While it is easy to forget, cards should be playable unsleeved.
DFCs work because of checklist cards. I can write “delver of secrets” on a checklist card and have in in my library every game.
For this ability, you are either recommending putting stickers on cards and repeatedly removing them (which would ruin the card or the sticker) or writing on a checklist-esque card something like “delver of secrets for 2 mana”, which wouldn’t be true at the start of each game and would require you to regularly replace those cards.
Sleeves are not and should not be mandatory equipment for a card effect to function.
Thanks for this. I needed some logic in the face of "well if you do a handstand and face left you can kinda see how these cards would work in paper Magic and everyone pretty much has the ability to do a handstand anyways, so I don't see what the issue is."
The second issue that noone is bringing up, besides the marked cards issue (of which I have another speaking point as well that I'll address further down) is that "Perpetually" doesn't just mean while it is on the battlefield. It means when it goes to ANY zone. Several people have suggested Skullbriar as a comparable example except that even he was designed to lose his counters in a hidden zone such as the hand or the Library. A card that perpetually Costs 1 more to cast costs one more to cast even if it has been exiled and back, has been shuffled into a library and redrawn (how do you distinguish it from other potential copies in the same deck?), dies and is returned to your hand via a Raise Dead-like card. Even if you were to mark it with stickers, have you ever tried to shuffle with stickers on the outside of a sleeve? I have. I can tell you that anything "easily removable" would potentially transfer to another card during shuffling if not be wiped from the sleeve entirely. And even if it DID stay, there's the matter of that card having an additional thickness which makes it a marked card. I don't care how few microns thick you think your sticker is, if a perfect fit sleeve adds thickness to a double-sleeved card, so will a sticker.
Lastly, there is human error whether intentionally or unintentionally. Lets say that I accidentally leave a sticker on between games where one of my cards was Perpetually given deathtouch (and for all you naysayers, if you've ever had an opponents card left in your deck after the game you would know that it happens without conscious effort) what is to stop me from claiming that I actually had this perpetual effect on my creature? If I could reasonably claim that my graveyard was shuffled into my library, there is nothing the judge can do but let me blatantly cheat and have that advantage over my opponent.
Don't get me wrong, as a huge HUGE proponent of everything Silver-Bordered I relish the craziness of these cards but even Silver-Bordered cards, no matter how wacky, have rules that govern how they work and NEVER give an unfair advantage (unless interpreted incorrectly like all the people trying to hide Cheatyfaces under cards).
For the second time in less than a week: card bannings do not belong in the Rumors section.
Arguably, there are a great many things in the rumor mill that don't belong here either. Like the entirety of any given spoiler season (if the cards are previewed, it's not a rumor its fact) someone once suggested that the Rumor Mill is actually more like a News Mill and that Baseless Speculation is what should be named Rumor Mill.
I'm a little bummed that I bought a copy and it hadn't even arrived yet when this ban hit. I was gonna put it into my pirate tribal edh deck. Thankfully, the store seems to be willing to assist me with an exchange.
That said, the CRC is probably banning this card with an eye towards cEDH because even though it's the least played version of EDH, it's the sanctioned version that has Prize support. Personally, I wished that they stuck to their original statement of also disallowing cards with exuberant price tags like Library of Alexandria as I will never be able to own a copy of Mishras Workshop but it's still legal in Commander. Timestwister as well. Which ironically is a combo with the card that just got banned. Lol
Self regulating doesn't mean squat when prizes are on the line. There's a reason that I don't play my cEDH decks with my casual group. There isn't anything fun or engaging about winning turn 3 or 4 but you can bet I'll be gunning for a t3-4 win if there's a box on the line!
Yes, look really very effective. But personally, I like more classical works. Because I personally do not like modern books, they rarely teach something eternal and are just a demonstration of the moment and what is now on the hype. That's why I personally recommend reading "heart of darkness" and essay on it you can get more and understand it more deeply. Because many reading it do not get to the bottom of it and it is very detrimental to a holistic understanding.
Uh... yeah. And this, uh... card is also not good for standard or... something?
I'm really glad that someone brought up the fact that P3k and Arabian Nights are sets that ALSO fit this break of UB. I'm a fierce advocate of Rule 0 and while I can kinda see someone getting upset about silver-bordered cards at the table, it irks me that people will actively bar people from using these cards. Yeah, I don't give a flip about your semantics of "I'm not saying that they can't play with them I'm just saying that I'm not going to play with someone that plays them." It's still gatekeeping.
But gatekeeping discussion aside, for those naysayers that say that "noone plays cards from Arabian Nights or P3k" I have for you the following list:
Loyal Retainers
Capture of Jingzhou
Strategic Planning
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
Ambition's Cost
Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
Imperial Seal
Overwhelming Forces
Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed
Burning of Xinye
Imperial Recruiter
Rolling Earthquake
Warrior's Oath
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Riding the Dilu Horse
Spoils of Victory
Three Visits
Guardian Beast
Ouellette
Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Brass
Library of Alexandria
If I come across anyone so ignorant as to refuse to play with UB cards, or "ban them" I'll be more than happy to exclude any card originally printed in either Arabian Nights or P3k from being played. Then we can all be unhappy.
I dont understand completely from a color pie, design and phylosofical perspective why the hell the overload must be payed with white mana.
Overload mean one-side mass destruction. But "destroy all creatures you don't control" as always has been a monoblack effect (see Overwhelming Forces, In Garruk's WakePlague Wind, Dread Cacodemon, Rain of Daggers etc.). That makes sense since black is a selfish color that wants to win at any cost
On the other hand, every single one white mass removal has always been symmetrical because it is in the color phylosophy the concept of balance, justice, order and equal retribution to everyone.
Somebody please explain me why this card can't be monoblack and I am forced to use a color that would do as a result, the exact opposite of what said color should do normally.
To answer your question, we first need to correct your presumptions about the ability Overload. Overload presents an alternative cost that when paid, replaces the word "target" in the spell with the word "each", thus making the effect even more grandiose or... Overloaded.
The misconception (that I descern here) on your part, is that Overload somehow makes the effect "each" "you dont control" which in incorrect. Thus, to answer your color philosophy question, as you stated, White does things equally or balanced and this spell cast for its "white part" or its White Overload cost would destroy each creature and each creature destroyed this way cant be regenerated. It's meant as an homage to the Damnation/Wrath of God sweeper spells that do exactly what the overloaded effect does but with a fixed version for Black as Black doesnt typically do nonselective mass creature wipe with no upside.
Comparing the Text Lands to the AFR Basic lands that have both gorgeous art and flavourful text and what will undoubtedly be a cheap price, making the high priced rip off text lands look even more obscene.
...and still I bought them! Lol here's hoping these Tilt! people just as hard at my LGS as they do on here!
I'm curious who they thought would be the target group for these.
MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
I'm actually going to be rifling my collection to see how I can come up with $320 for the foil 10x set. I dont yet know if I want them for my UNEDH (would turn off a couple of cards like Topdeck the Halls and Artful Looter) or the more likely choice, for my Limited box: a set of sleeves and 10x each basic land I use for Limited. Would be a useful tilt for that little bit of competitive advantage. *evil grin*
Or you can just ignore the back. There are Commander players who build a deck and ignore one or more colors.
903.4 The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
903.4c The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 711) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 711.4a.
903.5c A card can be included in a Commander deck only if every color in its color identity is also found in the color identity of the deck’s commander.
Thanks for playing.
Edit - clarification: If you were suggesting using as a commander, sure you are correct but Xcric was referring to its use in the 99. A monocolored White EDH deck cant use this "amazing white card" so it falls flat.
I personally hated TWD Secret Lair, but I also wanted to run Rick because I have a tribal humans Morophon deck, and he's the best human lord they've printed. For a while it made me really salty, and I felt trapped between two bad outcomes. They always say, "in commander you don't need every card," but it still feels bad when they made a card that mechanically fits your deck but goes against the look and feel of the game that you love. But then I just bought a magic themed proxy which was both less expensive and better looking. Now I run the card mechanically but it doesn't take me out of the world of Magic. Problem solved.
I'm not happy about this direction for the game, but I also think everyone should play with what they want, however they want. TWD? sure. Proxies? sure. The only thing that will determine if I play with you is if you're fun to play with. I'm not going to judge anyone. I also think we should keep an open mind. I'm a huge LotR fan. I wish they were NOT making a crossover, but they are, so at least I should stay positive for now. Maybe it'll be awesome!
Thank you for this. This gives me hope that there are some people out there that dont care for this new direction in Magic but will still be welcoming of people who have invested in those sets for the most important reason of all: to have fun.
I keep bringing up my UNEDH deck because it's an experience. In bringing my UNEDH to my LGS Commander group (I miss you guys!) Its become something that I'm associated with and its actively looked forward to. I've played with people that have heard of my deck through word of mouth and the shared joy that they get from being in the same nonsensical game with me warms me to my core.
Does this mean that I ALWAYS want to play with my UNEDH deck? No. I have a great many EDH decks that I have built to cater to my whims and fancies. Decks that go hard and win in 2-3 turns with a proper setup, decks that I've copied to see if I like a particular Commander or not. Decks that Ive painstakingly combed the extensive database of cards to find the right themed cards (Xira Arien nonhumanoid insect tribal, or Queen Marchess Monarchy for example) and I have just as much fun with those "pure" Magic games as I do with the UNEDH deck.
I think the problem that I have with the negative backlash this is getting is that it feels like people are prejudiced against these without even knowing what they are about yet, based off of market speculation, based off of gut reactions and it makes me worry that because of these prejudices that people will refuse to give them a shot and just condemn them, dead in the water,
Does everyone like playing with my UNEDH deck? Of course not. But I commend those that give it a shot rather than just refusing to play with it on prejudice alone. Its dividing and alot of the prejudices are based on negative perceptions they may have had about them. It still rakes me over the coals with that one guy saying "I dont want to be forced to do the hokey pokey or any of that [s-word]" Yeah, uh... that's not how those cards work! And that long convoluted "what-if" scenario that involves Mirrorweave, Blacker Lotus, and Mindslaver that "allows" you to shred your opponents Magic deck is like trying to skydive without a parachute and live: it's highly unlikely that you'll succeed but if you do, you're probably gonna end up with a whole mess of broken bones for the attempt.
Here is the problem with telling me "I'm not saying that you cant play UB cards just that I'm not going to play them with you." I am an AVID fan of the Silver Bordered sets. So much so, that annually I purchase the Holiday promos from ebay as well as any peripheral silver Bordered product (Ponies: the Galloping. Unsanctioned) to add to my collection. I regularly have sleeved up a Silver Bordered EDH deck that I used to bring to my local game group. I would find that every so often, I would come across one rando in the group that would rather not play with silver-bordered cards and when I rose to the occasion by bringing out a regular commander deck, that random player ended up using his WhaleCash.dec to beat the pod before many of us had begun to start doing anything. Later, in a subsequent game with this particular person, when one of his huge plays was on the receiving end of a very inexpensive disruption he proceeded to salt until we talked him into not throwing the game but continuing to play where he eventually got his gas back and yet again, WhaleCash.dec won the game. Again.
This is not to say that EVERY person that refuses to play with silver Bordered cards is a self-absorbed jerk that just wants to feel good about his huge... investment/compensation, but what that unfairly leads me to want to do is keep a spare cEDH deck to bring to those games as a comparable alternative. I want a good casual game as much as anyone else but when I am not only told what I can play in a game or not (the alternative being to sit there while everyone finishes their 1.5+ hour long game to wait for a reshuffle in the pods that allows me to play what I came there to play, or alternatively that I waste a trip to my LGS expecting to share the fun of a deck that I built that /I/ feel awesome about but cant share with anyone because they refuse to play with my silver Bordered cards) what that says to me is "Why did I bother purchasing cards that noone will let me play?"
Take that silver-bordered situation and apply it to UE cards. Someone who may NOT be ingrained in the local playgroup suddenly arrives hoping to play with their Gandalf EDH deck (I'm not even gonna TRY to fight with you about Legacy/Vintage since the bar for entry is "Whales Only" already anyways) and then told that they cant play with it [in that playgroup], a deck they just spent money purchasing singles at that very same LGS to put into their newly created deck. "Well, I suppose I've got this other deck though it's kinda just out of the box. I havent changed it very much." Sits down and faces 3 fully tuned EDH decks (not even cEDH. Regular well put-together decks can be JUST as explosive/daunting to players with an underperforming deck). They have a bad experience and now they wonder why they put money 1st) into new cards for a deck that is automatically eschewed at their LGS and 2nd) into this game at all when it's full of angry nerds that appear to be inclusive and not welcoming.
This is also a bit of an egregious "what-if?" scenario since in general, most EDH groups I've played with are okay with alot as long as you dont sit down with your completely proxy cEDH deck and win consistently on turn 2. Still, the outcry on these cards leads me to believe that I would be ASHAMED to be a part of your playgroups.
Reminds me of a time that my friend ALMOST put Magic back down again recently. Went to his LGS after a long hiatus and purchased a couple of cards for his deck from the store's binders. Sat down to one of the only people that looked to be playing EDH that evening and presented himself with a "Hey, I've been out of the game for a little bit and my deck is not be super fast. Take it easy on me?" To which the guy told him "Yeah, I've got a pretty slow deck too." They proceeded to play a few turns in which his opponent clearly lied about the speed of his deck, and then no lie, turns to his disinterested neighbor and declared "Dude! I'm about to [F-word] this dude up!" And proceeded to combo out and CONTINUED comboing out even though he was clearly in a position to win but proceeded to goldfish anyways, when my friend started to pack his deck up. And the guy turned to him and said "Why do you gotta be salty like that? What's your problem?"
THIS happened and it didnt even involve restricted cards. THIS is what I imagine casual players with their LotR sets and whatever other UE cards in their various decks will be putting up with when people declare that they refuse to play with UE. I mean, maybe I'm worried over nothing. Maybe there will even be UE groups that REFUSE to play against people that have ABUR Dual lands in their decks. In fact, I think with the possible exception of this sweet lady in my old EDH group that's gonna be a new personal for me. Restrict my cards? I'll restrict yours out of spite. Oh, does that mean that you cant play in my playgroup? Oh well, go cry in the corner n00b. Noone cares.
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
The real question is just how much of the immersion of Universes Beyond will take away from the enjoyment of MTG itself to where it's not really MTG anymore and I think Tolarian Community College brought that argument up quite well. MTG has gone from players immersing themselves as Wizards casting spells fighting against other Wizards to Planeswalkers doing pretty much the same thing to just about throwing that concept out the window without thinking of what the repercussions will entail. Maybe instead of incorporating different IP's (Intellectual Properties) into MTG they could've taken different art styles from those IP's by incorporating it into the MTG lore to where it doesn't alienate those who've already spent tons of money on this game. That's the direction that they should've stuck with instead of Universes Beyond IMO.
Take for example the Anime / Manga art style they chose for War of the Spark's Planeswalker cards, it was a way to pay homage to those IP's without actually diluting MTG as a brand. Imagine If they had styled cards based on 1960's Rankin/Bass for Christmas Secret Lairs or hired someone from a famous IP to do their take on the MTG lore like maybe Jim Lee from DC Comics. We also saw this in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths where it was more inspired from art styles of American Comic Books and Graphic Novels. So already there's plenty of ways Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro can go about this without diluting the MTG lore though I get why they want to expand beyond it in order to get fan bases from other IP's into MTG. If anything the push for IP Crossovers in MTG will create a pseudo-Reserve List for non-Reserve List cards based on MTG lore.
That's going to be really bad for the affordability of the game for players who are wanting to get a hold of EDH / Commander staples without having to proxy them simply because it creates an artificial demand for these cards that wouldn't exist If these IP Crossovers were more incorporated as nothing but art styles instead of throwing in said actual IP for the sake of corporate greed. Of course the Secondary Market hasn't done MTG any favors recently due to hyper inflation woes created by the pandemic with players spending their stimulus checks on cards that have gone up in demand while flipping them for short-term cash with the trend continuing the longer the pandemic persists. We'll only see a cool off of the MTG Market once things get back to a relative normal. As of now most players are mostly playing on Arena and MTGO with Spelltable matches here and there.
You know what's bad for the affordability of the game? Not reprinting Dual Lands or other Commander/Legacy staples because of "the Reserved List." But WotC has been doing that for years and could literally give a flying frick about reprinting those cards and breathing life into dying formats. I dont have several grand to spend on a single set of Duals for my 5 color Commander deck, but I guarantee you the guy that shows up with them to play is going to do alot better than I am.
Also, I see alot of people assuming that these UE sets will be Standard or Modern legal. Since when has a supplemental product (barring Modern Horizons) been Standard or Modern legal? So until they come out and say that the winter set is going to be a Disney/Pixar Collaboration and legal in Standard then I'm not going to fret about it.
Lastly, again, I stress that the majority of Magic players are kitchen table players. They arent browsing forums or getting into arguments over what one Youtuber's opinion on the health of the game is or whether or not crossover sets are going to kill the game. I reiterate Maro's saying about NOT EVERY MAGIC PRODUCT IS FOR EVERYONE! Like this Time Spiral Remastered set. There are a ton of people that are gonna be excited for sought after reprints, or nostalgia for the Time Spiral block. I could care less. Am I suddenly going to tell people they cant play with cards if they came from Time Spiral Remastered?
And before you idiots start a witch hunt about "well those cards arent mechanically unique or breaking the IP that is Magic" I will have tou know that I currently have several EDH decks that I have commissioned custom arts for the Commanders because I LIKE the idea of a crossover in Magic! I dont sweat over FNM or local tournaments. I play the game to mostly have fun and to EXPRESS MYSELF. If these IP crossovers make it easier for me or anyone else to do that while bringing more lifeblood into the game with more casual kitchen table players, I am okay with that.
I really would like to know where you get your facts from. I've NEVER had another player reach across and rip any of my silver Bordered EDH cards. And I (used to before 2020) regularly play my UNEDH deck in my EDH group. In all honesty, I probably have more value in that deck than most players short of a mr moneybags who has pimped his deck with Alphas, judge promos and masterpieces. And God forbid anyone DOES reach across the table and rip up my "useless silver Bordered cards." I'd treat it just the same as if they'd ripped up a Black Lotus that I own (in my dreams) and I'd send that person to the hospital.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic." So to assume that "everyone" would hate these cards out of existence or that there should be some sort of silver or gold or blue or purple or red or pink of whatever color you fancy, treatment for these Crossover cards to make sure that players know they cant play the rainbow border cards in "regular" Magic games is an absurd notion.
Well, goodbye paycheck 2022...
Maybe I can save myself some headache and just buy a singleton foil set on release and just enjoy drafting a case... lol
Edit: Not to say there isn't much love for everything though, I'm just a HUGE Un-Nut.
Thanks for this. I needed some logic in the face of "well if you do a handstand and face left you can kinda see how these cards would work in paper Magic and everyone pretty much has the ability to do a handstand anyways, so I don't see what the issue is."
The second issue that noone is bringing up, besides the marked cards issue (of which I have another speaking point as well that I'll address further down) is that "Perpetually" doesn't just mean while it is on the battlefield. It means when it goes to ANY zone. Several people have suggested Skullbriar as a comparable example except that even he was designed to lose his counters in a hidden zone such as the hand or the Library. A card that perpetually Costs 1 more to cast costs one more to cast even if it has been exiled and back, has been shuffled into a library and redrawn (how do you distinguish it from other potential copies in the same deck?), dies and is returned to your hand via a Raise Dead-like card. Even if you were to mark it with stickers, have you ever tried to shuffle with stickers on the outside of a sleeve? I have. I can tell you that anything "easily removable" would potentially transfer to another card during shuffling if not be wiped from the sleeve entirely. And even if it DID stay, there's the matter of that card having an additional thickness which makes it a marked card. I don't care how few microns thick you think your sticker is, if a perfect fit sleeve adds thickness to a double-sleeved card, so will a sticker.
Lastly, there is human error whether intentionally or unintentionally. Lets say that I accidentally leave a sticker on between games where one of my cards was Perpetually given deathtouch (and for all you naysayers, if you've ever had an opponents card left in your deck after the game you would know that it happens without conscious effort) what is to stop me from claiming that I actually had this perpetual effect on my creature? If I could reasonably claim that my graveyard was shuffled into my library, there is nothing the judge can do but let me blatantly cheat and have that advantage over my opponent.
Don't get me wrong, as a huge HUGE proponent of everything Silver-Bordered I relish the craziness of these cards but even Silver-Bordered cards, no matter how wacky, have rules that govern how they work and NEVER give an unfair advantage (unless interpreted incorrectly like all the people trying to hide Cheatyfaces under cards).
Arguably, there are a great many things in the rumor mill that don't belong here either. Like the entirety of any given spoiler season (if the cards are previewed, it's not a rumor its fact) someone once suggested that the Rumor Mill is actually more like a News Mill and that Baseless Speculation is what should be named Rumor Mill.
That said, the CRC is probably banning this card with an eye towards cEDH because even though it's the least played version of EDH, it's the sanctioned version that has Prize support. Personally, I wished that they stuck to their original statement of also disallowing cards with exuberant price tags like Library of Alexandria as I will never be able to own a copy of Mishras Workshop but it's still legal in Commander. Timestwister as well. Which ironically is a combo with the card that just got banned. Lol
Self regulating doesn't mean squat when prizes are on the line. There's a reason that I don't play my cEDH decks with my casual group. There isn't anything fun or engaging about winning turn 3 or 4 but you can bet I'll be gunning for a t3-4 win if there's a box on the line!
Uh... yeah. And this, uh... card is also not good for standard or... something?
Gotta love bots!
Also, kinda hope that "Whenever an Illusion you control dies..." means that I've got to examine the real estate in my 5c Changelings EDH.
But gatekeeping discussion aside, for those naysayers that say that "noone plays cards from Arabian Nights or P3k" I have for you the following list:
Loyal Retainers
Capture of Jingzhou
Strategic Planning
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
Ambition's Cost
Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
Imperial Seal
Overwhelming Forces
Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed
Burning of Xinye
Imperial Recruiter
Rolling Earthquake
Warrior's Oath
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Riding the Dilu Horse
Spoils of Victory
Three Visits
Guardian Beast
Ouellette
Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Brass
Library of Alexandria
If I come across anyone so ignorant as to refuse to play with UB cards, or "ban them" I'll be more than happy to exclude any card originally printed in either Arabian Nights or P3k from being played. Then we can all be unhappy.
To answer your question, we first need to correct your presumptions about the ability Overload. Overload presents an alternative cost that when paid, replaces the word "target" in the spell with the word "each", thus making the effect even more grandiose or... Overloaded.
The misconception (that I descern here) on your part, is that Overload somehow makes the effect "each" "you dont control" which in incorrect. Thus, to answer your color philosophy question, as you stated, White does things equally or balanced and this spell cast for its "white part" or its White Overload cost would destroy each creature and each creature destroyed this way cant be regenerated. It's meant as an homage to the Damnation/Wrath of God sweeper spells that do exactly what the overloaded effect does but with a fixed version for Black as Black doesnt typically do nonselective mass creature wipe with no upside.
...and still I bought them! Lol here's hoping these Tilt! people just as hard at my LGS as they do on here!
MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
I'm actually going to be rifling my collection to see how I can come up with $320 for the foil 10x set. I dont yet know if I want them for my UNEDH (would turn off a couple of cards like Topdeck the Halls and Artful Looter) or the more likely choice, for my Limited box: a set of sleeves and 10x each basic land I use for Limited. Would be a useful tilt for that little bit of competitive advantage. *evil grin*
903.4 The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
903.4c The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 711) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 711.4a.
903.5c A card can be included in a Commander deck only if every color in its color identity is also found in the color identity of the deck’s commander.
Thanks for playing.
Edit - clarification: If you were suggesting using as a commander, sure you are correct but Xcric was referring to its use in the 99. A monocolored White EDH deck cant use this "amazing white card" so it falls flat.
Thank you for this. This gives me hope that there are some people out there that dont care for this new direction in Magic but will still be welcoming of people who have invested in those sets for the most important reason of all: to have fun.
I keep bringing up my UNEDH deck because it's an experience. In bringing my UNEDH to my LGS Commander group (I miss you guys!) Its become something that I'm associated with and its actively looked forward to. I've played with people that have heard of my deck through word of mouth and the shared joy that they get from being in the same nonsensical game with me warms me to my core.
Does this mean that I ALWAYS want to play with my UNEDH deck? No. I have a great many EDH decks that I have built to cater to my whims and fancies. Decks that go hard and win in 2-3 turns with a proper setup, decks that I've copied to see if I like a particular Commander or not. Decks that Ive painstakingly combed the extensive database of cards to find the right themed cards (Xira Arien nonhumanoid insect tribal, or Queen Marchess Monarchy for example) and I have just as much fun with those "pure" Magic games as I do with the UNEDH deck.
I think the problem that I have with the negative backlash this is getting is that it feels like people are prejudiced against these without even knowing what they are about yet, based off of market speculation, based off of gut reactions and it makes me worry that because of these prejudices that people will refuse to give them a shot and just condemn them, dead in the water,
Does everyone like playing with my UNEDH deck? Of course not. But I commend those that give it a shot rather than just refusing to play with it on prejudice alone. Its dividing and alot of the prejudices are based on negative perceptions they may have had about them. It still rakes me over the coals with that one guy saying "I dont want to be forced to do the hokey pokey or any of that [s-word]" Yeah, uh... that's not how those cards work! And that long convoluted "what-if" scenario that involves Mirrorweave, Blacker Lotus, and Mindslaver that "allows" you to shred your opponents Magic deck is like trying to skydive without a parachute and live: it's highly unlikely that you'll succeed but if you do, you're probably gonna end up with a whole mess of broken bones for the attempt.
This is not to say that EVERY person that refuses to play with silver Bordered cards is a self-absorbed jerk that just wants to feel good about his huge... investment/compensation, but what that unfairly leads me to want to do is keep a spare cEDH deck to bring to those games as a comparable alternative. I want a good casual game as much as anyone else but when I am not only told what I can play in a game or not (the alternative being to sit there while everyone finishes their 1.5+ hour long game to wait for a reshuffle in the pods that allows me to play what I came there to play, or alternatively that I waste a trip to my LGS expecting to share the fun of a deck that I built that /I/ feel awesome about but cant share with anyone because they refuse to play with my silver Bordered cards) what that says to me is "Why did I bother purchasing cards that noone will let me play?"
Take that silver-bordered situation and apply it to UE cards. Someone who may NOT be ingrained in the local playgroup suddenly arrives hoping to play with their Gandalf EDH deck (I'm not even gonna TRY to fight with you about Legacy/Vintage since the bar for entry is "Whales Only" already anyways) and then told that they cant play with it [in that playgroup], a deck they just spent money purchasing singles at that very same LGS to put into their newly created deck. "Well, I suppose I've got this other deck though it's kinda just out of the box. I havent changed it very much." Sits down and faces 3 fully tuned EDH decks (not even cEDH. Regular well put-together decks can be JUST as explosive/daunting to players with an underperforming deck). They have a bad experience and now they wonder why they put money 1st) into new cards for a deck that is automatically eschewed at their LGS and 2nd) into this game at all when it's full of angry nerds that appear to be inclusive and not welcoming.
This is also a bit of an egregious "what-if?" scenario since in general, most EDH groups I've played with are okay with alot as long as you dont sit down with your completely proxy cEDH deck and win consistently on turn 2. Still, the outcry on these cards leads me to believe that I would be ASHAMED to be a part of your playgroups.
Reminds me of a time that my friend ALMOST put Magic back down again recently. Went to his LGS after a long hiatus and purchased a couple of cards for his deck from the store's binders. Sat down to one of the only people that looked to be playing EDH that evening and presented himself with a "Hey, I've been out of the game for a little bit and my deck is not be super fast. Take it easy on me?" To which the guy told him "Yeah, I've got a pretty slow deck too." They proceeded to play a few turns in which his opponent clearly lied about the speed of his deck, and then no lie, turns to his disinterested neighbor and declared "Dude! I'm about to [F-word] this dude up!" And proceeded to combo out and CONTINUED comboing out even though he was clearly in a position to win but proceeded to goldfish anyways, when my friend started to pack his deck up. And the guy turned to him and said "Why do you gotta be salty like that? What's your problem?"
THIS happened and it didnt even involve restricted cards. THIS is what I imagine casual players with their LotR sets and whatever other UE cards in their various decks will be putting up with when people declare that they refuse to play with UE. I mean, maybe I'm worried over nothing. Maybe there will even be UE groups that REFUSE to play against people that have ABUR Dual lands in their decks. In fact, I think with the possible exception of this sweet lady in my old EDH group that's gonna be a new personal for me. Restrict my cards? I'll restrict yours out of spite. Oh, does that mean that you cant play in my playgroup? Oh well, go cry in the corner n00b. Noone cares.
You know what's bad for the affordability of the game? Not reprinting Dual Lands or other Commander/Legacy staples because of "the Reserved List." But WotC has been doing that for years and could literally give a flying frick about reprinting those cards and breathing life into dying formats. I dont have several grand to spend on a single set of Duals for my 5 color Commander deck, but I guarantee you the guy that shows up with them to play is going to do alot better than I am.
Also, I see alot of people assuming that these UE sets will be Standard or Modern legal. Since when has a supplemental product (barring Modern Horizons) been Standard or Modern legal? So until they come out and say that the winter set is going to be a Disney/Pixar Collaboration and legal in Standard then I'm not going to fret about it.
Lastly, again, I stress that the majority of Magic players are kitchen table players. They arent browsing forums or getting into arguments over what one Youtuber's opinion on the health of the game is or whether or not crossover sets are going to kill the game. I reiterate Maro's saying about NOT EVERY MAGIC PRODUCT IS FOR EVERYONE! Like this Time Spiral Remastered set. There are a ton of people that are gonna be excited for sought after reprints, or nostalgia for the Time Spiral block. I could care less. Am I suddenly going to tell people they cant play with cards if they came from Time Spiral Remastered?
And before you idiots start a witch hunt about "well those cards arent mechanically unique or breaking the IP that is Magic" I will have tou know that I currently have several EDH decks that I have commissioned custom arts for the Commanders because I LIKE the idea of a crossover in Magic! I dont sweat over FNM or local tournaments. I play the game to mostly have fun and to EXPRESS MYSELF. If these IP crossovers make it easier for me or anyone else to do that while bringing more lifeblood into the game with more casual kitchen table players, I am okay with that.
I really would like to know where you get your facts from. I've NEVER had another player reach across and rip any of my silver Bordered EDH cards. And I (used to before 2020) regularly play my UNEDH deck in my EDH group. In all honesty, I probably have more value in that deck than most players short of a mr moneybags who has pimped his deck with Alphas, judge promos and masterpieces. And God forbid anyone DOES reach across the table and rip up my "useless silver Bordered cards." I'd treat it just the same as if they'd ripped up a Black Lotus that I own (in my dreams) and I'd send that person to the hospital.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic." So to assume that "everyone" would hate these cards out of existence or that there should be some sort of silver or gold or blue or purple or red or pink of whatever color you fancy, treatment for these Crossover cards to make sure that players know they cant play the rainbow border cards in "regular" Magic games is an absurd notion.