You want CoCo over oath, but what you actually want is vial. If you do get vials I'd cut the birds since the vial works as acceleration. I'd also reccomend some number of smiters. I like them a lot more than finks. Being a 4/4 puts smiter so far ahead of most creatures in modern. Then with leige he gets insane. The can't be countered clause is great. The discard clause never gets used but it makes gbx decks really afraid if using lili which is a win.
I think we would be much better served running eidolon of rhetoric or spirit of the labrynth if AV ends up being a problem. So like eidopon a but better because its also hate against other decks. Our hate is meant to be very broad so that we can always have something relevant against each deck.
The discard ability on wilt leaf is just flavor text. Sometimes its nice but it almost never happens. We win by disrupting our opponent just long enough that they die to our beats before they can stabilize. Wilt leaf massively boosts our clock and for that she is an all-star.
Come to think of it I run 4 smiters and three wilt leaf lieges in a meta with two people frequently on eldrazi. Not once did I get to path, put a dude onto the field against reality smasher. ):
Really interested on your take. I've been trying to build this kind of deck yesterday and this morning. Care to share what you've come up to ?
23 lands looks fine. But yeah with 2 GDD and 2 Batterskull (and maybe Chandra), it's a lot of high costed spells.
My list right now (which I'm almost certainly going to be changing up with more testing:
4 ancestral
4 serum
4 bolt
3 blood moon
2 spreading seas
2 cryptic
1 electrolyze
3 remand
2 mana leak
1 spell snare (this is definitely going up to 2 in the 75)
2 harvest pyre
4 snapcaster mage
2 goblin dark dwellers
2 batterskull
1 chandra
23 lands
I'm splashing white right now for stoney silence. The thopter combo is really ******* annoying. I'm getting a sense that if your playing control and not playing the combo you're not going to be viable. I hope I'm wrong but I've been losing to dedicated thopter control decks even with stony silence, vandalblast, hurkyls recall, staticaster and anger of the gods coming out of the board.
The deck felt a little light in early action. The 8 visions package feels necessary but also really weak to just having a grip of visions and one answer in your opening hand. Pia and kiran played the double duty of action and answer at four mana and I think I might get rid of the GDD for them. Five mana 4/4 draw three is really good but it didn't happen as consistently as I would have wanted.
Eldrazi pushed Jund out, when Jund comes back to the format on Friday you're going to need those Wilt-Leaf Lieges back.
Do we really? Sure getting to drop it for free is nice, but I still generally dislike the way Wiltleaf plays out vs Jund. They often either blow out your team with timely removal on it, or you cant build up a significant enough board presence to make the lieges pumps all that significant anyway.
Really? What is your meta like that wipt leaf liege isn't an all star. I'm happy to see that card all day every day. I would run four if it wasn't a four drop. My meta has a decent amount of creature aggro so that certainly makes wilt leaf better. Wilt leaf and smiter are the best hate I have against those decks.
That's what I'm feeling. Getting batterskull kommanded really blows but the skull is so insanely good against aggro decks that I can't bear to cut it.
I've been testing 4 x visions and 2 x goblin dark dwellers in place of pia and kiran and its been okay. I had a few games where I lived the dream of turn one ancestral visions, turn five it cones if suspend and I recast it with GDD. Untapping with a full grip feels amazing, though it does present a one turn window for the opponent to resolve their threat which can suck so it probably more correct to hold the GDD a couple turns until you can drop them and leave counter magic up.
I do really miss the extra chump blocks pia and kiran gives us. I also had several games where I got mana screwed really badly so the one extra mana for GDD was a liability. I'm running 23 lands. Should I be going up to 24?
Yep that was probably me. I got lucky and saw my one of sideboard jace every game I brought him in which was certainly nice. I never used him to bounce PnK but that's a pretty good deal that I hadn't thought of.
I've been testing SOI jace out and hr is definitely better than AoT. I brought him in for long grinds and he is such a pain in the ass for them to kill due to his high toughness and all the cards he draws us into. I've drawn upwards of ten cards in games. Getting to his ult is really not that uncommon.
I've thought about running life from the loam as well. It seems like it would be pretty brutal against any deck that won't kill us quickly. I haven't tried it but if you do let us know how it goes.
I run two and cut a mindcensor and a Thalia for them.
Also what have you guys been thinking about oath of Nissa? I tried running four last night along with two kor skyfisher in place of the aether vials and I was really unimpressed. I was hoping they would pull ahead by being better top decks later in the game but they never seemed to make a difference. The deck needs to overwhelm your opponent with both disruptive bears and bad beats quickly and oath really didn't help with that.
Nah wilt leaf liege is the bomb with rancor. Swinging with a 9/7 trample smiter is not at all uncommon. I cut a Thalia down to 2 since rancor is there to deal with all the creature decks running around and she's not very useful there. I also cut an aven mindcensor since often he just ends up being an evasive beater which isn't as necessary when your smiter can just trample through their board.
Idk. I've never had her come up that big for me. Against kiki chord and abzan coco she is amazing but that's about it.
Been testing out Rancor in my deck and I highly recommend it. Pretty much every creature in the deck besides the dorks carry it well and it just comes back whenever they try and deal with your beater. It has helped so much in beating all the swarmy decks in my local store. I lost way too many games by having my gigantic smiter chumped for fifty turns in a row.
Come to think of it I run 4 smiters and three wilt leaf lieges in a meta with two people frequently on eldrazi. Not once did I get to path, put a dude onto the field against reality smasher. ):
My list right now (which I'm almost certainly going to be changing up with more testing:
4 ancestral
4 serum
4 bolt
3 blood moon
2 spreading seas
2 cryptic
1 electrolyze
3 remand
2 mana leak
1 spell snare (this is definitely going up to 2 in the 75)
2 harvest pyre
4 snapcaster mage
2 goblin dark dwellers
2 batterskull
1 chandra
23 lands
I'm splashing white right now for stoney silence. The thopter combo is really ******* annoying. I'm getting a sense that if your playing control and not playing the combo you're not going to be viable. I hope I'm wrong but I've been losing to dedicated thopter control decks even with stony silence, vandalblast, hurkyls recall, staticaster and anger of the gods coming out of the board.
The deck felt a little light in early action. The 8 visions package feels necessary but also really weak to just having a grip of visions and one answer in your opening hand. Pia and kiran played the double duty of action and answer at four mana and I think I might get rid of the GDD for them. Five mana 4/4 draw three is really good but it didn't happen as consistently as I would have wanted.
Really? What is your meta like that wipt leaf liege isn't an all star. I'm happy to see that card all day every day. I would run four if it wasn't a four drop. My meta has a decent amount of creature aggro so that certainly makes wilt leaf better. Wilt leaf and smiter are the best hate I have against those decks.
I've been testing 4 x visions and 2 x goblin dark dwellers in place of pia and kiran and its been okay. I had a few games where I lived the dream of turn one ancestral visions, turn five it cones if suspend and I recast it with GDD. Untapping with a full grip feels amazing, though it does present a one turn window for the opponent to resolve their threat which can suck so it probably more correct to hold the GDD a couple turns until you can drop them and leave counter magic up.
I do really miss the extra chump blocks pia and kiran gives us. I also had several games where I got mana screwed really badly so the one extra mana for GDD was a liability. I'm running 23 lands. Should I be going up to 24?
Also what have you guys been thinking about oath of Nissa? I tried running four last night along with two kor skyfisher in place of the aether vials and I was really unimpressed. I was hoping they would pull ahead by being better top decks later in the game but they never seemed to make a difference. The deck needs to overwhelm your opponent with both disruptive bears and bad beats quickly and oath really didn't help with that.
Been testing out Rancor in my deck and I highly recommend it. Pretty much every creature in the deck besides the dorks carry it well and it just comes back whenever they try and deal with your beater. It has helped so much in beating all the swarmy decks in my local store. I lost way too many games by having my gigantic smiter chumped for fifty turns in a row.