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  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    I'm not really sure what your analysis is showing, there. You have Huntz voting scum!Mindreaver and Mindreaver voting scum!Huntz? How about this...

    Town!Mindreaver/Scum!Huntz worlds:
    Name       | Voted Town | Voted Scum
    Mindreaver | 5          | 4
    Huntzilla  | 10 (or 8)  | 3
    Scarbo     | 7          | 2
    Vaimes     | 6          | 1
    Shockwave  | 3          | 0
    Scum!Mindreaver/Town!Huntz worlds:
    Name       | Voted Town | Voted Scum
    Mindreaver | 6          | 3
    Huntzilla  | 9 (or 7)   | 4
    Scarbo     | 7          | 2
    Vaimes     | 6          | 1
    Shockwave  | 3          | 0
    Still not sure what you're getting at, exactly, other than Huntz has been voting town a bunch and Mindreaver has sort of but not really. It's a load of wine just looking at the raw vote numbers like that because town has bad reads some times.

    But like. Huntz is assuming that Mindreaver has been pocketing me literally the entire game, and he threw his buddies to the wolves to put himself in the F4. In his first scum game. I just don't see it.

    Lynch Huntz in my opinion. His Mindreaver case isn't persuasive to me and if I thought it wasn't him I would've hammered Mindreaver myself.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    We don't know if they had N0 chat. My guess is probably not because pregame was super short. Less than 12 hours.

    In scum!Huntz worlds basically any town lynch wins them the game immediately on D4.
    I think they went for it trying to split push D_V and Jackrito/Seppel.

    Then at end of day they realized they weren't going to push Seppel through so they committed to the Vaimes bus because they wanted Scarbo to save Huntz' double vote. Vaimes was basically useless because they already knew whose roles were which.

    In scum!Mindreaver worlds a town lynch still wins them the game, they just have to wait for Proph to leave.
    Why would he not only talk me out of scum reading D_V but bus Scarbo in mylo?
    He's just hanging his team for town cred to get to F4 when he could have won immediately by getting Proph or Ghosting to vote Jack/Seppel or D_V so his team could pile on.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    D4:
    Quote from Atogaholic »
    Vote Count 4.1

    Mindreaver (1): scarbo
    scarbo (1): Silvercrys3467
    Jackrito (1): D_V

    Not Voting (7): Vaimes, Huntzilla, Ghosting, Mindreaver, zomgarcwind, Jackrito, Prophylaxis
    Quote from Bur »
    Vote Count 4.2

    Jackrito (3): D_V, Vaimes, scarbo

    scarbo (2): Silvercrys3467, Mindreaver
    D_V (2): Huntzilla, Huntzilla

    Not Voting (7): Ghosting, zomgarcwind, Jackrito, Prophylaxis
    Quote from Bur »
    Vote Count 4.3

    Seppel (3): D_V, Vaimes, scarbo
    scarbo (3): Silvercrys3467, Mindreaver, Ghosting

    D_V (2): Huntzilla, Huntzilla
    Vaimes (1): Prophylaxis

    Not Voting (2): zomgarcwind, Seppel
    Quote from Bur »
    Vote Count 4.5

    Vaimes (4): D_V, scarbo, Huntzilla, Huntzilla
    Seppel (1): Vaimes
    scarbo (2): Ghosting, Seppel

    Not Voting (4): Mindreaver, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467, zomgarcwind
    Quote from Atogaholic »
    Day 4 Final Vote Count

    scarbo (6): Ghosting, Seppel, D_V, Silvercrys3467, Mindreaver, zomgarcwind

    Vaimes (3): scarbo, Huntzilla, Huntzilla
    Seppel (1): Vaimes

    Not Voting (1): Prophylaxis


    D5 isn’t worth looking at because pretty much everyone wanted to lynch Vaimes except Vaimes.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    If this is still going when I get home I want to check the wagons from the past few days. Especially the day we lynched Scarbo.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Verifying that I said scum!Mindreaver would have neighborized Proph instead of me.

    The first thing Mind said to me in the quick topic was something to the effect of "I've been paranoid of you all game and I was hoping we could speak a little more freely and you could convince me you aren't scum."

    That just... doesn't sound like scum pocketing to me. He neighborized me to figure me out without knowing GJ was the night kill. I believe that. His Scarbo and Vaimes interactions look genuine.

    I don't think it's ever him. If he's scum this game, he got me good.

    In fact, he tried to convince me that Vaimes was scum but not D_V pretty early when I was saying it was probably Scarbo/Vaimes/D_V. If he was bussing, it was masterful.

    Lynch Huntz --> Win game. That's all I have to say.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    The thread is open until Dawn. Or at least the first one was. Maybe the night phase was too short, and he was going to tell you but the QT got closed? Or it just slipped his mind. Or we're wrong and he got yolo'd.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Actually, I kind of like zomg's narrative here. Huntz got his ability back, so D_V probably did too. D_V targets Huntz to save a cleared townie from the NK. He said Mindreaver was cleared behaviorally, so he must have targeted Huntz. Makes more sense than him yolo shooting D_V, anyway.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Interesting.
    Quote from D_V »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    It's not very relevant now. But after this game we're going to have to talk about mechanical clears vs behavioral. Because this mind over hunt and total clearing of dv baffles me.

    Bruh I'm behaviorally really clear.

    You're clear too behaviorally.

    Hunt is not.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    If that were true, D_V knew who the last scum was. Because he had to target them to divert the NK. Hrm.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Make a case on Mindreaver, then. I've put a lot of work into this game and led all three of the scum lynches while trying to prevent mislynches. I'd be lying if I said I want to decide, but the truth is I just don't think it's him and anything you say about your role clearing you is a load of wine that I can't take at face value. Scum double voters do exist, even though they probably shouldn't, and it's not lylo (it's mylo) so any clause that might be triggered at lylo, isn't.

    Fact is, his interactions with dead scum and the mindmeld we just had about trying to sow discord between us make me think he's town.

    If you're scum, you probably should've killed me instead of D_V.
    If you're town, well, sorry I guess. Mindreaver has played me masterfully if he's scum.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Basically, both have a lot strong not-buddy interactions with Mindreaver and nothing except soft words and distancing for Huntz.

    Therefore,
    vote: Huntzilla

    and may God have mercy on zomg's soul.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    This is (almost) everything Vaimes has said about Mindreaver or Huntz.

    (note: Vaimes RVS voted his scum buddy Scarbo)
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Hey Mindreaver, good to see you too. You roll scum yet? Wink
    Not yet Frown I'm beginning to think it won't happen.
    Thoughts on the happenings so far?
    CFC is a townlean, for passing the GJ reaction-test, and also being tonally different than star trek (although she was a replacement, so it's hard to tell). I didn't particularly like your 51, because it seemed a little self-aware regarding GJ, and the rest was a bit more wishy washy than you usually are. But it's page 2.
    Too hedgy. Could have used this opportunity to improve read on Silver, but instead left the read hanging.

    Unvote
    Vote Mindreaver
    Does he really go from one scum buddy to another here?
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Hi. I have some time to post before bed!

    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Thoughts on the happenings so far?
    CFC is a townlean, for passing the GJ reaction-test, and also being tonally different than star trek (although she was a replacement, so it's hard to tell). I didn't particularly like your 51, because it seemed a little self-aware regarding GJ, and the rest was a bit more wishy washy than you usually are. But it's page 2.
    Too hedgy. Could have used this opportunity to improve read on Silver, but instead left the read hanging.

    Unvote
    Vote Mindreaver

    Meh, me missing opportunities is not alignment indicative :p
    As far as Silver, the last few games I've been in with him he's immediately made my obv!town list early. As of that post, he hadn't given me those warm fuzzies, but wasn't giving me the heebie-jeebies. I hope that clears ***** up. Since that post though, I've been more impressed.
    Not quite clear.

    What kind of posts are you talking about in particular?
    This doesn’t feel like buddies. Too deep.
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Mindreaver: Sorry, I was actually talking about posts in past games you've played with him.

    Why exactly did you back off of Silver when you did? You said missing opportunities is NAI for you, but handling your vote the way you did is ???.
    Is this coaching? Doubtful. Then there’s this:
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Hm. I ~think I'm okay with Mindreaver now? The "I was gonna vote zomg" is eh, but not a huge deal.

    Wow there are a lot of players in this game.

    I kinda like Ghosting and Clover. Clover had some newb-ish/genuine vibes but I might have to double-check their experience. Someone said GJ feels the way he did in AA, which I will +1.

    Vaimes
    Prophylaxis
    Silvercrys3467
    zomgarcwind

    Ghosting
    Lil4leafclover
    Gentleman Johnny

    [all other players]

    Let's get the easy one out of the way next.

    Huntzilla: what are you? Also talk about your four strongest reads and why you have them, once you've caught up.
    Which is one of the posts I found strange in Vaimes’ progression. He says “I’m ok with Mindreaver” then doesn’t put him in his town block. In fact, none of his buddies except possibly Mindreaver are in his town list here. His next interesting post is another list:
    Quote from Vaimes »
    I'm kind of sad Hunt is the Double Voter. It would have been nice to almost-clear someone who's harder to read. :I
    Vaimes
    Prophylaxis
    Ghosting

    Huntzilla
    Silvercrys3467
    zomgarcwind

    DV
    Shockwave07
    Gentleman Johnny
    Mindreaver
    Cythare

    ---
    tomsloger
    ---
    Kosakosa
    shadowlancerx
    scarbo
    Jackrito
    SorenBlade
    Now he’s town reading Mindreaver/Shockwave/Huntzilla and scum/null reading Scarbo. His Huntz comment here is easy distance if they’re buddies. His next relevant post is another list from D2 right before Shockwave goes down:
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Vaimes
    Hunt
    Kosa
    Silver
    zomg
    GJ
    scarbo
    +1
    Ghosting
    Proph
    Where suddenly Mindreaver is no longer in the town circle and Scarbo is in it. No explanation on those two reads reversing, except he thinks Scarbo’s neutral tunneling means he doesn’t care that it looks scummy. It’d be pretty dangerous to drop your town read on a buddy like that, I think, especially when you’re probably planning for Shockwave to go down like a stone.

    Quote from Vaimes »
    Role name: Shoutarou Kaneda
    Role alignment: Town
    Regular ability/Time and Place used: Red Motorbike (Tracker). I can target a person and see whether or not they visited anyone. I don't get told whom. Tracked Mindreaver Night 1; used Kosa's scanner on DV Night 2.
    Latent Ability/Time and Place used: Unlocked if I live to the end of Day 2, but Ghosting unlocked it early. I can track someone and see whom they visit. Haven't used it yet.
    In his claim, he says he tracked Mindreaver. This raises three possibilities – they could be scum together, and Vaimes is using this as cover for performing the NK, OR since Mindreaver claimed first he knows it safe to say Mindreaver went no where, OR Vaimes really did track Mindreaver, probably due to the “don’t spray vanilla over here” comment Mindreaver made.

    The rest of his iso is total wine, and I’m not even going to bother quoting it. Stuff about how the neighbor reveal was a letdown and he hadn’t thought about Proph taking Huntz’ vote before leaving, etc.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    This is (almost) everything Scarbo has said about either Mindreaver or Huntz.
    Quote from scarbo »
    Cythare, Hunt, zomg, and tom are in descending order of solid town; G J and silver are conf- and possible-scum, respectively.
    Huntz is almost definitely town, no mention of Mindreaver. Null.
    Quote from scarbo »
    I'm hating Hunt's last post, really when anyone asks everyone else for their thoughts without offering their own or starts trying to link players so early. Who's seen games with scum double voters?
    Ehh…..
    Quote from scarbo »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from scarbo »
    @ghosting: do I have to beg for you win con? I know you're cooperating now, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for it to be advantageous for you to side with scum. Imagine a lylo situation where the only unlocked person was town. :|
    K, so, I'm having a reaalllly good time tonight. This response is gonna be the most epic of the whole thread.

    First, a scenario that you're painting, doesn't exist. Know why? Because if we believe in ghosting's neutrality, he doesn't know the scumteam either. Right? So he can't "target scum" and he can't "target town" either. He has no idea. The ONLY thing that ghosting can do, is literally target those least likely to be mafia killed or lynched. That means he can't go for top scumreads, nor top townreads. That's his criteria, outside maybe helping us out if we request a certain person, is just how long they will be in the game. BTW this is proph's targeting motivation as well.

    No, ghosting doesn't know. I think, that you are projecting your own knowledge of who is town and who is scum onto him. It only makes sense that you would consider the way in which to use the power would include knowledge you possess now.

    mic drop
    #legitGANGSTA
    #legalizeit


    Shadow's already tried to correct you, but you're either intentionally misconstruing what I said or know something the rest of us don't.

    In a lylo situation - let's imagine 2 scum (both unlocked), ghosting, and 2 town (one unlocked, one not). Since the mass claim, it's not unreasonable to assume it's public knowledge who's unlocked and who's not, especially since ghosting knows whom he's targeted. In this situation the scum know it's 2-2-1. All they have to do is claim, and have ghosting hammer on the locked town, leaving only unlocked players alive and the game over for a scum victory. Ghosting's been hinting that his win con is unlocking every living player. But you could have figured this all out.

    Vote: mindreaver
    Ehh…..
    Quote from scarbo »
    This is so crackpot I can't even follow anymore.

    I give my reason for wanting to know ghosting's win condition.

    You misconstrue it to look like I was talking about night actions.

    Shadow states what I obviously meant.

    I clarify exactly what I meant: one conceivable situation where town loses but ghosting wins.

    You dismiss that one conceivable situation, misconstruing it as the only possible situation where town loses but ghosting wins, arrived upon only because ghosting knows the scum team (because according to you I'm projecting there). Here's where it gets confusing for me.

    Then you say shadow was coming to my rescue to cover my scumslip and ask that I clarify how I thought ghosting would know how to target only scum?

    Did I get all that right?
    I really, really want to clear Mindreaver for this post, but then he follows up with this gem:
    Quote from scarbo »
    After our recent interactions, how can you possibly make the case that we're both scum?

    And what makes you think MR is scum?
    Which just sounds like he cares about whether MR will be town read or not after he flips. And then, there’s this wall:
    Quote from scarbo »
    Let's begin with Mindreaver's focus on Proph. Before I'm accused of calling the kettle black, there's a big difference between my focus on ghosting and this. Namely, I thought ghosting was lying scum.
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    So, are we just ignoring the whole Proph "I wish I was town" thing? I know it's probably some hare-brained scheme, and I'd love to give a better reaction, but Shrugs
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    On the subject of the proph claim, here is my opinion:

    1) Proph is unlikely to be lying, unless he's scum. I've seen him burned badly by lying about his role (as town I might add). I don't think he's got the stomach to try it again, as a neutral/town player. As scum, he might lie, but honestly I'm at a loss as to figure out why. Like is his master plan to get lynched? Easier ways to do that... ask Fable. And if he just wants to eventually destroy power roles... he should have kept his mouth shut.

    2) This is a dangerous role to have around. That alone makes me think not-scum. Because it puts any future claim in danger, and he just told us all about it. We might have to take him out at some point, if we out a power role of significance (like a cop), since his role doesn't kill, we'd have to roleblock him (which we don't even know we can). So outing himself might very well end up a death sentence.

    3) There is no reason to kill him today, unless we stall like crazy toward a deadline. I'd rather have him gone, because of #2, than a no-lynch but that's pretty much the only scenario.

    4) The tool you throw away today, is the dagger at your throat tomorrow. He's a tool. We use him. That's how it works. Maybe we win together, or maybe he's too dangerous to live. But I don't think we kill him today, and lose the chance to actually kill scum.

    He begins by basically stating he knows Proph isn't scum and proceeds to give reasons we should be worried and eventually lynch him. *This* is neutral-hunting scum mentality.

    This is pretty disingenuous. He’s not saying we should be worried about Proph and lynch him for sure, he’s saying Proph might need to be lynched later.

    He proceeds to focus on mechanics until going after GJ but then for some reason he switches to kosa. Then he changes his tune on Proph:
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    First, I also happen to believe proph. Also, I happen to believe ghosting as well. If his role is the opposite, it means he's essentially Anti-Vanillafying people. That doesn't seem like a scum ability. I don't see why both roles can't exist as claimed. It also doesn't seem like a hard thing to prove. Finally doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would hang around for long, if it wasn't true.

    So why are we willing to give proph the benefit of the doubt here, and not ghosting? Because of playstyle? I'm not understanding what the argument is. Are we afraid that ghosting is lying to... what exactly? I don't understand what his motive could be. So lets give him a small pool of targets, and see what happens. Maybe he eats a scum-side roleblock (or a NK), but that's pretty good for us too.
    He’s not changing his tune here, he believed Proph all along. So...

    changes his tune on kosa
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Dearest Kosa,

    Love this version of you. Can't quite decide if we are mindmelding because you're scum, or just that we aren't oil and water like D1 of star trek. In any case, Unvote. Very satisfactory post.

    Hugs and Kisses,
    Mind
    I don’t think Mind had a stated read on Kosa at this point, so how can he be “changing his tune”? He voted him for pressure then got a good response.

    changes his tune on GJ
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Sorry guys, I'm just bad. No excuse. Other games, work busy, kid, etc etc.

    Thoughts:

    Still getting a bad vibe from Silver.
    Love GJ right now. Never lynching him. Bringing up my absence as a scum tactic like that, when there are so many other juicy targets, is just not-scum. Town trying to figure it out.
    Tom is more engaged then I've ever seen him. I mean, no robot voice/gifs/silly posts. He's either the towniest, or trying some new tricks.
    omg i set of my fire alarm. sec
    He’s also not said he’s scum reading GJ. Like, this is either really, really sloppy bussing for towncred or he’s making disingenuous attacks on a townie here.

    Now there's a weird scum read on silver, followed up with
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    What's my scum motive for hard defending Kosa?
    Cause it makes you look town. Smile Take that WIFOM right back Smile

    Honestly Silver, I think my suspicion is the very high bar you've set for yourself (if anyone wants to see what I'm talking about go find where he replaced in for goldeneye, it's night and day). I'm jut not "dazzled". It's probably not fair, but it's the feeling I get reading you.

    But do I want you dead over inactives (that's right kettle, you're black!)? No
    Do I think we get a whole lot of interaction to look at with your flip? Probably not more than DV or Kosa.
    and yet still no vote on silver. We do however get a vote on...

    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Vote Cyth

    It's a better shot than nothing, and I didn't like that new name wagon.

    I'm rather null on him tbh. The post restriction seems super fake (really? Hashtag restriction? Have to vote restriction?) But I didn't necessarily think it was alignment indicative.

    YoLo

    Ghosting feel free to target me, I'm probably super powerful.
    Cythare! about whom he has said exactly nothing up to this point

    This is a fair angle of attack, but with the other stuff in there it just makes me shrug. As far as aligned/not aligned, eh.
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Cythere is still a fine lynch. I could go Shockwave, but that's mostly because he seems burned out and I'd rather get rid of a perpetual question mark than no lynch. INNN I will vote if it's 11:58 and we're a vote away. Otherwise, I like Cythere and Shock better.


    Still not sure why he would be OK with lynching Cythare. The interesting bit is his referencing shockwave, also for the first or second time. This comes after there was some talk about shifting wagons to shockwave for his inactivity. The thing is though that silver was spearheading that wagon, followed by Proph. So why else would Mindreaver be willing to follow is top scum read onto Shockwave's wagon?

    At no point did Mindreaver say I was his top scum read, he was saying I wasn’t very townie yet. There’s no reason he’d care about following me on to a wagon when I’m a null read.

    GJ picks up on something at the beginning of Day 2 that apparently triggers him.
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    You didn't consider all that you just knew I wasn't targeted.
    Straight up, I didn't say this. I said your ego was a casualty because Tom is on the ground instead of you. The rest of all this is all you dude. House of ******* cards. I'm ******* done with you. If you think that's just scum caving, lynch me, and at least I won't have to deal with your attitude.
    (on a side note, shadow's response to this is really weird):
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    You didn't consider all that you just knew I wasn't targeted.
    Straight up, I didn't say this. I said your ego was a casualty because Tom is on the ground instead of you. The rest of all this is all you dude. House of ******* cards. I'm ******* done with you. If you think that's just scum caving, lynch me, and at least I won't have to deal with your attitude.
    So far GJ is the only one pushing you, and he's been doing this to people all game. Note that he can't just unilaterally lynch you, I wouldn't let it bother you that much. I'm pretty sure that everyone will come under his crosshairs at some point.
    Segway into throwing shade at now-dead townies. Could be trying to get them lynched after his Mindreaver bus

    After INANN's wagon started to grow plump, we get a random PBPA and a nice opportunistic vote on INANN. There's some more trashposts until he finds my scum slip and gets really proud of himself. We've already addressed this though, but let's just put it all in one place for the record.

    PBPA’s are never random.
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from scarbo »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from scarbo »
    @ghosting: do I have to beg for you win con? I know you're cooperating now, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for it to be advantageous for you to side with scum. Imagine a lylo situation where the only unlocked person was town. :|
    K, so, I'm having a reaalllly good time tonight. This response is gonna be the most epic of the whole thread.

    First, a scenario that you're painting, doesn't exist. Know why? Because if we believe in ghosting's neutrality, he doesn't know the scumteam either. Right? So he can't "target scum" and he can't "target town" either. He has no idea. The ONLY thing that ghosting can do, is literally target those least likely to be mafia killed or lynched. That means he can't go for top scumreads, nor top townreads. That's his criteria, outside maybe helping us out if we request a certain person, is just how long they will be in the game. BTW this is proph's targeting motivation as well.

    No, ghosting doesn't know. I think, that you are projecting your own knowledge of who is town and who is scum onto him. It only makes sense that you would consider the way in which to use the power would include knowledge you possess now.

    mic drop
    #legitGANGSTA
    #legalizeit
    Shadow's already tried to correct you, but you're either intentionally misconstruing what I said or know something the rest of us don't.

    In a lylo situation - let's imagine 2 scum (both unlocked), ghosting, and 2 town (one unlocked, one not). Since the mass claim, it's not unreasonable to assume it's public knowledge who's unlocked and who's not, especially since ghosting knows whom he's targeted. In this situation the scum know it's 2-2-1. All they have to do is claim, and have ghosting hammer on the locked town, leaving only unlocked players alive and the game over for a scum victory. Ghosting's been hinting that his win con is unlocking every living player. But you could have figured this all out.

    Vote: mindreaver
    That's the worry? Seems like a perfect storm to me. You do get that right? That the only scenarios are lylo with a perfect setup, and a nuetral that doesn't share the town wincon (whatever it is). That there is no reason why Ghosting (or Proph) would be (should be) in that situation. It's certainly not justification for why he needs to provide a wincon right now. Especially when we all *kinda* know what it is already. I think if the game gets down to 9 or 8 players, you start killing neutrals, if you're so worried.

    Yeah, interesting that shadow provided you an out, and you don't have to talk about how you were afraid that ghosting would be targeting scum, the way DV argued. My point is that you know the scum team, and therefore if you had Ghosting's ability, you'd naturally want to "play optimally" by targeting scum (who won't be nightkilled). But you completely overlooked that YOU have information a NEUTRAL player wouldn't. Address that, not your pie-in-the-sky scenario.
    the icing on the cake is trying to link shadow and me. I try to make sure I understand his argument...
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from scarbo »
    This is so crackpot I can't even follow anymore.

    I give my reason for wanting to know ghosting's win condition.

    You misconstrue it to look like I was talking about night actions.

    Shadow states what I obviously meant.

    I clarify exactly what I meant: one conceivable situation where town loses but ghosting wins.

    You dismiss that one conceivable situation, misconstruing it as the only possible situation where town loses but ghosting wins, arrived upon only because ghosting knows the scum team (because according to you I'm projecting there). Here's where it gets confusing for me.

    Then you say shadow was coming to my rescue to cover my scumslip and ask that I clarify how I thought ghosting would know how to target only scum?

    Did I get all that right?
    Certainly an excellent strawman. If you're not following me still, after my last few posts. Let me know.
    So there's no real interest in scumhunting. He says as much when he finally decides to vote me:
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    But that isn't now. And knowing a specific wincon (or in this case, harping on and on about specific wording of such condition), is irrelevant. It also wasn't what I was saying. I do believe there was a scumslip by scarbo, when he was talking about how Ghosting should play. He's going to target scum and win is different than he's going to vote for people he hasn't unlocked. It shows that scarbo could target scum VS town.

    Unvote, Vote Scarbo
    For the scumslip. If I’m off base, I'm off base. But I think that was legitimate. This is with the caveat that I want him sorted overnight by GJ, and we work out well in advance exactly what should be happening with his night actions.
    And again he continues to misconstrue my hypothetical situation: that by randomly choosing unlocked targets, ghosting could find himself with an unlocked scum, a locked town, and side with scum. I don't know if he's doubling down on his super-cocky post or is just grasping at straws that hard. Filler posts follow until this gem.

    Already talked about this thing, at least as much as I’m willing to.
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Jackrito »
    Not even sure I can talk to Kosa since it says last dead town so that would mean whoever is lynched today so the only way I could talk to Kosa if they is no lynch which is less then ideal. Unless we can be sure they is a scum lynched today.
    Uh, did you forget which side you're on Smile
    First of all, jack clearly meant 'there,' so the whole thing is really just par for the course. My guess as to why he didn't pursue it: either jack is a scum buddy or there's no reason to get off a growing wagon.
    What I noticed most was the extreme density interactions: lots with GJ, silver, shadow, proph, and ghosting and virtually none with anyone else unless he decided to vote them. A scum flip would support town!-GJ, -silver, and -shadow. Given his lack of interaction with shock, it wouldn't surprise me if scum buddies were other players he's largely ignored: namely jack and zomg.
    The last bit definitely reads like he’s trying to flip lynches on to town after bussing his buddy. But… god, I don’t know. If they faked that whole thing over Ghosting, that’s impressive. As if to prove my point:
    Quote from scarbo »
    I never said I know proph isn't scum. I said I didn't think he'd try a lie about his role as town. That's very different. I'd like to see how I' "basically" said proph wasn't scum. Go ahead, read what scarbo has quoted here. I'm not saying that.
    Whether he would lie about his role as town is irrelevant since he claimed NOT TO BE TOWN.
    Because at this point Ghosting has unlocked abilities. That's good. Proph has vanillized GJ (which was a redirect AND worked out). Do you guys not see why this ability is MUCH more dangerous? I mean, this could very easily be redirected by well-meaning town and cause just as much damage as a malicious-scum redirect. And you clowns are worried about Ghosting's win con and betrayal. Proph is just as likely to betray us in the situation you've been championing. But agian and again, Proph is fine and Ghosting is bad. Ridiculous position. They are both dangers in LyLo situations, and proph's ability is much more dangerous to us than ghostings.
    You do realize that *I* was the one who redirected Proph, right?
    So I scum read Kosa early on, and then changed my tune. Then he flipped town? So... I was right to change? This is an argument for what exactly?
    That you're non-committal and opportunistic in your reads
    Lynched him all on my own man. But really, his restriction was self-made, and super shady. Also, the choice here wasn't "who I wanted dead" VS "some random guy" like you're painting it. This was "No Lynch" VS "INNN" VS "Cythere". And hoenstly, at the time, I liked INNN. He was posting and seemed really invested in not dying.
    You put him at L-1! We're in agreement on one thing: This was definitely not 'who you wanted dead' vs 'some random guy.' It was low-hanging fruit.
    I think you're just trying to make this all about the Ghosting Lylo thing. That's cool. But my point was how you proposed Ghosting would act. In that part, you specifically said ghosting would target scum over town, in a way to play optimally. It was garbage, and I caught you.
    No! I have said so many time I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT NIGHT ACTIONS. I WAS TALKING ABOUT GHOSTING'S PLAY DURING THE DAY IN A HYPOTHETICAL LYLO SITUATION. You are obstinately refusing to understand my point of view because it's incompatible with your cocky 'discovery.' This is unreal.
    The only thing. The only thing. That makes me think this could possibly be bussing is that as soon as I said I wouldn’t lynch Mindreaver he backed straight down and went on to pushing Jack.

    Then there's this:
    Quote from scarbo »
    oh great!

    Vote: Seppel

    hunt and Vaimes are the other two scum btw
    Pure wine. Dump it down the drain cause nothing good will come out of trying to decipher this post.

    Vaimes next. Not doing Shockwave because he said basically nothing.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    I'll be damned. He did get them back.

    Ugh. Ok, I'm gonna put some more work into this game. Just to be sure. Gimme a little while.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia Game Over - Friends Forever
    Well, I don't know if he has two votes yet.
    Like, he could be baiting me to fake hammer you and lying about getting his votes back.
    Or he could be doing that to make me say this and make me look suspicious.

    ...

    My point is, he's not mechanically confirmed to you until the vote count comes in.

    (we desperately need a wine glass emoji)
    Posted in: Mafia
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