Can we get a mod to change the name of this thread to the correct card name?
Also, came on here to comment that the card has been pretty good for us. It plays really well in decks with Nissa, Steward of Elements. I am not running Hydroid krasis (Yet), but it makes me want to include it even more, just have not gotten around to acquiring one. All these X spells can give these Simic decks a real identity where you ramp as much as you can risk before dropping these spells which can get a lot of value late game, but also a safety valve if you need to use them early as well. These midrange decks do really well against other midrange decks since once the grinding starts you can get as much value as you have mana for, where as your opponent can only play their midrange threats for whatever value they would have as if it were on curve. As long as you can get something through counterspells they can do pretty well against control as well (or at least as well as midrange can do against control decks). Ravenous Hydra though has the ability to be useful against the aggro decks were as Nissa and Hydroid tend to be a little bit more lackluster and help shore up that matchup as well.
As others have posted above, finding the right cut for the card can be difficult at 450 or smaller, so if you are in that boat, I think it's worth finding something to cut. It's difficult because on paper it doesn't look as good as the other 4, 5 or 6 drops, but the flexibility is really good. I ended up cutting Noose Constrictor (I am still running Wild Mongrel, and while technically mongrel is a little weaker since changing color is worse than reach, I have an OG Odyssey version which is to pretty to get rid of compared to Mongrel, and for the most part they serve as a #23 in aggressive decks, or a discard outlet in reanimator anyway which usually doesn't care about the reach anyway.)
I still play it and like it quite a bit. I would play Hero of Dominaria over it if I had one, but haven't made that financial plunge yet. I can also see it being a good # 4 if you don't want to run 2 planeswalkers in a guild.
What do you recommend? Don't want to make formatting a barrier to participation--the only extra thing I will ask is that people use spoiler tags. Beyond that, I was just going to have them number 1-20 and name the cards:
I recommend not having people use numbers in and just the name of the card, and ask each voter to make sure the image pop's up for the card if they move mouse over (saves issues with slight differences in spellings in cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor where there are commas, or other cards with ' etc.
You may want to request that voters use a certain format or something, last time i helped do a few of the calculations, and one thing that took more time than you would think is making the data consistent so you can put itnto an excel format or slmething wothout spending to much time edditing it.
I guess an important question to ask is what is the purpose of the ranking? Is it to generate a pick order list for someone who is drafting? or is it more for cube designers a list that they should think about including in there cube (provided they are building a cube to the same standards of most powerful cube etc). When I first started building my cube I found these rankings mostly useful for that purpose. If that is the case, the metric could focus on that aspect. Maybe something along the lines of "how important this card is to the overall cube experience?" Any metric we pick is subjective, but this might capture the heart of what the list is trying to do.
Also, if Noble Hierarch is Bant, then the Mox should probably be in there respective colors and not in colorless? This would also make an argument that there could possibly be a [mana]WURBGa] section, and Black Lotus, City of Brass and the like would go there since they are intrinsically best in 5 color decks. (not arguing that we should have a 5 color section, but simply pointing out the flaw in using the "intrinsically best" isn't quite the line that makes sense to me.
Just my 2 pence, but I like the idea of voting on cards that can be cast by a single color but have tribrid like abilities to be voted on in both sections. I think this would give the most useful information to members of the community. Most cubes that are small can't run a card in each shard but are still probably interested in looking at Noble Hierarch, but cubes that are big enough and run cards for each shard / clan etc maybe inclined to include it there.
How are these playing for your play groups? I just ordered mine, and I need to make a decision if I should run these instead of manlands- or in addition to. My concern for running them instead of manlands is that they will be gobbled up by players who will use them as 1 of there colors as a way to draw an extra card late in the game, and thus there will be slightly less fixing available in those guilds.
Out of the green cards, I will need to put in some testing to decide which combination of the 4 to run. I have always felt Green 4's are bad and thus had 1 more Green 5 drop. Both Master of the Wild Hunt either Die to removal or win the game so the change might be a good thing, however, the new hydra and ambusher have a much lower ceiling and the floor isn't that much better IMO, so we will have to see what testing brings us.
If i tested this it will be over Oona's prowler since they both sort of play in this discard/aggro space. This has a bigger punch but no evasion, but I am never happy to play Oona in my aggro decks since if you cast her you opponents can buy so much time by discarding to stem the bleeding till they stabilize. This might be better since they would at least have to cast a spell or block to mitigate this guy, but he also makes a much worse discard outlet since casting him and having him removed before you can discard something will also feel bad whereas Oona you can discard what you need at instant speed. If others try this and it ends up playing better than it looks I will try the swap, but now that I have written my thoughts out here, I am not certain this is better
Cool Card, The question is at what size does it make it.
I will probably try running it over Diregraf Ghoul. The base power of 1 is pretty bad on this, but it makes a much better top deck, for any that are running green aggro strategies it overlaps with the general design of playing early threats that can grow, is a more interesting design, and even getting the counters on this 1 time with the ability to pump to a 5/6. My biggest concern with this cut is my cube might no longer be able to really support gravecrawler other than treating it as a 2/1. The other difficult thing is that black aggro is sort of turning into a deck that has to spend mana for it's creatures to do anything where it seems like white and red creatures get more static abilities / gain from attacking etc so you can still use your turns to cast additional threats and spells.
How has it compared to master of the wild hunt for you? I just made the switch to try it out, but I have not gotten in games with it yet.
Also, came on here to comment that the card has been pretty good for us. It plays really well in decks with Nissa, Steward of Elements. I am not running Hydroid krasis (Yet), but it makes me want to include it even more, just have not gotten around to acquiring one. All these X spells can give these Simic decks a real identity where you ramp as much as you can risk before dropping these spells which can get a lot of value late game, but also a safety valve if you need to use them early as well. These midrange decks do really well against other midrange decks since once the grinding starts you can get as much value as you have mana for, where as your opponent can only play their midrange threats for whatever value they would have as if it were on curve. As long as you can get something through counterspells they can do pretty well against control as well (or at least as well as midrange can do against control decks). Ravenous Hydra though has the ability to be useful against the aggro decks were as Nissa and Hydroid tend to be a little bit more lackluster and help shore up that matchup as well.
As others have posted above, finding the right cut for the card can be difficult at 450 or smaller, so if you are in that boat, I think it's worth finding something to cut. It's difficult because on paper it doesn't look as good as the other 4, 5 or 6 drops, but the flexibility is really good. I ended up cutting Noose Constrictor (I am still running Wild Mongrel, and while technically mongrel is a little weaker since changing color is worse than reach, I have an OG Odyssey version which is to pretty to get rid of compared to Mongrel, and for the most part they serve as a #23 in aggressive decks, or a discard outlet in reanimator anyway which usually doesn't care about the reach anyway.)
I would recommend something along the lines of:
I recommend not having people use numbers in and just the name of the card, and ask each voter to make sure the image pop's up for the card if they move mouse over (saves issues with slight differences in spellings in cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor where there are commas, or other cards with ' etc.
Also, if Noble Hierarch is Bant, then the Mox should probably be in there respective colors and not in colorless? This would also make an argument that there could possibly be a [mana]WURBGa] section, and Black Lotus, City of Brass and the like would go there since they are intrinsically best in 5 color decks. (not arguing that we should have a 5 color section, but simply pointing out the flaw in using the "intrinsically best" isn't quite the line that makes sense to me.
Knight of the Ebon Legion (not sure it will make the cut)
Voracious Hydra
Nightpack Ambusher
These are the cuts I would probably make for each
Diregraf Ghoul
Kalonian Hydra
Master of the Wild Hunt
Out of the green cards, I will need to put in some testing to decide which combination of the 4 to run. I have always felt Green 4's are bad and thus had 1 more Green 5 drop. Both Master of the Wild Hunt either Die to removal or win the game so the change might be a good thing, however, the new hydra and ambusher have a much lower ceiling and the floor isn't that much better IMO, so we will have to see what testing brings us.
I will probably try running it over Diregraf Ghoul. The base power of 1 is pretty bad on this, but it makes a much better top deck, for any that are running green aggro strategies it overlaps with the general design of playing early threats that can grow, is a more interesting design, and even getting the counters on this 1 time with the ability to pump to a 5/6. My biggest concern with this cut is my cube might no longer be able to really support gravecrawler other than treating it as a 2/1. The other difficult thing is that black aggro is sort of turning into a deck that has to spend mana for it's creatures to do anything where it seems like white and red creatures get more static abilities / gain from attacking etc so you can still use your turns to cast additional threats and spells.