide whether to add clarifying text like the following: "If either of those values is a characteristic of an object, and the object is not in the appropriate zone, the exchange fails; its last known information (see rule 608.2g) is not used this way."

Quote from Rezzahan »

The Tree's gatherer rulings disagree:

7/13/2016 If Tree of Perdition isn’t on the battlefield when the ability resolves, the exchange can’t happen and the ability will have no effect. Notably, activating the ability and giving Tree of Perdition -13/-13 in response won’t cause your opponent to lose the game.

This exchange won't work.

Nothing in C.R. 701.10g directly says that if a toughness and some other value are to be exchanged, the source of that toughness has to be on the battlefield or in the appropriate zone during the exchange. Also recall what C.R. 608.2g says about last known information: In general, if an "effect requires information from a specific object", such as what is that object's toughness, and if that object is "no longer in" "the public zone it was expected to be in", "the effect uses the object's last known information", that is, 0 in this scenario.

EDIT (Jan. 8): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Feb. 14): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Mar. 2): Correction in quoting.

Quote from peteroupc »

So, it would work?

Yes, it would work as you want. When Tree of Perdition's activated ability resolves with a legal target, it checks for Tree of Perdition's last known toughness (which will generally be 0 in your scenario), and you will exchange the targeted opponent's life total with that number.

EDIT: Struck out after comment 14 was posted.

Quote from Prime Crusader »

Salutations.

So, a creature dies on my turn, I tap Tree Of Perdition, then cast Morbid Tragic Slip... Would it work? I don't think so. But I like to be sure about these things.

When Tragic Slip resolves, if Tree of Perdition's toughness is 13 or less and another creature died this turn, Tree of Perdition will get -13/-13 and then go to the graveyard as a state-based action for having toughness 0 or less (C.R. 116.3b, 116.5, 704.5f, 613.1g, 613.3c). However, that doesn't affect whether Tree of Perdition's activated ability gets to resolve, which still has you exchange the targeted opponent's life total with Tree of Perdition's last known toughness — which is still possible even if Tree of Perdition has left the battlefield or that toughness is less than 0 (C.R. 107.1b, 608.2g; under C.R. 112.7a, that ability "exists ... independently" of Tree of Perdition "(o)nce activated" ; note that this is an exchange of two values under C.R. 701.10g).

EDIT: Struck out certain text after comment 14 was posted.
EDIT (Nov. 7; Feb. 14): Added text.

In general, a permanent enters the battlefield untapped unless something states otherwise (C.R. 110.5b). Neither Venser's first ability nor Gilded Lotus specify otherwise, so Gilded Lotus enters the battlefield untapped, regardless of whether the old Gilded Lotus was tapped or untapped before it left the battlefield. However, Nevinyrral's Disk does specify otherwise, so Nevinyrral's Disk enters the battlefield tapped.

Note also that Venser's first ability doesn't make anything phase out (review C.R. 702.25).

EDIT (Feb. 14): Edited.
EDIT (Jul. 9, 2019): One rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.