Still going to say this can come out turn 4 with Kiora's Follower and Karametra's Acolyte...
Not that it's tier-one competitive, but it's a fun card that's being hated on for all the wrong reasons. It'll find a home in my FNM UG ramp deck.
Actually I'm pretty sure it's being hate on for all the right reasons. Lack of competitiveness, insane cost, etc. Fun cards get hated on all the time and with reason. People want the right kind of value out of their cards.
minotaur is crap unless some support comes its way
really like the blue spell. it might have some potential
brimaz is....
The cat's meow. Yeah, yeah. We're all thinking it. Many will say it. But damn if it isn't a solid, standard worthy card. I look forward to trying a couple in my WW pile. Should be fun.
Can you really compare a standard card and a card no longer in standard? And this card is slightly better than searing blaze as you don't have to worry about landfall to get the full value. Especially since the 2 damage is better than blaze's 1 damage minimum.
I can make up any argument I want, but that doesn't make it rational.
So it went up $3; what is your point? Cards prices go all over the place for the first month or so.
If an individual makes an argument, supports that argument with statistics, historical precedence, and solid rhetoric he garners more respect than the people that scream out "OmG. Ashiok r the sucx! Tibalt 2.0!!!" and so on. There were enough people in both anti-Ashiok camps. Maybe I'm wrong, but we can't really tell what argument you're trying to make up.
I've said from the beginning he's solid. He's useful in the correct deck, against the right deck, and played at the right time. (This last part added for those who continue to think "He sucks against aggro!" and think every player is going to just throw him down onto any board state without thinking it through...you know the type I'm talking about.)
And the article, if you read it, talks about the sales volume of cards from pre-order days to post-release days. It's not to show that Ashiok went up a couple dollars (or Thoughtseize tanked in value) but to show that the 2nd most purchased (rare) card after release and some chance to play with the new cards was Ashiok (up from 8).
I didn't get a chance to watch any of the standard portion of Dublin, but I'm sure he'll show up somewhere.
Claiming 8% as victory? Also, anyone that was being rational didn't say this card was Tibalt level bad.
Still saw him get run over by aggro and Jace, MA would have been better almost every single time against Control.
Well he's not a 4x in any build so the percentage is almost irrelevant. Would you have preferred just the % in the top 8? And yes, if you scour this thread (and his spoiler thread), you'll find people claiming he's absolutely worse or on par with Tibalt. They were being rational. They were using every rational criteria for judging a walker to "prove" how bad he is.
Hey Blackfall, nice to see someone beat me to a primer. That just means I have a little less work to do myself. First, some observations I made on your list, and then I'll post mine (again...hope I don't get in trouble) with some explanations on mine. I sleeved up my 75 last night so I haven't had a chance to play with friends yet. I'm gonna stop by my shop after work.
Mana: I think 26 is too high. You have 6 scry lands to help smooth out your draws. (I pt in all 8 last night, but my gut thinks 3x is correct.) I think you might get flooded when you don't want to. I think 24 would be okay. Your curve, as with most control decks, stay low. You might think you want all that mana for large Syncopates and Urban Evolution (which I'll be honest, I don't think fits in to BUG control) but you're leaving out a different "ramp" spell which I think is going to be kind of important...
Creatures: Sylvan Caryatid. My goodness this guy puts up a stop sign for all those aggressive 2/x creatures like Burning Tree and his kin. This lets you focus the rest of your removal spells on the 3/x or larger. Might want to consider Desecration Demon. With all the token generators mostly rotating, he's gone up in value significantly (both play and financial). Plus he has built in removal. Always a plus. All this removal and you put Ooze on the sideline? The shame!
Planeswalker: Ashiok should only come in from the side against control. He's one of my new favorite planeswalkers (Team: Nightmarishly good!), but he doesn't fit main board because the chance of you sitting down against a pure aggro deck come rotation are too high.
The rest: Those can shift around as usual. I'm not a fan of urban evolution personally, but you can try it. And 2 Abrupt Decays feels too light. There's going to be a lot of little critters running around! Oh, and I think you're completely wrong on Simic Charm.
This is a BUG control deck I have been toying around with following the rotation here in a few weeks. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it here in the next couple of days. Any suggestions, of course, are greatly encouraged. Rotation means so many different things are up in the air. I'll try to go over some of my card selections for both the main deck and the sideboard.
Mana Base - 24 lands. This feels about right with our curve being as low as it is. The one thing that's tricky is the fact we're running all 12 shock lands and 8 CIPT lands. So we'll have to be careful where we shock ourselves, and how we scry. I'm not sure if both sets of Temples are correct at 4x, but I'll try them. I could see it going to 3 each and up the basic by 2.
Creature Base - 13 creatures. A little light on the creature base which is to be expected. Aetherling could be a 2 of, but I'm trying him as a 1x with a supporting cast. With tons of instants and sorcery spells, Deathrite Shaman acts as that little bit of extra life loss or life gain where needed. Sylvan Caryatid is looking like it will be a solid mana ramp and hard for those little 2/x creatures to get past. (In a brief swing by my local card shop, 3 guys there were testing rotation all playing heavy aggro.) This could be a 4x over the 3x with Deathrite Shaman shrinking by 1, but I'm not sure yet. And the last creature I've chosen is standards rags to riches story: Desecration Demon. From a dollar rare to a nearly 9 dollar card with the exit of token generators like Lingering Souls et al, this 6/6 flier will either grow while removing the few creatures left on the board, or get in for 6 pretty early.
Non-Creature Spells - 23 non-creature spells. 3 Planeswalkers to start: 2x Jace, Architect of Thought and a 1-of Vraska, The Unseen feel like a fine combination. Vraska has really never had time to shine and with Jace protecting it, plus the massive amounts of removal spells we're including, I don't feel bad trying to give her her dues. Besides, she's a Gorgon and fits right in with Theros and how good would you feel getting at least 1 win with her ultimate assassins?
The rest: 3x Abrupt Decay just mess your opponent up if he's thinking he's going the warp speed aggressive game plan. Bow of Nylea has to be my favorite card in all of Theros. It's a 3 mana artifact with 5 abilities, 4 of which are repeatable. While the deathtouch for attacking creatures will more than likely be an irrelevant ability, it's always nice to have something like that in your back pocket on the off chance you have to send your Deathrite Shaman into the red zone. Then you can start figuring out which of the repetitious abilities you want to take advantage of. You can make your shamans 2/3s which can take out Burning-Tree Emissary and his cronies by putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature of your choice. You can shock flying creatures, including any tokens you may have given your opponent by a well-timed Swan Song. You can gain 3 life a turn which can buy you plenty of time against aforementioned aggressive decks. And on the off chance games go longer than you anticipate, you can recover 4 cards to allow you to win those draw-go games that may show up from time to time. (It is just too bad that there aren't too many shuffle effects in the upcoming standard that we can take advantage of. There's only 26 cards in the upcoming standard that even have the word shuffle on them) The last little aspect of the bow, if you're going this route, is that adds 2 to your green devotion. (And since we don't care about that, just file it under "meh" knowledge). I originally had 2 in this list, but I don't know if it's going to work out that well. I may throw it back in and test that way, but we shall see.
Spot removal works wonders for builds like this and the inclusion of Doom Blade, Far // Away, and Hero's Demise should shine yet again. Mass removal is something this deck lacks, I won't lie. The loss of Mutilate hurts. I enjoy the thought of Curse of Swine, but that would require more Ratchet Bomb, Illness in the Ranks, and more Jace's for his +1. It exiles the creature, so that is a plus. It's a card to consider.
In case you forgot, and there's not a blue player out there who has, Cavern of Souls is finally going to disappear from standard! (Don't worry, it will still show up Modern/Legacy, but for now, it's gone.) This means that Remove Soul will finally...be replaced by Essence Scatter! What? That already happened? Well either way, 1U will get you a LOT farther against creatures than it used to. Opposite of Scatter, is the new, controversial Negate-lite: Swan Song. Half the mana, typically counters the spell you need, with a 2/2 flyer as a draw back. The draw can be dealt with with Ratchet Bomb, of which we included 2, the Bow, Jace's +1 (1 damage coming at you feel less threatening), Vraska's +1, a +2 life activation from Deathrite, all the spot removal you see above, etc. The thought is, much like cards like Thoughtseize you have to know when to play it. (And what black deck isn't complete without Thoughtseize! So we threw 4 into the 75.) And there's an Opportunity for a little card draw. Could be 2, not sure, but I know that 1 doesn't necessarily feel wrong.
Sideboard - 15 cards.
As with most sideboards, they'll evolve even more complexly than the main deck. It will have to take into consideration local meta, popular archetypes, etc.
Possible Cards Missing - too many to go into at this moment (but as I'm writing this, I'm thinking about Golgari Charm as protection from sweepers). A sideboard's work is never done! And with that, I will leave my fellow MTGS players to dissect my choices, suggest alternatives, engage in respectful, healthy discussion, and enjoy what BUG can bring to the table!
This is a BUG control deck I have been toying around with following the rotation here in a few weeks. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it here in the next couple of days. Any suggestions, of course, are greatly encouraged. Rotation means so many different things are up in the air. I'll try to go over some of my card selections for both the main deck and the sideboard.
Mana Base - 24 lands. This feels about right with our curve being as low as it is. The one thing that's tricky is the fact we're running all 12 shock lands and 8 CIPT lands. So we'll have to be careful where we shock ourselves, and how we scry. I'm not sure if both sets of Temples are correct at 4x, but I'll try them. I could see it going to 3 each and up the basic by 2.
Creature Base - 13 creatures. A little light on the creature base which is to be expected. Aetherling could be a 2 of, but I'm trying him as a 1x with a supporting cast. With tons of instants and sorcery spells, Deathrite Shaman acts as that little bit of extra life loss or life gain where needed. Sylvan Caryatid is looking like it will be a solid mana ramp and hard for those little 2/x creatures to get past. (In a brief swing by my local card shop, 3 guys there were testing rotation all playing heavy aggro.) This could be a 4x over the 3x with Deathrite Shaman shrinking by 1, but I'm not sure yet. And the last creature I've chosen is standards rags to riches story: Desecration Demon. From a dollar rare to a nearly 9 dollar card with the exit of token generators like Lingering Souls et al, this 6/6 flier will either grow while removing the few creatures left on the board, or get in for 6 pretty early.
Non-Creature Spells - 23 non-creature spells. 3 Planeswalkers to start: 2x Jace, Architect of Thought and a 1-of Vraska, The Unseen feel like a fine combination. Vraska has really never had time to shine and with Jace protecting it, plus the massive amounts of removal spells we're including, I don't feel bad trying to give her her dues. Besides, she's a Gorgon and fits right in with Theros and how good would you feel getting at least 1 win with her ultimate assassins?
The rest: 3x Abrupt Decay just mess your opponent up if he's thinking he's going the warp speed aggressive game plan. Bow of Nylea has to be my favorite card in all of Theros. It's a 3 mana artifact with 5 abilities, 4 of which are repeatable. While the deathtouch for attacking creatures will more than likely be an irrelevant ability, it's always nice to have something like that in your back pocket on the off chance you have to send your Deathrite Shaman into the red zone. Then you can start figuring out which of the repetitious abilities you want to take advantage of. You can make your shamans 2/3s which can take out Burning-Tree Emissary and his cronies by putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature of your choice. You can shock flying creatures, including any tokens you may have given your opponent by a well-timed Swan Song. You can gain 3 life a turn which can buy you plenty of time against aforementioned aggressive decks. And on the off chance games go longer than you anticipate, you can recover 4 cards to allow you to win those draw-go games that may show up from time to time. (It is just too bad that there aren't too many shuffle effects in the upcoming standard that we can take advantage of. There's only 26 cards in the upcoming standard that even have the word shuffle on them) The last little aspect of the bow, if you're going this route, is that adds 2 to your green devotion. (And since we don't care about that, just file it under "meh" knowledge). I originally had 2 in this list, but I don't know if it's going to work out that well. I may throw it back in and test that way, but we shall see.
Spot removal works wonders for builds like this and the inclusion of Doom Blade, Far // Away, and Hero's Demise should shine yet again. Mass removal is something this deck lacks, I won't lie. The loss of Mutilate hurts. I enjoy the thought of Curse of Swine, but that would require more Ratchet Bomb, Illness in the Ranks, and more Jace's for his +1. It exiles the creature, so that is a plus. It's a card to consider.
In case you forgot, and there's not a blue player out there who has, Cavern of Souls is finally going to disappear from standard! (Don't worry, it will still show up Modern/Legacy, but for now, it's gone.) This means that Remove Soul will finally...be replaced by Essence Scatter! What? That already happened? Well either way, 1U will get you a LOT farther against creatures than it used to. Opposite of Scatter, is the new, controversial Negate-lite: Swan Song. Half the mana, typically counters the spell you need, with a 2/2 flyer as a draw back. The draw can be dealt with with Ratchet Bomb, of which we included 2, the Bow, Jace's +1 (1 damage coming at you feel less threatening), Vraska's +1, a +2 life activation from Deathrite, all the spot removal you see above, etc. The thought is, much like cards like Thoughtseize you have to know when to play it. (And what black deck isn't complete without Thoughtseize! So we threw 4 into the 75.) And there's an Opportunity for a little card draw. Could be 2, not sure, but I know that 1 doesn't necessarily feel wrong.
Sideboard - 15 cards.
As with most sideboards, they'll evolve even more complexly than the main deck. It will have to take into consideration local meta, popular archetypes, etc.
Possible Cards Missing - too many to go into at this moment (but as I'm writing this, I'm thinking about Golgari Charm as protection from sweepers). A sideboard's work is never done! And with that, I will leave my fellow MTGS players to dissect my choices, suggest alternatives, engage in respectful, healthy discussion, and enjoy what BUG can bring to the table!
[QUOTE=thetrueshyguy;/comments/12457487]Just a quick observation...
"Against control, it plays like a really, really bad Jace, Memory Adept except for the one day you hit one of their Aetherlings."
Against control...
1) It plays like a cheaper Jace.
2) It would play in conjunction with Jace.
3) If you hit control's Aetherling, doesn't that shift the odds more in your favor because you've hit one of their few wincons?[/
I don't think most of you need shaheen to tell you this card is bad you can you know, read the card. If there was someone's opinion I would respect on plainswalkers it would be his considering he has played plainswalker control since they have been printed.
And there are other pros and good players singing it's usefulness. If one SCG guy says it's absolutely amazing, and one says it's a step below Tibalt, then guess what? They're both right, and they're both wrong. Just reading a card doesn't always tell you it's good or bad. There are so many other factors involved and they have been beaten to death. Many for, many against and of those, most are flawed, illogical, or full of holes. There are only a few solid analysis of the card (both for and against) through out the pages and pages of posts. And I'm sorry to say, but the brevity of Shaheen's analysis doesn't add to the discussion of why he's "bad" but instead detracts from it.
I must admit that after reading this, my interest in Ashiok actually increased...
Just a quick observation...
"Against control, it plays like a really, really bad Jace, Memory Adept except for the one day you hit one of their Aetherlings."
Against control...
1) It plays like a cheaper Jace.
2) It would play in conjunction with Jace.
3) If you hit control's Aetherling, doesn't that shift the odds more in your favor because you've hit one of their few wincons?
The fact that Esper, at one point, had a reasonable win condition in Nephalia Drownyard and Jace, Memory Adept (from the sideboard) doesn't make Ashiok a card suitable for competitive Standard decks.
Obviously it doesn't mean that the card isn't viable either, it's just not comparable to either of those cards as far as the milling plan goes.
It's as comparable to Drownyard as anything else we have in the up coming standard. Unfortunately, it's repeatable only once a turn, but it's still repeatable. Having 3 or 4 Drownyards in play wrapped things up quicker, there's no arguing against that fact. In that regard, they're not comparable, but overall we can analyze Ashiok within the scope of similarity.
He's not suitable if you're trying to use him with the main intent of milling out your opponent outright. If you're going to use him in conjunction with most of the toys that control has at its disposal, that shifts the discussion immensely.
The green one isn't so good because green gets an instant for G that triggers two separate heroic creatures and occasionally says "draw two cards".
They do get nice toys from time to time. Green's heroic enabler instant "Keen Sense" is incredibly powerful. That's going to be an MVP in sealed play and who knows what it will do in other formats.... Warrior's Lesson....big ol' grin!
I JUST realized his -10 can be used with his -X...
If you get his loyalty that high, that you can. His -X ability just wants the cards to have been exiled by Ashiok, it doesn't care if it's from his +2 or his ultimate.
Actually I'm pretty sure it's being hate on for all the right reasons. Lack of competitiveness, insane cost, etc. Fun cards get hated on all the time and with reason. People want the right kind of value out of their cards.
The cat's meow. Yeah, yeah. We're all thinking it. Many will say it. But damn if it isn't a solid, standard worthy card. I look forward to trying a couple in my WW pile. Should be fun.
Can you really compare a standard card and a card no longer in standard? And this card is slightly better than searing blaze as you don't have to worry about landfall to get the full value. Especially since the 2 damage is better than blaze's 1 damage minimum.
DC210, you're spot on. No one wants to play a 1-drop that just invites a face slap of 5 damage.
If an individual makes an argument, supports that argument with statistics, historical precedence, and solid rhetoric he garners more respect than the people that scream out "OmG. Ashiok r the sucx! Tibalt 2.0!!!" and so on. There were enough people in both anti-Ashiok camps. Maybe I'm wrong, but we can't really tell what argument you're trying to make up.
I've said from the beginning he's solid. He's useful in the correct deck, against the right deck, and played at the right time. (This last part added for those who continue to think "He sucks against aggro!" and think every player is going to just throw him down onto any board state without thinking it through...you know the type I'm talking about.)
And the article, if you read it, talks about the sales volume of cards from pre-order days to post-release days. It's not to show that Ashiok went up a couple dollars (or Thoughtseize tanked in value) but to show that the 2nd most purchased (rare) card after release and some chance to play with the new cards was Ashiok (up from 8).
I didn't get a chance to watch any of the standard portion of Dublin, but I'm sure he'll show up somewhere.
Well he's not a 4x in any build so the percentage is almost irrelevant. Would you have preferred just the % in the top 8? And yes, if you scour this thread (and his spoiler thread), you'll find people claiming he's absolutely worse or on par with Tibalt. They were being rational. They were using every rational criteria for judging a walker to "prove" how bad he is.
Here'a an interesting article...
http://www.icv2.com/articles/markets/26887.html
That's what I thought.
Mana: I think 26 is too high. You have 6 scry lands to help smooth out your draws. (I pt in all 8 last night, but my gut thinks 3x is correct.) I think you might get flooded when you don't want to. I think 24 would be okay. Your curve, as with most control decks, stay low. You might think you want all that mana for large Syncopates and Urban Evolution (which I'll be honest, I don't think fits in to BUG control) but you're leaving out a different "ramp" spell which I think is going to be kind of important...
Creatures: Sylvan Caryatid. My goodness this guy puts up a stop sign for all those aggressive 2/x creatures like Burning Tree and his kin. This lets you focus the rest of your removal spells on the 3/x or larger. Might want to consider Desecration Demon. With all the token generators mostly rotating, he's gone up in value significantly (both play and financial). Plus he has built in removal. Always a plus. All this removal and you put Ooze on the sideline? The shame!
Planeswalker: Ashiok should only come in from the side against control. He's one of my new favorite planeswalkers (Team: Nightmarishly good!), but he doesn't fit main board because the chance of you sitting down against a pure aggro deck come rotation are too high.
The rest: Those can shift around as usual. I'm not a fan of urban evolution personally, but you can try it. And 2 Abrupt Decays feels too light. There's going to be a lot of little critters running around! Oh, and I think you're completely wrong on Simic Charm.
Now...here's what I posted earlier last night.
4x Breeding Pool
1x Island
2x Mutavault
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Mystery
4x Watery Grave
Creatures [13]
1x Aetherling
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Desecration Demon
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Doom Blade
2x Esence Scatter
3x Far // Away
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Opportunity
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Swan Song
3x Thoughtseize
1x Vraska, The Unseen
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Desecration Demon
1x Doom Blade
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Negate
1x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Simic Charm
1x Thoughtseize
This is a BUG control deck I have been toying around with following the rotation here in a few weeks. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it here in the next couple of days. Any suggestions, of course, are greatly encouraged. Rotation means so many different things are up in the air. I'll try to go over some of my card selections for both the main deck and the sideboard.
Mana Base - 24 lands. This feels about right with our curve being as low as it is. The one thing that's tricky is the fact we're running all 12 shock lands and 8 CIPT lands. So we'll have to be careful where we shock ourselves, and how we scry. I'm not sure if both sets of Temples are correct at 4x, but I'll try them. I could see it going to 3 each and up the basic by 2.
Creature Base - 13 creatures. A little light on the creature base which is to be expected. Aetherling could be a 2 of, but I'm trying him as a 1x with a supporting cast. With tons of instants and sorcery spells, Deathrite Shaman acts as that little bit of extra life loss or life gain where needed. Sylvan Caryatid is looking like it will be a solid mana ramp and hard for those little 2/x creatures to get past. (In a brief swing by my local card shop, 3 guys there were testing rotation all playing heavy aggro.) This could be a 4x over the 3x with Deathrite Shaman shrinking by 1, but I'm not sure yet. And the last creature I've chosen is standards rags to riches story: Desecration Demon. From a dollar rare to a nearly 9 dollar card with the exit of token generators like Lingering Souls et al, this 6/6 flier will either grow while removing the few creatures left on the board, or get in for 6 pretty early.
Non-Creature Spells - 23 non-creature spells. 3 Planeswalkers to start: 2x Jace, Architect of Thought and a 1-of Vraska, The Unseen feel like a fine combination. Vraska has really never had time to shine and with Jace protecting it, plus the massive amounts of removal spells we're including, I don't feel bad trying to give her her dues. Besides, she's a Gorgon and fits right in with Theros and how good would you feel getting at least 1 win with her ultimate assassins?
The rest: 3x Abrupt Decay just mess your opponent up if he's thinking he's going the warp speed aggressive game plan. Bow of Nylea has to be my favorite card in all of Theros. It's a 3 mana artifact with 5 abilities, 4 of which are repeatable. While the deathtouch for attacking creatures will more than likely be an irrelevant ability, it's always nice to have something like that in your back pocket on the off chance you have to send your Deathrite Shaman into the red zone. Then you can start figuring out which of the repetitious abilities you want to take advantage of. You can make your shamans 2/3s which can take out Burning-Tree Emissary and his cronies by putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature of your choice. You can shock flying creatures, including any tokens you may have given your opponent by a well-timed Swan Song. You can gain 3 life a turn which can buy you plenty of time against aforementioned aggressive decks. And on the off chance games go longer than you anticipate, you can recover 4 cards to allow you to win those draw-go games that may show up from time to time. (It is just too bad that there aren't too many shuffle effects in the upcoming standard that we can take advantage of. There's only 26 cards in the upcoming standard that even have the word shuffle on them) The last little aspect of the bow, if you're going this route, is that adds 2 to your green devotion. (And since we don't care about that, just file it under "meh" knowledge). I originally had 2 in this list, but I don't know if it's going to work out that well. I may throw it back in and test that way, but we shall see.
Spot removal works wonders for builds like this and the inclusion of Doom Blade, Far // Away, and Hero's Demise should shine yet again. Mass removal is something this deck lacks, I won't lie. The loss of Mutilate hurts. I enjoy the thought of Curse of Swine, but that would require more Ratchet Bomb, Illness in the Ranks, and more Jace's for his +1. It exiles the creature, so that is a plus. It's a card to consider.
In case you forgot, and there's not a blue player out there who has, Cavern of Souls is finally going to disappear from standard! (Don't worry, it will still show up Modern/Legacy, but for now, it's gone.) This means that Remove Soul will finally...be replaced by Essence Scatter! What? That already happened? Well either way, 1U will get you a LOT farther against creatures than it used to. Opposite of Scatter, is the new, controversial Negate-lite: Swan Song. Half the mana, typically counters the spell you need, with a 2/2 flyer as a draw back. The draw can be dealt with with Ratchet Bomb, of which we included 2, the Bow, Jace's +1 (1 damage coming at you feel less threatening), Vraska's +1, a +2 life activation from Deathrite, all the spot removal you see above, etc. The thought is, much like cards like Thoughtseize you have to know when to play it. (And what black deck isn't complete without Thoughtseize! So we threw 4 into the 75.) And there's an Opportunity for a little card draw. Could be 2, not sure, but I know that 1 doesn't necessarily feel wrong.
Sideboard - 15 cards.
As with most sideboards, they'll evolve even more complexly than the main deck. It will have to take into consideration local meta, popular archetypes, etc.
Possible Cards Missing - too many to go into at this moment (but as I'm writing this, I'm thinking about Golgari Charm as protection from sweepers). A sideboard's work is never done! And with that, I will leave my fellow MTGS players to dissect my choices, suggest alternatives, engage in respectful, healthy discussion, and enjoy what BUG can bring to the table!
4x Breeding Pool
1x Island
2x Mutavault
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Mystery
4x Watery Grave
Creatures [13]
1x Aetherling
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Desecration Demon
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Doom Blade
2x Esence Scatter
3x Far // Away
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Hero's Demise
1x Opportunity
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Swan Song
3x Thoughtseize
1x Vraska, The Unseen
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Desecration Demon
1x Doom Blade
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Negate
1x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Simic Charm
1x Thoughtseize
This is a BUG control deck I have been toying around with following the rotation here in a few weeks. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it here in the next couple of days. Any suggestions, of course, are greatly encouraged. Rotation means so many different things are up in the air. I'll try to go over some of my card selections for both the main deck and the sideboard.
Mana Base - 24 lands. This feels about right with our curve being as low as it is. The one thing that's tricky is the fact we're running all 12 shock lands and 8 CIPT lands. So we'll have to be careful where we shock ourselves, and how we scry. I'm not sure if both sets of Temples are correct at 4x, but I'll try them. I could see it going to 3 each and up the basic by 2.
Creature Base - 13 creatures. A little light on the creature base which is to be expected. Aetherling could be a 2 of, but I'm trying him as a 1x with a supporting cast. With tons of instants and sorcery spells, Deathrite Shaman acts as that little bit of extra life loss or life gain where needed. Sylvan Caryatid is looking like it will be a solid mana ramp and hard for those little 2/x creatures to get past. (In a brief swing by my local card shop, 3 guys there were testing rotation all playing heavy aggro.) This could be a 4x over the 3x with Deathrite Shaman shrinking by 1, but I'm not sure yet. And the last creature I've chosen is standards rags to riches story: Desecration Demon. From a dollar rare to a nearly 9 dollar card with the exit of token generators like Lingering Souls et al, this 6/6 flier will either grow while removing the few creatures left on the board, or get in for 6 pretty early.
Non-Creature Spells - 23 non-creature spells. 3 Planeswalkers to start: 2x Jace, Architect of Thought and a 1-of Vraska, The Unseen feel like a fine combination. Vraska has really never had time to shine and with Jace protecting it, plus the massive amounts of removal spells we're including, I don't feel bad trying to give her her dues. Besides, she's a Gorgon and fits right in with Theros and how good would you feel getting at least 1 win with her ultimate assassins?
The rest: 3x Abrupt Decay just mess your opponent up if he's thinking he's going the warp speed aggressive game plan. Bow of Nylea has to be my favorite card in all of Theros. It's a 3 mana artifact with 5 abilities, 4 of which are repeatable. While the deathtouch for attacking creatures will more than likely be an irrelevant ability, it's always nice to have something like that in your back pocket on the off chance you have to send your Deathrite Shaman into the red zone. Then you can start figuring out which of the repetitious abilities you want to take advantage of. You can make your shamans 2/3s which can take out Burning-Tree Emissary and his cronies by putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature of your choice. You can shock flying creatures, including any tokens you may have given your opponent by a well-timed Swan Song. You can gain 3 life a turn which can buy you plenty of time against aforementioned aggressive decks. And on the off chance games go longer than you anticipate, you can recover 4 cards to allow you to win those draw-go games that may show up from time to time. (It is just too bad that there aren't too many shuffle effects in the upcoming standard that we can take advantage of. There's only 26 cards in the upcoming standard that even have the word shuffle on them) The last little aspect of the bow, if you're going this route, is that adds 2 to your green devotion. (And since we don't care about that, just file it under "meh" knowledge). I originally had 2 in this list, but I don't know if it's going to work out that well. I may throw it back in and test that way, but we shall see.
Spot removal works wonders for builds like this and the inclusion of Doom Blade, Far // Away, and Hero's Demise should shine yet again. Mass removal is something this deck lacks, I won't lie. The loss of Mutilate hurts. I enjoy the thought of Curse of Swine, but that would require more Ratchet Bomb, Illness in the Ranks, and more Jace's for his +1. It exiles the creature, so that is a plus. It's a card to consider.
In case you forgot, and there's not a blue player out there who has, Cavern of Souls is finally going to disappear from standard! (Don't worry, it will still show up Modern/Legacy, but for now, it's gone.) This means that Remove Soul will finally...be replaced by Essence Scatter! What? That already happened? Well either way, 1U will get you a LOT farther against creatures than it used to. Opposite of Scatter, is the new, controversial Negate-lite: Swan Song. Half the mana, typically counters the spell you need, with a 2/2 flyer as a draw back. The draw can be dealt with with Ratchet Bomb, of which we included 2, the Bow, Jace's +1 (1 damage coming at you feel less threatening), Vraska's +1, a +2 life activation from Deathrite, all the spot removal you see above, etc. The thought is, much like cards like Thoughtseize you have to know when to play it. (And what black deck isn't complete without Thoughtseize! So we threw 4 into the 75.) And there's an Opportunity for a little card draw. Could be 2, not sure, but I know that 1 doesn't necessarily feel wrong.
Sideboard - 15 cards.
As with most sideboards, they'll evolve even more complexly than the main deck. It will have to take into consideration local meta, popular archetypes, etc.
Possible Cards Missing - too many to go into at this moment (but as I'm writing this, I'm thinking about Golgari Charm as protection from sweepers). A sideboard's work is never done! And with that, I will leave my fellow MTGS players to dissect my choices, suggest alternatives, engage in respectful, healthy discussion, and enjoy what BUG can bring to the table!
And there are other pros and good players singing it's usefulness. If one SCG guy says it's absolutely amazing, and one says it's a step below Tibalt, then guess what? They're both right, and they're both wrong. Just reading a card doesn't always tell you it's good or bad. There are so many other factors involved and they have been beaten to death. Many for, many against and of those, most are flawed, illogical, or full of holes. There are only a few solid analysis of the card (both for and against) through out the pages and pages of posts. And I'm sorry to say, but the brevity of Shaheen's analysis doesn't add to the discussion of why he's "bad" but instead detracts from it.
Just a quick observation...
"Against control, it plays like a really, really bad Jace, Memory Adept except for the one day you hit one of their Aetherlings."
Against control...
1) It plays like a cheaper Jace.
2) It would play in conjunction with Jace.
3) If you hit control's Aetherling, doesn't that shift the odds more in your favor because you've hit one of their few wincons?
It's as comparable to Drownyard as anything else we have in the up coming standard. Unfortunately, it's repeatable only once a turn, but it's still repeatable. Having 3 or 4 Drownyards in play wrapped things up quicker, there's no arguing against that fact. In that regard, they're not comparable, but overall we can analyze Ashiok within the scope of similarity.
He's not suitable if you're trying to use him with the main intent of milling out your opponent outright. If you're going to use him in conjunction with most of the toys that control has at its disposal, that shifts the discussion immensely.
They do get nice toys from time to time.
If you get his loyalty that high, that you can. His -X ability just wants the cards to have been exiled by Ashiok, it doesn't care if it's from his +2 or his ultimate.