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  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Thats very interesting i didnt think that was the case
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Hey guys check out Shota Takao’s 8-0 list at GP Hong Kong

    Planeswalker (2)
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    Creature (17)
    3 Figure of Destiny
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Geist of Saint Traft
    4 Spell Queller
    1 Restoration Angel
    Instant (18)
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Opt
    4 Path to Exile
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Lightning Helix
    2 Mana Leak
    Land (23)
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Celestial Colonnade
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    2 Inspiring Vantage
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    2 Sacred Foundry
    2 Scalding Tarn
    3 Spirebluff Canal
    1 Steam Vents
    60 Cards
    Sideboard (15)
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Stormbreath Dragon
    2 Dispel
    1 Wear // Tear
    1 Celestial Purge
    1 Disdainful Stroke
    2 Negate
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Stony Silence
    1 Anger of the Gods


    And Karl Oscars list from stocklholm

    Planeswalker (2)
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
    Creature (12)
    1 Geist of Saint Traft
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Spell Queller
    3 Vendilion Clique
    Instant (22)
    3 Cryptic Command
    1 Electrolyze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Lightning Helix
    1 Mana Leak
    4 Opt
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Remand
    1 Spell Snare
    Land (24)
    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Celestial Colonnade
    2 Field of Ruin
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Steam Vents
    1 Sulfur Falls
    60 Cards
    Sideboard (15)
    2 Geist of Saint Traft
    1 Baneslayer Angel
    1 Disdainful Stroke
    2 Dispel
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Lyra Dawnbringer
    1 Negate
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Settle the Wreckage
    2 Stony Silence
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Wear // Tear

    Super interesting choices here


    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    Murderous cut saw play as a 1 of in deaths shadow, jund, and abzan when it was released. As did heroes downfall for a short time.

    Also playable in modern means powerful. (Playable as in can compete not “oh thats cute”)

    As for the 50 most played cards thats sideboard included. Do you really want ceremonious rejection to be the recent premium counter spell in recent memory? Is that comparable to anything else? Sadly it is not.

    The point is the best counterspell wotc has given us in recent sets is strictly only sideboard playable. Yet the best removal has been jammed by the playset.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    Please unban twin it would only justify my torpor orb even more and in fact make it an even more powerful sideboard tool that can be used for a deck other then humans.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    I named about 6 removal spells and you picked terminate and dreadbore.. which were both in the top deck a few weeks ago (mardu) and still at time played in jund.

    Fatal push is all over the place main board. Almost all of the counterspells you listed are sideboard or unplayable. Btw heroes downfall was played for quite some time after it was printed in theros by BGx decks. how are you gonna name silimgars scorn of all cards? That has quite literally never seen the light of day in modern.

    Lets not even mention the other trash tier spells youre naming. In the last 5 years name a counterspell that has seen as much main deck play as fatal push, how about abrupt decay? How about terminate and dreadbore? The closest youll get to is stubborn denial and thats in one deck only.

    You cant name any. None exist. No playable counterspells have been printed in forever. They simply print cancel variants which is exactly what neglect is. They choose the lazy, non creative, unplayable design and keep picking it over and over and over again. Where as removal gets creative designs that are both powerful and playable in modern. Murderous cut was immediately played in modern, as was dreadbore, fatal push, abrupt decay, and now assassins trophy is almost at 40$.

    Playable sweepers since verdict? Anger of the Gods was picked up immediately in modern, settle the wreckage saw play instantly in jeskai control, bontus has not seen any play from what ive seen. There is another one im missing.

    But that proves my point further even sweepers have seen a great deal of play.

    So no its not across the board.

    Manlands have been weak Ill give you that and I was going to compare the neglect of good counterspells to the neglect of designing manlands.

    But even still theres a great deal of manlands all over modern not just colonnade there blinkmoth in affinity variants and infect, mutavault in eldrazi aggro and merfolk, raging ravine in jund, tree top village in mono green stompy, abzan and jund.
    And thats not even the only lands to look at we then have other utility lands like field of ruin and the other gy hate one played in amulet titan.

    Even lands are getting more main deck playable designs than counterspells.
    So I think youre wrong and my evidence here proves it quite well. That modern playable, powerful, main deckable counterspells have been neglected for some time.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    Quote from GotSK »
    Quote from Wraithpk »
    I think what Cfusionpm's complaint really comes down to is that WotC isn't playing in the space that might produce Modern playable counterspells. They're being too conservative with that particular kind of interaction. I don't think they're willing to print a 3 cmc counterspell with enough upside to make it Modern playable. A 3 cmc counter would need to have significant upside to see play. The window of Modern playability is in 2 cmc counters with downside, or 1 cmc counters that are narrow, and they rarely tread in this territory. Ceremonious Rejection was a great printing. It did practically nothing in Standard, and it's nothing more than a sideboard card, although a nice one, in Modern. Other than that, when was the last time they designed a Modern playable counterspell? Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial back in Khan's block, like 4 years ago? And thank God we got those two, because before that it was Spell Pierce and Countersquall, back in 2009!!

    They've designed THREE Modern playable counter spells in almost 10 years. That's just being lazy and not exploring that design space enough. Here's an idea: UW: Counter target noncreature spell, you gain 2 life. There, in 5 seconds I thought up a Negate variant that would probably be playable in Modern and is absolutely fine from a power level standpoint. Why can't they play with different effects and casting costs like this instead of printing Negate in every set? That is the argument here about counterspells. It's not that people want something crazy busted, we just want something playable, and it's so rare for WotC to get adventurous enough to design something like that.


    You are not wrong about what you say, but this is an issue not confined to counterspells. Despite Fatal Push, how much good single target removal that actually stuck in modern has been printed? Bolt, path, helix, these are still by far the old as time format staples. Abrupt Decay? 2012 and barely a two-of in the few decks that play it maindeck. The removal department does not even get boring reprints, standard mostly keeps pumping out simply worse versions of the existing. Anti lifegain? Manlands? Green walkers or dimir cards that are not straight up garbage? I bet there are endless categories that have had unused design space in the last years.
    Does that mean we do not have enough removal or manlands? Of course not. As I said, Bolt Snap Bolt is a tough cookie and printing stuff thats better or the same with a different name would result in a significant power shift. Same for Negate. It might not be as flashy as some new UR hotness, but it is a solid and playable card that gets the job done. Despite getting almost nothing new in the counter department, UW control has ascended to T1.

    So if the argument is (as you claim) not about power, not about some tool-gap that has to be filled, not about some treatment unique to countermagic, what is it really about? Nothing but artistic expression or lack thereof on the side of wizards? Given the vitriol and conspiracy theories brought up in support of this argument, I do not buy that for a second.

    No attack on you personally, maybe you really just want to critizise the lazyness of wizard's design department (which I would fully agree with), but there is more to this side of the debate overall.


    Youcant compare the lack of counterspells to the lack of removal. There has been alot of removal printed in abrupt decay, terminate, dread bore, fatal push, now assassins trophy, heroes downfall, murderous cut

    The amount of playable removal that has been printed completely blows the amount of playable counterspells out of the water. Completely incomparable.

    The point is neglect isnt seen anywhere else except in the design of counterspells.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    I have a feeling we will see a very powerful 2CMC UW spell in the next set whether it be a counterspell or not I think it will be a powerful instant. Reasons being goglari is azorius enemy and I wouldnt put it passed R&D to print something that can be cast with teferis untap ability thinking it will be an okay idea resulting in a busted interaction/combo with the two in standard.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    Quote from Darkx87 »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from idSurge »
    What question or problem, is being answered by a 2 mana Counter? Not Vintage, not Pauper, not Legacy, and not Standard.

    That's because Vintage has Mana Drain, Pauper and Legacy both have Counterspell itself, Legacy also has Force of Will, Daze and Flusterstorm, and Standard is slow and clunky enough that 3cmc is fine.

    What they are saying by not printing "downside" 1-2cmc counters for Modern is simply: "We do not want counters to be good in Modern."


    I think the comment was more, the only format that will benefit from a 2CMC counter is Modern, because every other eternal format already has better options and Standard doesn't need a 2CMC counter. By introducing a 2CMC counter to Standard, so that it can flow in to Modern, would more than likely disrupt Standard significantly and result in a ban, further damaging the image of Standard. If they unban already existing counters so Modern can use them, how does that impact Modern?

    Modern already has a plethora of counters and ways to disrupt the stack. Many people dislike stack interaction. And, as we're now seeing, Ux has a very competitively viable build, so how much would adding another, even lower CMC, counter affect the power level of Ux builds?

    I think the logical conclusion has to be that 2CMC counter would provide too much power to the Ux decks and further elevate their Top8/16/32 showings. Which then cascades into "slower" magic, with resulting timed-out matches, and logistics issues because more people are playing Ux decks with the powerful 2CMC counters and other decks drop in meta share because they can't get anything successfully through the stack bottle neck.

    Obligatory - "OMG that's a way overblown fear..."


    How can a 2cmc counter cause logistical issues? Logic knot is currently played and physically takes longer to cast bc of counting the delve and has never caused any time issues.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Because WOTC's market research says that people prefer playing with creatures than spells. Interacting with the stack is the most niche appeal that some players have with the game. The majority of players would prefer permanents entering play, particularly creatures and planeswalkers. If anything, WOTC just needs to nuke counterspells once and for all and give blue more traditional removal.


    What are you talking about? The decks that would use assassins trophy like abzan, jund and BG rock are usually 60-70% made of non creature spells. If we look at all the top decks the only ones atm that follow what you said is humans. Burn, UW control, jund, abzan, jeskai, KCI are all majority spells.

    I dont think the market research youre talking about exists man.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    I dont play standard but the teferi argument seems kind of.. idk the right word.

    If they in fact printed a UR spell that would cause trouble for a teferi player wouldnt it? Isnt 3 colors pushing it in standard?

    Though I agree they wont do it as long as teferi is in standard though.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/08/2018)
    I have to disagree with you and agree with the comment youre arguing against. In recent memory the only izzet card to get any play is electrolyze. And its a maximum 2 of in any deck its played in.

    Modern is in need of a 2 mana counterspell and the ones fusionpm created are not bad at all.

    GB has everything it could possible want and every ravnica set golgari has been buffed tremendously.

    Izzet players are left with no real izzet spell to play with and it is very frustrating. Even the creatures and planeswalkers are rather usless.

    And as for you argument about equating a counterspell to removal, its not about just that but the colors and the decks which would use that removal spell. Do you think its fair for a 1 mana sorcery to be able to take anything except lands from a person hand? The decks that will run assassins trophy are equipped to do pretty broken things and Comparing a two mana counterspell to a two mana OP removal in a vacuum is still not an appropriate analysis of the situation.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    I mean thats not impossible now with wizards retort, gobi electro mancer, ionize, etc 2 mana counterspells are deff a thing now especially once you reach 5 mana with tefferi
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Imo disallow is better than ionize as it can cut off mana, stop O-stone, stop planewalker abilities, azcanta act, etc etc

    I think its a best 3 mana counter thus far.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    I dont think that will be the case. 2 mana is far better than 3 and two damage. Its not impossible but theres soo many 3 mana counters that are pretty good.

    I wish so badly they would stop this little game and just print counterspell. They are already running out of things to do with the 3 mana counterspells and are even printing them at 2 different per set. Wel have 3 in standard now if im not mistaken.

    On the conspiracy side of things i think that wotc including goblin electromancer and these counterspells is an experiment to see how counterspell would perform in standard to see if they can actually print it.

    Theres been news that counterspell was tested in dominaria but r&d decided it may be too strong at this time it was said on the masters of modern podcast.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Im thinking of doing the same in my jeskai geist build. Im making the switch from all serum visions to 3/1 opt/peek split after playing a serum visions and getting punished for it yesterday. I feel sorcery speed cantrips are simply not good anymore especially in jeskai geist builds.

    The peek should help alot with making correct plays like when to hold removal or turn on the aggro.
    Posted in: Control
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