Drive // Despair really does look like the best Aftermath card and is certainly Modern Playable. Didn't think about its application in Dredge but that's a great place for it, especially Dredging or discarding it then swinging on turn 3 with a few Blooghasts and Narcos to destroy the opponent's hand like you said.
I can see a problem in today's Modern: It's too uninteractive.. And the problem is REAL. No DS in top 8 actually is bad, because it was a linear festival.
This extreme linearity needs to be resolved somehow. There are 2 ways IMO.
1) New, strong prints(which we are hoping for and we got 4 or 5 during the last 2 years)
2) Unban Splinter Twin.
We are getting to a point that this ban looks hilariously bad. It would be just fine, especially with Fatal Push.
Also, it could also make people run more interaction to fight it.
Just admit your mistake and unban it.
This top 8 is a classic showing of people reacting to a perceived shift in the meta. People saw that a ton of people were going to be running Grixis shadow so they smartly decided to show up with decks that are good against that. They also took advantage of the fact that with decks like Affinity not showing up for awhile the anti-artifact hate was at an all time low while anti-GY hate was at an all time high.
This is a perfect analysis. What we learned today is that there is no such thing as a "best deck" in Modern. You have to be a holistic player with good skill, good metagame reads, and good sideboard design. I can't imagine a format better than Modern right now. And if you don't think there's enough interaction, go re-watch that Wescoe vs. BBD match just before the top 8. There were tons of interactions.
I'd say Legacy is better, aside from the obvious detriment of the Reserved List.
But Modern is great right now, no doubt, and to me it seems to have hit that stride where it just keeps getting better.
I can think of something real simple to help with linear degeneracy, promote interaction, and incentivize people to play control decks...
Jesus Christ. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a 2RR Enchantment Nail.
You got a better idea? Because Wizards sure doesn't.
And here we go again...
I remember why I stopped posting in here.
This is not a constructive post that offers any reasonable or doable solution. Unless your response is to continue and play the "wait and see" game like we have been, where linear degeneracy runs rampant until it is banned, then the next thing lines up until it's banned too. That's what happens when you remove the top "control" deck of the format and then leave all other control decks horrendously underpowered due to the massive boost in threats every set and leave the answers decks to struggle with poor filtering, poor draw, poor counters, and poor win conditions. But if you've got an easier fix than simply putting back a deck that didn't deserve a ban in the first place, I'm all ears. I don't think Shadow needs a ban, I don't think Affinity needs a ban, I think Modern either needs a premiere control deck with a threatening win condition to force people into respecting and interacting with their opponent ~OR~ they need lots and lots of good cantrips, counterspells, and some kind of new, reliable, and timely win condition. One of these options seems a lot more realistic and attainable than the other.
If you didn't watch the last 45 minutes of the stream and missed the HOU special preview event at Vegas, watch it later. It's the most spectacular, but unintentional, comedy in MTG history. Everything from the production to the concept to the clueless extras to the audience reaction is gold.
The HOU previews themselves weren't Modern playable. Closest was a 3WWW sweeper that removes all nonland permanents and costs 3 less if there are 10+ nonland permanents in play.
My lore guess is that Bolas locks down/imprisons/otherwise occupies the Gatewatch in Ixalan, and it falls to an alliance of legends to keep him from taking Dominaria.
Let me just first say that this list is terrible. Here are my reasons...
1: You play brainstorm without fetching. So you are all in on merchant scroll to shuffle or intuition.
2: If you play candle you should have capsize in the board to generate infinite mana with. That's the whole reason to get candles.
3: Not sure how i feel about swan song. Counters that pressure us kinda scare me... How about running spell snare?
4: Playing 3 tormod's is not needed. Why does high tide need to extend the game by wiping the grave and not killing with combo? I can't wish for an artifact.
5: I am on the fence about git probe. I actually think the better card here is peek because it doesn't cost you life and its an instant. Costing life can be bad where in a lot of situations i find myself at a low life total when going off.
6: Not running 4 Time Spiral is actually wrong. If you play reset and are on that strategy that's one thing. But not having 4 of your best card other than high tide blows my mind.
I would have went on but 6 felt like enough to get my point across.
@MTGS_User8233
I don't think commit can work as if you are at a lot of mana blue sun is just better. Why draw 7 and give my opponent outs when i can draw 15 and redraw the blue sun later. Removing hate is about choosing right board slots. I think our boards should have about 10-11 wish targets that are different. Playing 2 rebuild makes no sense as i would rather play a rebuild and maybe a hurkyl's recall or how about echoing truth?
I will say. I have my old high tide list the page before this but its outdated since top rotated. If you are interested i can provide an updated one.
The problem with them having a Modern testing team is that they would have to be WotC employees. It can't be a committee of players because they would have to give them access to data like their mtgo matchup win percentages, which would give these players a significant advantage over the rest of the field in competitive events. Not to mention that they would get insider info on cards being banned or unbanned.
The other issue is that we'd basically be depending on WoTC to select the right kind of testers. The issue with the new playtest team that people are pointing out in a few places comes down to "are they testing for the pro-tour, or are they testing for the average guy going to FNM who is exposed to a more diverse field of decks?" In modern this problem would be easier to spot since the T1 and T2 archetypes are pretty set in stone most of the time without a major shakeup like the Eldrazi Winter. That Eldrazi Winter scenario did point out how bad the cardpool support actually was for the format, though. Modern isn't a format that can handle super big shake ups on the market because the prices of each deck are so high people can't actually shift out of them very quickly or easily. Unless everyone basically converted to budget modern, but it wouldn't be budget for very long.
Something I forgot to mention in my last post but plays nicely off this one is that a modern team wouldn't have to be huge to be efficient, if they had good people doing it. With every new set there are only a handful, if any, cards that even appear to have eternal applications, much less ones that end up actually seeing play. It wouldn't be as if every new card would have to be tested in every variation of every deck. By far the most time consuming part would be pouring through past cards to make a "watch list" of cards that could be problematic along with future releases. Everyone knew that devoted druid was garbage forever but having a file somewhere that just says "check this with new counter mechanics" would've allowed them to catch and test the new company decks. They seem fine for now so it wasn't an issue but it'd still give me some piece of mind knowing that these kind of things had been looked at. If something does slip through, modern has better tools to adjust than standard does. The fact that they couldn't even catch the copy cat combo out of the same block in standard just shows they are so far from ever making this a reality.
They are trying to milk every cent out of modern that they can without having to ever think about it and it has led to a lot of bad PR for them. They've mentioned that there is a very real cost to bannings and the bad PR that comes with it; I'm not sure the potential profit they lost during eldrazi winter couldn't have paid for it to be avoided in the first place.
Wraith brings up a good point but there has to be a workaround. Maybe make them sign a NDA? I mean cleary Modern players have more knowledge of the format than anyone else, so they're the best candidates for a banlist committee. Of course, some might have a hard time being objective, which brings me to Colt's point: the issue of selection that would obviously fall to Wizards and the necessity of the sum of the members having balanced interests that will benefit the format as a whole. And there's an additional issue with picking members: we wouldn't want a ban maniac like Jeff Hoogland deciding bans and Wizards probably can't tell the difference between him and any other pro.
With 'no changes' the last two announcements, Wizards has been a little more hands off with the banlist, but I doubt it will last forever. I agree with you: if they're going to keep pumping out reprint sets and selling them at ten bucks a pack they should at least have a small, dedicated Modern team, if only to protect their own financial interests.
Exactly what I thought. There is more to bans than just stats. If a deck causes too much bad feels, and is unfun game play, than it will eventually be banned. This explains amulet bloom and storm in modern alot. And I agree with this approach.
A criteria for bans is now officially: tier 1 and unfun
I'm pretty sure that cards from both of those decks were banned for violating the Turn 4 Rule, not due to some completely subjective definition of fun.
So a High Tide deck 5-0'd a league today. As some reddit posters noted, it didn't have any fetches for Branstorm/Ponder and was apparently off in some other ways. Is anybody else still playing High Tide? Is it viable again since CounterTop is dead? Anybody have a current list? It's a really interesting deck.
I've mentioned this before and got totally shut down by people saying it is unrealistic for them to hire people to test modern. My opinion of it is they shouldn't get to claim modern as their own and made ridiculous profit of modern masters sets if they refuse to put any thought into the format themselves. That is obviously on the player base to enforce which is t going to happen; I just think if wizards wants to own modern then they should clearly own it. I think it may help their long term image to hire some people to manage it but they seem to be very short term profit focused at the moment and those views just don't align.
That would be great. They really should get a few level headed people who actually play Modern and give a ***** about the format to keep an eye on it and make banlist decisions like a 'Modern Format Health Committee'. Even if something broken (e.g. Treasure Cruise) made it through R&D Wizards wouldn't have to take time out of their schedules to deal with it because they'd already have somebody on it. Hell, people would volunteer to do something like this, just so the people running the banlist would actually know what they're doing.
I know this has been suggested before. Has anyone actually asked Stoddard/Forsythe/Maro about it?
We've got a very busy week ahead of us, Moderners. In case you haven't seen, announcement week is coming. A couple of things to note.
1) Tomorrow, we will find out about the changes to set design. This could impact how we get reprints, the power level of cards, and ultimately the future of cards entering Modern.
2) The ban list announcement has been moved forward a day and is now scheduled for Tuesday.
3) Wednesday is the traditional Announcement Day: new products, which means potential reprints.
4) Thursday brings Organized Play announcements. We don't know what this means, but it could impact what the formats of future Pro Tours and Grand Prix events will be.
The reason I am posting this here is I understand that some of you may be nervous about these announcements and what they could possibly mean for Modern. Maybe some are nervous about Thursday and whether or not Modern gets less major events. Perhaps the set changes worry you and what the quality of cards and reprints we will get in the future. Ban list updates are also never pleasant for any Modern player. No matter what concerns you, understand that State of the Meta is meant to be a home for productive discussion. In the coming week, remember that your posts must reflect this purpose, and that emotions will run high. There are users who may be nervous or even scared of what this week will bring, so please keep in mind that if your post is not being productive, is not polite, or is attempting to provoke users who have been affected by a change, you need to rethink what you are posting and why. Remember, we all want what we believe is best for Modern -- this week may bring about something that some people see as a step in the wrong direction, and the right direction for others. We've got a lot of uncertainty ahead of us, and while some are comfortable with that, others may not. Please try to understand another user's perspective; that alone will make this week a lot easier for this thread.
Carry on Moderners! --CavalryWolfPack
P.S. This post is not being made out of the current state of the thread. It is not a group warning -- it is a general PSA about what the state of this thread could be in the near future.
"Professor CavalryWolfPack, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our users to crack each others' heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
*edit* PS you're sigged
I'd say Legacy is better, aside from the obvious detriment of the Reserved List.
But Modern is great right now, no doubt, and to me it seems to have hit that stride where it just keeps getting better.
So new prints then?
Hell yeah.
Do you have a link?
God damn that would be so cool.
Thanks for the reply. I'd love to see your list.
Wraith brings up a good point but there has to be a workaround. Maybe make them sign a NDA? I mean cleary Modern players have more knowledge of the format than anyone else, so they're the best candidates for a banlist committee. Of course, some might have a hard time being objective, which brings me to Colt's point: the issue of selection that would obviously fall to Wizards and the necessity of the sum of the members having balanced interests that will benefit the format as a whole. And there's an additional issue with picking members: we wouldn't want a ban maniac like Jeff Hoogland deciding bans and Wizards probably can't tell the difference between him and any other pro.
With 'no changes' the last two announcements, Wizards has been a little more hands off with the banlist, but I doubt it will last forever. I agree with you: if they're going to keep pumping out reprint sets and selling them at ten bucks a pack they should at least have a small, dedicated Modern team, if only to protect their own financial interests.
I'm pretty sure that cards from both of those decks were banned for violating the Turn 4 Rule, not due to some completely subjective definition of fun.
edit: link
That would be great. They really should get a few level headed people who actually play Modern and give a ***** about the format to keep an eye on it and make banlist decisions like a 'Modern Format Health Committee'. Even if something broken (e.g. Treasure Cruise) made it through R&D Wizards wouldn't have to take time out of their schedules to deal with it because they'd already have somebody on it. Hell, people would volunteer to do something like this, just so the people running the banlist would actually know what they're doing.
I know this has been suggested before. Has anyone actually asked Stoddard/Forsythe/Maro about it?
This, at least, is quite an exaggeration.
I agree with Sheridan in that a TS ban would unleash the fury of linear decks rather that resulting in some kind of control renaissance.
That's the one. Planeswalker Party!
It might even be worth it at that point; I'll just play JVP instead and run Bant Turns! CHOO CHOO