Yes, I clearly didn't copy and paste that, because I never copy and paste my role pms, because I don't want to be accused of "copying role pms". I know it's unlikely I get in trouble for that, but better safe than sorry.
Still doesn't explain the blue.
And I figured townie mason was relevant considering that we're not mod confirmed, and I've actually been a neutral mason before on this site.
Whether or not you're mod confirmed, its not like you're going to claim mafia mason.
Although its been a while since I've been town with a decent role and survived to day 2.
For me, being scum takes a lot out of the game. For one, there is no scumhunting. And secondly, your job is to create lynches on people you know are town, which sometimes leads to some bad feelings.
Being a cop just makes scumhunting easier, being a doctor takes no effort, just protect the power roles, and being a vig allows you to do things unilaterally. If the choice were a town vig, I would put it above doctor, possibly tied with cop.
As for ced's scenario: the experienced player, unless you think he's likely to get shot, in which case you can hope to use that as confirmation. Otherwise the lurker. If you investigate the scummy player, best case they are scum and get lynched anyways, worst case they are town and you have to out yourself to prevent your investigation from going to waste.
(Yes, I know. Impatience shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone, but I'm dying here. It's been around 5 days since I last posted. Nothing is changing - no new enlightenment even after the new replacements - so yeah, I've just about had it with D1.)
I find it significantly harder to have new revelations as a replacement. You're in catchup mode from the start, not reread mode.
N_A is the liar here, though. kpaca didn't kill DYH. I did.
Doesn't mean kpaca couldn't have aimed in that direction as well. I highly doubt the mafia would have shot MTG_Junkie.
It should now be obvious why I knew Shad was lying - I am "The Battle of Evermore", the actual one-shot vig.
So now we have two vigs wasting their single shots on decent players early in the game.
Poor decisions aside, I think Nom_Anor is telling the truth. There is no reason to claim false results as scum to get only a single player lynched.
As for kpaca: he clearly did not copy his name from his role pm (as he spelled it wrong), and so I am quite curious as to why he decided to blue his role. That and I'm surprised to see "town" in front of mason. My role makes no mention of alignment, except in the win condition.
- Andelijah : I really want to see him explain his vote against CPE. It's his main contribution to the thread, and I have no idea where he's coming from. (this is a confused read)
I thought his first few posts severely lacked content. If you don't see that, then more explanation is not going to help.
Since then, however, I would like to add that he forgot who he was suspecting, something I have difficulty believing he would do as town.
Folks, note just how much andelijah didn't even bother to respond to here. It's not even that andelijah is making bad points that I can debunk, he's making points he doesn't even have the conviction enough to fight me on.
There is little point in following up on points that will turn into some sort of "yes you did" "no I didn't" type of argument.
He doesn't respond the the very first point of the case, which is ironic since it was an accusation of making points I didn't intend to follow up on.
I have followed up my points, with a vote and more points. You asked questions that got answered, but you didn't do anything with those answers. You said that I'm claiming to know your intentions, however, to which I will say see point 1.
He doesn't respond to my indictment of disregarding relevant posts of mine in favor of focusing on my early posts. He has nothing to say about being obviously wrong in his point about Charm Master.
You are arguing that your lack of specific language in this post is explained by a different post.
He has nothing to say about my response to his WoD point even though there's still plenty of room to argue his side.
Again, I've explained my side, you've given yours. There is nothing to debate here.
He also doesn't call me out for OMGUSing which I would expect anyone who thought I was honestly scum would do.
OMGUS is a weak tell with certain specific player exceptions. And had I called you out for OMGUS, you would have pointed immediately to your earlier stance on Charm Master and claimed otherwise.
Fantastic response. First, if you find these insulting you've got really thin skin.
You don't have to take offense for something to be an insult.
Second, where is the scum tell?
You're an antagonist, therefore you act accordingly. These types of posts put down observations and posts and encourage people to continue with neither.
So, when I pointed out that Chris had ironically voted me for bandwagoning while himself bandwagoning, it wasn't serious because it had a smiley?
You must have used at least 15 smilies, finding one exception does not disprove my point. And I'm sure there were also non-serious statements without smilies as well.
OK, sure. Now point to where I've done that after the first couple pages of the game? Attacking someone for having a joking tone during the early stages of the game... it's mind-boggling nonsense.
This is 100-200 posts in, after several serious votes.
That + would be netfinity. Thanks for reading.
And that makes 6, a majority.
Once again, where is the scumtell?
Scum need mislynches. For mislynches, they need suspects.
What's your point? Do you expect extensive cases to back up every suspicion on day 1?
No, but it shouldn't take 3 posts for you to explain a vote.
You accused me of not explaining my suspicion and only calling for other people to justify why they don't think he's scum. That's 100% false.
You have on at least 3 occasions disliked a post by kpaca, and only briefly explained one of them (after you revoted him).
Are you saying I'm not?
Indeed.
Once again: what scum tell?
What were you expecting to happen after you made that point?
By the way, this is also hypocritical since you've made a couple pokes at Azrael without taking any stance on him.
I made no pokes at his alignment.
This is the same basic tell you accused me of doing towards kpaca: just pointing at something and calling it scummy and letting other players decide why.
What you're doing with kpaca is calling him scummy and asking other players why they disagree with you.
And lurking is generally considered.... suspicious?
Gee, there hasn't been any discussion about this has there? "Insults other players" is a worthless point that doesn't nothing except colour me as a villain.
Quote from 110 »
Congratulations! You have just earned your Ph.D. in Obviousness!
Quote from 150 »
I'll take, "Vague and Unhelpful Answers" for $400, Alex.
.
A.) What makes you think that post wasn't serious?
Look at the absurd number of smilies in your early posts, most of which, if not all, follow a non-serious point.
B.) So what? Where, exactly, is the scum tell in whether a player is acting seriously? This is a game, you know.
It becomes a tell when explaining your vote and trying to put pressure on those that you suspect take a back seat to making jokes.
Because... I mentioned three players I found suspicious? This point is so bogus. You're exaggerating and ignoring the stances I've taken recently in favor of focusing on early reads.
+kpaca, +toastboy, +
Quote from 158 »
I noted interest in the people who came to my defense, not in who attacked me.
I gave reasons for my suspicion of kpaca here, long before my post which you quoted, AND also in a subsequent post which is quoted and linked in the same damn post you just linked to:
Your reason is a paragraph long explanation that you think he is trying to hard.
If you're town you're being sloppy as hell; I think you're looking to justify a vote on an easy target.
Xyre is an easy target. toastboy would have been an easy target (:rolleyes:). You are scum.
Lord forbid I make a probing comment on someone's behavior without outright reversing my position on that player.
Why would he forbid scum tells?
That would be because nothing changed between that post and the other posts where I did explain my reasons.
Haven't seen much to change my reads. Points against Phantom aren't particularly convincing, especially not compared to the fairly strong town read I have from his reaction to my vote.
Haven't a clue why everyone keeps saying kpaca is town.
Still hate Charms play. Covenient he replaces out while digging himself a hole. I look forward to ande's more developed thoughts.
WoD's analysis is odd; basically reading every action as intended to do the opposite as it normally would. Not sold on him being scum.
Netfinity is an enigma. I'm not fond of his weak attack on Azreal, but I have a hard timing believing scum would see Azrael as the weak member of the pack. Weird.
Kinda wondering why Az is moving his vote around if he's so certain Xyre is scum and atleast some people agree.
Only solid read here is Phantom = town.
kpaca = scum, maybe, but he doesn't appear eager to convince everyone else, and he's giving this read through the negative (wants other people to prove kpaca is town for him, rather than him prove kpaca is scum). Note, he also does that here.
Doesn't like Charm Master's play - but that is unspecific in terms of alignment (and in some cases, in terms of which game as well). The "digging a hole" comment means scum? but he doesn't really go out of his way to prove that assertion.
Wrath of Dog is odd, and Netfinity is confusing and weird. Again, no tell on alignment.
And the Azrael point lacks a conclusion either way as well, although I would say it is a somewhat leading observation.
Despite being a post with reads on several other players, I would say there are, at most, 3 reads, and even those aren't presented with any sort of belief behind them.
he instead outed not just himself but another doc. I would not be surprised to see Ged get NKed at all.
So.... you think Cyan is scum, yet you also believe he "outed Ged." If the former were true, he would have already known Ged's role and had no reason to share it with everyone else.
That and you have Wrath of Dog and Cyan on the same scum list. Considering one is killing the other, I'm not sure how you rationalize that.
I will be away without internet until late Friday/early Saturday visiting family.
Yes, what a waste of time to get someone to take his place, provide thoughts on the game, and actually be able to claim when within range and possibly provide useful information. Yup, much better to just speed lynch him and move on to night.
I'm looking at it from the replacement's perspective: he reads 1000 posts (it'll at least be there by the time DYH even finds one), you get to give your quick opinions on everyone before being wagoned for play you can't really defend and possibly lynched, wasting his entire effort.
This is even assuming he's town, something I highly doubt.
As I said, the other approach is to let Ace be replaced and back off of him until his replacement commits scum tells where we can wagon him for that. And again, since I think he is scum, I think this is a subpar plan.
Nope, didn't fail to look at that at all. Nice of you to mention the first half of my sentence and not the second half. Of those 5 people who are "willing to vote Ace", two of them simply expressed interest and a perhaps a willingness to vote provided Ace's response was insufficient to sway (I should know; I was one of those two). So you have 4 votes, 3 "I'll probably vote", and 2 "wagon may have merit" out of 20 non-Ace players. Again, I'd hardly call that a consensus.
Then you didn't read my post. 9 leaning to definitely pro-voting Ace vs 3 (Edit: 2 - RafaelK said otherwise) who gave the opposite read. 8 non-Ace players hadn't bothered to give their opinion. Of those who did, voting Ace was a vast majority.
Honestly andel your last couple of posts have been horrible. Your reasoning on why to lynch Ace has been horrible, and your reasoning about the three possible corses is appalling. They really fail to take into account his RL reasoning for wanting to replace, which knowing this situation for a while now, is perfectly reasonable and should not have any affect on Ace.
His real life reason is irrelevant. I think he is scum, and I think he needs to be lynched. Believing it is unfair to force a replacement to come in and be lynched, I am advocating continuing without one. If there isn't enough support for a lynch anyways, the point becomes moot, but that's not going to make me move my vote.
I am willing to let a replacement in, but your insistence that replacing Ace would be a waste of the mod's time is strange and seem to stem from a scum mindset.
Unless I'm forgetting something, my last completed game as mafia was Persona. Prior to that was Dictionary. My last completed town game was Harry Potter. You were in all three.
I was hoping for something more recent than Harry Potter, especially because I died shortly after you replaced in.
BS. Dropping out under these circumstances should not affect the lynch at all either way. If there was already a consensus to lynch it would be one thing. Instead for the second time today you have taken the laziest option possible to get someone killed. Really not looking good for you
I am moving to get my top 3 suspects lynched. I dropped Archmage Eternal for now due to lack of support (since somehow his claim is clearing), can't go after Wrath of Dog because he is getting vigged, and now Ace is replacing out.
I think Ace is scum. I think it would be a waste of our, the mod's, and especially the replacement's time to have him replace in and be immediately wagoned potentially to a lynch.
As for "there are only 4 people voting him" - you failed to look at the non-voters. Combined, there are 9 people who are currently voting or who stated they are willing to vote Ace.
Actually doing a reread of Ace, PM has brought up a lot of good points. His last post with the barbie defense is really god awful and does nothing to make think better of him.
See, no one is saying you should be doing that instead. The point is that one would expect a townie to weigh in on important matters, not that they would do that to the exclusion of everything else. Scumhunting elsewhere when you're not sold on the most prominent wagon is all well and good, but avoiding adding anything to the discussion on the most prominent wagon is not. andelijah's comment about Guardman having "conviction under pressure" is a reasonable point, but I can't say it sells me on his innocence.
I do like PM's case on Ace though. Depending on how he responds, I may move my vote.
I agree with the recent case and pressure on Ace. Heck, I outlined 568 posts ago the reasons I felt he was scum, and certainly nothing has changed from then until now that would nullify this scum points and make him appear more townie. In regards to Guardman from my post 310, I still feel he's scum and the above post is likely a bus IMO. Either way, he's trying to redirect attention off of himself as best as possible, and realistically, one is just a better lynch than the other.
On Ace: PM's summary is pretty strong, and Ace's defence lacking in any real strength.
I am happy to support pressure on Ace and Guardman, and will move my vote to Ace if the wagon overtakes Guardman's.
(remaining two being Pale Mage and ced, both of whom have votes on Ace)
So far there are 3 people who have stated the opposite read (Jobie, Ged, RafaelK).
Whether or not you're mod confirmed, its not like you're going to claim mafia mason.
Doctor
Vig
...
Scum
Although its been a while since I've been town with a decent role and survived to day 2.
For me, being scum takes a lot out of the game. For one, there is no scumhunting. And secondly, your job is to create lynches on people you know are town, which sometimes leads to some bad feelings.
Being a cop just makes scumhunting easier, being a doctor takes no effort, just protect the power roles, and being a vig allows you to do things unilaterally. If the choice were a town vig, I would put it above doctor, possibly tied with cop.
As for ced's scenario: the experienced player, unless you think he's likely to get shot, in which case you can hope to use that as confirmation. Otherwise the lurker. If you investigate the scummy player, best case they are scum and get lynched anyways, worst case they are town and you have to out yourself to prevent your investigation from going to waste.
Doesn't mean kpaca couldn't have aimed in that direction as well. I highly doubt the mafia would have shot MTG_Junkie.
So now we have two vigs wasting their single shots on decent players early in the game.
Poor decisions aside, I think Nom_Anor is telling the truth. There is no reason to claim false results as scum to get only a single player lynched.
As for kpaca: he clearly did not copy his name from his role pm (as he spelled it wrong), and so I am quite curious as to why he decided to blue his role. That and I'm surprised to see "town" in front of mason. My role makes no mention of alignment, except in the win condition.
Vote: kpaca
Since then, however, I would like to add that he forgot who he was suspecting, something I have difficulty believing he would do as town.
Vote: creampuffeater
I have followed up my points, with a vote and more points. You asked questions that got answered, but you didn't do anything with those answers. You said that I'm claiming to know your intentions, however, to which I will say see point 1.
You are arguing that your lack of specific language in this post is explained by a different post.
Again, I've explained my side, you've given yours. There is nothing to debate here.
OMGUS is a weak tell with certain specific player exceptions. And had I called you out for OMGUS, you would have pointed immediately to your earlier stance on Charm Master and claimed otherwise.
You don't have to take offense for something to be an insult.
You're an antagonist, therefore you act accordingly. These types of posts put down observations and posts and encourage people to continue with neither.
You must have used at least 15 smilies, finding one exception does not disprove my point. And I'm sure there were also non-serious statements without smilies as well.
This is 100-200 posts in, after several serious votes.
And that makes 6, a majority.
Scum need mislynches. For mislynches, they need suspects.
No, but it shouldn't take 3 posts for you to explain a vote.
You have on at least 3 occasions disliked a post by kpaca, and only briefly explained one of them (after you revoted him).
Indeed.
What were you expecting to happen after you made that point?
I made no pokes at his alignment.
What you're doing with kpaca is calling him scummy and asking other players why they disagree with you.
Depends entirely on the player.
.
Look at the absurd number of smilies in your early posts, most of which, if not all, follow a non-serious point.
It becomes a tell when explaining your vote and trying to put pressure on those that you suspect take a back seat to making jokes.
+kpaca, +toastboy, +
Your reason is a paragraph long explanation that you think he is trying to hard.
Xyre is an easy target. toastboy would have been an easy target (:rolleyes:). You are scum.
Why would he forbid scum tells?
You, Xyre, and Netfinity found Charm Master scummy. Chris and Skander mentioned him in the context of lurking.
More in depth of one post:
Only solid read here is Phantom = town.
kpaca = scum, maybe, but he doesn't appear eager to convince everyone else, and he's giving this read through the negative (wants other people to prove kpaca is town for him, rather than him prove kpaca is scum). Note, he also does that here.
Doesn't like Charm Master's play - but that is unspecific in terms of alignment (and in some cases, in terms of which game as well). The "digging a hole" comment means scum? but he doesn't really go out of his way to prove that assertion.
Wrath of Dog is odd, and Netfinity is confusing and weird. Again, no tell on alignment.
And the Azrael point lacks a conclusion either way as well, although I would say it is a somewhat leading observation.
Despite being a post with reads on several other players, I would say there are, at most, 3 reads, and even those aren't presented with any sort of belief behind them.
I will be away until Friday/Saturday visiting family. I'll have more to add when I get back.
That and you have Wrath of Dog and Cyan on the same scum list. Considering one is killing the other, I'm not sure how you rationalize that.
I will be away without internet until late Friday/early Saturday visiting family.
This is even assuming he's town, something I highly doubt.
As I said, the other approach is to let Ace be replaced and back off of him until his replacement commits scum tells where we can wagon him for that. And again, since I think he is scum, I think this is a subpar plan.
Then you didn't read my post. 9 leaning to definitely pro-voting Ace vs 3 (Edit: 2 - RafaelK said otherwise) who gave the opposite read. 8 non-Ace players hadn't bothered to give their opinion. Of those who did, voting Ace was a vast majority.
His real life reason is irrelevant. I think he is scum, and I think he needs to be lynched. Believing it is unfair to force a replacement to come in and be lynched, I am advocating continuing without one. If there isn't enough support for a lynch anyways, the point becomes moot, but that's not going to make me move my vote.
I clearly disagree, but elaborate?
Not sure why you disagree with my plan if you think Ace is scum.
Wait, yes I am sure.
I've already gone over why I think this plan is better than the other two. I didn't say it was perfect, I just don't like the other options.
Hard to explain completely - I'll go through his posts at some point to try to explain in greater depths.
I am moving to get my top 3 suspects lynched. I dropped Archmage Eternal for now due to lack of support (since somehow his claim is clearing), can't go after Wrath of Dog because he is getting vigged, and now Ace is replacing out.
I think Ace is scum. I think it would be a waste of our, the mod's, and especially the replacement's time to have him replace in and be immediately wagoned potentially to a lynch.
As for "there are only 4 people voting him" - you failed to look at the non-voters. Combined, there are 9 people who are currently voting or who stated they are willing to vote Ace.
So far there are 3 people who have stated the opposite read (Jobie, Ged, RafaelK).