Wow, I knew my "every cheap card with Paradise in the name and also some other creatures I guess" deck was silly, but I did not expect to get crushed so brutally. This is what I get for not paying attention to what cards are actually good/popular in the format
vs Mogg: Hedron Crawler is useless, but I can still ramp with Warping Wail for a Scion. With a turn 3 Thought-Knot to take out Mogg's Thought-Knot, they are left with no threats. 6-0
vs NemataGG: On the play, I drop my creatures and swing for 18 before NemataGG can drop their first Walker, and I hit for lethal with whichever one they don't block on turn 6. On the draw I only get in 9 damage uncontested, and next turn there's a 9/9 blocker in my way, and things only get worse from there. I can't get through for more than 4 more damage, and if I hold back, there are quickly 3 Walkers big enough to trample through everything I have for 20+ damage at once. 2-2
vs tomsloger: On the play, turn 3 Thought-Knot takes out Ensnaring Bridge and I'm clear. On the draw, Bridge makes it out, so I have no way to win, but I can Thought-Knot the Chalice and leave tomsloger with no way to win either. 4-1
vs WhammeWhamme: I can't stop Emrakul from coming out on turn 3. 0-6
Crystal Core - 5 cards. All creatures are have base power and toughness 5/5.
Aftermath - 3 cards, land rule. You may submit custom split cards, where each side is a PHM-legal instant or sorcery (which is not already a split card) except that one side also has Aftermath.
Commander - 3 different cards plus a legendary creature, land rule. Use all the standard rules for the Commander format.
Aw crud, I was actually thinking about submitting for this week (for the first time in ages) and I waited too long. Had been thinking about Spear of Heliod + Hammer of Purphoros, or Genju of the Realm + either Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim or Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Oh well.
Tempted to flout the round rule by submitting an artifact creature, an enchantment creature, Dryad Arbor, one of the Origins flipwalkers, and...well I don't think there are any instant creatures or sorcery creatures, so I guess that idea is hosed
OK my question was probably not worded the best way. HerziQuerzi, you are right that casting a spell without paying its mana cost counts as casting it for an alternative cost, but I don't think it follows just from this that other alternative costs are prohibited by the round rule.
Essentially, the rule could be trying to say "You can't take the action of casting-a-spell-without-paying-its-mana-cost", or it could be trying to say "You can't cast a spell unless you pay its mana cost."
LeafGold, Phyrexian mana is fine either way, as are things like convoke and improvise. These abilities don't create alternate costs, they just let you pay the regular cost of a spell by doing things other than spending mana.
vs. 04 kathywathy: Hammer kills Sorin in two Hammers, then tokens, then them. 6-0
WhammeWhamme, killing Sorin first doesn't work when you're on the draw. By the time you can cast your second Hammer, Sorin's had time to get back up to 4 loyalty, so you don't finish him until turn 8, at which point there are 5 vampires on the board and you've taken 10 damage. You can't pick them off before they kill you. Not sure if there's a better strategy.
Holy crap I got a perfect round????? Howww did I do that????
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
3 | 6 6 X 6 6 6 6 6 | 42
All matches where my opponent is running a creature are pretty obvious: I kill the creature on turn 5+n, where n is that creature's toughness. None of them are fast enough to kill me before then. The interesting ones are Sorin and Hammer of Bogardan.
vs 4kathywathy: 6-0
You can make at most 3 tokens before I start being able to pick one off every turn. That means you'll have at most 2 to attack with on any given turn, and fewer if you ever use Sorin's -2 instead of making a token. Starting on my turn 12 I can burn vampires faster than you can make them, so I stop taking damage by turn 13. If I've done the math right, the most you can do by then is 16 damage, so the Flames get there.
vs 8WhammeWhamme: 6-0
I start doing damage on turn 6, hitting for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and then a lethal 6 (or 9 if I'm greedy and don't buy Flames back the last time). That's a kill on turn 11. You need to cast Hammer 7 times to kill me, but since you can only pick it back up during your upkeep, the earliest you can cast it for the second time is turn 7. By 8 you can pick up the Hammer and throw it again every turn, but that still only gives you lethal on turn 12.
Sorry I'm really late scoring my row, been super busy as you can probably tell since my deck was only thought out as far as "oh hey it'd be funny to play a counterspell in the split-second format"
2: Hesitation / Chancellor of the Forge / Chancellor of the Tangle
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
2 | 0 X 6 0 0 0 0 1 | 7
vs 1BronYAur: 0-6
You can pitch the Moat to Hesitation and just beat me up with an army of fliers.
vs 2InfiniteNutshell xx
vs 3mederer: 6-0
I cast turn 1 Hesitation, you get rid of it by casting your Seal. Turn 4 you can cast Eureka, but your Ashen Rider either hits a land or my 1/1 and I get a free Chancellor of the Tangle. Then you can exile the Chancellor when it kills the Rider but you're out of threats and I still have Chancellor of the Forge. If you don't bother with Eureka and just wait to hardcast Ashen Rider, I can cast Chancellor of the Tangle on my next turn and then things proceed the same way.
vs 4nerdyjoe: 0-6
You need Exploration to outrace me but if you're on the draw you can hold it and burn Capsize to get rid of Hesitation, and you still get to a stable Saproling engine that can block all my creatures faster than I can kill you. When I'm on the draw, I can't even delay Exploration so you beat me even quicker.
vs 5Personman: 0-6
Crushed by Windfall and a 2/2
vs 6Reyemile: 0-6
Crushed by Liliana
vs 7tomsloger: 0-6
You lose your acceleration to Hesitation, but Anvil still knocks out my Chancellors before I can cast them, and my 1/1 can't kill you before Emrakul comes out.
vs 8WhammeWhamme: 1-4
On your play, you get your combo off right away and kill me with Iona in 3 hits. On my play, my 1/1 pokes you 9 times, then you use the Diamond to pop Hesitation and hardcast Iona. I can now cast whichever color Chancellor you don't forbid with Iona's ability. If you ever attack me, I can safely hit back for 7. It takes you 3 hits to kill me and it takes me only 2 more hits to kill you, so you won't attack and we draw.
Wow my deck doesn't work in more ways than I expected. I put a whole card slot into trying to make my stuff uncounterable but then I got so excited about Mana Crypt being free (since the damage is prevented) that I didn't notice the Crypt itself is vulnerable to Foil. >_<
Most matches I win on the play by using Daze on a Lotus or a threat, then swinging with my 9/9 Death's Shadow on turn 2, and if needed, using Stifle on the emblem to live through turn 3. Most matches I lose on the draw because my opponent does all their relevant stuff turn 1, and I can't cast Daze until I drop Watery Grave.
Sadly, I didn't get to use Stifle as anything other than an Angel's Mercy for U.
Looks like there are a couple of disagreements here - can someone check my row? Thanks!
EDIT: Figured out why I lose to psly4mne on the play; updated the match description below.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
4| 6 6 3 X 0 6 3 0 3 3
vs 1 BronYAur : Black Lotus / Mental Misstep / Solemn Offering / Groundbreaker
6-0: I let Death's Shadow get Misstep'd turn 1, then I can safely Stifle the emblem to stay alive longer
vs 2 Feyd_Ruin : Chancellor of the Dross / Foil / Island / Sea's Claim
6-0: Daze beats Foil and the drain 3 from the chancellor isn't enough to stop my gameplan
vs 3 HerziQuerzi : Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Elixir of Immortality / Lich's Mirror
3-3: I win on the play, since Lich's Mirror is vulnerable to Daze and 5 life from an Elixir activation isn't enough to hold out against Death's Shadow and Stifle. On the draw I can't stop the Mirror.
vs 4 InfiniteNutshell
x
vs 5 Mogg: Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Chronatog / Nevermore
0-6: I can't stop Mogg from dropping Chronatog, skipping turns, and blocking my Shadow.
vs 6 nerdyjoe : Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Erase / Exquisite Blood
6-0: On the play I Daze a Lotus and you're hozed. On the draw you cast Exquisite Blood on turn 1, but my beatdown is still fast enough to kill you.
vs 7 Personmann : Black Lotus / Nomads En-Kor / Daru Spiritualist / Diamond Valley
3-3: On your play, you gain 10000 or so life on turn 1. On my play I Daze the Lotus.
vs 8 psly4mne : City of Traitors / Sundial of the Infinite / Nourishing Shoal / Autochthon Wurm
3-3: I can deal with you gaining 15 life or shutting off your emblem indefinitely, but not both at once, so I win only on the play when I can Daze the Sundial.
CORRECRTION 0-6: If psly4mne waits until turn 2 to try to cast the Sundial, I can't Daze it or else I won't have mana to keep myself alive with Stifle. (I also can't Stifle my emblem preemptively on turn 2, because I'm relying on Death's Shadow becoming a 9/9.) Since they stop taking emblem hits once Sundial resolves, they just barely hold out, going down to 3 life before I die.
vs 9 WhammeWhamme : Eater of Days / Sol Ring / Mishra's Workshop / Lich's Mirror
3-3: More like Eater of Daze
vs 10 Reyemile : Leyline of Sanctity / Chancellor of the Dross / Chancellor of the Dross / Soul Spike
3-3: I win on the draw for a change!
To reiterate my thought from the thread where I proposed Slap Fight: Leyline of Punishment seems like too easy a way around the round rule, but all the other cards that make damage unpreventable seem fine. But I haven't thought much yet about what might actually be good in this format so I'm open to all opinions about banned lists.
00X0000|0
vs NemataGG: On the play, I drop my creatures and swing for 18 before NemataGG can drop their first Walker, and I hit for lethal with whichever one they don't block on turn 6. On the draw I only get in 9 damage uncontested, and next turn there's a 9/9 blocker in my way, and things only get worse from there. I can't get through for more than 4 more damage, and if I hold back, there are quickly 3 Walkers big enough to trample through everything I have for 20+ damage at once. 2-2
vs tomsloger: On the play, turn 3 Thought-Knot takes out Ensnaring Bridge and I'm clear. On the draw, Bridge makes it out, so I have no way to win, but I can Thought-Knot the Chalice and leave tomsloger with no way to win either. 4-1
vs WhammeWhamme: I can't stop Emrakul from coming out on turn 3. 0-6
X | 1 2 3 4 5 |
1 | X 6 2 4 0 | 300
Crystal Core - 5 cards. All creatures are have base power and toughness 5/5.
Aftermath - 3 cards, land rule. You may submit custom split cards, where each side is a PHM-legal instant or sorcery (which is not already a split card) except that one side also has Aftermath.
Commander - 3 different cards plus a legendary creature, land rule. Use all the standard rules for the Commander format.
3 card land rule (or draw rule?). Players can't cast spells.
Essentially, the rule could be trying to say "You can't take the action of casting-a-spell-without-paying-its-mana-cost", or it could be trying to say "You can't cast a spell unless you pay its mana cost."
LeafGold, Phyrexian mana is fine either way, as are things like convoke and improvise. These abilities don't create alternate costs, they just let you pay the regular cost of a spell by doing things other than spending mana.
(agreed with everyone that I lose)
WhammeWhamme, killing Sorin first doesn't work when you're on the draw. By the time you can cast your second Hammer, Sorin's had time to get back up to 4 loyalty, so you don't finish him until turn 8, at which point there are 5 vampires on the board and you've taken 10 damage. You can't pick them off before they kill you. Not sure if there's a better strategy.
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
3 | 6 6 X 6 6 6 6 6 | 42
All matches where my opponent is running a creature are pretty obvious: I kill the creature on turn 5+n, where n is that creature's toughness. None of them are fast enough to kill me before then. The interesting ones are Sorin and Hammer of Bogardan.
vs 4kathywathy: 6-0
You can make at most 3 tokens before I start being able to pick one off every turn. That means you'll have at most 2 to attack with on any given turn, and fewer if you ever use Sorin's -2 instead of making a token. Starting on my turn 12 I can burn vampires faster than you can make them, so I stop taking damage by turn 13. If I've done the math right, the most you can do by then is 16 damage, so the Flames get there.
vs 8WhammeWhamme: 6-0
I start doing damage on turn 6, hitting for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and then a lethal 6 (or 9 if I'm greedy and don't buy Flames back the last time). That's a kill on turn 11. You need to cast Hammer 7 times to kill me, but since you can only pick it back up during your upkeep, the earliest you can cast it for the second time is turn 7. By 8 you can pick up the Hammer and throw it again every turn, but that still only gives you lethal on turn 12.
2: Hesitation / Chancellor of the Forge / Chancellor of the Tangle
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
2 | 0 X 6 0 0 0 0 1 | 7
vs 1BronYAur: 0-6
You can pitch the Moat to Hesitation and just beat me up with an army of fliers.
vs 2InfiniteNutshell xx
vs 3mederer: 6-0
I cast turn 1 Hesitation, you get rid of it by casting your Seal. Turn 4 you can cast Eureka, but your Ashen Rider either hits a land or my 1/1 and I get a free Chancellor of the Tangle. Then you can exile the Chancellor when it kills the Rider but you're out of threats and I still have Chancellor of the Forge. If you don't bother with Eureka and just wait to hardcast Ashen Rider, I can cast Chancellor of the Tangle on my next turn and then things proceed the same way.
vs 4nerdyjoe: 0-6
You need Exploration to outrace me but if you're on the draw you can hold it and burn Capsize to get rid of Hesitation, and you still get to a stable Saproling engine that can block all my creatures faster than I can kill you. When I'm on the draw, I can't even delay Exploration so you beat me even quicker.
vs 5Personman: 0-6
Crushed by Windfall and a 2/2
vs 6Reyemile: 0-6
Crushed by Liliana
vs 7tomsloger: 0-6
You lose your acceleration to Hesitation, but Anvil still knocks out my Chancellors before I can cast them, and my 1/1 can't kill you before Emrakul comes out.
vs 8WhammeWhamme: 1-4
On your play, you get your combo off right away and kill me with Iona in 3 hits. On my play, my 1/1 pokes you 9 times, then you use the Diamond to pop Hesitation and hardcast Iona. I can now cast whichever color Chancellor you don't forbid with Iona's ability. If you ever attack me, I can safely hit back for 7. It takes you 3 hits to kill me and it takes me only 2 more hits to kill you, so you won't attack and we draw.
Looks like Bron has my row scored correctly.
Most matches I win on the play by using Daze on a Lotus or a threat, then swinging with my 9/9 Death's Shadow on turn 2, and if needed, using Stifle on the emblem to live through turn 3. Most matches I lose on the draw because my opponent does all their relevant stuff turn 1, and I can't cast Daze until I drop Watery Grave.
Sadly, I didn't get to use Stifle as anything other than an Angel's Mercy for U.
Looks like there are a couple of disagreements here - can someone check my row? Thanks!
EDIT: Figured out why I lose to psly4mne on the play; updated the match description below.
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
4| 6 6 3 X 0 6 3 0 3 3
vs 1 BronYAur : Black Lotus / Mental Misstep / Solemn Offering / Groundbreaker
6-0: I let Death's Shadow get Misstep'd turn 1, then I can safely Stifle the emblem to stay alive longer
vs 2 Feyd_Ruin : Chancellor of the Dross / Foil / Island / Sea's Claim
6-0: Daze beats Foil and the drain 3 from the chancellor isn't enough to stop my gameplan
vs 3 HerziQuerzi : Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Elixir of Immortality / Lich's Mirror
3-3: I win on the play, since Lich's Mirror is vulnerable to Daze and 5 life from an Elixir activation isn't enough to hold out against Death's Shadow and Stifle. On the draw I can't stop the Mirror.
vs 4 InfiniteNutshell
x
vs 5 Mogg: Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Chronatog / Nevermore
0-6: I can't stop Mogg from dropping Chronatog, skipping turns, and blocking my Shadow.
vs 6 nerdyjoe : Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Erase / Exquisite Blood
6-0: On the play I Daze a Lotus and you're hozed. On the draw you cast Exquisite Blood on turn 1, but my beatdown is still fast enough to kill you.
vs 7 Personmann : Black Lotus / Nomads En-Kor / Daru Spiritualist / Diamond Valley
3-3: On your play, you gain 10000 or so life on turn 1. On my play I Daze the Lotus.
vs 8 psly4mne : City of Traitors / Sundial of the Infinite / Nourishing Shoal / Autochthon Wurm
3-3: I can deal with you gaining 15 life or shutting off your emblem indefinitely, but not both at once, so I win only on the play when I can Daze the Sundial.
CORRECRTION 0-6: If psly4mne waits until turn 2 to try to cast the Sundial, I can't Daze it or else I won't have mana to keep myself alive with Stifle. (I also can't Stifle my emblem preemptively on turn 2, because I'm relying on Death's Shadow becoming a 9/9.) Since they stop taking emblem hits once Sundial resolves, they just barely hold out, going down to 3 life before I die.
vs 9 WhammeWhamme : Eater of Days / Sol Ring / Mishra's Workshop / Lich's Mirror
3-3: More like Eater of Daze
vs 10 Reyemile : Leyline of Sanctity / Chancellor of the Dross / Chancellor of the Dross / Soul Spike
3-3: I win on the draw for a change!