MTG Salvation

Good job. I also just checked and Join the Ranks puts soldiers in at instant speed to. Kinda interesting ways to make soldier tokens.

Chandra out of the board really helps the matchup against mill. If I knew I would see a mill deck I would run 3.

GRB belongs in the deck. I was simply debating the MD/SB virtues of him. The whole reason he's there in the first place is because he is really good against Jund, as was illustrated above. On the play he can be a blowout. Even on the draw, the abilty to set your opponent back and then trade with BBE isn't bad especially if you're taking out manlands. He's also our best defense against Tectonic Edge. My debate simply comes from seeing a lot of decks without as many non-basics. That along with my poor rolling to go first. Has anybody every tested 2 main and 2 side? That way you have 2 for manlands and manascrew g1.

Bobdaboa: I think you have too much going on. I would probably cut the warp world.
The splash sure looks interesting, but setting valakut back a turn is annoying as I noticed when I tried the B splash. Rampaging Baloths seams better than Broodmother especially with Realm Razer.

something like
-2 Warp World +1 Oracle +1 RG
and then change the SB. Otherwise it seams fine. That's cool that LBT is working out for you. I have been considering testing them again.

List I ran tonight fnm, 2-3 finish. 54 ppl
Wins: Rd 1 WU allies (2-1), Rd 2 UW control (1-2), Rd 3 Newb (2-0), Rd 4 Jund (0-2), Rd 5 Mystic (1-2)

Rd 2 lost g3 with him at 3 life and me with two turns to top deck mountain with 2 active valakuts. Got bolt and GRB, he countered the bolt and stabilized with his 2nd Baneslayer

Mulliganned a 1 lander game 2 and kept a mediocre 5, can't do that with Jund matchup.

Mystic was a rough matchup, and I made a bad play naming KotR with a pithing needle instead of his land.

Ran the 3 BBE because I wasn't sure where my 4th one was. Since I usually play it as a 5 drop cause of GRB. Hated the 3rd Explore in there and wished there were 4 RG all night. Played a lot of wasted explores tonight. Oracle was once again amazing. Had a turn with an oracle out and double valakut with two explores in hand. Really had a chance to explode there, but neither explore drew me into more land, and ended up only playing the 2 additional lands in hand. Sad because RG would have been a shuffle and a mountain in play. I'll go back to a 4/2 split, though I was having better luck with 26 land deck.

I hated not running Seer's Sundial. I have been testing it so much with sundial and find it best as a 3 of. That's because to really maximize its use you want to drop it T3-5 and make sure blightnings don't ruin your day, and ensure constant land drops.

I think with Bursts main that Magma spray is kinda redundant. Slingbow Trap was good in theory, but I never wanted to SB them in. Fiery Fall makes so much more sense anyway. I guess I was thinking that the meta was heavy vampire but I think its going away from that.

I think I'm going to go up to 4BBE and move the GRBs to SB. They are really good on the play, but not great on the draw. That or go 2/2 split MD and SB.

I may go something like
-4 GRB (to SB)
+3 Sundial +1 BBE
-1 explore, +1 RG

Aisu, I like what you've said. IMO a better use of 8 mana is hellkite. At 8 mana it comes down and clears board, then continues to swing for 5 in the air next turn. Lavaball does have the advantage of taking out Jund's raging ravines. I still like Lavaball, but I haven't managed to fit that or hellkite in my list for awhile.

There's too many good things to run. I think the overall way this deck usually wins, in a really general term, is tempo. Basically bolt/blast early plays by you're opp and then play a 4 drop on turn 3. Keep this up and you're board position is better than your opp, usually. I think in the games you lose so much tempo that you need an 8 mana spell and the times it will actually be there for you should be minimized. So much time is gonna be spent developing your own board anyway.

I do think Lavaball trap could have some use in a colorless deck, or a something more controlling I think the traditional version can usually skip in.

Speaking of colorless, I really like the vengeful rebirth, and fiery fall synergy.

I'm currently back to a X-less deck since I added BBe again. Also, Seer's Sundial, Oracle, and Explore go really well together. Don't knock it unless you've tried it.

Quote from Jellow3579

Are you sure you don't mean Jace? I don't understand how 'Jani could be a problem, it seems really hard to not get some burn by turn eight, if you're worried about the LD, and the lifegain from the Helix can be overcome quite easily.

I lost G2 of my first round at gameday to Vengeant. It was basically UW, and he managed to get a turn 3 vengeant and I didn't have burn or anything that turn, and then he countered my next 3 plays (all creature drops) and won. So, yeah anytime a card can win the game its annoying. I'm not sure how many lists still run a red splash for vengeant though. T3 Jace is also annoying as he gained counters too fast. Pithing Needle seams like a perfect answer, I suppose running 2 in that slot wouldn't be too bad.

What about Slingbow Trap as an answer to early baneslayers and persecutors?

Bant is not a good matchup. Managed to take out a baneslayer, war monk, and Jace with a lavalanche though. Still I am missing the burst lightnings. Also, what do you guys think about gladeheart vs fog in the SB? I've been running fog with the thought that it will usually prevent more damage than a gladeheart will gain me, but maybe it's better to have the gladeheart eating removal? Also I want to have 2 spots SB for either Stone Idol Trap, Kazuul, Lavaball Trap, or Hellkite. Please help me decide.

My current list,

The Black splash is really just a splash. Most games I don't grab the swamp until I have a lavalanche in hand and want to use it. The turn 3 Oracle or Ruinblaster can be deadly. I will often wait until I can drop the Oracle with a terramorphic in hand. Getting rid of the KHE lowers the shuffling power of the deck, but I still find the oracle to be a bear and a must answer card.

Along with Seer's Sundial this kind of ramp deck can actually generate a good deal of card advantage. I went up to 3 Sundials for a bit, they are really nice to see turn 4 after you've just been blightning. I think ROE will really give this deck some nice things since the Eldrazi are all so masive. We are one of the few decks that can play them.

Anyway, RDW is still scary. I never really like Gladehearts, as I prefer the responsive package of Fog, Stone Idol Trap, and Magma Spray but it is still a tough match. I wanted to fit too much into the board. I still really like Banefire, and would probably run it over the Trap in a slower meta.

The best advice against LD in general is to hold your valakuts back, and only play them when you can activate them. Since the rest of our lands are usually basics this makes all other non basic LD dead against us. Of course, this is not always possible to do since sometimes all you have is valakut and you need to make your land drops. In either case goblin ruinblasters help. I don't see the room for trace of abundance in this deck, but nature's spiral can definitely have SB room. With the black splash you can run grim discovery SB, which is much better than nature's spiral.

I did test searing blaze, and while it was nice sometimes it is another terrible topdeck. I think anything that is a worse top deck than bolt/mountain really needs to be justified to run. So burst lightning is better simply because it can do 4 damage as a top deck as opposed to the 1 that searing blaze can do. Yes Searing blaze can be better early, but this isn't an aggro or zoo deck, so early damage while important shouldn't come at the loss of late game damage.

On the BBE issue, I wouldn't tell anybody not to play it. As we should all know, it is a card advantage hasty elf. Granted its not as good in this deck as Jund, but cascading into a harrow is still nuts. After that it can act like a really big wood elf with RG. Cascading into KHE and ME can also be good in the right situations. I personally would love to play BBE, but I can't find the room anymore.

As for playing around tectonic edge, ruinblasters are best. Still edge and grim discovery gets annoying really fast. Especially if you're playing against vamps and they're bringing back Kalastria guy and have bloodghast out too. I'm thinking that Magma spray may come back into my SB.

Lavalanche is so Good

Vengeful Rebirth has great synergy with Avenger of Zendikar, lol

The black splash is testing rather well. The setback on valakut isn't really a bad thing. Besides its fairly easy to know when you're going to have an active valakut and not. I mean even before I added the swamp, there are some games when you grab an extra forest because u want to wait or your valakut was destroyed. Anyway the ability to board Grim Discovery alone makes it worth it. Grab a ruinblaster and valakut lol. You can even SB in a single tectonic edge and tutor it for the control matchups.

I don't know about finding room for terminate, but I could see myself running Pulses over Naturalize in the SB for sure. Too bad I traded mine away.

The cost on Lavalanche isn't that bad, and its ability to hit flyers is amazing. This can kill Jwar Jwar Sphinx, Nighthawk, Baneslayer. Think of it like Comet Storm sorcery speed that hits all of their creatures and them for the same price as CS hitting 2 targets.

Also 4 Oracles sure is terrifying for the opponent. I haven't been keeping strict numbers, but I probably draw an average of 1.5 outta Oracles since sometimes they last a couple turns. Seer's Sundial has also been pleasant, as a two of.

Also, I'm not running Kazuul anymore since I think its better for control decks, though if boss naya gets big in my area I will consider it. On the other hand, I'm thinking of going up to 3 for Stone Idol Trap in the SB. This thing is BIG and Colorless. Usually removal plus a bigger Ball Lightning for 4. This is a big tempo swing vs Jund since its about a third of their life.

Haha, the problem with the I'm not ever blocking strategy is that lifegain isn't that good. I'll admit sometimes you can take some damage, but then again sometimes you just have to block. If you really want to run Gladehearts main though, then I would advocate Sundials and Fogs for more CA and dmg prevention. As for the double green problems I do have a suggestion. I replaced my 2 panoramas with 2 raging ravings, this gives me something else to do with my mana, more green mana on the board, and somethng else to fetch with my map expeditions. The downside that it doesn't trigger KHE isn't too big of a deal, even was I was running KHE.

Dekt: I'm glad you see how powerful the KHEs can be. Funny thing is I've actually been testing a deck without them.

Avenger of Zendikar is kinda crazy. I tested it early on and think it can be good, but would mainly run it as a SB card. Should be good against WW and Naya. Other than that I prefer my expensive cards to do direct damage.

I've also been testing Bloodbraid again. This was part of some weird testing I have been doing to maximize the chance of seeing an Oracle or BBE on turn 3 using, 4xRG and 4xExplore and of course the 8 creatures. I've since gone down to 3x Explore. It doesn't have the explosiveness as KHE but having these early drops can be better for tempo. Sometimes I forget in the scope of things that a turn 3 BBE can be really good. However, after testing I still find Oracle and Ruinblaster to be better plays than BBE. The added incentive of fearlessly playing X spells just solidifies it for me.

I know some people don't mind running a few X spells with Bloodbraid. I for one hate seeing that X spell I've been waiting for shuffled to the bottom of my library by a bloodbraid played a few turns earlier. Also cascading into map expedition is worse than turning up a valakut (or mountain with valakut active, or any land with Seer's Sundial) with Oracle. Playing Explore over KHE ensures BBE has less bad cascades, but there's still the Goblin Ruinblaster situation.

I'm also testing a black splash for Lavalanche, and SBed Grim Discovery. Lavalanche seams really good against Naya, Boros, and Jund. So far I have only tested it against Jund and it was kinda amazing. Black splash is facilitated by running 1 swamp which is my 26th land.

I'm not sure if I'm going to go back to the KHE any time soon. But I do think if you're going to run KHE then you have to run 4. For awhile I was running a 4/3 split of KHE/RG but I would never do the other way around. The reason is that double KHE wins games fast, and with double valakut that's 24 damage only needing 4 mountains out first. Explore will never do this good, but it will never do as bad as KHE either and can easily be run as 3 with 26 lands. It will be bad in a situation where you get stuck on two lands and don't draw a land, but you're that much closer to you're next one. Besides hopefully you will have a rampant growth in hand.

Enough Rambling

Quote from Dekz

Huh? What does Fulminator Mage have to do with Rampant Growth?

Sorry it was late when I wrote this and some how read your RG and RB and was thinking Ruinblaster


Perhaps you are mistaken on how Oracle works. It only let's you play ONE additional land per turn. Which is exactly how long I see it surviving. This is based on how long my SGC tends to survive.

How many extra lands does explore let you play? One, and they both let you play the top card of you're library if its a land. So even though explore can be played turn two, it can also shoot a blank turn 2 and I'd rather have the power of Oracle for an extra 2 mana.

You misunderstood me. You said that turn 2 is too busy with things like Expedition Maps instead of being able to play Rampant Growth. You don't need to crack your map ASAP, Valakut is not useful until you have 4+ mountains. If you are cracking your map on turn 2 instead of playing Rampant Growth, then you are playing incorrectly.

If you don't have a Growth or KHE in hand then you would crack the map. I'm just saying there is a lot to do early, and I don't think adding more in the form of the subpar explore is the way to go.

I can keep repeating myself, but I think I'll just stop trying to convince people of things. You really just have to see or not see for yourself.