MTG Salvation

Nice list, but I am curious whats the reasoning for echoing truth mainboard?

I have to agree with your opinion on SV. I think like i said earlier that SV is just a different card then opt or peek. Its just simply a different card almost incomparable.. almost.

But I to have felt the disappointment of SV often, too often.

But it is the deepest digger that we have available at that mana price. Which is in part most likely the reason its played. I wish ponder was unbanned bc I would replace SV with it in the blink of an eye.

But the reason I like SV/opt or peek/SV is because of its ability to dig so much deeper than both cards.

I have thought for some time now howver that perhaps I dont know how to play SV effectively and should probably watch some pro matches and study proper timing bc that i feel is where I make the error the most

I see your point but let me clarify.

I gave out an arbitrary number as a percentage. If you scry top %40, %30 or even %20 of the time than the fact remains that peek will give you at least that bc it always draws from the top. So if you scry to top %40 of the time, then %40 of the times youve cast opt, peek would have been strictly better bc it also draws from the top while giving you more information. That is all I am saying.

Furthermore, I firmly believe for tempo style decks like mine (especially queller builds), using your spells as efficiently as possible is extremely important and this is achieved with information.

It has been the case in my experience knowing that my opponent had nothing in hand I needed to worry about so i could save the bolt for another target apart from the bird, it has also been the case where I was going to logic knot a chandra had I not played peek first to see a back breaking blood moon I needed to logic knot instead. It helps with many other decisions as well such as if you need to hold onto your spell queller and use a logic knot instead or if spell queller is in the clear and can go all in. In my case peek has helped turn the corner and go in extremely aggressive as well as play very conservatively and defensively. Nothing feels as good as seeing a hand with no removal and happily spell quelling a liliana of the veil and proceed to fly in 2-3 turns.


But you are completely right. It all depends on style of deck, play, thought processes etc. None of these will ever be strictly better than the other at all times.

I feel it does directly impact the game state in that it can save you spells youd otherwise waste such as bolting a bird or saving a counter spell for a blood moon instead of a creature.

Opt is great dont get me wrong but peek is better if you are doing the opt/SV split.

This is my line of reasoning, lets say with opt you scry top 50% of the time and scry bottom 50% of the time.

If you scry top 50% of the time then %50 percent of the time it is a strictly worse peek bc you are essentially only drawing the top card therefore a peek would provid you with 100% of what opt did in this instance.

Lets say you scry bottom, you still end up drawing a blind card however now youre two cards deeper in your deck or two cards closer to the card youre looking for, given you didnt draw it. In this respect peek is still 50% of opt because it only drew one card therefore putting you 1 card deeper in the deck or one card closer to the card youre searching for. But how important is this in a format of fetches and path to exiles well that would depend on information you have which leads to my next point. The fact stands that peek will always at minimum give you 50% of what opt would and at best give you 100% of what opt would and in addition to the "peek" aspect.

Opt does not provide any information that would increase the success of your next few lines of play. Given that peek will always provide at least 50% of what opt does it still has a whole other facet to it that opt doesnt and that is information. Peek gives you very very valuable information especially for a tempo or control deck. Information that will certainly help your next 2-3 lines of play.

Serum visions is in a league of its own and in my opinion a completely different card than both of these. though it must be said it too provides you good information given that you scry'd to the top. If you scry'd both bot all it did was get you 3 cards closer to your desired card which is 150% of what opt can do in this respect. If you scry'd top like i said your next couple lines of play can be more thought out and coupled with peek a SV is a serious amount of information, now you know your next 2 draws and your opponents hand. This is a very potent combination.

I am glad you decided to give it a try again because I really feel Peek/SV package is more potent than opt/SV. and i can imagine a peek/opt/sv package to be pretty good as well. .

one instance where i feel peek shines is in deciding the best moment to cast Geist in this scenario peek is very very good.

not to mention the synergy peek has with snappy and clique in particular.

Mantis rider is great too. Have you seen that guy on youtube playing the jeskai angel (forgot her name i think lightning angel?) the 4 mana one? He plays 4 of her along side geist

It would be nice to take a card but it being instant and still providing the draw is quite good. And as we know blue excels when it has information especially if youre looking to play a win condition.

Hello all, Ive been on mtgsalvation for some time. but frequent he jeskai control deck most. I however, havent had much to do there bc no one plays geist anymore and in my opinion jeskai control is the most volatile deck ive ever seen in that it changes radically to suit the meta and new cards coming out. Last year geist was a thing, now its not.
Ive posted here before but it was a deck that was simply not very good and a weak jeskai version of humans before humans was a thing.

Ive been looking for loyal geist players but forgot to return here and check it out more and im glad i finally did. I play and enjoy the geist tempo build with spell queller and play this list below.




The flex spot is mainly the thundermaw hellkite, its good to close out games but its very mana intensive and takes alot of thought to set up.
I used to and still on occasion play a third geist of saint traft and 2 steel of the god head bc the combo is for the most part unbeatable and flashing queller on opponents turn and slapping the steel on it your turn is very viable.

Now as for peek i think its criminally under valued and under played. its a very very good card. I experimented alot with opt and serum visions and a combination of the two and i truly feel 2/2 split of serum visions and peek is optimal at least for my style of deck and play. i hope others here give it a shot since the people here seem to be more like me in that unconventional cards are exciting, and looked at rather than ignored and dismissed as it seems to be the case in other threads.

Anyways, any opinion or feedback is great! and I am glad I have found this thread again and theres still people out here loyal to jeskai and the saint

EDIT: Peek is extremely useful when playing the value creatures like mentor, king, young pyro, and your big boys like sphinx and hellkite as it allows you to see if the coast is clear in your opponents hand and on your opponents turn. Good play is peek and clique at end step if you were holding up mana for cryptic that didnt need to be fired off.

Thats very interesting i didnt think that was the case

Hey guys check out Shota Takao’s 8-0 list at GP Hong Kong

Planeswalker (2)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Creature (17)
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Spell Queller
1 Restoration Angel
Instant (18)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Opt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
Land (23)
4 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Dispel
1 Wear // Tear
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Anger of the Gods


And Karl Oscars list from stocklholm

Planeswalker (2)
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Creature (12)
1 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Vendilion Clique
Instant (22)
3 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Mana Leak
4 Opt
3 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Spell Snare
Land (24)
1 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Negate
1 Rest in Peace
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear

Super interesting choices here

Murderous cut saw play as a 1 of in deaths shadow, jund, and abzan when it was released. As did heroes downfall for a short time.

Also playable in modern means powerful. (Playable as in can compete not “oh thats cute”)

As for the 50 most played cards thats sideboard included. Do you really want ceremonious rejection to be the recent premium counter spell in recent memory? Is that comparable to anything else? Sadly it is not.

The point is the best counterspell wotc has given us in recent sets is strictly only sideboard playable. Yet the best removal has been jammed by the playset.

Please unban twin it would only justify my torpor orb even more and in fact make it an even more powerful sideboard tool that can be used for a deck other then humans.

I named about 6 removal spells and you picked terminate and dreadbore.. which were both in the top deck a few weeks ago (mardu) and still at time played in jund.

Fatal push is all over the place main board. Almost all of the counterspells you listed are sideboard or unplayable. Btw heroes downfall was played for quite some time after it was printed in theros by BGx decks. how are you gonna name silimgars scorn of all cards? That has quite literally never seen the light of day in modern.

Lets not even mention the other trash tier spells youre naming. In the last 5 years name a counterspell that has seen as much main deck play as fatal push, how about abrupt decay? How about terminate and dreadbore? The closest youll get to is stubborn denial and thats in one deck only.

You cant name any. None exist. No playable counterspells have been printed in forever. They simply print cancel variants which is exactly what neglect is. They choose the lazy, non creative, unplayable design and keep picking it over and over and over again. Where as removal gets creative designs that are both powerful and playable in modern. Murderous cut was immediately played in modern, as was dreadbore, fatal push, abrupt decay, and now assassins trophy is almost at 40$.

Playable sweepers since verdict? Anger of the Gods was picked up immediately in modern, settle the wreckage saw play instantly in jeskai control, bontus has not seen any play from what ive seen. There is another one im missing.

But that proves my point further even sweepers have seen a great deal of play.

So no its not across the board.

Manlands have been weak Ill give you that and I was going to compare the neglect of good counterspells to the neglect of designing manlands.

But even still theres a great deal of manlands all over modern not just colonnade there blinkmoth in affinity variants and infect, mutavault in eldrazi aggro and merfolk, raging ravine in jund, tree top village in mono green stompy, abzan and jund.
And thats not even the only lands to look at we then have other utility lands like field of ruin and the other gy hate one played in amulet titan.

Even lands are getting more main deck playable designs than counterspells.
So I think youre wrong and my evidence here proves it quite well. That modern playable, powerful, main deckable counterspells have been neglected for some time.

Quote from GotSK »

Quote from Wraithpk »

I think what Cfusionpm's complaint really comes down to is that WotC isn't playing in the space that might produce Modern playable counterspells. They're being too conservative with that particular kind of interaction. I don't think they're willing to print a 3 cmc counterspell with enough upside to make it Modern playable. A 3 cmc counter would need to have significant upside to see play. The window of Modern playability is in 2 cmc counters with downside, or 1 cmc counters that are narrow, and they rarely tread in this territory. Ceremonious Rejection was a great printing. It did practically nothing in Standard, and it's nothing more than a sideboard card, although a nice one, in Modern. Other than that, when was the last time they designed a Modern playable counterspell? Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial back in Khan's block, like 4 years ago? And thank God we got those two, because before that it was Spell Pierce and Countersquall, back in 2009!!

They've designed THREE Modern playable counter spells in almost 10 years. That's just being lazy and not exploring that design space enough. Here's an idea: UW: Counter target noncreature spell, you gain 2 life. There, in 5 seconds I thought up a Negate variant that would probably be playable in Modern and is absolutely fine from a power level standpoint. Why can't they play with different effects and casting costs like this instead of printing Negate in every set? That is the argument here about counterspells. It's not that people want something crazy busted, we just want something playable, and it's so rare for WotC to get adventurous enough to design something like that.

You are not wrong about what you say, but this is an issue not confined to counterspells. Despite Fatal Push, how much good single target removal that actually stuck in modern has been printed? Bolt, path, helix, these are still by far the old as time format staples. Abrupt Decay? 2012 and barely a two-of in the few decks that play it maindeck. The removal department does not even get boring reprints, standard mostly keeps pumping out simply worse versions of the existing. Anti lifegain? Manlands? Green walkers or dimir cards that are not straight up garbage? I bet there are endless categories that have had unused design space in the last years.
Does that mean we do not have enough removal or manlands? Of course not. As I said, Bolt Snap Bolt is a tough cookie and printing stuff thats better or the same with a different name would result in a significant power shift. Same for Negate. It might not be as flashy as some new UR hotness, but it is a solid and playable card that gets the job done. Despite getting almost nothing new in the counter department, UW control has ascended to T1.

So if the argument is (as you claim) not about power, not about some tool-gap that has to be filled, not about some treatment unique to countermagic, what is it really about? Nothing but artistic expression or lack thereof on the side of wizards? Given the vitriol and conspiracy theories brought up in support of this argument, I do not buy that for a second.

No attack on you personally, maybe you really just want to critizise the lazyness of wizard's design department (which I would fully agree with), but there is more to this side of the debate overall.

Youcant compare the lack of counterspells to the lack of removal. There has been alot of removal printed in abrupt decay, terminate, dread bore, fatal push, now assassins trophy, heroes downfall, murderous cut

The amount of playable removal that has been printed completely blows the amount of playable counterspells out of the water. Completely incomparable.

The point is neglect isnt seen anywhere else except in the design of counterspells.

I have a feeling we will see a very powerful 2CMC UW spell in the next set whether it be a counterspell or not I think it will be a powerful instant. Reasons being goglari is azorius enemy and I wouldnt put it passed R&D to print something that can be cast with teferis untap ability thinking it will be an okay idea resulting in a busted interaction/combo with the two in standard.