Hi, OP here. I got the answers I wanted upthread, and this topic keeps getting discussed, so I thought I'd explain my earlier statement.
My biggest issue with byes is structural advantage. At most GPs, between 30 and 70 percent of the people who get 39 points move on to the top 8. Adam is a pro with three byes and has to go 10-2, at which point he stands a pretty good chance of getting in. Bill, who has no byes, has virtually no chance of making top 8 due to the tiebreaker if he goes 13-2, so he pretty much has to go 14-1. So in what way is Bill incentivized to pay his entry fee? If I ran a heads-up poker tournament this way, no one other than the Adams would ever sign up; even the 2-bye players would laugh at me and my structure. But it's ok because it's Magic?
Count me in with the group that thinks byes within tourneys is ok (like if there were byes within the top 8 for the top 2 finishers or whatever) but not ok if you are actively punishing people for their inability to devote 40+ weekends per year to a single pursuit, especially one so heavy on travel. Keep that structure in place if you want, but don't be surprised if I never participate (hence me wanting to know which ones are which.)
When you referenced poker in an earlier post, I wanted to tell you that this isn't anything like that. You can't grind your way to the top; the rake is just too high. Also, at high levels, cheating is more common than you might expect and collusion is borderline epidemic. The tournament structure is the biggest cause of all the collusion, but it isn't changing any time soon.
You can either play casually and have fun (it is a GREAT game) or you can sink a ton of time and money into it to be competitive. What you can't do is be slightly better than people at your level and have it be mildly profitable the same way you can in poker. You can, however, keep the costs to minimum with certain format selections.
I think that "earned" byes (i.e. those that occur for any reason other than an odd number of participants) are stupid. The point of this thread is not to discuss the logic or validity of that opinion, but how to live with it.
I want to determine which mid to high (i.e. above LGS level) tournaments do not use byes. From there, I can determine if I have an interest in taking my game to the next level or if I just want to stay casual-only, knowing that the latter means that there's probably an expiration date on my interest. Please let me know what does and doesn't have byes.
My understanding so far:
Byes:
GP main events
SCG main events
WMCQs
No byes:
Team GPs
GP and SCG side events
PTs
MTGO
PTQs
Dunno:
Any other events I'm not aware of
Please let me know if there are any events I am incorrect about or if I am missing anything. Thanks in advance for your help in populating my list.
Edited to update list. Thanks to motley and mister for their assistance
My biggest issue with byes is structural advantage. At most GPs, between 30 and 70 percent of the people who get 39 points move on to the top 8. Adam is a pro with three byes and has to go 10-2, at which point he stands a pretty good chance of getting in. Bill, who has no byes, has virtually no chance of making top 8 due to the tiebreaker if he goes 13-2, so he pretty much has to go 14-1. So in what way is Bill incentivized to pay his entry fee? If I ran a heads-up poker tournament this way, no one other than the Adams would ever sign up; even the 2-bye players would laugh at me and my structure. But it's ok because it's Magic?
Count me in with the group that thinks byes within tourneys is ok (like if there were byes within the top 8 for the top 2 finishers or whatever) but not ok if you are actively punishing people for their inability to devote 40+ weekends per year to a single pursuit, especially one so heavy on travel. Keep that structure in place if you want, but don't be surprised if I never participate (hence me wanting to know which ones are which.)
You can either play casually and have fun (it is a GREAT game) or you can sink a ton of time and money into it to be competitive. What you can't do is be slightly better than people at your level and have it be mildly profitable the same way you can in poker. You can, however, keep the costs to minimum with certain format selections.
I want to determine which mid to high (i.e. above LGS level) tournaments do not use byes. From there, I can determine if I have an interest in taking my game to the next level or if I just want to stay casual-only, knowing that the latter means that there's probably an expiration date on my interest. Please let me know what does and doesn't have byes.
My understanding so far:
Byes:
GP main events
SCG main events
WMCQs
No byes:
Team GPs
GP and SCG side events
PTs
MTGO
PTQs
Dunno:
Any other events I'm not aware of
Please let me know if there are any events I am incorrect about or if I am missing anything. Thanks in advance for your help in populating my list.
Edited to update list. Thanks to motley and mister for their assistance