Match 1: Kept hand of seven with; gaveleer, aid, 2 land and 2 0 drops. Got hit my goblin guides early, managed to eventually hit back with gaveleer for 9 before it got blasted by two goblin grenades. Didn't draw anything else of use and lost soon after.
Sideboarded: 3 ethereal haze and 3 dispatch
Match 2: Kept hand of mentor, 4 land, 1 repeal and 0 drop. Drew two ethereal haze first few turns which limited damage for 2 turns. Managed to get mentor out and sadly only 1 token. Had to block goblin instigator and guide with mentor and token, then got overrun due to a shared animosity and numerous little goblins.
Game 2 vs infect 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand with gaveleer, 2 land, 2 repeal and remaining 0 drops. Managed to return a pumped glistened elf to opponents hand but eventually got beaten down by another elf and ink moth.
Sideboarded: 3 dispatch
Match 2: Mulliganed to 6 and kept hand of dispatch, mox, gaveleer, ornithopter and remaining 0 drops. No land! Dispatched first glistened elf, played gaveleer and drew into another dispatch. Misplayed second dispatch before opponent played vines of vastwood and gaveleer died. Didn't manage to come back from my mistake and lost two turns later.
Game 3 vs Tron 0-2
Match 1: kept hand of seven with paladin, 2 land, repeal, mox and remaining 0 drops. Drew a few cards off paladin but fizzled. Paladin promptly got exiled and didn't manage to recover. Did manage to get mentor out with 4 tokens but they all got blitzed.
Sideboarded: 1 erayo and 2 wear/tear
Match 2: mulled to five with no land. Bad choice. Kept mox, wear/tear, gaveleer and 0 drops. Didn't draw anything of use and succumbed to wurmcoil engine.
Game 4 vs Storm 2-0
Match 1: kept hand with paladin and won with grapeshot turn two. Deck worked perfectly!
Sideboarded: 2 leyline and 2 emerge unscathed
Match 2: both of us started with leylines on the board. I had hand with paladin and gaveleer. Managed to win on turn two with a massive gaveleer. Deck worked excellently again!
Had a great day but kept some really sketchy hands as well as misplaying a fair bit - definitely learnt a few lessons. As I said in my previous post I played two games against each of these decks after the logged games and didn't lose! Very frustrating.
Well.... Wondered where the hell everyone had gone as the last thread had a lot of contributors. Glad I managed to find the primer - which looks great Lakor, good effort.
Unfortunately I don't have time now to go into the details, but played at my first PPTQ with my old deck list. Safe to say it didn't go well. Kept some match reports and will post these up this weekend.... Think most of my errors were down to keep bad hands. That said, every opponent I played against we played two casual games after, where I didn't lose one! Go figure.
Hatebear has to be in the unfavoured matches section! & IMO D&T should be to.
CoCo and any creature Toolbox decks are IMO favoured; they are too busy concentrating on trying to get their thing to work allowing you the freedom to set your WinCon up. Post SB these decks can become more tricky.
All the Hand Disruption decks can be countered through 4 Leyline of Sanctity in the SB; for me post SB they are even match ups.
Burn is horrendous not for the creature blitz which all be it is bad! Its for the 4 MB Eidolon of the Great Revel.
This is exactly why I asked others for their input. I've only played Hatebears twice and both games I won on turn 2, so hardly a true representation of the match up. Hence why I put it as Even. If putting as Unfavoured is a better reflection I'm happy for the change.
Similarly I've played CoCo several times and it's always ended badly for me. That's why I have [card]batwing brume[card] in my sideboard.
Agreed about Eidolon. I will add this card to the description, just didn't have time.
Any deck with a slow build-up suits our style of play. We ideally look to combo on either turn 2/3, so facing a deck that takes until turn 4/5 to get their win condition is always favourable.
Ad Nauseum This deck is relatively slow and usually takes until turn 4/5 to get its win condition. Be wary of casting grapeshot too early as the opponent is likely to have angel's grace in hand. Living End This deck relies on clearing the board, but isn't that fast. The tempo of our deck is usually quicker but may struggle late game if too many lands or paladin get sacrificed. Tooth and Nail This decks early game is all about searching for lands until they can play tooth and nail, searching for Emrakul. It also uses Valakut as an alternative win condition with Primeval Titan. The decks build up is slow, so if we can combo early then we have a good chance of winning. Tron This deck has a slow build up, which suits our deck. The longer the game goes on the worse it gets. Griselhoalband
Even:
A lot of decks can be considered as an even match up, as they take a similar time to combo/achieve win condition. Or, they have single threats that can be dealt with early game.
8 Rack This deck relies on keeping your hand empty and milling. Playing lots of 0 cost equipments means we can empty our hand rapidly, main point is to try and not fizzle. Infect If you can deal with the early threat then this match up is fairly even. Bogles CoCo Hatebear This deck usually takes a while to get going. Ensuring an early combo is the best strategy. Affinity Merfolk Death and Taxes Storm
Unfavoured:
Decks that are extremely aggressive or disrupt our hand are going to difficult to play against. Losing a paladin from either our hand our the board significantly reduces our chances of winning.
Jund This decks hand disruption is difficult to combat. Keeping a paladin in hand, then successfully playing and keeping it alive is tricky. Burn (Naya etc...) Any aggro deck is tricky to play against as it is fast and blitzes your creatures. Grixis Similar to Jund, hand disruption is difficult to deal with.
These are based on my experience playing, happy for people to swap things around. I haven't played against Bant, KiKi and a few others so can't comment.
Also, apologies for not completing this, but I started this when I thought I had lots of time, but had to rush. I will edit in the next few days.
Yes it may die to a bolt, but if you have a sigarda's aid out and can easily play a cathar's shield or accorder's shield to keep it alive... As you say though, testing will be key. Think I'm favouring contraband King over this, purely for fixing your draw every 0 drop.
'Scuse my ignorance, but with contraband kingpin I am assuming you can choose how to stack the triggers to ensure you scry before you draw off paladin's trigger?
Did some play testing last night. Opted to play without sideboards to see how the matches went.
Match 1 vs Infect 2-0
Game 1 - kept a really strong hand with both gaveleer and paladin. Ended up using gaveleer as chump blocker, but used paladin on turn 3 to play mentor and spew lots of tokens. Also managed to repeal a glistner elf - very useful on turn 2 against infect.
Game 2 - mulled to 6 and kept a hand with paladin. Took 5 poison counters on turn 2 and combo off paladin my second turn. Didn't draw grapeshot, but got a gaveleer and mass hysteria out and slang for 26.
Match 2 vs Naya burn 0-2
Game 1 - had a really poor starting hand. All artefacts! Mulled to 5 just so that I could play something. Played a gaveleer which got bolted. Played a paladin which got bolted. In hindsight I should've held onto paladin, but was losing life rapidly. Eventually got beaten down by swiftspears and nacatls.
Game 2 - again, really poor opening hand but decided to keep. Never really did anything and proceeded to lose life really rapidly.
General notes: I realise the obvious benefits of having sigarda's aid in the deck, but I don't think any of my games I've felt like it has given me an advantage. I'm assuming the best scenario is having it in your opening hand with a gaveleer, or using it to protect paladin - anyone else found it is invaluable? Keen to hear how others have got on with it.
Also, wondering if a single twisted image or boros charm have a place in the deck. Anyone tried these?
I'm thinking of the image because I often end up with a 2/16 paladin which I can't do a lot with. Also allows you to draw a card. Boros charm could be really useful to protect any creatures, or give gaveleer double strike as he already has trample. Or, even a finisher if you can't quite do critical with grapeshot or gaveleer....
Finally, thinking of swapping my batwing brume for holy day in sideboard. Purely because I am more likely to have 1 spare mana than 2.
Played a little bit of casual last night. Only ended up playing infect and decided to do best of 5. Won 3-0.
Game 1: kept hand of 7 with paladin in hand and combo on turn two.
Game 2: mulled to hand of 6 to keep paladin. This succumbed to abrupt decay once I had drawn three cards off 0 drops. Drew into Mentor, took 8 poison counters on turn 3 and eventually managed to beat him down with monk tokens.
Game 3: mulled to hand of 6 with two serum visions. Fixed my draw and played paladin on turn 3 and combo.
Not best match reports as had a few beers and was too busy chatting, but deck worked really well. Liked having serum visions to fix draw. Will try and get some more testing in on Monday.
Lakor - sounds like you had perfect hand in your match up. Pray you get that in a comp!
So, I have revised the deck slightly from my previous list. Was hoping to get some testing in this FNM but can't make it. Got a few friends coming over to play casual so will report back - they play infect, BW Taxes etc.
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Accorder's Shield
3 Spidersilk Net
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Mox Opal
Other equips
1 Golem-skin Gauntlets
1 Basilisk Collar
Creatures
4 Puresteel Paladin
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Ornithopter
3 Goblin Gaveleer
Spells/enchant
1 Mass Hysteria
2 Sigarda's Aid
4 Repeal
4 Retract
1 Noxious Revival
2 Serum Visions
1 Grapeshot
1 Godless Shrine
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear // Tear
2 Emerge Unscathed
3 Dispatch
1 Molten Nursery
1 Grid
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Erayo
Game 1 vs 8-whack 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand of seven with; gaveleer, aid, 2 land and 2 0 drops. Got hit my goblin guides early, managed to eventually hit back with gaveleer for 9 before it got blasted by two goblin grenades. Didn't draw anything else of use and lost soon after.
Sideboarded: 3 ethereal haze and 3 dispatch
Match 2: Kept hand of mentor, 4 land, 1 repeal and 0 drop. Drew two ethereal haze first few turns which limited damage for 2 turns. Managed to get mentor out and sadly only 1 token. Had to block goblin instigator and guide with mentor and token, then got overrun due to a shared animosity and numerous little goblins.
Game 2 vs infect 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand with gaveleer, 2 land, 2 repeal and remaining 0 drops. Managed to return a pumped glistened elf to opponents hand but eventually got beaten down by another elf and ink moth.
Sideboarded: 3 dispatch
Match 2: Mulliganed to 6 and kept hand of dispatch, mox, gaveleer, ornithopter and remaining 0 drops. No land! Dispatched first glistened elf, played gaveleer and drew into another dispatch. Misplayed second dispatch before opponent played vines of vastwood and gaveleer died. Didn't manage to come back from my mistake and lost two turns later.
Game 3 vs Tron 0-2
Match 1: kept hand of seven with paladin, 2 land, repeal, mox and remaining 0 drops. Drew a few cards off paladin but fizzled. Paladin promptly got exiled and didn't manage to recover. Did manage to get mentor out with 4 tokens but they all got blitzed.
Sideboarded: 1 erayo and 2 wear/tear
Match 2: mulled to five with no land. Bad choice. Kept mox, wear/tear, gaveleer and 0 drops. Didn't draw anything of use and succumbed to wurmcoil engine.
Game 4 vs Storm 2-0
Match 1: kept hand with paladin and won with grapeshot turn two. Deck worked perfectly!
Sideboarded: 2 leyline and 2 emerge unscathed
Match 2: both of us started with leylines on the board. I had hand with paladin and gaveleer. Managed to win on turn two with a massive gaveleer. Deck worked excellently again!
Had a great day but kept some really sketchy hands as well as misplaying a fair bit - definitely learnt a few lessons. As I said in my previous post I played two games against each of these decks after the logged games and didn't lose! Very frustrating.
Unfortunately I don't have time now to go into the details, but played at my first PPTQ with my old deck list. Safe to say it didn't go well. Kept some match reports and will post these up this weekend.... Think most of my errors were down to keep bad hands. That said, every opponent I played against we played two casual games after, where I didn't lose one! Go figure.
In the meantime I have created a new deck which focuses back on the combo elements of the deck. Again, will post a deck list up this weekend, but it includes the introduction of contraband kingpin, spell pierce, twisted image, serum visions and gitaxian probe to main. And, inquisition of koziliek and surgical extraction to sideboard.
I really like the idea of the new deck lists that are going up so will have a look at these too.
Glad to be back
This is exactly why I asked others for their input. I've only played Hatebears twice and both games I won on turn 2, so hardly a true representation of the match up. Hence why I put it as Even. If putting as Unfavoured is a better reflection I'm happy for the change.
Similarly I've played CoCo several times and it's always ended badly for me. That's why I have [card]batwing brume[card] in my sideboard.
Agreed about Eidolon. I will add this card to the description, just didn't have time.
Favoured:
Any deck with a slow build-up suits our style of play. We ideally look to combo on either turn 2/3, so facing a deck that takes until turn 4/5 to get their win condition is always favourable.
Ad Nauseum This deck is relatively slow and usually takes until turn 4/5 to get its win condition. Be wary of casting grapeshot too early as the opponent is likely to have angel's grace in hand.
Living End This deck relies on clearing the board, but isn't that fast. The tempo of our deck is usually quicker but may struggle late game if too many lands or paladin get sacrificed.
Tooth and Nail This decks early game is all about searching for lands until they can play tooth and nail, searching for Emrakul. It also uses Valakut as an alternative win condition with Primeval Titan. The decks build up is slow, so if we can combo early then we have a good chance of winning.
Tron This deck has a slow build up, which suits our deck. The longer the game goes on the worse it gets.
Griselhoalband
Even:
A lot of decks can be considered as an even match up, as they take a similar time to combo/achieve win condition. Or, they have single threats that can be dealt with early game.
8 Rack This deck relies on keeping your hand empty and milling. Playing lots of 0 cost equipments means we can empty our hand rapidly, main point is to try and not fizzle.
Infect If you can deal with the early threat then this match up is fairly even.
Bogles
CoCo
Hatebear This deck usually takes a while to get going. Ensuring an early combo is the best strategy.
Affinity
Merfolk
Death and Taxes
Storm
Unfavoured:
Decks that are extremely aggressive or disrupt our hand are going to difficult to play against. Losing a paladin from either our hand our the board significantly reduces our chances of winning.
Jund This decks hand disruption is difficult to combat. Keeping a paladin in hand, then successfully playing and keeping it alive is tricky.
Burn (Naya etc...) Any aggro deck is tricky to play against as it is fast and blitzes your creatures.
Grixis Similar to Jund, hand disruption is difficult to deal with.
These are based on my experience playing, happy for people to swap things around. I haven't played against Bant, KiKi and a few others so can't comment.
Also, apologies for not completing this, but I started this when I thought I had lots of time, but had to rush. I will edit in the next few days.
If you need any help with the primer just shout.
Seen another spoiler, reckless fireweaver looks like a cheaper version of molten nursery. And, obviously a creature instead of an enchantment.
Thanks
Match 1 vs Infect 2-0
Game 1 - kept a really strong hand with both gaveleer and paladin. Ended up using gaveleer as chump blocker, but used paladin on turn 3 to play mentor and spew lots of tokens. Also managed to repeal a glistner elf - very useful on turn 2 against infect.
Game 2 - mulled to 6 and kept a hand with paladin. Took 5 poison counters on turn 2 and combo off paladin my second turn. Didn't draw grapeshot, but got a gaveleer and mass hysteria out and slang for 26.
Match 2 vs Naya burn 0-2
Game 1 - had a really poor starting hand. All artefacts! Mulled to 5 just so that I could play something. Played a gaveleer which got bolted. Played a paladin which got bolted. In hindsight I should've held onto paladin, but was losing life rapidly. Eventually got beaten down by swiftspears and nacatls.
Game 2 - again, really poor opening hand but decided to keep. Never really did anything and proceeded to lose life really rapidly.
General notes: I realise the obvious benefits of having sigarda's aid in the deck, but I don't think any of my games I've felt like it has given me an advantage. I'm assuming the best scenario is having it in your opening hand with a gaveleer, or using it to protect paladin - anyone else found it is invaluable? Keen to hear how others have got on with it.
Also, wondering if a single twisted image or boros charm have a place in the deck. Anyone tried these?
I'm thinking of the image because I often end up with a 2/16 paladin which I can't do a lot with. Also allows you to draw a card. Boros charm could be really useful to protect any creatures, or give gaveleer double strike as he already has trample. Or, even a finisher if you can't quite do critical with grapeshot or gaveleer....
Finally, thinking of swapping my batwing brume for holy day in sideboard. Purely because I am more likely to have 1 spare mana than 2.
Really hope my upcoming tournmaent fairs slightly better, got until 02 October though.
Game 1: kept hand of 7 with paladin in hand and combo on turn two.
Game 2: mulled to hand of 6 to keep paladin. This succumbed to abrupt decay once I had drawn three cards off 0 drops. Drew into Mentor, took 8 poison counters on turn 3 and eventually managed to beat him down with monk tokens.
Game 3: mulled to hand of 6 with two serum visions. Fixed my draw and played paladin on turn 3 and combo.
Not best match reports as had a few beers and was too busy chatting, but deck worked really well. Liked having serum visions to fix draw. Will try and get some more testing in on Monday.
Lakor - sounds like you had perfect hand in your match up. Pray you get that in a comp!
4 Accorder's Shield
3 Spidersilk Net
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Mox Opal
1 Golem-skin Gauntlets
1 Basilisk Collar
Creature
4 Puresteel Paladin
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Ornithopter
3 Goblin Gaveleer
Enchant
1 Mass Hysteria
2 Sigarda's Aid
4 Repeal
4 Retract
1 Noxious Revival
2 Serum Visions
1 Grapeshot
Land
1 Godless Shrine
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear // Tear
2 Emerge Unscathed
3 Dispatch
1 Molten Nursery
1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
3 Batwing Brume
1 Leonin Elder