Magic Market Index for Dec 28th, 2018
 
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Ultimate Masters: MMI Review
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from Highroller »
    Yeah... pretty sure EtR and DV aren't wolves together lol.
    What makes you rule that out?
    Theater is a thing, but that isn't what theater usually looks like. Especially from EtR's end, like, I don't know him very well but my impression of the sort of player he is says he isn't really into the overly emotional distancing stuff.

    I guess they could have day chat and it was all coordinated but [warning, modgaming] I don't think Cantrip usually gives wolves day chat. His last two games were night chat only.

    Like, if you think my read on EtR's playstyle is wrong or that they do have day chat or something, I'm all ears. I did follow up that statement with a request for more information from people who disagree.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    I never said you were the scummiest player in the game. And yeah, I missed your Rodemy progression, I thought your posting was townie in a vacuum and I wasn't playing super close attention to it. I'd still rather lynch Ruma, but it's you or DV, and I think you make more sense with Rodemy than he does.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Yeah... pretty sure EtR and DV aren't wolves together lol. Like, theater is definitely a thing, but this isn't... that, and they're both off wagon on the Rodemy lynch. Anyone who thinks this is theater care to elaborate?

    Alright here's a thing. I changed my mind on EtR after isoing him. He's pretty likely to be a Rodemy buddy even if I don't think his posting has been very wolfy in a vacuum. Also think DV's case on him is super bad, especially because I actually quite like EtR's posting absent the Rodemy stuff and DV didn't relate him to Rodemy at all, just like, his progression on Rodemy is super weird if he's not Rodemy's partner.

    Quote from EtR »
    Quote from Rodemy »
    Also tom standing up for Rumi doesn't feel like a scum move

    Where did he "stand up for Rumi" ?

    Quote from tomsloger »
    Quote from elijah »
    Quote from Rumanshi »
    POST #4

    I feel loved. Tom seems towny, Rod seems towny. elijah needs to explain more
    oooo this is wolfy, too
    if ruma is town Elijah would have to be the world's most tone deaf scum to say this after all that

    I like this thought from Tom.

    In post 96 Kamikazee proposes Name Claim to allow better targeting, however in post 97 (The next post, you see) he makes the statement that flavorgaming is unreliable. This to me feels a lot like scum fishing for info. Rodemy does the same exact thing in 98 and 99. This feels coordinated.

    To qualify my earlier statement a little bit: flavorgaming alignment is risky. My own #96 is flavorgaming of a sort - for example, I'm assuming that both Peter Venkman and Dana Barrett are Human from flavor - but I think that kind of flavorgaming is generally fine. MTGS mods generally don't change things like "is this character human". The only recent counterexample I can think of is very minor - Golgari Grave-Troll's colors being changed in Banned mafia.

    Slight back peddle here, but provides "the only recent example" being the very last game to finish.

    Quote from tomsloger »
    Highroller and Kami seem pretty earnest.
    No one else really moved the needle while I was asleep

    Oh no - I feel opposite.

    I still don't like Highroller pushing the PM issue. Feels icky.

    I like Vaimes for 122-124 but disagree with his current Tom view. I like his stance on claiming info.
    Here he's like. Says he likes a tom post, then says he thinks Rodemy and KA are coordinated scum posting, votes KA over Rodemy (this becomes a pattern).

    (There's a bit here that got cut off by the quote function that I liked on initial read, where he says he doesn't like a Vezok vote and immediately back pedals on it. I liked it because I feel like the wolf version of this post should either leave his dislike of Vezok open or should just omit that bit altogether, unless he's exactly Vezok's wolf buddy and trying to distance.)

    Quote from EtR »
    Quote from Atogaholic »
    Am I the last one to check in ? ##Vote: Tom


    I don't know if this was addressed but was this an RVS vote for Atog? This is his only post and is a naked vote on Tom if it isn't an RVS vote.

    Quote from elijah »
    well

    i think there's 0-1 wolves in tom, re, and grape. dont want to look in there, dont want to really talm there, but id appreciate their consistent thoughts.

    i thought vaimes and tsjw or whatever his name had good entrances as well. sort of a level 1 read, but yk, i'm chilling on it.

    /vote kamikaze
    think his entrance was meh, think his content early on was meh, think his play is detached and is a good center piece for scumteams. realistically this just an easy wolf hit to set us up for further days if it hits right though i'm thinking of hitting somebody wolfy af but also who's got a lot of associatives.

    also fuwa's entrance pinged me a little, and i'm gonna read into em more. i only read first two pages, might read more, but i'm kind of struggling in life rn but dont want to replace out of my first game here.

    Super wishy washy post.

    I like that Tom is asking questions and following up on them. He's not doing the "ask questions to appear busy" thing. Specifically looking at his interactions with Elijah.

    And directly after I liked Tom's interaction there is this post from Rod
    Quote from Rodemy »
    I was super suspicious if Tom like twice that I can remember. right now, after a few of his posts, he isn’t contributing much to the game and it’s starting to irk me.

    unvote
    Vote tom

    While I wouldn't say that Tom is contributing a lot, he is contributing. So this post seems out of place.

    Quote from Rodemy »
    I’ll post one tomorrow

    Gotta make sure this is followed up on.

    I really like 246 from RE. He is looking at the questions being asked and thinking about the purpose of them. This is a good post.

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Highroller, Elijah, and Ruma can all be town till further notice.

    My gut wants to put Vaimes, RE, and EtR there as well but I'm not going to listen to it yet.

    Curious as to why you think Elijah is town?

    @TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - what is a deep clear (post 285)

    I'm not confident on my vote on Kami anymore so

    Unvote KamikazeArchon

    His posts have felt a lot better since he dropped the Rod issue. I don't feel like I'm on the same page as some of you guys with Elijah.

    Vote Elijah

    His posts were wishy-washy and non-commital.
    Here he's doing the same thing. He calls out stuff Rodemy is doing, then says he likes KA better after he dropped the Rodemy thing and moves to Elijah for making a wishy-washy post.

    Then he sort of latches onto Fuwa for the rest of the day. He says he thinks Fuwa's vote on Rodemy is a bus (which, like, it could be, but EtR isn't voting Rodemy at this juncture either and is trying to get Fuwa as a counterwagon to Rodemy while saying Fuwa is bussing him... then later on he says he thinks Rodemy is just bad town. He spends literally the rest of the day indirectly defending him and trying to derail his wagon onto Fuwa.)

    I almost don't even want to comment on the rest of his iso, it's pretty much what DV said only most of it isn't really AI in my opinion. I guess it's like, A Thing that he's been at the same handful of players for scum, maybe he just thinks those are the mislynches he can get and he's gunning for them hard. But like. Town can get pretty tunnelly too. The main thing for me is this Rodemy progression.

    Vote: EtR
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from Tubba Fett »
    It’s a play style. I responded immaturely and didn’t think it through at the time properly. I view it now as kind of a “scorched earth” policy. Rattle everyone’s tree and see what falls down. I thought he was scum in PlayStation because of it, but I just wanted him to be. I think D_V is at best neutral this game. PlayStation D_V was abrasive and aggressive, but pursued things while doing so. Ghostbusters D_V seems like they’re just discrediting others without having a direction to take the game. Town D_V should be dragging us kicking and screaming somewhere? I don’t know.
    I mean, he's certainly trying to drag us kicking and screaming somewhere. I think your description of what you expect his town meta to be matches pretty closely to his play, I just also happen to know the same thing lies well within his wheelhouse as a wolf. But how do you square your proposed meta reading of DV with your apparent light scum read?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Shrugs

    You're entitled to your opinion, or you're a wolf trying desperately to ship me as buddies with random people. First I'm with zdt because Fuwa was voting twice in a votecount and I didn't catch it, now I'm a wolf with EtR even though we're both off wagon because I misread ZD's name as EtR. Like. Is this some kind of weird burden of proficiency read where I'm supposed to be more careful if I'm town or something? What is your read, exactly, other than "you're scum lol"?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from D_V »
    Quote from EtR »
    I'm honestly not sure where to go in this game. It feels like there has been a gradual steering away from ZD by multiple people. DV/ZD should be resolved. As far as not pushing an agenda, I've put together several cases and I haven't gotten much traction so I'm kinda meh at this point.

    Why is there a DV/ZD thing exactly? I feel like people are pushing a false argument here. He pushed me, but that doesn't mean that we need to be resolved there is almost nothing that makes us a dichotomy.

    Unvote
    Hmm. My bad, thought this post said EtR not ZD for some reason.

    Anyway, yeah, EtR read is one of the ones I intend on explaining before deadline. Probably even do him first because right now it's just kind of a strong gut feeling and I want to go back and try to like, verbalize why I think he's town.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from Rumanshi »
    Silver: Name two people
    DV and Vaimes.

    Will you explain how this is anything other than busywork?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    I'm here, but. Sorry Vaimes, this is about what you're getting out of me. School started and I'm pretty busy, so like. Yeah.

    @DV: There's a tri-chotomy between me, you, and EtR if you believe there must be a wolf not on Rodemy at the EoD1. That's why it's you or EtR for me, though I don't super strongly believe that there must be one off wagon since fuwa slot was on wagon and not off wagon. Literally everyone else off wagon is dead, so.

    @whoever said I was demoralized, I'm not demoralized, just busy. If you can't let me endgame because I can only post once or twice every 48 hours, I guess that's a thing, but I'm not just going to roll over for it.

    Currently at, like, Ruma > zdt > Tubba > Vaimes > Vezok for Rodemy bussers, for whatever that's worth.

    I'd lynch zdt over not lynching but would prefer Ruma first to give him a chance to prove his role. If he's a wolf and they no kill to "prove" his ability we still get an extra lynch out of it.

    I'd still lynch DV, he's the most likely wolf off-wagon.

    I'll try to expound my reads in some greater detail before deadline but I can't promise anything.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from Tubba Fett »
    Quote from Vaimes »
    And it’s like.

    Is he doing this on purpose to keep interactions to a minimum? I thought his Day 1 was pretty towny and now he’s just posting votes and being cryptic.

    What was towny about his Day 1? He’s just seemed like a nonentity to me.
    /barn.

    I reread the wagon, guess Fuwa could've been a bus too. Of course, that just means that either DV or EtR is a wolf-off-wagon or all of Rodemy's partners bussed him. It's probably either DV or no one, so like, 2-3 in [Vezok/Fuwa/Ruma/Tubba/Vaimes] in no particular order?

    Still think Fuwa's self resolving though, so like. Eh.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from D_V »
    Whoops. Fuwa's voting twice in that vote count, apparently, and I glossed over her name on the wagon. Will have to check which is correct when I get back to a PC and reassess, I guess.
    Rolleyes

    You can check the post for yourself, unless you think I can modify Cantrip's comments somehow. Fuwa's voting twice.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Whoops. Fuwa's voting twice in that vote count, apparently, and I glossed over her name on the wagon. Will have to check which is correct when I get back to a PC and reassess, I guess.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    @Tom: fuwa was voting Terry at EoD, not Rodemy. He voted Rodemy, yeah, but he wasn't on the lynch wagon.

    @DV: Not sure what you're getting at, exactly. If you'd like to present a case for why me and zdt are wolves together, feel free, 'cause I'm pretty sure we aren't.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Quote from Rumanshi »
    Finally, somebody actually decided to deal with it, rather than just go on this weird off putting rampage. How was it bussy? I voted Rodemy for an extremely legitimite reason - He gave up on defending. If there's one thing I would do as town, it's if I'm about to be lynched it's do as much work as I can. Rodemy didn't. This was not a bus - you need to find the reasons for voting to do vote analysis correctly mateeeey~~~
    I know the "reasons", yours was just super weak. Like, it's a fine reason, perfectly justifiable, except that the timing and lack of progression make it potentially a bus. Rodemy was obviously going down by that point, and by not ponying up under the threat of being lynched he invited pretty much everyone to vote him for the reason you voted him. Easiest vote ever regardless of your alignment.

    Everyone else on that wagon other than Tubba and Vaimes is either probably NKA with Rodemy or is dead, and there's probably two wolves on the Rodemy wagon. You can claim it's Vezok, if you'd like, but that still leaves 1 in [you / Tubba / Vaimes], so...

    Quote from Rumanshi »
    Can't amaze you if you don't start targeting me. This is how I RUMBLEEEE~ Come at me, come at me. Show me what you got. Tell me how scummy I am, tell me how nothing I do can be towny. Let's find it~ Let's find the final countdown. Gut town reads explained like that could be scummy~ Pocketing due to having the info as scum~

    My play is designed to be underwhelming Smile
    Yeah, can we not? I prefer to avoid rumbling when possible, it brings out the worst in me. Also, yep, totally trying to pocket EtR by barely sparing him a sentence long read and not talking to him or about him at all.

    Quote from tomsloger »
    i mean not that i disagree theres few worlds where rod didny get bussed but

    How are you eliminating fuwa slot?

    How likely do you think multiple bussers?
    Fuwa slot is self resolving, figure he'll likely be dead or there'll be a missing kill by D5 if he's for real, otherwise we can lynch him then. If he dies then we can lynch DV.

    Multiple bussers is pretty much guaranteed unless there's only two wolves left... It'd have to be exactly DV+zds or something with EtR. Since there hasn't been an SK kill yet I'm guessing there's 4 wolves, so... there's probably another busser. Could be Vezok, maybe, or Vaimes+Tubba/Vaimes+Ruma. Would like to find the first one though before I start down that path.

    Quote from Tubba Fett »
    @EtR
    I’d like to hear more on your D_V read. I’m waffling there as I think the flip would reveal a fair bit about the game, flavour wise, role and power wise. That said, I can’t point to anything outright scummy. Thoughts?
    How do you expect to get information about roles and power level from a flip that contains nothing but a name and an alignment?
    Hmm. I'd rather lynch someone who was on the Rodemy wagon, I think, but it looks like we're pretty dead set on lynching off wagon. Leaning towards voting DV over zdt if it comes down to it, I guess. I don't really have reads on either of them at the moment; DV is always a hard read because I always think he's scum, and zdt hasn't had a real presence that I remember. Fuwa even less so.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    So I had pretty big post but it's gone now. RIP.

    I did the Rodemy iso but he spent basically the entire time he was playing talking about tom and Highroller to the exclusion of everyone else. He barely even reacted to other players mentioning him. Pretty sure they're both spewed; both progressions are pretty weird and not really partner/partner.

    The rest of the post was looking at the evolution of the Rodemy wagon from 1.4 to EoD. Had bunches of colored wagons and stuff, but I'm out of time so I'll just give you the EoD wagon and quick highlights from the evolution of it.

    EoD 1 Votecount
    Rodemy (9): Highroller, vezokpiraka, KamikazeArchon, Fuwa, Rumanshi, Tubba Fett, tomsloger, Grapefruit21, Vaimes
    tomsloger (1): Atogaholic
    elijah (1): RE1031
    Fuwa (2): EtR, elijah
    TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Fuwa
    KamikazeArchon (2): Rhand, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry

    Not Voting (1): Rodemy

    Vaimes left the Rodemy wagon once Rodemy got some traction, then came back for the hammer.

    Ruma and Tubba both joined the wagon pretty late, and with pretty weak votes.

    If there's a busser on Rodemy (and there almost certainly is at least one) it's probably one of them. Second busser could be Vezok, I suppose?

    Off wagon it's pretty much just DV (r. elijah) or EtR. I have a gut town read on EtR that I can't really explain properly, so it's either DV or all of Rod's partners are on him. I guess you could say it's me if you want to, but I know it isn't, so.

    Vote: Rumanshi

    Very underwhelmed by his play so far, plus probable Rodemy busser. Still waiting to be amazed three days later.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ghostbusters Mafia - Night 3: Going, Gozer, Gone
    Also, yeah, tom's neutral thing isn't really a slip, Vezok brought up neutrals before anyone else and said it was definitely Kami after saying the 3rd party role was a ninja, tom just agreed that it made some kind of sense. I guess you could make the argument that he kept saying Kami was probably a neutral after that which meant he "knows" there's one but it doesn't seem all that persuasive.
    Posted in: Mafia
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