I updated your list on the spreadsheet, bfine70! If anyone else wants to be added to the spreadsheet, post a link or post your list.
CoA Dreamcrusher Deck List Comparison Spreadsheet
Even with the snow lands coming in Kaldheim, I'm not convinced Skred is worth running. What would you replace? What role would in play in your deck?
Skred is instant speed direct damage for creatures only. The amount of damage is tied to the number of snow permanents you control. Even if you aggressively tutor for snow lands in the first 3-4 turns, Skred is a Lightning Bolt with less flexibility (since it doesn't hit players). Even with snow basics in the mix, Skred is only an efficient direct damage spell for a single creature later in the game. By then, you should have access to better removal (exile/bounce) or be looping CoA.
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Jan 16, 2021VivienneHell posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)Posted in: Variant Commander
Jan 14, 2021VivienneHell posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)Fireball vs. Rolling ThunderPosted in: Variant Commander
In many lists, I see Rolling Thunder instead of Fireball. What am I missing? Here's my thought process for why I run Fireball in this slot. I'm interested in reading your thoughts for running Rolling Thunder instead!
In this deck, there are four main uses for Fireball/Rolling Thunder:
1) Combo Finisher
2) Trigger CoA / Destroy a Single Target
3) Destroy Two Targets
4) Destroy More Than Two Targets
Once we have arbitrarily large amounts of mana, Fireball and Rolling Thunder are functionally equivalent. Either spell can be used to destroy any number of targets and/or remove any number of players from the game.
Trigger CoA / Destroy a Single Target
Fireball is more efficient than Rolling Thunder at dealing damage to a single target. It also does not require a second Red mana, which is important earlier in the game.
Destroy Two Targets
Sometimes we are in a position to either destroy two creatures or even take out two players at the same time if life totals are low enough and we've ramped enough. Fireball and Rolling Thunder are functionally similar in these situations, though not equivalent. Fireball requires one less Red mana symbol to cast. Rolling Thunder allows us to split the damage any way we want, however.
Destroy More Than Two Targets
This is where Rolling Thunder becomes more efficient and flexible than Fireball. It allows us to split damage any number of ways and in any amounts. Rolling Thunder costs less mana overall to cast than Fireball in this scenario.
Although there are scenarios where Rolling Thunder is better, Fireball is the better spell in more situations. Fireball is easier to cast in the early game, requiring only one Red mana. The superior flexibility of Rolling Thunder is often unnecessary and only slightly better than Fireball in most scenarios.
95%+ of the time, I use Fireball as a single target removal spell, either to kill a creature, kill a player, or trigger CoA. In every one of those situations, I'd rather have Fireball than Rolling Thunder. The other 5% of the time that I am splitting up damage to kill two creatures, Fireball is less Red-intensive to cast than Rolling Thunder and it matters. The scenarios where I split up damage to more than two targets are vanishingly small, and even then Fireball usually produces similar results.
I'm sure I'm missing something obvious! What are your thoughts on running Rolling Thunder instead of Fireball?
Jan 11, 2021VivienneHell posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)Many of you will already know what I'm talking about if you've been looking at the Kaldheim spoilers.Posted in: Variant Commander
We get access to a bunch of sweet ramp cards that can also be used for color-fixing with the Kaldheim snow duals. The snow duals fundamentally change how I will build the manabase and ramp package. Cards for consideration, in addition to the cards mentioned in the previous post:
Prices are spiking on some (most) of the cards that can search up the snow duals. Three Visits is crazy expensive in the P3K version anyway. It was reprinted at least, but at uncommon. I always run the version of the card printed at common in this deck, so yikes.
Jan 9, 2021I'm back.Posted in: Variant Commander
It's been about three years since I played this deck, but I always look at new commons that get spoiled thinking about how they would fit. It's time to dust off the deck and update it!
Side-by-Side Deck Comparison
I copied and formatted the deck lists posted in 2020. I found urdjur's and bfine70's lists. Check it out, here:
CoA Dreamcrusher Comparison
If anyone has an updated list (or wants a list added), post it and I'll add it to the spreadsheet.
Check out the "Current" tab where I included my list from 2017 (which is my current list) for comparison. My list is from before the rule change about commander death triggers. A lot of sets were released since then. I left the old lists in the "Archive" tab.
Recursion is down. Card draw is up. Countermagic is up.
This makes sense. There is less focus on getting the commander-recursion engine going with the new death trigger ruling. We have a couple new (and slightly more efficient) options for removal/sacrifice/utility and some new color-fixing lands (Thriving X).
Sep 18, 2018Posted in: Variant CommanderQuote from Fr0sty711 »[deck]
Have a few questions. What combos am I looking at in the "combo finisher section".. Ive never really comboed out and don't necessarily want to but curious what my build has that im not seeing.
Also wanted a clarification on 2 cards.
Sidisi's Faithful I am allowed to sacrifice child of alara and blow up the board then target sidi's and put him back into my hand correct? That is the correct play with that card right?
also Wretched Gryff I sacrifice COA and only have to pay 1 blue mana because of Emerge right ? then COA blows up the board but Gryff stays on the battlefield right? Or does he die as well?
Is secrets of the golden city a must add?
thanks for the help with my deck.
I've played dozens of games with this deck and /never/ pulled off the combo. I've tried both combo versions. I've even played with the specific goal to combo off instead of the more usual route. Still never happened. YMMV, but with every new common they print I can feel myself wanting to remove the combo and just jam more utility.
Yes, that's how Sidisi's Faithful works. He ends up back in your hand with Child in the graveyard and the board all blown to smithereens.
Yes, that's how Wretched Gryff works. You sacrifice Child to pay the casting cost of the Gryff, so the "blow up everything" trigger is on the stack and resolves before the Gryff is even on the battlefield.
I'm not sold on Secrets of the Golden City. Lord knows I love to draw cards, but something deep down inside me avoids spells with two mana symbols of the same color if at all possible. (Apparently, I'm the only person running Psychic Strike?!) Hell, I lost a game just the night with this deck because I didn't have the second blue mana I needed when I needed it. Those losses stick with me. Plus, there's this new common in Guilds of Ravnica that looks cool.
Rain of Notions
Surveil 2, you draw 2 cards. Rain of Notions deals 2 damage to you.
I'd run this over Secrets of the Golden City. I haven't thought about what I would cut. Probably Cloud of Faeries. =P
Jul 17, 2018Thank you for the update, urdjur. I can't believe that we are still talking about this deck years later! This is still my favorite deck for Commander multiplayer and 1-vs-1.Posted in: Variant Commander
The way I evaluate cards for this deck is driven by my assumption that this is a control deck that is trying to survive into the long-game where it wins with overwhelming card advantage.
The win-con is almost always one of the following:
1) Multiple Opponents: Looping CoA until they give up (because it is clear that I will eventually win anyway).
2) One Opponent: Casting Capsize with buyback twice each turn until they give up (because it is clear that I will eventually win anyway).
There are corner cases that will also result in a win, like quick CoA beats and assembling the combo kill. But, I usually win one of the first two ways. Once the game is on lock, you can win with Sakura-Tribe Elder beats for all that it matters. Your mileage may vary.
When I shuffle up with CoA, it is my game to lose. In other words, my deck already contains everything it needs to win. If I lose, it's because I didn't evaluate the threats properly. This is in contrast to some of my other decks where when I shuffle up it is my game to win, where even if I do everything exactly right I sometimes still lose. CoA is not that kind of deck. When I lose, 90%+ of the time it is because I screwed up, 5% is mana screw, and the other 5% is that the other decks are way, way too crazy and nothing I could do would matter anyway. (I lose more than 10% of the time, but WHEN I lose, it's usually my fault. I missed an important play. I tutored for the wrong card. I countered the wrong spell. I killed CoA too early. That kind of thing. Does this make sense?)
So, I evaluate cards like this:
1) Does this card help me set up one of my two primary "win conditions"?
2) Does this card stop the other player from stopping me set up one of my two primary win conditions?
3) Does this card stop the other player from doing something that makes them win faster than I can set up one of my two primary win conditions?
4) Does this card make my deck "smaller"?
5) Is this the card with the most efficient cost for the effect?
And, well, that's about it. The deck is just a good mix of cards that satisfy those criteria and then lands to cast all those cards.
With the primer updated, are we to a point where we want to start having single card / strategy discussions?
I'll give you an example.
I've lost more games to Emeria, the Sky Ruin than I can count. Once that gets online and starts looping Sun Titan, I have a difficult time getting control back. So, my deck needs at least one way to destroy a land. That effect has to be in the 99 somewhere or I am tacitly accepting that I will lose in those situations. What are my options?
Scour From Existence
Reap and Sow
Scour From Existence hits everything, but it's a lot of mana. Wrecking Ball has good utility and can trigger CoA. Reap and Sow has good utility and optional card advantage. You can make arguments for which one is best depending on your other mix of cards, but my point is that unless you have at least one of these cards you will not have a way to interact with troublesome lands.
Think of the last time you did everything right and still lost. What got you? Was it an indestructible God? Was it an overwhelming Genesis Wave? Was it graveyard-based? How did they beat you? Did you have an answer for it in your deck and just couldn't get there? Or did you have no option to win at all?
Dec 31, 2017I added my deck to the new spreadsheet. I play this deck online, but finally got around to building it in paper. I can't find some of the cards in my collection, like Angelic Purge, that should be in here. I'll keep looking. At some point, it's less expensive to just buy the missing cards rather than spend more time trying to find them.Posted in: Variant Commander
My deck has a little bit of spice that I didn't see in the other lists.
Nov 17, 2017Posted in: Variant CommanderQuote from "Fr0sty711 »I cleaned up and organized the spreadsgeet.
Well done! I like this layout. By the power vested in me, I officially make you the new keeper of the spreadsheet. Keep up the good work.
Maybe now I can post my list and you can add it, too.
Nov 16, 2017Thank you for the updated deck list, urdjur. I added it to the spreadsheet (and hid your old deck list).Posted in: Variant Commander
I also reformatted the lists slightly. There seems to be consensus around some cards, although urdjur, LouCypher, and alexandre have cards that differ from d0su's list in many areas. This could be because d0su's list is outdated, or it could be preference.
For example, Crop Rotation shows up in all of the lists except d0su's. Crop Rotation not only color-fixes, but also allows for techy plays with utility lands. It is almost certainly good in this deck. The decks are split on Wayfarer's Bauble, which is a card I like here for being colorless ramp, color-fixing, and also a reasonable first-turn play in a deck that doesn't have many.
Deep Analysis is another card that shows up in all three lists, but does not show up in d0su's list. Similarly, Dimir House Guard. And again, with Angelic Purge and Ash Barrens. I have to believe that in at least some of these cases, it is simply because d0su's list is out of date.
Oct 29, 2017Posted in: Variant CommanderQuote from alexandre »The list in my sig is frequently updated, my last one was about 1 month ago.
Gotcha. I added your list to the comparison spreadsheet, Alexandre.
Pauper Dreamcrusher Comparison
Not surprisingly, there seems to be some consensus around certain cards and a rough count of how many cards to put in each category. There are only so many commons, and we are all strategically trying to do the same thing with them.
Generally, the faster you can set up Child+Sacrifice+Recursion, the easier it is to control the game and win. The card advantage you gain from blowing up the world the first time is usually enough to create a winning position eventually. But, getting to a position where it is clear that you can blow up the world any time you want to, as many times as you want to, is usually enough to win on the spot (through everyone else conceding). For that reason, I favor a list that has the lowest casting cost cards in each category, and as many of the tutors, card drawing, and card quality spells as we can run.
Oct 22, 2017Good call. I added your deck, LouCypher. I still need to clean up the formatting, but it should all be there. Of course, many of these cards can fit into more than one category, but I put them where I thought they had the most functional uses for comparison purposes. You have a bit more ramp/fixing, similar card draw and countermagic, less tutors, and a lot more recursion.Posted in: Variant Commander
I'll add Alexandre's deck if s/he posts a new list. The one in the forum is from a while ago and we've gotten quite a few new cards to consider since then.
Oct 21, 2017Posted in: Variant CommanderQuote from Fr0sty711 »Our group is doing its first official commander battle this month...
Sounds fun! Let us know how it goes.
Hey, it's over a year old, but I put together a couple of decklists from this thread into a comparison list. Maybe that will give you an idea of what other spells to include. There's quite a bit of flexibility with these 5-color dreamcrusher lists. And the good new is, with a few exceptions, the cards are all inexpensive.
Pauper Dreamcrusher Comparison
If you have a reasonable guess about what the rest of your group is going to bring to the table, you can plan ahead and include different effects. For example, if you think you are going to run into Theros Gods, you might want some exile effects. That sort of thing. Good luck!
One final note, if your spells are going to be all commons, you should stick to all common lands, too. It makes the wins so much sweeter, especially if you are playing against powered decks. Plus, I've tried most (all?) of the configurations posted on here using MTGO and rarely, if ever, lost because I didn't get the right color of mana when I needed it.
Jan 4, 2017Compare Renegade Map to Traveler's Amulet. Would you run both? Are you running Traveler's Amulet in your current build?Posted in: Variant Commander
Aug 29, 2016I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for keeping this list up to date. It's a huge help when I'm looking for cards!Posted in: Commander (EDH)
BTW, the main post shows that the list was updated last year (2015), but your most recent post shows the update actually happened this year (2016).
Aug 27, 2016What are you guys pulling to run Wretched Gryff?Posted in: Variant Commander
Sidisi's Faithful is good enough on its own to justify running Vedalken Aethermage to give us another way to get it. Is Wretched Gryff good enough on its own to replace the wizardcycler?
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