It is actually quite likely. If they are trying to recreate the feel of vintage and legacy in a limited environment this is something that can be printed at common or uncommon and help fuel some of that
If dust bowl and tower of the magistrate are in there I will be content. Both are less than $10 but go for 40-60 for foil versions. They are also both edh staples. Appearing in a high percentage of decks regardless of color
My next ideal card would be ancient tomb it's less that $20 and has never been foiled
They will obviously have one expensive "chase" card. Wasteland, karakas, rishidan port, maze of ith, mutavault.....most people seem to want like 4 or 5 of these probably types of cards probably see 2 at most and the set can still be amazing even with just one as long as they don't screw ot up like they did with legends.....so much potential so dissapointing
There are several decks that use Magus and blood moon in vintage, most notable the mountains win again (or the plateau's win again if they splash white) and Christmas beatings (red/green). these decks run several cards along with the moon effects to maximize the hate they put on the common decks in the format (chalice of the void, null rod ect) They also run spirit guides to make first turn moon effects much more common (mountains win again runs spiriy guides AND ancient tombs/City of traitors) It's very very common for a turn one moon effect in these decks.
A recent event in my area was won by a gentleman named John Jones who piloted a version of Christmas beatings, defeated a landstill deck piloted expertly by one Paul Mastriano....so these decks definately can be competitive if not top tier and if you dismiss them outright you will be in trouble when they are sitting across from you at a tournament
Not really. Split Second cards say that no other spells or triggered abilities can be put on the stack until the Split Second card resolves.
Interrupts operated faster than Instants, but at the same speed as other Interrupts. So you could respond to an Interrupt with an Interrupt, but not with an Instant.
In other words, you can cast an Interrupt in response to an Interrupt, but you can't cast anything in response to Split Second.
Think you mean activated abilities. any abilities triggered by the casting of the Split second spell (standstill for example) would still resolve normally
considered using Ghost Quarter?
Effectively wasteland that doesnt compromise Land Tax
yes i have tested it. It is sub-optimal, the wastelands are more effective at slowing my opponent down, which is what they are in there for. The Ghost quarters are only better than wastelands if i have land tax in play and need to get under my opponent. but the are considerably worse if i am trying to slow my opponent down and land tax is not on the board. The reason i went with Path over swords is that in a deck that wins by turning little white men sideways giving my opponent a bunch of life (and thus a couple extra turns) ended up being Sub-optimal in testing as well. if anything i would consider ADDING ghost quarters along with the wastelands but there really isn't room for it. perhaps one or two could be squeezed in...i'll look into it.
and for the record Wasteland doesn't compromise Land Tax since it is a 1 for one ....unless they don't drop a land on their next turn which is usually a win for you as well
On a side note the deck has been testing really well against most archetypes lately. Even had someone watching a game i played with it ask to copy the build (since it costs less than $70 in a 10 proxy environment, is is surprisingly competitive for that cost)
I have actually been working on a deck for a while that puresteel just fit right into. Doing ok with it so far in testing. I'm working on a tight Budget as my funds are all basically filtered into Eternal Formats. so no Stoneforge Mystics and no swords or Batterskulls. It still does suprisingly well so far. and is incredibly fun to play 0 equip costs and mortarpod makes for some fun times
well, the main reason why i like red is really to add recruiters. based on analysis. 1cc spells will face its worst enemies with the release of NPH cards. thats why i chose recruiters instead of seal. but will ponder on making it 3cc in the days to come. this is really under construction.
EDIT: and just to add. i dont like blasting station because it gets messed up with nullrod.
I think you are overvaluing Mental Misstep in Vintage. It is going to be bonkers in legacy but i don't see it being huge in vintage it's too limited even with it being a free counter. while it will see some play that shouldn't scare you off of playing cards that are obviously superior just to play around it. Especially if it's replacement is in a color you are light in and/or could cut altogether. You wouldn't not add ancestral recall to a deck just because of mental misstep....And if you really think it's good enough that you have to plan for it then remember it counters itself.
I'm pretty sure that no successful Vintage storm deck, ever, has played Extirpate for the purpose of stripping away counterspells. Unless you hit copies in their hand, it's just card disadvantage and practically worthless.
Vintage storm decks used to run extirpate a lot more than they do now. i havn't seen it in a sideboard in quite a while and yes they did board them in against other storm decks and yes they were used for all the things i mentioned in my above post
i perhaps was incorrect in saying removing counters was the MAIN thing they were used for but the fact that they were useful against control while also being useful against dredge was mostly what earned them their board spot at the time.
Well, I'm no real tourney shark, but I'm sure that the null rod thing wouldn't matter that often at all since it is most used in Vintage (and legal in Legacy) while Jace doesn't really have a place in those formats. But yeah, I'll give you that you wouldn't be able to stop Jace's first fateseal, brainstorm, or bounce.
Jace is most certainly used in vintage and legacy. just about every blue based control deck in the vintage format runs him
life is meaningful in storm decks and nobody plays Telepathy which lets you see their hand for the rest of the game. It's better to just duress or spell pierce, which are far more universal, than to use this card that is potentially fuel for Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain to get what is potentially minimal utility.
It MIGHT see play because it can up the storm count for free and does, like you said, reveal whether or not they have countermagic, but even if they do, you're just stalling, it's much better to duress it away than say "well now i need to sculpt a hand that can fight through counters".
duress/thoughtseize also prevent non-blue methods of hate from ruining your day. this card will never stop Gaddock Teeg or Thorn of Amethyst whereas discard can.
in the end, it's probably safer to use real discard than simply knowing whether or not you can afford to go off (which doesn't really do anything for you, as you end up just sitting around, down a card, and with your opponent still sitting pretty with his countermagic).
first off the 2 life is irrelevant in your the argument since Thoughtseize Also causes you to lose two life. and by paying the same 1 black you would pay for thoughtseize you don't lose 2 life, you just have the option to pay to life pad your storm count and remove all copies of a card from their deck from the game....
comparing it to telepathy is dumb, obviously telepathy isn't played because all it does is allow you to look at your opponants hand. You wouldn't be running this main deck anyway so it's not really competing with thoughtseize...it's a board card and the fact that it has some use against dredge makes it an efficient board card
Keep in mind that by targeting a counterspell in their graveyard you force them to counter extraction or they lose any copies of that spell they have in their hand (and library). you are only stalling if they never tried to counter any spell you played for the entire game, and if thats the case you are in pretty good shape cause they are probably not running them (or have none in their hand), or you are trying to storm off turn 1. This can cost 0 mana so it's never a dead draw when you don't have the mana to spare (and how many times have you tried to storm off and had exactly 2 black mana left to cast tendrils. I have more times than i can count) it can also be used offensively to remove lotus/rits in response to will yawg will or just removing rits from a storm decks yard (hand and library) seems pretty good to me, removing anything from their yard after they resolve ....vampiric tutor, imperial seal, mystical tutor, lim-dul's vault can also wreck someones day
lastly it doesn't target so it gets around leyline of sanctity and can't be misdirected (minor bonuses but still there)
Again i am not saying this card is bonkers must play in every deck, just that it is a vintage playable card and will show up from time to time....worth picking up a set just in case it ends up fitting well in a deck you end up playing. i personally want to try them in my parfait build
Not really sure on this one, i may try a pair in Dark times and see how they go, i don't think it's going to be a great fit but the potential synergy is there. Might also test them out in parfait since they are an extra answer to planeswalkers which is one thing that deck has problems with (and parfait can't run null rod for obvious reasons).
I'm not expecting them to be sideboard tech in most of the top tier decks because there are better options available, most of the decks that WOULD like to run this run null rod so it's kind of counter productive
I think you are more likely to see this IN dredge than played against it (seems to work well with Cabal therapy). The main appeal to this card is it effectively costs 0 mana meaning it can be used as a sideboard card for decks that run very little or no black mana. and while there are better sideboard cards against dredge ....extirpate is used more against control decks to strip counterspells than it is to try and beat dredge, yet at the same time it still helps you against dredge... obviously this card is not reinventing the vintage meta, extirpate wasn't seeing huge amounts of play to begin with...this is not a better card, it's not a worse card either however. it just has different strengths. It is definately vintage playable, i would pick up a play set and hold on to them if i were a vintage player....which conveniently i am
also: another interesting note is this card gets around leyline of sanctity since it doesn't target the player, it doesn't even target the card you are choosing
and we already have Tormod's Crypt and Faerie Macabre for that. plus, why would you drit after GY hating? you should do one or the other unless you need to up your storm count.
the reason you are ritting after casting this is because you have seen your opponents hand and are positive he can't counter the rit? keep in mind even though it's graveyard hate it's more often tech against counterspell decks than dredge, and seeing your opponants hand for free before attempting to storm off is huge.
I am curious to see what else they do with Phyrexian mana symbols. Free cards are immediately playable in vintage although obviously HOW playable they are is yet to be determined. I personally see a niche for this card but most of my vintage friends have been pretty split.
A friend and i were talking about Force of will the other night, it's most likely not being reprinted (as much as i'd like to see it be so the price would tank. ) but they could make a "free" counterspell in this set with Phyrexian mana
....would probably work. or even 4 phyrexian mana would probably be ok since you have the option of paying mana or life. There was an article written somewhere that asked the question how much life would you pay for force of will....can't remember if it was a star city article or a WoTC one though. I believe the consensus was 6 though life would still be worth it.
Bazaar of Bhagdad based
Mishra's Workshop based
Dark Ritual Based
Null rod Based
Mana Drain Based (though this is really blue control based now as drain sees a lot less play)
Some decks play multiple pillars but usually if they do fit closer in one or the other. Ritual decks took a large hit with the printing of Loadstone golem, the number of shop decks you see in the format has forced many combo players into less fragile shells, less early turn winning more control and set-up for mid-game winning. Gush based decks have also pushed the popularity of decks in the ritual pillar....people like to draw cards i guess. You will still see TPS(the perfect Storm) on occasion especially if nobody has played it at a venue for a while someone will break it out and usually do well with it, same with ANT(ad Naseum Tendrils)
My next ideal card would be ancient tomb it's less that $20 and has never been foiled
They will obviously have one expensive "chase" card. Wasteland, karakas, rishidan port, maze of ith, mutavault.....most people seem to want like 4 or 5 of these probably types of cards probably see 2 at most and the set can still be amazing even with just one as long as they don't screw ot up like they did with legends.....so much potential so dissapointing
A recent event in my area was won by a gentleman named John Jones who piloted a version of Christmas beatings, defeated a landstill deck piloted expertly by one Paul Mastriano....so these decks definately can be competitive if not top tier and if you dismiss them outright you will be in trouble when they are sitting across from you at a tournament
Think you mean activated abilities. any abilities triggered by the casting of the Split second spell (standstill for example) would still resolve normally
yes i have tested it. It is sub-optimal, the wastelands are more effective at slowing my opponent down, which is what they are in there for. The Ghost quarters are only better than wastelands if i have land tax in play and need to get under my opponent. but the are considerably worse if i am trying to slow my opponent down and land tax is not on the board. The reason i went with Path over swords is that in a deck that wins by turning little white men sideways giving my opponent a bunch of life (and thus a couple extra turns) ended up being Sub-optimal in testing as well. if anything i would consider ADDING ghost quarters along with the wastelands but there really isn't room for it. perhaps one or two could be squeezed in...i'll look into it.
and for the record Wasteland doesn't compromise Land Tax since it is a 1 for one ....unless they don't drop a land on their next turn which is usually a win for you as well
On a side note the deck has been testing really well against most archetypes lately. Even had someone watching a game i played with it ask to copy the build (since it costs less than $70 in a 10 proxy environment, is is surprisingly competitive for that cost)
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Glint Hawk
3 Perilous Myr
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Leonin Relic-warder
4 Flayer Husk
4 Mortarpod
2 Day of Judgment
2 Dispense Justice
2 Dispatch
2 Elspeth Tirel
3 Contagion Clasp
2 Shrine of Loyal Legions
2 Darksteel Axe
1 Sylvok Lifestaff
3 Divine offering
1 Dispatch
1 Dispense Justice
2 Day of Judgment
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Blinding Souleater
2 Hammer of Ruin
I think you are overvaluing Mental Misstep in Vintage. It is going to be bonkers in legacy but i don't see it being huge in vintage it's too limited even with it being a free counter. while it will see some play that shouldn't scare you off of playing cards that are obviously superior just to play around it. Especially if it's replacement is in a color you are light in and/or could cut altogether. You wouldn't not add ancestral recall to a deck just because of mental misstep....And if you really think it's good enough that you have to plan for it then remember it counters itself.
Vintage storm decks used to run extirpate a lot more than they do now. i havn't seen it in a sideboard in quite a while and yes they did board them in against other storm decks and yes they were used for all the things i mentioned in my above post
i perhaps was incorrect in saying removing counters was the MAIN thing they were used for but the fact that they were useful against control while also being useful against dredge was mostly what earned them their board spot at the time.
Jace is most certainly used in vintage and legacy. just about every blue based control deck in the vintage format runs him
first off the 2 life is irrelevant in your the argument since Thoughtseize Also causes you to lose two life. and by paying the same 1 black you would pay for thoughtseize you don't lose 2 life, you just have the option to pay to life pad your storm count and remove all copies of a card from their deck from the game....
comparing it to telepathy is dumb, obviously telepathy isn't played because all it does is allow you to look at your opponants hand. You wouldn't be running this main deck anyway so it's not really competing with thoughtseize...it's a board card and the fact that it has some use against dredge makes it an efficient board card
Keep in mind that by targeting a counterspell in their graveyard you force them to counter extraction or they lose any copies of that spell they have in their hand (and library). you are only stalling if they never tried to counter any spell you played for the entire game, and if thats the case you are in pretty good shape cause they are probably not running them (or have none in their hand), or you are trying to storm off turn 1. This can cost 0 mana so it's never a dead draw when you don't have the mana to spare (and how many times have you tried to storm off and had exactly 2 black mana left to cast tendrils. I have more times than i can count) it can also be used offensively to remove lotus/rits in response to will yawg will or just removing rits from a storm decks yard (hand and library) seems pretty good to me, removing anything from their yard after they resolve ....vampiric tutor, imperial seal, mystical tutor, lim-dul's vault can also wreck someones day
lastly it doesn't target so it gets around leyline of sanctity and can't be misdirected (minor bonuses but still there)
Again i am not saying this card is bonkers must play in every deck, just that it is a vintage playable card and will show up from time to time....worth picking up a set just in case it ends up fitting well in a deck you end up playing. i personally want to try them in my parfait build
I'm not expecting them to be sideboard tech in most of the top tier decks because there are better options available, most of the decks that WOULD like to run this run null rod so it's kind of counter productive
also: another interesting note is this card gets around leyline of sanctity since it doesn't target the player, it doesn't even target the card you are choosing
the reason you are ritting after casting this is because you have seen your opponents hand and are positive he can't counter the rit? keep in mind even though it's graveyard hate it's more often tech against counterspell decks than dredge, and seeing your opponants hand for free before attempting to storm off is huge.
A friend and i were talking about Force of will the other night, it's most likely not being reprinted (as much as i'd like to see it be so the price would tank. ) but they could make a "free" counterspell in this set with Phyrexian mana
something like....
{U\P}{U\P}{U\P}
counter target spell
....would probably work. or even 4 phyrexian mana would probably be ok since you have the option of paying mana or life. There was an article written somewhere that asked the question how much life would you pay for force of will....can't remember if it was a star city article or a WoTC one though. I believe the consensus was 6 though life would still be worth it.
He was referring to the pillars of Vintage
Bazaar of Bhagdad based
Mishra's Workshop based
Dark Ritual Based
Null rod Based
Mana Drain Based (though this is really blue control based now as drain sees a lot less play)
Some decks play multiple pillars but usually if they do fit closer in one or the other. Ritual decks took a large hit with the printing of Loadstone golem, the number of shop decks you see in the format has forced many combo players into less fragile shells, less early turn winning more control and set-up for mid-game winning. Gush based decks have also pushed the popularity of decks in the ritual pillar....people like to draw cards i guess. You will still see TPS(the perfect Storm) on occasion especially if nobody has played it at a venue for a while someone will break it out and usually do well with it, same with ANT(ad Naseum Tendrils)
i would also definately cut 1 smokestack or 1 crucible and add trinisphere
Spine of ish sah also warrants a look see in any deck running welder and bazaar