I'd be ok trying to cut one Bant Charm, maybe. But I just couldn't see myself dropping them both. Having something in the MB to deal with Chalice on 0 is too important (other than BW). I'll give -1 Bant Charm, -1 Keranos, +2 Supreme Will a try.
See, I'm having the opposite issue. The games that I lose, more often than not, are games where I get a lock started with RB, and then sort of fumble trying to find a way to close out the game before my opponent can get out of the lock and rebuild.
Thus, the need for more digging pieces. And Supreme Will digs 4 cards deep. It is also a reason I run 4 of Cast Out, because not only it is removal, but it has cycling to smooth our draws.
Any suggestions on cuts? I think I'd want to start by running 2 copies of SW. I could cut Keranos, but I'd still need to cut one more card. My list is posted a few comments back.
On the matter of cutting cards for other slots. I will say that I recently was worried about my finishers in the list but after I cut Keranos who I thought was doing fine I felt more consistent with more filtering and lock pieces. I loved having him in the deck for that meant I could have my full art steam punk themed alter of Keranos in my deck but personally cutting him for more control or cutting down to two Nahiri's recently it has felt good even though I went from 13 good finishers to 11 the deck has been better at keeping ahead and finishing the game, after a Restore.
See, I'm having the opposite issue. The games that I lose, more often than not, are games where I get a lock started with RB, and then sort of fumble trying to find a way to close out the game before my opponent can get out of the lock and rebuild.
Just want to drop my two cents on Supreme Will. It serves three purposes in the deck (as far as personal experience is concerned):
1. Early on, it is a card selection spell, allowing the deck to get what it needs at the current moment, whether it be a land/borderpost, a removal, or a cascade spell. In short, it contributes to more consistent plays, which RB lists struggle due to the deck building limitation/restriction.
2. Late game, it becomes a hard counter (due to RB's land destruction clause), especially with the heavy borderpost builds. It protects our threats from their removal and counters pesky spells aimed at us.
3. It serves as a sideboard flex spot. Because of the counter clause, we can, in additional to our sideboard options, run more hate against things not answered by Restore Balance or their answers against our gameplay. It also allows the deck to have the deck more slots if we need to board in many cards (though there are very few times that we do that). It also helps us dig cards we boarded in.
Early on, players playing UX RB lists opted for Thieves' Fortune due to the card selection alone. Now we have a strictly better version of it, which IMO should be run by any RB list sporting U.
You make a very good case for Supreme Will. I would really like to try it, however I am at the point where it is getting hard to test cards because I don't know what to cut. The only thing I've thought about cutting is Keranos. However, I don't want to cut Keranos for SW, because I don't want to reduce my number of closers.
Jenn: How's Gideon playing? Are you able to cast Keranos most of the games where you've drawn it?
I have found Culling Scales to be of use against a particular deck that I still can't overcome, Abzan Traverse. How do you get by Kataki, Stony Silence, and Surgical Extraction?
I bring in 2 Scales, 2 Wear//Tear, and 2 Timely Reinforcement (Sometimes it's 1/1 w/ Oketra). Drawing an efficient reply for the Kataki is rough. Boarding out Posts as a retort seems stretched.
I'm playing your list essentially, little different removal w/ two spheres. Have you tried out Supreme Will?
People hate me at FNM when RB comes out of it's box. The MD leylines really make people want to stab you, if the complete annihilation of their board didn't already
Gideon is great! I'm rarely unhappy to see him. Keranos does sometimes feel expensive, however he mostly shines in control and midrange matchups, which are the matchups that tend to go longer, so I usually end up getting to five mana. He always gets baorded out against faster decks.
Kataki, Stony Silence, and Surgical are tough. Kataki is the least of my worries, since we have a lot of creature removal in the deck. I always board in Wear/Tear when I expect Stony. All I really have against Surgical is Mistveil Plains and a prayer, lol. I will often board out a post or two if I'm expecting a lot of hate.
I haven't tried Supreme Will yet, but it is on my list of cards to try.
First of all good luck this weekend! Second how have Culling Scales and Anger of the Gods been out of the board. I've considered using Scales but didn't know how it faired.
Anger used to be in my main board, but it eventually got moved to the side. However, I don't think I'd ever want to run a 75 without it. The exile clause is just too good.
Culling Scales is...ok. It's currently on the chopping block as far as my sideboard goes, I just haven't found something to replace them with yet.
How has Vessel of Endless Rest worked out for you? I almost wonder if you could replace the 2 vessels and the ds colossus with a few Metalwork Colossus. I feel like they would be more effective for you, though admittedly I've never tried a Saheeli variant of RB.
Also, I'll be at the SCG Classic this weekend (couldn't find a team for the Open) playing RB. Here's the list I'm taking:
I like the list a fair bit but I do have some ideas or thoughts about the list overall. One of those being the Simian Spirit guides, or as I will call them for the ease of this the monkeys. When I first started this deck I thought that the monkeys were quite valuable and that they were good. Then as i played more and more I wasn't impressed by them. On occasion they were decent but never that good and one of the reason that I personally don't like them is that I rarely wanted to Restore before turn three. I preferred to take away more resources and just use my life total as a resource to abuse. That said the monkeys might fit in the deck just not in my meta, or in where I believe the meta to be. I prefer to go with a slower main board with more hate and control with sideboardable interaction for the faster decks. One of the other things I've tried recently and vouch for immensely is the Sideboard cards of Odds//Ends and Oketra's Last Mercy, these have been all stars in my deck and have easily replace Ricochet Trap and Timely Reinforcement. Where i still like trap as a card and have a 1/1 split of the two I believe the Oketra upgrade is just better for this deck. Finally I don't critique to much but I do believe personally that you may have to many mana sources, with the high concentration of lands with a higher concentration of borderpost. With both you have 26 total sources now many on this thread from my experience have opted for higher lands and less borderpost or a higher concentration of lands and border post but I've settled on 23 or 24 mana producing sources. (Not including As Fortold) My last thing to plague you with is as mentioned above that the dredge match up is quite poor and even though it is harder to cast I believe Anger of the Gods will assist you in the second worst match up of dredge, the worst being burn.
I think the monkeys are just too important for this deck. Yes, modern isn't as fast as it used to be, but it is still a fast format. Especially if you are playing the cascade version, you won't be doing much before turn 3 except playing some borderposts. SSG allows us to ramp into early game plays. Most importantly, SSG allows for turn 1 or turn 2 Blood Moon, which just makes some decks fold entirely.
Keep us posted on how testing goes with Kess. I certainly understand the appeal for making the switch from Dralnu to Kess. For me though, there are a couple reasons why I haven't felt the need to make the switch:
1) three colors can complicate your mana base, and an important part of any control deck is making sure you are as mana-efficient as possible
2) I think Kess will replace Jeleva as the go-to Grixis storm commander and will earn a reputation for being a storm commander
3) The biggest issue for me is the fact that Kess is limited to once per your turn. This prevents both Paradox Engine shenanigans, as well as casting spells from your graveyard on your opponents' turn
That being said, most of those reasons are more personal than everything, so I think Kess can be a totally viable option if you want to add red to this type of deck.
Side note: Weebos, I love the Magi Nation reference. Haven't thought of that game in years...
The idea here is that, pre-balance, the enchantments are immune to Restore Balance. And these enchantments are all control enchantments. Cast Out is very crucial for having Flash and Cycling. Detention Sphere serves as the pseudo-Anger of the Gods against token decks. And the deck has plenty of answers to nonland, noncreature permananents (especially Planeswalkers) which is one of the problems of a Balance list. This deck also takes advantage of Supreme Will as more of card selection rather than hard counter.
Suggestions and comments are certainly welcome and appreciated. Thanks!
I really like this idea and would love to hear how it ends up working for you. At first glance, I have two comments: 1) this seems like an obvious place for As Foretold. It fits the enchantment theme, and I think the card is too good to pass up. I don't think you need 4 copies, though. I like to run 2. and 2) I think Tezz is probably better off as a single copy, instead of 2. It seems like you really don't want to draw an extra copy and he's really just your fall back win-con.
Ixalan is here, which means we have a new bunch of cards to look at. Unfortunately, I haven't had a ton of time to play magic recently, but that doesn't stop me from theory-crafting! Also, I'm hoping that will change soon, which is especially good because there are a few cards worth testing in Ixalan:
Fleet Swallower - Big reanimation targets have a high bar to meet in this deck, since they're fighting for slots along side the like of Jin-Gitaxias. The Swallower is probably too slow to warrant inclusion in this deck, but there's one word in that text box that makes me think I'll give it a try. "Player." That's right. This is no Nemesis of Reason. If we get to swing with the Swallower, we can target ourselves and put half of our library into or graveyard, which feels quite potent in this deck. Spell Swindle - Probably too expensive, but a Mana Drain whose mana doesn't have to be used all at once gets my attention even for 5 mana. Dire Fleet Ravager - This card almost makes me think of Kokusho. Yes, the dragon is more potent since he's gaining us life as well, but this ETB ability has enough of an impact that I might test him as another reanimation target. Search for Azcanta - Probably the card I'm most excited for here. It fills our graveyard and draws us cards. I'm not sure what I'd cut, but this flip-land definitely has my attention. Primal Amulet - This is likely too slow but man, having a land that copies our instants and sorceries has a LOT of potential. Another one I'm very excited to test.
And there you have it. Quite a lot of cards to test. Nothing that screams "auto-include," but I'm overall I'm happy with the set, even if I haven't been able to play it yet.
has anyone tried Oketra's last mercy to deal with burn? Perhaps Bontu's last reckoning as a cheap wrath?
I run two copies of Oketra's Last Mercy in my sideboard. Originally I ran Timely Reinforcements, but I like Mercy better. I think Burn is the only match-up where I bring in Mercy, but that match-up is bad enough to warrant two dedicated SB slots, imo.
I think in Modern, having Blood Moon kill Cavern of Souls completely outweighs having shocks come in untapped (as mountains) without paying life. Meaning, it's overall a good thing for us (or, at worst, neutral).
Any suggestions on cuts? I think I'd want to start by running 2 copies of SW. I could cut Keranos, but I'd still need to cut one more card. My list is posted a few comments back.
See, I'm having the opposite issue. The games that I lose, more often than not, are games where I get a lock started with RB, and then sort of fumble trying to find a way to close out the game before my opponent can get out of the lock and rebuild.
You make a very good case for Supreme Will. I would really like to try it, however I am at the point where it is getting hard to test cards because I don't know what to cut. The only thing I've thought about cutting is Keranos. However, I don't want to cut Keranos for SW, because I don't want to reduce my number of closers.
Gideon is great! I'm rarely unhappy to see him. Keranos does sometimes feel expensive, however he mostly shines in control and midrange matchups, which are the matchups that tend to go longer, so I usually end up getting to five mana. He always gets baorded out against faster decks.
Kataki, Stony Silence, and Surgical are tough. Kataki is the least of my worries, since we have a lot of creature removal in the deck. I always board in Wear/Tear when I expect Stony. All I really have against Surgical is Mistveil Plains and a prayer, lol. I will often board out a post or two if I'm expecting a lot of hate.
I haven't tried Supreme Will yet, but it is on my list of cards to try.
Anger used to be in my main board, but it eventually got moved to the side. However, I don't think I'd ever want to run a 75 without it. The exile clause is just too good.
Culling Scales is...ok. It's currently on the chopping block as far as my sideboard goes, I just haven't found something to replace them with yet.
Also, I'll be at the SCG Classic this weekend (couldn't find a team for the Open) playing RB. Here's the list I'm taking:
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
Planeswalker
1 Gideon of the Trials
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Enchantment
4 Ardent Plea
2 As Foretold
2 Blood Moon
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Simian Spirit Guide
Instant
2 Bant Charm
1 Beast Within
4 Violent Outburst
Sorcery
3 Restore Balance
Artifact
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Blood Moon
2 Culling Scales
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Oketra's Last Mercy
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Ricochet Trap
2 Wear / Tear
I think the monkeys are just too important for this deck. Yes, modern isn't as fast as it used to be, but it is still a fast format. Especially if you are playing the cascade version, you won't be doing much before turn 3 except playing some borderposts. SSG allows us to ramp into early game plays. Most importantly, SSG allows for turn 1 or turn 2 Blood Moon, which just makes some decks fold entirely.
1) three colors can complicate your mana base, and an important part of any control deck is making sure you are as mana-efficient as possible
2) I think Kess will replace Jeleva as the go-to Grixis storm commander and will earn a reputation for being a storm commander
3) The biggest issue for me is the fact that Kess is limited to once per your turn. This prevents both Paradox Engine shenanigans, as well as casting spells from your graveyard on your opponents' turn
That being said, most of those reasons are more personal than everything, so I think Kess can be a totally viable option if you want to add red to this type of deck.
Side note: Weebos, I love the Magi Nation reference. Haven't thought of that game in years...
I really like this idea and would love to hear how it ends up working for you. At first glance, I have two comments: 1) this seems like an obvious place for As Foretold. It fits the enchantment theme, and I think the card is too good to pass up. I don't think you need 4 copies, though. I like to run 2. and 2) I think Tezz is probably better off as a single copy, instead of 2. It seems like you really don't want to draw an extra copy and he's really just your fall back win-con.
Fleet Swallower - Big reanimation targets have a high bar to meet in this deck, since they're fighting for slots along side the like of Jin-Gitaxias. The Swallower is probably too slow to warrant inclusion in this deck, but there's one word in that text box that makes me think I'll give it a try. "Player." That's right. This is no Nemesis of Reason. If we get to swing with the Swallower, we can target ourselves and put half of our library into or graveyard, which feels quite potent in this deck.
Spell Swindle - Probably too expensive, but a Mana Drain whose mana doesn't have to be used all at once gets my attention even for 5 mana.
Dire Fleet Ravager - This card almost makes me think of Kokusho. Yes, the dragon is more potent since he's gaining us life as well, but this ETB ability has enough of an impact that I might test him as another reanimation target.
Search for Azcanta - Probably the card I'm most excited for here. It fills our graveyard and draws us cards. I'm not sure what I'd cut, but this flip-land definitely has my attention.
Primal Amulet - This is likely too slow but man, having a land that copies our instants and sorceries has a LOT of potential. Another one I'm very excited to test.
And there you have it. Quite a lot of cards to test. Nothing that screams "auto-include," but I'm overall I'm happy with the set, even if I haven't been able to play it yet.
I run two copies of Oketra's Last Mercy in my sideboard. Originally I ran Timely Reinforcements, but I like Mercy better. I think Burn is the only match-up where I bring in Mercy, but that match-up is bad enough to warrant two dedicated SB slots, imo.