Hey guys, I was playing UR Pyro for a bit until eventually deciding to move back to Grixis Control, but decided to try something a bit different. Taking inspiration from Mardu Pyromancer, this is a very tap-out heavy list that's designed to use discard to clear removal and disrupt aggressive strategies before dropping a Young Pyromancer or delve fatty into play.
It feels like it turns the corner a bit more aggressively than classic Grixis lists tend to, mostly because you don't have to wait to hold up countermagic after stripping away your opponent's removal spells.
I only just took it for it's first spin tonight, going 3-1, which isn't terrible. Wins against Ad Naus, Jeskai Control, and a close win against Affinity. Lost to Blue Tron, which is to be mostly expected.
Mana base feels like it can be tightened a bit, going to swap out the Drowned Catacombs for Darkslick Shores when I get the opportunity to pick one up. Sideboard isn't terrible, but still a work in progress.
i dont know about you guys but my meta has become more than 50% creature aggro decks like zoo, bots, and infect. this is why i moved my 2 angers into the main. tomorrow will be my first test. i feel that the izzet charm will serve its purpose at whatever point in the game i draw it.
if anyone has any suggestions or tips from things they have encountered let me know. always looking for weird angles and cool interactions.
I still personally feel like running 2 Angers mainboard is generally a good idea. It cleans up the board against a lot of MUs where you get behind if you can't 1-for-1 everything, and snapping it back can help grind into the late game very well.
Izzet Charm is flexible, but I think either Roast or Harvest Pyre would be better in it's place. It's flexible, yeah, but I feel like you want to run more hard removal. Our deck hates Tarmogoyfs as-is, especially if you aren't packing some Shackles.
I like the list, but running 3 spell snares over 3 mana leaks here really irks me. Snare is great, but I'd like to run fewer counters that are so narrow.
Anyone else try running some main board Anger of the Gods? It feels quite good against most aggressive decks in the format, which tend to inherently be our bad match ups. On top of that, it can clean up quite well after having used one of our turns to suspend Ancestral Vision and we're behind on board.
I mean Engineered Explosives and Anger of the Gods aren't really board cards that are good against a specific deck. It's good against a lot of smaller creature decks, which currently there are quite a lot of.
I forgot the Tron MU is bad, but Merfolk has been laughable to me. They have a hard time against any UR deck running a serious snap-bolt package, as it's difficult for them to seriously build up a board presence. It also helps I run Engineered Explosives and two Angers in the 75.
I like AV better in decks that want to spend the early turns stabilizing, as AV lets them refill after dumping a bunch of counters/removal (uwr/grixis control)
As a Blue Moon player, this is precisely correct. Though my list is currently running a 2-3 split between SV and AV, letting me set up some early draws and refill my hand later on as well.
Just curious, but can I gauge what people think are good/bad MUs for this deck?
I've played this deck for over 2 months now, and the only real decks I've had a rough time against seem to be Bogles (for obvious reasons), Naya Blitz, and for whatever reason Infect has given me a rough time.
Burn can be a bit difficult, but honestly with all the deck's early interaction and Moon shutting off their splashed spells, I've had Burn opponents scoop immediately to a resolved Batterskull.
Most other MUs seem to be 50/50 to favorable so long as you can pull through on making tight, correct lines of play.
The kind of decks I play any CA at all in tend to be Midrange, where I care more about a specific card than just loading up. If all I care about is raw cards, I'd be prone to Phyrexian Arena.
But Modern's midrange decks - notably Jund - revolve around raw CA. Their whole game plan is having better mid to late game top decks than their opponent and being very grindy. On top of that, while they don't run Arena they do run Bob.
Selection can be fine in some combo decks, but when most of your grindy deck is filled with efficient threats and answers, I think you'd rather grab a fistful of them than dig for more specific ones slightly deeper.
This probably sounds bad but thoughts on the thopter combo in Blue Moon? It gives you inevitability in this deck and a nice wincon. Plus this deck only runs Shackles for other artifact so artifact hate doesn't hurt you so badly.
Modern Nexus writer toyed with this idea. Premise seems interesting, but it feels too strongly artifact based. I already hate most of the Maindeck finishers getting hosed by artifact hate, so this list turns be off a bit. Of course other people may want to tweak it and give it a spin.
Most Modern lists that would consider either card would prefer the extra card to the extra dig. Raw CA is just very powerful period, especially in the kinds of Grixis, Abzan, and Jund decks that need to draw more good stuff to win, not look for a particular card. Although there are situations where even those decks are digging for something specific, particularly in games 2-3, it is more common for them to just want the raw card draw. I would stick with Truths.
I agree that I want the raw card draw but painful mana costs of casting painful truths combined with the 3 life up front seems steep compared to being able to cast read the bones with ease. Since burn/aggro is a problematic matchup for these decks is does raise the risk of truths being a dead card most of the time in bad matchups.
I mean, I doubt you would be running more than 1-2 in your main deck. In those numbers it shouldn't drastically affect the Burn MU.
On top of that, if you really need to you can Truths for X=2 or 1, if necessary and you have the mana for it. While it still won't dig as much as Read the Bones, the life loss comparison becomes fairly pointless.
While Truths nets more card advantage, Read the Bones digs harder.
In three color fair decks - like Jund, Abzan, or Grixis - you want to run truths for the greater card advantage.
In more unfair decks - like BR / Grixis Reanimator - Read the Bones is better. It digs deeper to find those combo pieces you need to win the game.
I feel like this is the main difference between the two cards, and where you should run one over the other.
Honestly if you want to toy with Nahiri, you should just play straight Jeskai Control - in which case, you probably don't need her to begin with, since the white removal package is basically all-encompassing as it is, and doesn't require stuff to be tapped down. And as said above, if you want the card selection, just run the Loothouse.
@TalesFromAtlantis Your list seems very similar to mine. Cutting a Blood Moon to run a 2/3 split of SV/AV worked out well for you? I'm always very partial on cutting them since you always want them before your opponent properly fixes their mana, but with enough card draw I guess going down to 3 from 4 is correct?
I've always only run 3 Blood Moon. I hate the feeling of drawing multiples, although there are some matchups where we need the T3 Moon. Maybe I've just had good luck, or mulligans aggressively enough, that it hasn't been a problem yet. In my head, I'm still undecided about the 2/3 split of Serum and Ancestral or if I should just go back to 4 Serum and add another Pia and Kiran. I'm going to keep testing before the IQs and will hopefully be a little more confident on those numbers by then.
As stated above, I feel some number of Ancestral is good in the main deck. Drawing a fist full of burn/threats seems very good at closing out the late game. It is slow, but as long as you think and don't obsessively cast it on turn 1 if you have some early interaction - which I feel is the correct play - it can be quite good.
@TalesFromAtlantis Your list seems very similar to mine. Cutting a Blood Moon to run a 2/3 split of SV/AV worked out well for you? I'm always very partial on cutting them since you always want them before your opponent properly fixes their mana, but with enough card draw I guess going down to 3 from 4 is correct?
EDIT: Also surprised you don't run another Batterskull in the side, your meta must be pretty grindy.
It feels like it turns the corner a bit more aggressively than classic Grixis lists tend to, mostly because you don't have to wait to hold up countermagic after stripping away your opponent's removal spells.
I only just took it for it's first spin tonight, going 3-1, which isn't terrible. Wins against Ad Naus, Jeskai Control, and a close win against Affinity. Lost to Blue Tron, which is to be mostly expected.
Mana base feels like it can be tightened a bit, going to swap out the Drowned Catacombs for Darkslick Shores when I get the opportunity to pick one up. Sideboard isn't terrible, but still a work in progress.
Thoughts?
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instants
3 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
Sorceries
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
1 Blood Crypt
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Field of Ruin
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mana Leak
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
I still personally feel like running 2 Angers mainboard is generally a good idea. It cleans up the board against a lot of MUs where you get behind if you can't 1-for-1 everything, and snapping it back can help grind into the late game very well.
Izzet Charm is flexible, but I think either Roast or Harvest Pyre would be better in it's place. It's flexible, yeah, but I feel like you want to run more hard removal. Our deck hates Tarmogoyfs as-is, especially if you aren't packing some Shackles.
I forgot the Tron MU is bad, but Merfolk has been laughable to me. They have a hard time against any UR deck running a serious snap-bolt package, as it's difficult for them to seriously build up a board presence. It also helps I run Engineered Explosives and two Angers in the 75.
As a Blue Moon player, this is precisely correct. Though my list is currently running a 2-3 split between SV and AV, letting me set up some early draws and refill my hand later on as well.
I've played this deck for over 2 months now, and the only real decks I've had a rough time against seem to be Bogles (for obvious reasons), Naya Blitz, and for whatever reason Infect has given me a rough time.
Burn can be a bit difficult, but honestly with all the deck's early interaction and Moon shutting off their splashed spells, I've had Burn opponents scoop immediately to a resolved Batterskull.
Most other MUs seem to be 50/50 to favorable so long as you can pull through on making tight, correct lines of play.
But Modern's midrange decks - notably Jund - revolve around raw CA. Their whole game plan is having better mid to late game top decks than their opponent and being very grindy. On top of that, while they don't run Arena they do run Bob.
Selection can be fine in some combo decks, but when most of your grindy deck is filled with efficient threats and answers, I think you'd rather grab a fistful of them than dig for more specific ones slightly deeper.
Modern Nexus writer toyed with this idea. Premise seems interesting, but it feels too strongly artifact based. I already hate most of the Maindeck finishers getting hosed by artifact hate, so this list turns be off a bit. Of course other people may want to tweak it and give it a spin.
Towards the bottom of the article:
http://modernnexus.com/draw-three-brews-eldrazi-stompy-ancestral-sultai-blue-moon/
I mean, I doubt you would be running more than 1-2 in your main deck. In those numbers it shouldn't drastically affect the Burn MU.
On top of that, if you really need to you can Truths for X=2 or 1, if necessary and you have the mana for it. While it still won't dig as much as Read the Bones, the life loss comparison becomes fairly pointless.
In three color fair decks - like Jund, Abzan, or Grixis - you want to run truths for the greater card advantage.
In more unfair decks - like BR / Grixis Reanimator - Read the Bones is better. It digs deeper to find those combo pieces you need to win the game.
I feel like this is the main difference between the two cards, and where you should run one over the other.
As stated above, I feel some number of Ancestral is good in the main deck. Drawing a fist full of burn/threats seems very good at closing out the late game. It is slow, but as long as you think and don't obsessively cast it on turn 1 if you have some early interaction - which I feel is the correct play - it can be quite good.
EDIT: Also surprised you don't run another Batterskull in the side, your meta must be pretty grindy.