despite its ability to beat down, I fell short a few times. The deck however is fun as heck. I am not a fan of Eternal Scourge. But since the deck is built around Eldrazi Mimic, I wanted a solid t3 devoid creature. Maybe I could switch them out with Lathnu Helion. There are many times a t2 Mimic can be followed by a t3 Forerunner or Scrounger. But removing devoid creatures weakens Mimic's effectiveness.
Meanwhile I am brewing a B/g Eldrazi list to try out
Why wouldn't you run matter reshaper? it's a perfect curve card that replenishes itself or cantrips at the very least when it dies.
So I was able to pick up the last few cards I needed to finish my deck for the gameday on Sunday. I'll post up results and matchups if I can remember to write them down.
Well the gameday only had 9 players but 4 of the 9 are very good running variants of the top tier netdecks.
Match 1 vs. homebrew RW artifact aggro. Loss 1-2
This wasn't the netdeck, he was running built to smash, built to last, thraben inspectors, Thalia, cultivators and skysovereign. Game 1 I flooded out but stablized late and had the match down to a 4-3 life game. Opponent top-decked a fleetwheel cruise for the win. Brought in the harsh scrutiny and lost legacy for a copter and 4 Transgress. Scrutinied a thalia on turn 1, dropped mimic t2 which he left alone. reshaper came out turn 3 and he chumped the mimic with an inspector. T4 mindbender saccing the reshaper, which triggered another reshaper. Opponent was so busy chump blocking, he didn't have any board presence for the rest of the game. Reality Smasher turn 5 sealed the game and he scooped. Game 3, mulliganed to 5 cards, and we each has some smaller creatures on the board (I had a scrounger, and two mimics, and he had a an exemplar, gisela and something else. I was at 12, he was at 6. I let him take back a sky sovereign play, and he had a built to last in hand for the match. I could have been a stickler for the rules, but it's for fun right? Entry was free and no prizes except the mat and promos
Match 2 vs. Esper Control Win 2-0
Game 1 was easy, I curved out (mimic, reshaper, thot knot, smasher, smasher) and he had a single stasis snare on my thot knot.
Sideboarded out four spatial contortion and a warping wail for lost legacy and ruinous path.
He was able to snare a reshaper, I warping wailed an eldrazi scion on his end step the next turn. Crewed a copter to attack and then sacced it for the 5th mana (missed the land drop) for the 5th mana to emerge a mindbender using the scrapheap scrounger. This hit his gideon and oath of liliana. Smasher next turn was the nail in the coffin.
Match 3 vs. American Dynavolt Control (This guy won the gameday the previous day with this deck) Win 2-0
Game 1, I had 3 spatial contortion in hand with a mimic. I didn't draw any other creatures until turn 8. He had 2 dynavolts on the field and had 8 energy by turn 5. After 3 counters in a row, he threw down a torrential gearhulk and countered a fourth creature I played. It was just a matter of time, but the gearhulk's body was just too big with all the mana he had open every turn and his card draw.
This was tough to sideboard out as dynavolt and gearhulks are artifacts, so lost legacy is an almost dead card, and he didn't run any planeswalkers mainboard. I ended up sideboarding in two lost legacy to maybe hit some of his counters and sided out 2 warping wails as he ran no sorceries.
Game 2
Opponent allowed me to resolve a matter reshaper, and tapped out to play dynavolt. I mindbender'ed his torrential gearhulk and anticipate. he drew 2 lands in a row, and my next turn I dropped a thought knot. He responded by hitting my mindbender harnessed lightning, but drew a counter. I dropped 2 smashers to end the game.
Game 3 started out with 6 turns of counters. scrounger was brought back 2 times (exiling mimic then a thought knot. Mindbender was summary of dismissalled, so scrounger was brought back a third time. This was his last card. I drew 3 reality smashers in a row and that ended the game pretty quickly.
At this point, one guy was undefeated and that was the end of the event. Notes that I kept in the back of my head was that I either had 4 energy and 5 swamps by the time the game ended, or only a single black source and couldn't cast a mindbender on turn 4 or even 5. The only enchantment removal the deck has is via hand disruption. I am still up in the air as to whether or not we need some sort of enchantment removal. The copters are great for early game, however lategame, they are a dead draw. If you play any deck with even a small amount of spot removal, you will not be able to crew the copter unless you drop one on turn 2 or 3 at the latest. After that, you really want to drop a thought knot or reality smasher instead. I will continue to test and update the thread as time goes on. At this point I need a few more games to determine what other cards if any need to be put in here.
So I was able to pick up the last few cards I needed to finish my deck for the gameday on Sunday. I'll post up results and matchups if I can remember to write them down.
Personally I find 10 swamps is about right for enough black sources for a T3 flaying tendrils or T4 distended mindbender. So far only Lackey tampers with the manabase via shuffling. In practice with actual cards, I haven't had many issues with mana.
Personally, I'd go with Bearer of Silence, the card absolutely wrecks green decks. There's plenty of other options though. World Breaker seems pretty intriguing to me against blue control, it's pretty much impossible for them to deal with unless they have Void Shatter.
I'd also consider some number of Blighted Fen in the main. SGW isn't good in multiples so I probably wouldn't run 4, and edicts are good enough in certain matchups that I think it warrants inclusion.
I actually took those out foe the scrounger. Against control, I definitely see the appeal still. And as I was actually pulling the cards out of the sleeves, I was going to remove the 2 blighted fens I had in there and had the same idea about the SGW. I am keeping only 2 SGW because of the 2 blighted fens already in there.
@Mindz I like your list, but why run Wastes instead of more Aether Hub, Crossroads, and SGW? There's nothing in your list that benefits from having more basics.
You're right. All I did was update the list and I have no idea why I never really looked at the land base with that type of scrutiny before. Any suggestions for the last 4 sideboard cards?
I piloted a monoB eldrazi deck to win the BFZ gameday that was this exact idea. Haven't changed it until Kaladesh came out as I had time to get back into playing it. I tweaked it to deal with the surge of aggro decks running rampant now. The copter can cycle through cards you don't want as you play your creatures without haste, Scrounger coming back turn after turn is a pain for your opponent to deal with, forcing your opponents to decide whether or not to kill your mimic or your scrounger. Mindbender saccing reshaper is your ideal target and provides some great hand disruption turn 4. Every time I play smasher, it's a windmill. It is very hard to deal with when it hits the field.
Since this thread is moving more than the other one and they haven't been merged, I'll post my deck here also. I've been testing this decklist since Lackey was updated and have had great success. I haven't played any MBA with it yet, nor GR monsters, but against everything else, this stabilizes and gets the upperhand quite consistantly.
I noticed that with RUG and UW and UR control, ensoul artifact is used on fliers, or protection is used (ornithopter, Herald, stormbreath dragon, blue 1/1 unblockable, etc). So walls/defenders didn't really help without reach. My sideboard is full of sweepers, with some extra exiling for Citadel or Gods.
I also found that reclamation sage doesn't help against gods, and only really works against ornithopter, mutavault or haunted platemail which only really is played in the UW/UR/RUG control with ensoul artifact.
Usually I'm a U/W, UB or Esper control player, but with 2015, Green has really intrigued me. I created a thread after searching unsuccessfully for your thread. Here's my take on the deck. I haven't tested it yet, but this is the paper-built deck for now. I will be testing it this weekend with proxies to see how it works.
I'll let you know how it goes come monday. I may end up putting vraska in and changing the numbers of each PW if steadfast becomes a win/more card as TabooTapeworm says.
I didn't remember Battletide Alchemist. Thanks for the suggestion. Cabal archon for killing blows if the opponent was down to 5 or so life. Just extra little jabs. That DOES seem weak considering I don't have rotlung. They come out.
Whipgrass helps against swarm decks with overrun like ezuri elves or craterhoof type effects. Since that's very circumstantial and I have ghostly prisons in the side board, I won't miss it.
After rethinking the deck a little bit, here's the 60 cards that I was able to cut the deck down to.
I like it. Short, concise, very balanced. The only concern I have is that you only run 14 creatures. If you're playing against anything that runs arc lightning, or pyroclasm type effects, how do you expect to keep creatures like guttersnipe and pyromancer from getting killed off?
So I'm not sure which direction to take this deck. It's a casual deck with a sideboard (which is weird I know). I wanted to stray from the classic archetypes of infinite lifegain, scion of darkness and zombie clerics so I challenged myself to reinvent my cleric deck in a way that was fun to play but would offer people a new look or surprise them if they played against the deck in the old fashion.
Here's where I'm at so far, and I'm at a loss as to what to cut. Most of my decks nowadays are adaptive, and have some early game aggro, some midrange tricks, and late game bombs so it's well suited to compete against most types of decks, not just a couple like in standard. Casual is what really challenges the deckbuilder's way of thinking because there are so many deck archetypes and ideas that work very well.
This deck starts similar to Soul Sisters with 2 different kinds of 1 drop life gain opportunities and what cleric deck is worth it's salt with MoR? 2 drops contain suture priest and blood artist to protect and punish sweepers turn 4. High priest of penance is to set opponents back a turn if they attack into me, and help me stall until mid/late game. Bitterblossom is there just to basically get a flier each turn for free (thanks to soul sisters and suture priest, and if I have illness in the ranks out, dealing damage to my opponent and destroying spirit tokens) to block fliers.
Edgewalker helps me play cards for cheap/free which leaves my mana open for the ghostly prison ability of entangler. Once I get enough mana, or after a sweeper, I can play desolation angel and swing away while opponent struggles to build their landbase back up. If the board hasn't been swept by then, Edgewalker will allow me to continue to play clerics without mana.
Late game strategies include:
Dovescape: If I have creature advantage, it makes sense to play dovescape as anything that's not a creature gets turned into 1/1 birds and with illness out, it basically counters everything that isn't a creature. Creatures can be blocked by the beloved chaplain and neutered by master apothecary.
Angel of glory's rise is for after sweepers when I can bring back pretty much everything all at once, and with suture priests, it typically spells game over for my opponent bringing back 6 creatures with 2 of them being suture priest. Playing angel really is a momentum changer and sometimes game winner on paper.
That's my deck currently and I know I'm over the limit, but I don't know which direction to go to cut cards down. I've put a lot of time and effort into making this refresh something new and am excited to finish it. Any comments/thoughts/suggestions are much appreciated.
Played a phylactory lich deck who couldn't get past tamiyo either.
Finally played an Esper control deck that used aetherling and obzedat as wincons. That was rather difficult as he boarded in 4 illness in the ranks. Detention Sphere sideboarded in and when I drew a second iniative, the tokens were able to swing through Jace's +1 ability and take the game.
I have an 85%+ win ratio right now on lackey, but again, that's only lackey. I'll probably build the deck and take it to FNM next friday.
Glad Reckoner worked out. Not surprised about your results with Tajic.
In your colors Detention Sphere and burn are the best way to handle resolved walkers. Whatever the 2 mana counterspell is that hits noncreatures is also a viable option.
I just noticed arrest is in your sideboard, that should definitely be detention sphere if your manabase can support it. Even if it can't it should be 4 O-Rings, 0 Arrest.
4 Blind Obedience feels like overkill in the board as well. You aren't really running enough cheap spells to take advantage of extort.
Blue just isn't that apparant in my mana base to run D spheres consistantly, but I will be putting in more o rings as you're right, it hits more than just creatures. Blind Obedience is in for Red decks with haste/trample. Just to make sure that I can't get omgwtf'ed by a RDW or boros deck belching out their hand after a sweeper. The extort isn't necessary, but having a red creature come in tapped makes the game MUCH more manageable.
Why wouldn't you run matter reshaper? it's a perfect curve card that replenishes itself or cantrips at the very least when it dies.
Well the gameday only had 9 players but 4 of the 9 are very good running variants of the top tier netdecks.
Match 1 vs. homebrew RW artifact aggro. Loss 1-2
This wasn't the netdeck, he was running built to smash, built to last, thraben inspectors, Thalia, cultivators and skysovereign. Game 1 I flooded out but stablized late and had the match down to a 4-3 life game. Opponent top-decked a fleetwheel cruise for the win. Brought in the harsh scrutiny and lost legacy for a copter and 4 Transgress. Scrutinied a thalia on turn 1, dropped mimic t2 which he left alone. reshaper came out turn 3 and he chumped the mimic with an inspector. T4 mindbender saccing the reshaper, which triggered another reshaper. Opponent was so busy chump blocking, he didn't have any board presence for the rest of the game. Reality Smasher turn 5 sealed the game and he scooped. Game 3, mulliganed to 5 cards, and we each has some smaller creatures on the board (I had a scrounger, and two mimics, and he had a an exemplar, gisela and something else. I was at 12, he was at 6. I let him take back a sky sovereign play, and he had a built to last in hand for the match. I could have been a stickler for the rules, but it's for fun right? Entry was free and no prizes except the mat and promos
Match 2 vs. Esper Control Win 2-0
Game 1 was easy, I curved out (mimic, reshaper, thot knot, smasher, smasher) and he had a single stasis snare on my thot knot.
Sideboarded out four spatial contortion and a warping wail for lost legacy and ruinous path.
He was able to snare a reshaper, I warping wailed an eldrazi scion on his end step the next turn. Crewed a copter to attack and then sacced it for the 5th mana (missed the land drop) for the 5th mana to emerge a mindbender using the scrapheap scrounger. This hit his gideon and oath of liliana. Smasher next turn was the nail in the coffin.
Match 3 vs. American Dynavolt Control (This guy won the gameday the previous day with this deck) Win 2-0
Game 1, I had 3 spatial contortion in hand with a mimic. I didn't draw any other creatures until turn 8. He had 2 dynavolts on the field and had 8 energy by turn 5. After 3 counters in a row, he threw down a torrential gearhulk and countered a fourth creature I played. It was just a matter of time, but the gearhulk's body was just too big with all the mana he had open every turn and his card draw.
This was tough to sideboard out as dynavolt and gearhulks are artifacts, so lost legacy is an almost dead card, and he didn't run any planeswalkers mainboard. I ended up sideboarding in two lost legacy to maybe hit some of his counters and sided out 2 warping wails as he ran no sorceries.
Game 2
Opponent allowed me to resolve a matter reshaper, and tapped out to play dynavolt. I mindbender'ed his torrential gearhulk and anticipate. he drew 2 lands in a row, and my next turn I dropped a thought knot. He responded by hitting my mindbender harnessed lightning, but drew a counter. I dropped 2 smashers to end the game.
Game 3 started out with 6 turns of counters. scrounger was brought back 2 times (exiling mimic then a thought knot. Mindbender was summary of dismissalled, so scrounger was brought back a third time. This was his last card. I drew 3 reality smashers in a row and that ended the game pretty quickly.
At this point, one guy was undefeated and that was the end of the event. Notes that I kept in the back of my head was that I either had 4 energy and 5 swamps by the time the game ended, or only a single black source and couldn't cast a mindbender on turn 4 or even 5. The only enchantment removal the deck has is via hand disruption. I am still up in the air as to whether or not we need some sort of enchantment removal. The copters are great for early game, however lategame, they are a dead draw. If you play any deck with even a small amount of spot removal, you will not be able to crew the copter unless you drop one on turn 2 or 3 at the latest. After that, you really want to drop a thought knot or reality smasher instead. I will continue to test and update the thread as time goes on. At this point I need a few more games to determine what other cards if any need to be put in here.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Distended Mindbender
Spells:
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Warping Wail
4 Spatial Contortion
10 Swamp
1 Wastes
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Aether Hub
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Blighted Fen
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
3 Harsh Scrutiny
3 Ruinous Path
4 Bearer of Silence
I actually took those out foe the scrounger. Against control, I definitely see the appeal still. And as I was actually pulling the cards out of the sleeves, I was going to remove the 2 blighted fens I had in there and had the same idea about the SGW. I am keeping only 2 SGW because of the 2 blighted fens already in there.
You're right. All I did was update the list and I have no idea why I never really looked at the land base with that type of scrutiny before. Any suggestions for the last 4 sideboard cards?
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Distended Mindbender
Spells:
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Warping Wail
4 Spatial Contortion
10 Swamp
1 Wastes
4 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Aether Hub
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
3 Harsh Scrutiny
3 Ruinous Path
4 Undecided
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Distended Mindbender
Spells:
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Warping Wail
4 Spatial Contortion
10 Swamp
5 Wastes
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Aether Hub
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
2 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
3 Harsh Scrutiny
3 Ruinous Path
4 Undecided
what about U/W/X control was difficult? I haven't run into a good one, or my tweaks make that matchup almost and auto-win.
1 Genesis Hydra
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Polukranos, World Eater
Other Spells:
3 Raise the Alarm
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
1 The Chain Veil
3 Banishing Light
Planeswalkers:
4 Ajani Steadfast
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Liliana Vess
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
5 Forest
2 Plains
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Bile Blight
2 Deicide
1 Plummet
2 Unravel the Aether
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Silence the Believers
I noticed that with RUG and UW and UR control, ensoul artifact is used on fliers, or protection is used (ornithopter, Herald, stormbreath dragon, blue 1/1 unblockable, etc). So walls/defenders didn't really help without reach. My sideboard is full of sweepers, with some extra exiling for Citadel or Gods.
I also found that reclamation sage doesn't help against gods, and only really works against ornithopter, mutavault or haunted platemail which only really is played in the UW/UR/RUG control with ensoul artifact.
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
2 Genesis Hydra
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Erebos, God of the dead
Planeswalkers:
4 Ajani Steadfast
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Liliana Vess
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Banishing Light
3 Raise the Alarm
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
Artifacts:
1 The Chain Veil
Lands:
5 Forest
2 Plains
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Bile Blight
2 Deicide
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Plummet
I'll let you know how it goes come monday. I may end up putting vraska in and changing the numbers of each PW if steadfast becomes a win/more card as TabooTapeworm says.
Whipgrass helps against swarm decks with overrun like ezuri elves or craterhoof type effects. Since that's very circumstantial and I have ghostly prisons in the side board, I won't miss it.
After rethinking the deck a little bit, here's the 60 cards that I was able to cut the deck down to.
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
8 Plains
7 Swamp
Spells:
2 Unearth
Enchantments:
2 Illness in the Ranks
3 Bitterblossom
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dovescape
Planeswalkers:
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
Creatures:
4 Mother of Runes
2 Soul Warden
2 Soul's Attendant
3 Blood Artist
2 High Priest of Penance
3 Suture Priest
3 Edgewalker
4 Master Apothecary
2 Battletide Alchemist
4 Kor Firewalker
3 True Believer
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fiend Hunter
Also, how would combat lifegain effects?
Here's where I'm at so far, and I'm at a loss as to what to cut. Most of my decks nowadays are adaptive, and have some early game aggro, some midrange tricks, and late game bombs so it's well suited to compete against most types of decks, not just a couple like in standard. Casual is what really challenges the deckbuilder's way of thinking because there are so many deck archetypes and ideas that work very well.
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
8 Plains
7 Swamp
Enchantments:
2 Illness in the Ranks
4 Bitterblossom
2 Dovescape
Sorceries/Instants:
4 Unearth
3 Rootborn Defenses
1 Dread Return
Planeswalker
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
Creatures:
4 Mother of Runes
2 Planar Guide
2 Soul Warden
2 Soul's Attendant
2 Beloved Chaplain
4 Blood Artist
4 Dark Confidant
2 High Priest of Penance
4 Suture Priest
1 Cabal Archon
3 Edgewalker
2 Master Apothecary
1 Whipgrass Entangler
1 Desolation Angel
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Angel of Glory's Rise
3 Bojuka Bog
4 Kor Firewalker
3 True Believer
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Ghostly Prison
This deck starts similar to Soul Sisters with 2 different kinds of 1 drop life gain opportunities and what cleric deck is worth it's salt with MoR? 2 drops contain suture priest and blood artist to protect and punish sweepers turn 4. High priest of penance is to set opponents back a turn if they attack into me, and help me stall until mid/late game. Bitterblossom is there just to basically get a flier each turn for free (thanks to soul sisters and suture priest, and if I have illness in the ranks out, dealing damage to my opponent and destroying spirit tokens) to block fliers.
Edgewalker helps me play cards for cheap/free which leaves my mana open for the ghostly prison ability of entangler. Once I get enough mana, or after a sweeper, I can play desolation angel and swing away while opponent struggles to build their landbase back up. If the board hasn't been swept by then, Edgewalker will allow me to continue to play clerics without mana.
Late game strategies include:
Dovescape: If I have creature advantage, it makes sense to play dovescape as anything that's not a creature gets turned into 1/1 birds and with illness out, it basically counters everything that isn't a creature. Creatures can be blocked by the beloved chaplain and neutered by master apothecary.
Angel of glory's rise is for after sweepers when I can bring back pretty much everything all at once, and with suture priests, it typically spells game over for my opponent bringing back 6 creatures with 2 of them being suture priest. Playing angel really is a momentum changer and sometimes game winner on paper.
That's my deck currently and I know I'm over the limit, but I don't know which direction to go to cut cards down. I've put a lot of time and effort into making this refresh something new and am excited to finish it. Any comments/thoughts/suggestions are much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts. =)
Played a phylactory lich deck who couldn't get past tamiyo either.
Finally played an Esper control deck that used aetherling and obzedat as wincons. That was rather difficult as he boarded in 4 illness in the ranks. Detention Sphere sideboarded in and when I drew a second iniative, the tokens were able to swing through Jace's +1 ability and take the game.
I have an 85%+ win ratio right now on lackey, but again, that's only lackey. I'll probably build the deck and take it to FNM next friday.
Blue just isn't that apparant in my mana base to run D spheres consistantly, but I will be putting in more o rings as you're right, it hits more than just creatures. Blind Obedience is in for Red decks with haste/trample. Just to make sure that I can't get omgwtf'ed by a RDW or boros deck belching out their hand after a sweeper. The extort isn't necessary, but having a red creature come in tapped makes the game MUCH more manageable.
Good call on the arrest.