Hello Everyone, and Welcome to BLUE POWER RANKINGS for 2016!
As a reminder, here's how the voting will work:
* This thread will be open until Monday, October 17th 8:00 p.m. MST time (10 p.m. Eastern)
* The VOTING thread will be for posting your votes only. Small discussions about the voting, in particular pointing out errors in other voter's rankings and questions about the voting, are allowed within reasonable length, but otherwise you should use the main CPR thread for discussions.
* Results will be posted in their own thread after this one is closed and all the votes compiled.
* Voters are to rank the Top 20 cards for the Blue group according to what they consider most effective at contributing to game wins in a traditional cube environment. Partial lists will not be accepted.
* Please rank your cards from #1 through #20, with #1 being the card you believe is most effective at contributing to game wins in a traditional cube environment. PLEASE NOTE that this is a change from previous years' "what you would pick as the very first card when drafting a cube (Pack 1, Pick 1)", although there should be substantial correlation between the two. If you're unclear on what that standard means, please refer to the discussion in the main Power Rankings thread and feel free to ask questions about it there.
* You can edit your vote freely, up until the moment the thread is closed.
===
HOW TO VOTE ON SIMILAR CARDS
The following cards are considered to be equal. If you include them in your vote, they must be ranked as a single entry.
And the following cards, despite having very similar effects, are not considered equal and must be ranked as separated entries:
* Preordain x Serum Visions
===
CARDS THAT ARE INCLUDED ON THIS VOTING
According to the rules at the main thread, the following cards are included in the BLUE voting group:
* Blue Power 9, remember to include these and other powerful cards, even if you do not personally run them. Use your best judgment of where they belong on your list if at all.
* Academy Ruins, Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle, Tolarian Academy and any other land able to produce only blue mana, or that produces colorless mana but has abilities that cost blue mana (and no other color).
* Gitaxian Probe, Phyrexian Metamorph and other "hybrid" blue/colorless cards.
* Crystal Shard, Spellskite, Vedalken Shackles and other colorless artifacts with abilities costing blue mana or that requires you to control islands, blue permanents or play blue spells.
*Arcane Savant and other cards which reference drafting and require blue mana to play
CARDS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED ON THIS VOTING
Also according to the rules, the following cards are included in other voting groups and must not be voted here:
* Vivid Creek and other lands able to produce 'mana of any color', even if their 'main' color is blue. Their voting group is LANDS.
* Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Arctic Aven, Forbidden Alchemy, Jilt and any other blue card with abilities that cost mana of other colors or that require you to control lands of other basic types. Their voting group is GUILD or SHARD/WEDGE.
* Judge's Familiar, Frostburn Weird and other hybrids cards with other color. Their voting group is also GUILD or SHARD/WEDGE.
* Mox Sapphire, Silver Myr and other colorless artifacts that produce blue mana but have no ability costing blue mana or that requires you to control plains. Their voting group is COLORLESS.
If you still have any doubt about how to classify a certain card not clarified above, please ask away.
===
PREVIOUS RANKINGS
For reference, here's the BLUE results for the previous three Power Rankings project. I'm including them here to be used as a reference only.
PLEASE NOTE! Since the last year's CPR, the following sets have been released:
Magic Origins
Battle For Zendikar
Commander 2015
Oath of the Gatewatch
Shadows over Innistrad
Eldritch Moon
Conspiracy: Take the Crown
Kaladesh
If I had a spot for a 4th dimid card Psychatog would probably be it, or If I wasn't trying to push the artifact deck, I could trade him out for tezzeret.
I also like the eat counters idea, but there would probably be to many broken things with things like kitchen finks, on the other hand, if it was done properly, it could probably create some cool interactions though.
I like the top, I can see why some people don't play it since it can be a little slow.
In our group however we often play a king of the hill style Best of 1's and then everyone moves seats. So even in a Control vs Control matchup, at least you don't have to wait for 3 whole games to finish.
My favorite toys growing up were Tinkertoy's, My parents didn't let us have toy guns, so we just made our own and ran around the neighborhood.
This discussion is about a month old?
How are people finding Green Aggro? I am personally struggling to make it work personally and still have enough card slots open.
I have:
Green 1 drops Ramp: 5 slots
Green 1 drops Aggro: 4 slots
Green 2 drops Ramp: 5 slots
Green 2 drops Aggro: 5 slots
Green 2 drops utility: 2 slots
That is a total of 21 slots in 1 and 2 drops leaving me with
4: 4 drops
4: 5 drops
2: 5 drops
3: 6 drops+
Note my cube size is 360. I am starting to learn towards the idea that at 360 it's to tight to make green aggro work?
Does any one have experience counter to this? If so,
How many creatures are in each spot?
I want to replace Ostrasize, since with Harsh Scrutiny we've gotten a strict upgrade. But I also though about Blackmail and Raven's Crime. How would you rank those discard spells? Are there any good one's I'm missing? I don't run PW so Despise is no option and the obvious Thoughtseize and Inquisition are above my budget restrictions yet, sadly.
Why is Inquisition above your budget. Its less than a dime?
Maybee i have mis understood the primary pourpse of these rankings? Is it to help cube managers in their cube design or to help cube players see how they are evaluating the strength of cards? I always understood the power rankings as a way for drafters to see how they rank specific cards when drafting where as the project rank everything was more designed to help cube managers optimize there cube? Is this a correct assumption? If it is, then arbitrarily assigning noble hierarch to bant zeems wrong since I might draft it before I know I am in those colors, but it might help pursuade me to move to those colors. Basically, i have always thought this as more of a guide to drafting and i want to know if i am takning noble hierarch to early or late etc.
If we lump all the 3+ colors together, it might help people on designing their cube, but it will provide little if any information as a tool to evaluate myself with as a drafter.
If on the other hand the primary purpose is to help people in cube design then what is the point of doing a project rank everything?
2nd, then yes we should include cards like hiearch and the other tribrid cards in the 3 color section. It then makes sense to lump this section together as a list for cube managers to scroll through and figure out what they want to do.
What about: Rank the top 20 cards of the given color Strongest to weakest under the context of when you are drafting and building your deck, how important is this to your deck?
This would take into consideration the strength of super strong build around me cards, the flexibility of cards that can fit into multiple decks, the mana cost etc, the impact it has on the rest of your draft, the impact the card has on how you construct your deck.
Is this a good place to start for a definition?
As for tribrid cards, the reason I am pushing for including them in their mono colored section is I want to know where cards like noble Hierarch and Soulfire Grand master rank compared to the rest of the cards in there respective color. I already know Noble Hierach is one of the best cards in it's tri-color combination.
maybe if we have a top 10 shard / wedge section this year we could have it included in both?
Edit:
I forgot to ask, Does any one have a stats background? if so can you pm me? I was thinking it would be nice to get some statistical data on the results. In previous years there have been cards which have been seperated by .2, .3 .4 points. It would be nice to see if they are statistically similar etc. I have access to some software packages, but need a little guidance on what types of tests to run etc etc
I've never tried running Goblin Dark-Dwellers, but if I ever cut Kiki-Jiki/Twin combo package, this seems it would be my top candidate for Kiki-Jiki's spot. The Buy-a-Box foil art looks pretty sweet, too.
My favorite Goblin in cube is Goblin Heelcutter, it's let me squeak out a lot of wins in games that were starting to turn against me. My favorite Goblin of all time is Mogg Fanatic, it may be outclassed for cube now but it was my favorite turn 1 play in so many of the decks I played when I first started building my own decks that could actually win. It's still hanging in there in my Peasant cube, but it's just a matter of time before power creep pushes it out of that cube as well.
Sometimes we run the fanatic with house rules of if mogg fanatic is in play, damage goes on the stack until the end of turn... you should give it a try
As a reminder, here's how the voting will work:
* This thread will be open until Monday, October 17th 8:00 p.m. MST time (10 p.m. Eastern)
* The VOTING thread will be for posting your votes only. Small discussions about the voting, in particular pointing out errors in other voter's rankings and questions about the voting, are allowed within reasonable length, but otherwise you should use the main CPR thread for discussions.
* Results will be posted in their own thread after this one is closed and all the votes compiled.
* Voters are to rank the Top 20 cards for the Blue group according to what they consider most effective at contributing to game wins in a traditional cube environment. Partial lists will not be accepted.
* Please rank your cards from #1 through #20, with #1 being the card you believe is most effective at contributing to game wins in a traditional cube environment. PLEASE NOTE that this is a change from previous years' "what you would pick as the very first card when drafting a cube (Pack 1, Pick 1)", although there should be substantial correlation between the two. If you're unclear on what that standard means, please refer to the discussion in the main Power Rankings thread and feel free to ask questions about it there.
* You can edit your vote freely, up until the moment the thread is closed.
===
HOW TO VOTE ON SIMILAR CARDS
The following cards are considered to be equal. If you include them in your vote, they must be ranked as a single entry.
* Essence Scatter = Remove Soul = Preemptive Strike
* Time Warp = Capture of Jingzhou = Temporal Manipulation
And the following cards, despite having very similar effects, are not considered equal and must be ranked as separated entries:
* Preordain x Serum Visions
===
CARDS THAT ARE INCLUDED ON THIS VOTING
According to the rules at the main thread, the following cards are included in the BLUE voting group:
* Blue Power 9, remember to include these and other powerful cards, even if you do not personally run them. Use your best judgment of where they belong on your list if at all.
* Academy Ruins, Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle, Tolarian Academy and any other land able to produce only blue mana, or that produces colorless mana but has abilities that cost blue mana (and no other color).
* Gitaxian Probe, Phyrexian Metamorph and other "hybrid" blue/colorless cards.
* Crystal Shard, Spellskite, Vedalken Shackles and other colorless artifacts with abilities costing blue mana or that requires you to control islands, blue permanents or play blue spells.
*Arcane Savant and other cards which reference drafting and require blue mana to play
CARDS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED ON THIS VOTING
Also according to the rules, the following cards are included in other voting groups and must not be voted here:
* Vivid Creek and other lands able to produce 'mana of any color', even if their 'main' color is blue. Their voting group is LANDS.
* Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Arctic Aven, Forbidden Alchemy, Jilt and any other blue card with abilities that cost mana of other colors or that require you to control lands of other basic types. Their voting group is GUILD or SHARD/WEDGE.
* Judge's Familiar, Frostburn Weird and other hybrids cards with other color. Their voting group is also GUILD or SHARD/WEDGE.
* Mox Sapphire, Silver Myr and other colorless artifacts that produce blue mana but have no ability costing blue mana or that requires you to control plains. Their voting group is COLORLESS.
If you still have any doubt about how to classify a certain card not clarified above, please ask away.
===
PREVIOUS RANKINGS
For reference, here's the BLUE results for the previous three Power Rankings project. I'm including them here to be used as a reference only.
2 Time Walk - 18.2
3 Mana Drain - 15.8
4 Treachery - 15.2
5 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror - 12.2
6 Tinker - 10.9
7 Upheaval - 9.6
8 Bribery - 9.2
9 Gifts Given - 9.2
10 Fact or Fiction - 9.0
11 Gifts Ungiven - 8.7
12 Forbid - 7.2
13 Force of Will - 6.4
14 Capsize - 6.0
15 Timetwister - 6.0
16 Time Spiral - 5.8
17 Cryptic Command - 5.3
18 Morphling - 4.9
19 Keiga, the Tide Star - 3.7
20 Vedalken Shackles - 3.2
2 Time Walk - 18.1
3 Mana Drain - 17.2
4 Treachery - 15.6
5 Tinker - 12.3
6 Bribery - 10.5
7 Fact or Fiction - 9.6
8 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror - 8.7
9 Upheaval - 8.5
9 Time Spiral - 8.5
11 Gifts Ungiven - 8.0
12 Jace, the Mind Sculptor - 7.2
13 Force of Will - 7.1
14 Vedalken Shackles - 7.0
15 Forbid - 6.9
16 Future Sight - 5.9
17 Gifts Given - 5.2
18 Control Magic - 4.5
19 Capsize - 3.9
20 Timetwister - 3.8
2 Time Walk - 16.6
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor - 16.3
4 Mana Drain - 13.8
5 Tinker - 13.5
6 Treachery - 12.8
7 Upheaval - 12.3
8 Snapcaster Mage - 10.7
9 True-Name Nemesis - 8.5
10 Vedalken Shackles - 8.2
11 Vendilion Clique - 8.0
12 Phyrexian Metamorph - 6.4
13 Control Magic - 4.9
14 Fact or Fiction - 4.7
15 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror - 4.2
16 Venser, Shaper Savant - 4.0
17 Glen Elendra Archmage - 3.9
18 Opposition - 3.6
19 Time Spiral - 3.3
20 Bribery - 3.2
2 Time Walk - 18.4
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor - 16.3
4 Tinker - 15.8
5 Mana Drain - 15.3
6 Upheaval - 13.8
7 Treachery - 13.3
8 Snapcaster Mage - 10.9
9 True-Name Nemesis - 9.5
10 Vedalken Shackles - 9.3
11 Vendilion Clique - 8.5
12 Dig Through Time - 5.5
13 Fact or Fiction - 5.3
14 Glen Elendra Archmage - 5.0
15 Control Magic - 4.0
16 Opposition - 3.8
17 Bribery - 3.7
18 Phyrexian Metamorph - 3.7
19 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror - 3.6
20 Venser, Shaper Savant - 3.0
PLEASE NOTE! Since the last year's CPR, the following sets have been released:
Magic Origins
Battle For Zendikar
Commander 2015
Oath of the Gatewatch
Shadows over Innistrad
Eldritch Moon
Conspiracy: Take the Crown
Kaladesh
BLUE VOTING IS NOW OPEN!
- baleful strix
- creeping tar pit
- tezzeret, agent of bolas
.If I had a spot for a 4th dimid card Psychatog would probably be it, or If I wasn't trying to push the artifact deck, I could trade him out for tezzeret.
I also like the eat counters idea, but there would probably be to many broken things with things like kitchen finks, on the other hand, if it was done properly, it could probably create some cool interactions though.
01 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
02 Armageddon
03 Balance
04 moat
05 Gideon Jura
06Wrath of God
07Day of Judgment
08 Swords to Plowshares
09 Path to Exile
10 Stoneforge Mystic
11 Enlightened Tutor
12 Land Tax
13 Reveillark
14 Recruiter of the Guard
15 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
16 Mother of Runes
17 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
18 Monastery Mentor
19 Council's Judgment
20 Oblivion Ring
In our group however we often play a king of the hill style Best of 1's and then everyone moves seats. So even in a Control vs Control matchup, at least you don't have to wait for 3 whole games to finish.
My favorite toys growing up were Tinkertoy's, My parents didn't let us have toy guns, so we just made our own and ran around the neighborhood.
How are people finding Green Aggro? I am personally struggling to make it work personally and still have enough card slots open.
I have:
Green 1 drops Ramp: 5 slots
Green 1 drops Aggro: 4 slots
Green 2 drops Ramp: 5 slots
Green 2 drops Aggro: 5 slots
Green 2 drops utility: 2 slots
That is a total of 21 slots in 1 and 2 drops leaving me with
4: 4 drops
4: 5 drops
2: 5 drops
3: 6 drops+
Note my cube size is 360. I am starting to learn towards the idea that at 360 it's to tight to make green aggro work?
Does any one have experience counter to this? If so,
How many creatures are in each spot?
Why is Inquisition above your budget. Its less than a dime?
oh, I see you mean Inquisition of Kozilek
After This years power rankings, We are talking about doing a project rank everything
If it happens, it will be january or so
2. Included
3. Included
4. Included
If we lump all the 3+ colors together, it might help people on designing their cube, but it will provide little if any information as a tool to evaluate myself with as a drafter.
If on the other hand the primary purpose is to help people in cube design then what is the point of doing a project rank everything?
2nd, then yes we should include cards like hiearch and the other tribrid cards in the 3 color section. It then makes sense to lump this section together as a list for cube managers to scroll through and figure out what they want to do.
This would take into consideration the strength of super strong build around me cards, the flexibility of cards that can fit into multiple decks, the mana cost etc, the impact it has on the rest of your draft, the impact the card has on how you construct your deck.
Is this a good place to start for a definition?
As for tribrid cards, the reason I am pushing for including them in their mono colored section is I want to know where cards like noble Hierarch and Soulfire Grand master rank compared to the rest of the cards in there respective color. I already know Noble Hierach is one of the best cards in it's tri-color combination.
maybe if we have a top 10 shard / wedge section this year we could have it included in both?
Edit:
I forgot to ask, Does any one have a stats background? if so can you pm me? I was thinking it would be nice to get some statistical data on the results. In previous years there have been cards which have been seperated by .2, .3 .4 points. It would be nice to see if they are statistically similar etc. I have access to some software packages, but need a little guidance on what types of tests to run etc etc
Sometimes we run the fanatic with house rules of if mogg fanatic is in play, damage goes on the stack until the end of turn... you should give it a try
I wish I could run both. I think I want to run 1 + Daretti, Scrap Savant for artifacts. Running all 3 in 360 feels like to many