You may want to look at some of the tribal zoo list that I see floating around. But my suggestion is to cut some of your white cards maybe just play souls and no path. Or just a abzan if you really want that.
This is my current build. Iv been having a good amount of success with this build
[4x tarmogoyf
4x dark confidant
2x scavenging ooze
2x tireless tracker
2x huntmaster of the fells
4x verdant catacomb
4x bloodstained mire
3x raging ravine
3x blooming marsh
2x Blackcleave cliffs
2x overgrown tomb
2x swamp
1x blood crypt
1x stomping grounds
1x tree top village
1x forest
SB
2x pithing needel
2x collective brutality
2x graft diggers cage
1x grim Lavamancer
1x stormbreath dragon
1x obstante baloth
1x abrupt decay
1x ancient grudge
1x Dammnation
1x night of souls betrayal
1x anger of the gods
1x painful truths]
Iv been enjoying this build it feels more Grindy then previous builds iv played. My Lgs meta is Weird, alot of people play abzan and fringe control decks like skred. With the 3 kolaghan's command the tireless tracker and Lili of the last hope I can one for one all day then start to pick up creatures or draw my self back In the game with clues. My side bored is set up to have a lot of just solid one of since I can't really count of the meta being the same week to week. People like to play alot of flavor of the week decks or home brews.
Blood moon hurts us pretty badly. If you don't work your mana base around your own blood moons you can lose yourself the game. Some builds do play moon I played it in my sb for a few weeks.
Iv been having alot of trouble with skred red lately. One guy at my Lgs only plays skred he's pretty solid pilot with the deck. Surprisingly its not blood moon that has been getting me it's the planes walker chandra torch of defiance and koth of the hammer. I'm thinking of playing some pithing needels in my sb, I already play a copy of dead bore over one terminate in my main dexk so I can try and get walkers. Any one else have trouble with skred?.
After playtesting with some friends, I've decided to abandon the traverse build. I miss the more toolbox approach to the deck, with being able to use chord as an instant to get what you want at a moments notice. I think I have found a sweet spot between the Chord, Evo, and Bolt decks, although more playtesting is required. I also went on the more controlly approach with cards like Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Magus of the Moon. Let me know what you all think.
I like where this is going. How did you fit bolt path and Evo in as 4 of
Has someone collected matchup data for the regular eldritch evolution, 4 birds, no bolt build? I've been reading this thread for some time and it feels like everyone is trying to fix problems that maybe aren't there in the first place (that build, like the old chord builds, did well at tournaments and pushed this to tier2). The real discussion might not be how to fit 4 bolts or which should be the 5-8 tutors and how to enable all this things consistently, but to identify the bad matchups and then fix them.
In my experience with this deck, the problem that it had was clunkyness. Lots of 4/5 drops, silver bullets drawn when being completely irrelevant, lines of play that were one turn too slow to be relevant... In addition to that, when playing against it with other decks, the lack of speed was clear too.
And I don't think that the way to solve this problem is cutting acceleration, or adding a chord with basic landcycling 1 plus many mediocre cards. Dredge just got cathartic reunion, eldrazi are consistent fast and disruptive beaters, infect can T2 kill us and meanwhile we are trying to recast lightning bolt with eternal witness and zero acceleration.
I don't really want to be mean with your work, but I had to say it. If you don't agree with me, please tell me.
I fully agree with you. Id also like to say that some times with this deck it seems like we get to "cute" with it.
So I took a traverse the ulvenwald build with me to GP providence last week and played a few side events I have a few thoughts on the matter. First let me start by saying theses are my personal observations and alot of my opinions lean heavily on my play style and how I pilot the deck. I am no longer playing the traverse build but that is not to say I think it's a bad deck, it's certainly a interesting take on the archetype. But I found that the hoops I had to jump through to get delirium online was a bit more then I was willing to do. I liked not having the risk of a untimely birds of paradise draw later in the game, but I always felt kinda bad when I had to fire off a traverse in the first few turns to make a land drop /turn on future traverse.
Some take aways I from this experience are lighting bolt is as we know a strong removal spell and I think it may have a place in the main. I personally liked killing other mana dorks and low to the ground duders like delver of secrets with out giving my opponent a land drop. Two restoration angel seemed like a low number for me. I have noticed I play out my restoration angel's much more aggressively then other people iv seen play the deck (it's popular at my lgs) as a result of this I punted a game because I ran my two angels out vs a control deck and forgot I dint have three in the deck anymore. Im not saying that it's the %100 correct thing to do seeing as I had to cus a pia and Karin from my list to make it fit, but I like to get in my opponents face with the flash 3/4.
The addition of filigree familiar felt solid. Outside of path to exile people don't want to kill it and seem hesitant to burn a counter spell on it. I like having one more "value" three drop to evolve into five drops. Additionally being colorless could come up and be a benefit, but this a small thing really just theory crafting. And being a 2/2 that can come back from revilark never hurts.
There seems to be this back and forth of what is best for the deck traverses or chord of calling. With my limited time with the traverse build I can tell you I missed some of the chord of calling tricks. But being one green mana is strong, I found my self using Traverse to set up evolution. Against blue opponents they had to think about if they want to counter the traverse or counter what I get.. Then you get Thrun and just smash.
That being said I went back to chord for a few reasons. First thing first, not having to get delirium is a huge boon for me. There are also a few more tricks and plays I can pull off with chord of calling that I can't with traverse. An example that comes to mind, I like to fire off a chord on my opponents upkeep and force them to make a decision. This play has been good for me vs both counter spell decks and removal heavy decks. Also most players don't keep convoke in mind when playing agents us, I can't blame them it's a weird mechanic.
I am sure alot of what I'm saying is nothing that's new to a lot of you, but iv been wanting to write it down and get my thoughts out thereu.
Hey I'm just picking this deck up after playing kiki chord for close to a year. I have a some what dumb question. Is tarmogoyf just not a good card for this deck?
4x death's shadow
4 x wild nacatl
4x monestary swift spear
2x gnarlwood dryad
1x tarmogoyf
4x street wraith
4 x gitaxian probe
4x mutagenic growth
4 x mishras-bauble
3x thoughtseize
2 x lighting bolt
4x bloodstained mire
4 x windswept heath
2 x wooded foot hills
1 x verdant catacomb
1x arid Mesa
1x stomping ground
1x overgrown tomb
1x blood crypt
1x sacred foundry
1x Godless shrine
Side bored
1x lighting helix
1x dismember
1x phyrexian unlife
1x Ranger of Eos
1x graft diggers cage
1x forest
1x tarmogoyf
1x nature's claim
1x ancient grudge
1x pyroclasm
1x stony silence
2 x inquisition of kozilek
2x hooting mandrills
Round one I played against a abzan planes walkers deck. Nothing to crazy I got the match 2-1. Hooting mandrills was a big deal in this match to get around abrupt decay.
Round two was a grixis thing in the ice deck. My opponent kept a bad hand game one and game two I had to many threats. Ranger of Eos hooting mandrills and tarmogoyf out of the bored helped went 2-0
Round three was nyay burn. I won 2-0 but I got seriously lucky. Game one I slammed a turn one and two swiftspear and played probes and baubles. I may have played a bit fast and lose with my life total but I knew that death's shadow was going to make or break the match up. A few things I learned from this match is that I need to be thinking about deflecting palm, not so much playing around it since you don't really have the time. Also I absent mindlessly cracked a fetch land when I was at zero life with a unlife in play (you can't pay life for affects if you don't have life). Anyway I feel like burn is a match up where you need to just jam damage.
Round four kiki evolution. I lost this one 1-2 and all I can say is that x/4 creatures are a house baloth having a 4 butt and gaining 4 life is a real deal Vs us, but I don't feel like this is one of those match ups that's just garbage. One thing to note. I had boreded In ancient grudge in for spell skite and engineered explosives I completely forgot that stoney silence would have been good to.
Round five was Vs RG tron not much to say I won this 2-0. I felt like it was just a race between what combo and his turn 3-4 wurmcoil
This deck is a blast to play and I don't feel much needs to change. One thing to note is the 3rd one drop slot between lynx dryad or kird ape. I firmly believe that it comes down to your play style. If you want to be more explosive the lynx is your man, personally I prefer the set it and forget style witg kird ape you just play him with a mountain and you got a 2/3 you don't need to maintain anything. Gnarlwood dryad is weird I don't know how I feel about him. The death touch is so freaking good, but iv had to many times where he's just a 1/1 death touch I dony know if he's correct but this week I'll be trying the ape.
In conclusion this deck is dope I love it lol
I don't think so. I run a 3/1 split and it never seems like it hurts the amount of times that I draw Nahiri. It lets me sneak one more Bullet in the deck and still have a good chance of drawing Her . I will say that im testing the full set at the moment.
Apologies a head of time if this has been asked further back but dose any one have a some what generic side-bored guide for the deck ?. I just want to see what other people are doing since Im pretty sure Im bording poorly and im giving wins
As a replacement to horizon canopy iv just been playing a 9th fetch land. Rite now its a verdant catacomb since i wanted to get my overgrown tomb but in the past its been a arid mesa .I could see playing a 2nd temple garden over that
I get that P&K are good iv been playing 2 of them for months now. Its just at my lgs it seems lack luster .no affinity its a lot of slow durdel decks and K-command and burn . So like the shatter shock mode of K command leaves me with a 1/1 flyer ? thats fine i guess the hunt master would leave me with a 2/2 and more then likely i discard a card? its hard to tell off hand i would have to try it out. I only ask since i feel we as kiki players should question why cards are in the deck and try new things. we all know p&k are great but what if X card would be good and people never try it since the general conciseness is that mom and dad are the best . Honestly I feel that nahiri the harbinger is the a good example of this . She was kinda pooed on at the start but I think that shes has shown how good she is in this deck . sorry for the rant and I dont want to come off as aggressive by any means I truly love the deck and Iv been playing it for months with great results i just want to help keep pushing the deck forward . I cant always just sit around and see what hoogland is going to do with the deck next .
oh and this is the list iv been running like i said its pretty stock
The escort was a waste of space in my maindeck. I really only put him in since i got a bit worried about having seven four drops in my main deck but i should have just played another walker or P&K
Riftsweeper was garbage i wanted to try it vs Visions but the decks that had it i never brought riftsweeper in . Sigarda was ok she came down in one game but i was already losing . I want to keep messing around with her some times i feel like i want one more monster to bring in in some match ups. The Celestial Purge was really just path to exile number 5 it was nice to hit kalitas traitor of ghet and Nahiri, the Harbinger so ill probably keep that around and try it out some more . sadly my lgs only had 3 rounds and i played the Mirror and 2 Grixis decks so i dint get to test to to much with some of the bored cards i wanted to try .
Before any one ask There is no Affinity Jund or Abzan CoCo at my lgs . Any way this post is to long so ill stop.
[4x tarmogoyf
4x dark confidant
2x scavenging ooze
2x tireless tracker
2x huntmaster of the fells
3x liliana of the veil
1x liliana the last hope
4x fatal push
3x inquisition of kozilek
3x thought size
3x terminate
3x kolaghan's command
1x abrupt decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x verdant catacomb
4x bloodstained mire
3x raging ravine
3x blooming marsh
2x Blackcleave cliffs
2x overgrown tomb
2x swamp
1x blood crypt
1x stomping grounds
1x tree top village
1x forest
SB
2x pithing needel
2x collective brutality
2x graft diggers cage
1x grim Lavamancer
1x stormbreath dragon
1x obstante baloth
1x abrupt decay
1x ancient grudge
1x Dammnation
1x night of souls betrayal
1x anger of the gods
1x painful truths]
Iv been enjoying this build it feels more Grindy then previous builds iv played. My Lgs meta is Weird, alot of people play abzan and fringe control decks like skred. With the 3 kolaghan's command the tireless tracker and Lili of the last hope I can one for one all day then start to pick up creatures or draw my self back In the game with clues. My side bored is set up to have a lot of just solid one of since I can't really count of the meta being the same week to week. People like to play alot of flavor of the week decks or home brews.
I fully agree with you. Id also like to say that some times with this deck it seems like we get to "cute" with it.
[4x birds of paradise
4x voice of resurgence
3x wall of omens
3x restoration angel
2x eternal witness
1x pia and Kiran nalaar
1x qasali pride mage
1x scavenging ooze
1x selfless spirit
1x slellskite
1x filigree familiar
1x obstante baloth
1x revilark
1x Kiki-Jiki mirror breaker
1x archangel of tithes
3x path to exile
1x lighting bolt
4x eldritch evolution
2x chord of calling
4x windswept heath
4x wooded foothills
2x razorverge thicket
2x stomping ground
3x forest
1x plains
1x Mountain
1x fire-lit thicket
1x sacred foundry
1x temple garden
1x over grown tomb
1x horizon Canopy
1x raging ravine]
My current side bored is in shambles so I'm not going to post it.
Some take aways I from this experience are lighting bolt is as we know a strong removal spell and I think it may have a place in the main. I personally liked killing other mana dorks and low to the ground duders like delver of secrets with out giving my opponent a land drop. Two restoration angel seemed like a low number for me. I have noticed I play out my restoration angel's much more aggressively then other people iv seen play the deck (it's popular at my lgs) as a result of this I punted a game because I ran my two angels out vs a control deck and forgot I dint have three in the deck anymore. Im not saying that it's the %100 correct thing to do seeing as I had to cus a pia and Karin from my list to make it fit, but I like to get in my opponents face with the flash 3/4.
The addition of filigree familiar felt solid. Outside of path to exile people don't want to kill it and seem hesitant to burn a counter spell on it. I like having one more "value" three drop to evolve into five drops. Additionally being colorless could come up and be a benefit, but this a small thing really just theory crafting. And being a 2/2 that can come back from revilark never hurts.
There seems to be this back and forth of what is best for the deck traverses or chord of calling. With my limited time with the traverse build I can tell you I missed some of the chord of calling tricks. But being one green mana is strong, I found my self using Traverse to set up evolution. Against blue opponents they had to think about if they want to counter the traverse or counter what I get.. Then you get Thrun and just smash.
That being said I went back to chord for a few reasons. First thing first, not having to get delirium is a huge boon for me. There are also a few more tricks and plays I can pull off with chord of calling that I can't with traverse. An example that comes to mind, I like to fire off a chord on my opponents upkeep and force them to make a decision. This play has been good for me vs both counter spell decks and removal heavy decks. Also most players don't keep convoke in mind when playing agents us, I can't blame them it's a weird mechanic.
I am sure alot of what I'm saying is nothing that's new to a lot of you, but iv been wanting to write it down and get my thoughts out thereu.
4x death's shadow
4 x wild nacatl
4x monestary swift spear
2x gnarlwood dryad
1x tarmogoyf
4x street wraith
4 x gitaxian probe
4x mutagenic growth
4 x mishras-bauble
3x thoughtseize
2 x lighting bolt
4x bloodstained mire
4 x windswept heath
2 x wooded foot hills
1 x verdant catacomb
1x arid Mesa
1x stomping ground
1x overgrown tomb
1x blood crypt
1x sacred foundry
1x Godless shrine
Side bored
1x lighting helix
1x dismember
1x phyrexian unlife
1x Ranger of Eos
1x graft diggers cage
1x forest
1x tarmogoyf
1x nature's claim
1x ancient grudge
1x pyroclasm
1x stony silence
2 x inquisition of kozilek
2x hooting mandrills
Round one I played against a abzan planes walkers deck. Nothing to crazy I got the match 2-1. Hooting mandrills was a big deal in this match to get around abrupt decay.
Round two was a grixis thing in the ice deck. My opponent kept a bad hand game one and game two I had to many threats. Ranger of Eos hooting mandrills and tarmogoyf out of the bored helped went 2-0
Round three was nyay burn. I won 2-0 but I got seriously lucky. Game one I slammed a turn one and two swiftspear and played probes and baubles. I may have played a bit fast and lose with my life total but I knew that death's shadow was going to make or break the match up. A few things I learned from this match is that I need to be thinking about deflecting palm, not so much playing around it since you don't really have the time. Also I absent mindlessly cracked a fetch land when I was at zero life with a unlife in play (you can't pay life for affects if you don't have life). Anyway I feel like burn is a match up where you need to just jam damage.
Round four kiki evolution. I lost this one 1-2 and all I can say is that x/4 creatures are a house baloth having a 4 butt and gaining 4 life is a real deal Vs us, but I don't feel like this is one of those match ups that's just garbage. One thing to note. I had boreded In ancient grudge in for spell skite and engineered explosives I completely forgot that stoney silence would have been good to.
Round five was Vs RG tron not much to say I won this 2-0. I felt like it was just a race between what combo and his turn 3-4 wurmcoil
This deck is a blast to play and I don't feel much needs to change. One thing to note is the 3rd one drop slot between lynx dryad or kird ape. I firmly believe that it comes down to your play style. If you want to be more explosive the lynx is your man, personally I prefer the set it and forget style witg kird ape you just play him with a mountain and you got a 2/3 you don't need to maintain anything. Gnarlwood dryad is weird I don't know how I feel about him. The death touch is so freaking good, but iv had to many times where he's just a 1/1 death touch I dony know if he's correct but this week I'll be trying the ape.
In conclusion this deck is dope I love it lol
oh and this is the list iv been running like i said its pretty stock
quick side note
The escort was a waste of space in my maindeck. I really only put him in since i got a bit worried about having seven four drops in my main deck but i should have just played another walker or P&K
Riftsweeper was garbage i wanted to try it vs Visions but the decks that had it i never brought riftsweeper in . Sigarda was ok she came down in one game but i was already losing . I want to keep messing around with her some times i feel like i want one more monster to bring in in some match ups. The Celestial Purge was really just path to exile number 5 it was nice to hit kalitas traitor of ghet and Nahiri, the Harbinger so ill probably keep that around and try it out some more . sadly my lgs only had 3 rounds and i played the Mirror and 2 Grixis decks so i dint get to test to to much with some of the bored cards i wanted to try .
Before any one ask There is no Affinity Jund or Abzan CoCo at my lgs . Any way this post is to long so ill stop.