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  • posted a message on what to do witth UW? Ideas inside
    Glassdust Hulk would be a neat signpost card, but at that casting cost, the weakness to double type removal really hurts. Worth considering if you have a higher incidence of artifact token generators, I suppose.

    For what it's worth, I do agree with Humphrey that tagging cards is pretty important, though I wouldn't have put it quite so passive-aggressively as him. I love Sanctum Gargoyle, but it's not close to being a flying Gravedigger. There's not enough artifact creature density to make it so. It's more of a value card in an Artifactocrats archetype, where you're bringing back stuff like Spellbombs for value.

    Come to think of it, having more artifactocrats stuff at common would really help. I see it more as a red theme (see stuff like Atog, Artillerize, Destructive Digger). Carrion Feeder is such a simple, iconic design at this point. They can riff on it by using different card types in other colors, like:

    Scrap Feeder R
    Creature - Gremlin
    Scrap Feeder can't block.
    Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Scrap Feeder.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on what to do witth UW? Ideas inside
    If it's artifact aggro you want, I'm baffled as to why you'd want to limit it to UW. Sure you have Court Homunculus and Gearsmith Prodigy, but some of the greatest artifact aggro cards are in other colors. Reckless Fireweaver and Carapace Forger in particular come to mind as killer two-drops.

    Not only is there a lack of two-drops, which is critical for aggro, but you also need enough cheap artifacts AND they have to be relevant to aggro. Dropping Gearsmith followed by a signet would just be silly. You want to drop either a well-statted artifact creature or an equipment. The first doesnt really exist at common, and pauper cubers dont run nearly enough equipment, even though they should (Leonin Scimitar in multiples is great - imagine dropping Gearsmith, then Scimitar + equip next turn!).

    If it's artifact aggro you want, I think that archetype is better off sprinkled in every color, because the card type that matters (artifacts) is colorless and thus accessible to everyone. You also want players to be able to pivot into a backup color if blue or white ends up fizzling out on the artifact-matters cards (highly likely to me, considering the lack of decent support). If it's an update to the Azorius guild you want, I think UW is far too well off to consider artifact aggro as it looks right now.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on what to do witth UW? Ideas inside
    It's a nice idea, but two problems crop up for me.

    1. What's the payoff?
    You need a reward for going deep on artifacts. I only see (in these colors obv) Vedalken Certarch, Ardent Recruit and Rusted Relic/Myr Enforcer. You already noted Ethersworn Shieldmage which I like - it's a card I wish was just a little more pushed. If it had been a 2/2 for UW it could easily be a power common and a guild icon. Or it could have been a 2/3 for 1UW, slightly more realistic and more in the realm of playable. Even more interesting, give it affinity and something like a 3UW cost as a way to make you work for that UW flash bear.
    Interesting to note that a card like Esper Cormorants isn't much of a payoff (especially with Phantom Monster floating around) but the artifact tag actually makes it an enabler. So I think you have to consider what role your artifact-matters cards are gonna play in practice, and make sure you have enough payoff cards and make it rewarding enough to build around them.

    2. What does artifacts matter actually mean?
    Look at the cards I mentioned above. What decks do they actually fit in? Certarch is a control tool, Recruit is aggro, Rusted Relic/Enforcer are midrange beatsticks. They're all over the place. Once you have a bunch of artifacts, what are you actually doing with them? You want an engine. You want some glue to bring the deck together. The best you can do in these colors is something like Artificer's Epiphany, Sage of Lat-Nam or Gearseeker Serpent.

    I would look to Al's pauper artifact cube for ideas. He has a ton of incidental artifact generation in the form of clues, contraptions and fabricators, to guarantee a suitable number of artifacts for whatever shenanigans your deck wants to do (it doesn't look like it was updated after Ixalan or we would probably see Treasure tokens too). But when the whole cube is about artifacts, the need for payoffs doesn't really matter as much. Your default mode is "I'm an artifact deck". In a regular pauper cube, I might ask myself some questions. What distinguishes an artifact deck, specifically a UW one, from other decks? What does it do better? Questions like that.

    My own opinion is that it's not really there yet compared to the current skies or flash archetypes. But it would be great to visit an artifact-centric set with the New New World Order that's giving us such decent commons lately. Things might change after a set like that Grin
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Why Pauper/Peasant?
    Nice derailment, though.

    The level of delusion is absolutely shocking. Like, he hasn't changed a single thing in his thought process despite people patiently trying to discuss cubing rationale with someone who clearly hasn't been playing for long. Instead, he's doubled down on the victim attitude. He's hell-bent on taking the absolute worst things that happened to him in Magic, or that people have said to him, and pretending it's the default environment. Or using any opportunity to go on tirades with his hate-filled nonsense theory of Magic players. It would be sad to see if it weren't so darn insulting.

    At this point, I seriously fear that the poster has some sort of mental problem that extends beyond their hobby (Bogles "ruined" their previous hobby, they're "ruining" Magic now, Bogles will probably find ways to ruin their future hobby, and somehow this person is the only one with the "right" opinion about them). If you think everyone around you is the problem, maybe you're the problem. The forum does not have a responsibility to humor trolls like this, and constantly derailing threads with this nonsense is getting tiresome.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Conspiracy (card type) Discussion and Strategy
    I would feel terrible going into a pauper cube draft and having these rare conspiracies used against me. They don't feel like pauper at all.

    I take exception to Summoner's Bond being labeled "just" a value card. Free creature tutoring (as in, not even taking up space in your deck or mana to cast!) is not even close to common power level.

    And I really shouldn't need to explain how powerful the rare/mythic conspiracies are. Like, I'm wondering if anyone has bothered to ask themselves why Wizards would want to increase the rarity of Backup Plan and decrease the rarity of Brago's Favor.

    Finally, what you call middling, I call appropriate. Check these out:

    Brago's Favor naming Capsize or Sprout Swarm. Or Cage of Hands. Or any of those awesome common flashback spells.
    Immediate Action naming Sparksmith or Rhox Veteran. Or literally any fatty.
    Muzzio's Preparations naming Viashino Slaughtermaster or Ainok Bond-Kin.
    Secrets of Paradise naming Wall of Roots. Or literally any one-drop/two-drop that's not a mana dork.
    Sentinel Dispatch with exploit and the significant increase in sac outlets that have cropped up since its printing (Spark Reaper being the most recent).

    I feel like you haven't really considered all the unique synergies that come up when you have all the best pauper cards to play around with. Or maybe you have, and y'all are bored with pauper, in which case I humbly recommend trying out powered or peasant cubes instead of trying to force pauper cubes to be something they're not. Those other cubes are a blast too.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on UGly
    Quote from truth_bomb »

    disclaimer: this deck folds to Gurmag Angler.

    Can't you:
    A. bounce it with Snap
    B. race it with Blastoderm


    Feed the Clan looks bad. Sideboard card against burn imo.

    p.s. card tags are your friend.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Man, I was really worried that Al was kaput for good thanks to the Great MTGSal Deletion of 2019. Most of his stuff lines up with what I was gonna say. Just pretend I said it again so you know it's not a one-off Grin

    I just removed Leonin Skyhunter for the same reasons. IMO, this + Silverbeak Griffin should really only be run if you already run both Pegasi + Soltari Trooper and need more evasion. This would probably only be for larger cubes at this point. If we eventually get a common white devotion card on the same level as Gray Merchant of Asphodel, these guys could get a new lease on life. But I feel safe in saying that, for 360 to 450 at least, they're pretty much dead.

    RE: red pump - pretty much only if you want to deliberately kneecap red at this point. There's too much burn to really want to play a more restrictive removal that occasionally doubles as creature protection.

    Deprive I like as a landfall enabler and for larger cubes like mine, but even there blue spells are stacked. I'm ok with countermagic having a slight premium attached to it by having a bit less of it. (y'all might find this weird, but I find the trinket text on Rune Snag in a singleton format really cumbersome, and if I had to add another countermagic slot, Quench would be in serious contention against Deprive).

    Also fun to see someone else try to be slightly more statistical about their inclusions. I've done the exact same notation for how many cubes run which cards, yet somehow I'm still over the limit because cuts are hard lol.

    As for other cuts:
    Paralyze! Soft removal in a color full of hard removal.

    Everything else in that list of potential cuts I like too much to recommend cuts. You can take a look at my list in my sig and see which ones I don't run if that helps your decision-making Grin

    Anyway, this will be my last post for the foreseeable future. I'll be going on hiatus from the forums for many reasons, mainly for my mental health, diminishing returns from discussion here, and now the Great Deletion of 2019 that just invalidated years (decades?) of work.

    Cheers, and happy cubing!
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Hussar is more a case of Azorius not being particularly great. If you really want to be critical, some cubers might point out that Azorius still has this issue all the way up to regular powered cubes (Oblivion Ring / Detention Sphere, Wrath of God / Supreme Verdict). To me, it's more a case of wanting extras of that effect. The body is good at holding off attackers and the ETB puts you ahead on card selection. But its stock would probably go down dramatically if we got a second Oracle (Dimir Informant didn't cut it, sadly).

    RE: Augur of Bolas - as the joke goes, this card's text really says: When Augur of Bolas enters the battlefield, look at the bottom three cards of your library. Then again, I consider Delver a bit of a miss for most cubes, but if cubers really want to contort their blue sections into something that can accommodate more of a spells-matters theme, I suppose it's possible to make it work.

    Quote from Waymarsh »
    I'm also looking at supporting a Sacrifice subtheme a bit more.

    I know some cubers have enjoyed success with the sac bears, stuff like Sultai Emissary, Doomed Dissenter, Butcher Ghoul, maybe more niche stuff like Abyssal Gatekeeper. You can overlap a bit with green/white thanks to stuff like Young Wolf/Brindle Shoat and Martyr of Dusk/Doomed Traveler/Hunted Witness, plus all of white's Raise the Alarm-type spells. It looks like you already have two premium sac outlets in the form of Carrion Feeder and Plagued Rusalka, but I think Phyrexian Ghoul / Nantuko Husk are sort of the poster boys for this kind of deck at common. If you really want to signpost it you also have Golgari Rotwurm in GB. Grim Harvest used to be a strong card (it might still be, but the Recover rules text was far too much of a hassle for us), so bringing back essentially double the creature in the form of sac bears could do some work.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    No, dude. Ivory Giant is super overcosted and slow at this point. It has corner cases where it can shine, but that doesn't make it 360 worthy. It's the definition of a role-player. Similarly, I might recommend Acridian to players looking for an early control creature in an aggro-heavy cube, but I won't pretend that it's 360 material.

    Whatever problem you have with cubetutor, I hope you get over it someday. It's far too useful to just ignore.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance Spoiler
    Quote from Humphrey »
    what a weird bunch of cards. kinda hard to wrap my head around them because nothing stands out really.

    I think the only card I consider for my T1 is the Frenzied Arynx. As said I have to cheat on the guildslot then though, but somehow I want to replace Ill-Tempered Cyclops. oh and Skewer the Critics ofc

    Oh yeah, I was looking at Ill-Tempered Cyclops for potential inclusion. I still see it in quite a few lists online, but it seems very meh. No haste, under-curved, no real abilities to speak of aside from a late-game mana-sink.

    Ill-Gotten Inheritance is a interesting card for the grindgames, but i dont think it does enough. Sanitarium Skeleton seems better for those

    I dunno, I like the fire-and-forget style, but it is overcosted by about one mana. Sanitarium Skeleton was far too overcosted to be worth it either unless you were pairing it with spellshapers or something.

    Plague Wight pretty good if you want to support black aggro and are not shy to run x/1s.

    I don't know if this is actually better than a 2/1 with real evasion. That's almost my entire black 2CC section at this point.

    Wrecking Beast really good, but 7 is too much for the powered cube. For ramp it seems nice.

    Trample and haste is a great combo. At the very least, it could push out Havenwood Wurm for anyone still running it.

    Impassioned Orator finally a playable soul warden

    I wouldn't be so sure. It only triggers on your own creatures, so I question how often it'll even be better than something like Bishop's Soldier.

    Justiciar's Portal a blink effect that also works as combat trick

    A bit overcosted as a trick, but to rebuy ETB effects, untap a creature, or save a creature from removal, I think two mana is still mostly acceptable. I'm really curious how often you can combine that with the first strike to do real damage.

    Summary Judgment semi decent removal

    Aside from hitting mana dorks, I don't see how it's better than Gideon's Reproach - semi-decent sounds about right.

    Knight of Sorrows doenst even have a big butt. Pretty meh

    Yeah, it's very bad on this guy and the 5/3 Thrull in black. I think they both needed at least a small bump in toughness before they could be considered.

    Tenth District Veteran indeed seems interesting. but beside 2 exterts there is not much payoff and i think we already have a similar card. *the aven right.

    Dauntless Aven and this guy could form a sort of tag team package with the exerters, but it seems iffy. There's actually three exerters in white that see scattered inclusion (Gust Walker/Oketra's Avenger/Tah-Crop Elite) but red and green have their own and it might actually be ok considering the other tappers in these colors (I'm thinking Fireslinger, Gideon's Lawkeeper, Sparksmith, mana dorks...)

    phantom monster cost 4, much better

    People ran Aven Surveyor for a while and Chillbringer seems better, since it gives you both effects and is slightly easier to cast (bounce is usually seen as better, but it allows opponents to replay an untapped blocker/haster and rebuy potential ETBs, so I would consider it a wash). Don't underestimate having a critical mass of these fellows either. Getting every threat you play nailed down or bounced turn after turn while your opponent curves out is pretty backbreaking.

    Undercity Scavenger seems reasonable for sac

    Seems extremely reasonable, especially with token makers like Fungal Infection, Wakedancer and Moan of the Unhallowed now in black.

    Ghor-Clan Wrecker overcosted by 1. meh

    I actually like it a lot. Seems better than Ill-Tempered Cyclops and at least a little bit better than Hostile Minotaur. Could use the testing.

    Storm Strike those cc1 combat tricks that give first strike are really good, but red can just play burn

    Haha yeah, I don't even have room for actual burn at this point.

    Rampaging Rendhorn its okay. cc5 slot is pretty tight though

    Yes it is. We've never seen haste on such decently sized bodies in green though. It's got potential.

    Lawmage's Binding dont need more enchantment based removal that also occupies a guild slot tbh, but its good

    I actually cut Arrest recently in favor of Cage of Hands (a card I highly recommend since I ran Prison Term in my regular cube and both were great) since three mana is a lot to ask for this effect. Getting flash changes the evaluation though.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Yeah the average cube can be a pile, but with enough data it averages out. That's the whole point.

    Case in point:

    On cubetutor, there are 3,401 cubes with Pauper in their name at the time of this post.
    Out of those, 58 of them run Dash Hopes.
    Out of those, 20 of them can be considered recent (updated since 2018).

    In total, only 1.7% of all pauper cubes on cubetutor run the card. That's a fraction of the playerbase.
    If we're talking about current, updated cubes, the number drops to 0.58%. That's a fraction of a fraction.

    I don't know about you, but that seems pretty much in line with my previous conclusion. Like I said, opinion doesn't need to be taken as factual, but I think the data speaks for itself. And it's an essential tool in these conversations because now our ideas can be supported by evidence. It can help confirm what we already knew, or disprove an old idea and force us to rethink inclusions.

    The best part? This work took me all of five minutes. How would you even begin to collect this data without a site like cubetutor?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance Spoiler
    Full spoiler is up: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/ravnica-allegiance-2018-12-17

    Cards I think might be worth discussing:

    Justiciar's Portal - more blink support.
    Impassioned Orator - interesting take on lifegain.
    Knight of Sorrows - looks like afterlife is a way for bigger butts to bring value.
    Tenth District Veteran - could be interesting? Exert fans might want this.
    Chillbringer - detain mechanic appears higher up the curve. Could be an interesting choice if you run Phantom Monster.
    Sage's Row Savant - stronger than Sage of Epityr but weaker than Omenspeaker.
    Ill-Gotten Inheritance - interesting take on the bleed mechanic.
    Plague Wight - better Ashmouth Hound in black.
    Undercity Scavenger - nice sac payoff.
    Ghor-Clan Wrecker - definitely the kind of creature red wants. Might be good enough.
    Storm Strike - this is the first Sure Strike variant that makes me think about inclusion.
    Rampaging Rendhorn - I'm really liking the choices that riot gives. Better than Hollowhenge Beast, and that card needed at least one keyword to be playable.
    Wrecking Beast - straight-up better Duskdale Wurm.

    Green getting haste for its fatties is a significant buff. Hopefully a good sign for future sets. Riot is also a natural way to support +1/+1 counters.

    Applied Biomancy - might be an ok trick. Should really be +2/+2 to stand a chance though.
    Azorius Knight-Arbiter - good combo of keywords but seems slow and overcosted. Doesn't look much better than Hussar Patrol.
    Lawmage's Binding - instant speed Arrest.

    The hybrids all seem very meh. Overall, multicolor was weaker than I expected. I was hoping to fill out the second half of the guilds with some goodies, but aside from Frenzied Arynx for Gruul, the other guilds lost out.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Let's not dogpile on the fellow, my dudes. If you're getting that tingly feeling in your fingers that says it's time to post some drama, why not head over to the This or That discussion and help me make some cuts instead?

    I played with Dash Hopes when it first appeared in Planar Chaos, and I loved the concept, despite getting burned on punishers with Browbeat before. I played it in black-counters.dec (alongside Withering Boon, Imp's Mischief and Muck Drubb). I played it in Rakdos burn. I played it in its original draft format, where it was theoretically designed to be played. It was bad. And I struggle to imagine a game environment where it would be playable. Maybe if your games started at 15 life or a Squadron Hawk pick where the player got multiples of the card just for drafting it. The kind of gymnastics you'd have to pull off to accommodate it aren't worth it, imo.

    Dash Hopes is not some hidden gem that's gone overlooked for years. It might be a fun card, but it is not a good card. And that's tough to explain to someone without that person feeling like they're being personally attacked for their choice.

    So if it floats your boat, by all means keep it. As a rule of thumb, if I'm soliciting feedback and at least two people tell me the same thing, I would at least consider where they're coming from and if it has merit. I don't feel obligated to make changes, but it helps to keep an open mind.

    Quote from Kamino_Taka »
    I know that it's not a valid argument but look at most other Pauper cubes and you wont find dash hopes in there, now ask yourself why that is.

    I think this is absolutely a valid argument. It's usually used in reverse to find which cards are popular, though.

    Part of my considerations in cube management are data-driven - and cubetutor's treasure trove of data has been a godsend in that regard. It only takes me a handful of clicks to get a good idea of what's currently popular or falling out of lists, when I had to manually go through cubelist threads on MTGSalvation before, or try to collate between the three different decklist databases that cubers used. I can't state enough how amazing of a data-gathering tool it is, even if it's trendy now to poop on its lack of updates or whatever. Point being, we have the tools to do this when we didn't before, and we have an actual place we can point to when we need hard data.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance Spoiler
    From skimming pauper lists online, it looks like Rift Bolt is on its way out of 360 lists, and it's on the chopping block even at 540 for me as my weakest burn spell (I've cut Lava Dart/Geistflame, but I'm keeping Flame Jab around because it seems really good with my recent additions of Thermo-Alchemist and Firebrand Archer). I don't see this card sticking around, even if it looks good on paper. The quality of red burn at common is just too good.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Running Rogue Elephant and Acridian is very brave in this day and age Grin There's so much removal running around that the Elephant turns out to be a liability more than an asset. And Acridian will throw off your curve in all kinds of ways. That said, I run both and I think they're still relatively ok to play. Acridian in particular might actually become more relevant as the number of Savannah Lions and Borderland Marauders increase in pauper. Since you're already running those two, how about going whole hog and throwing in a Phyrexian War Beast too? Grin

    Humphrey is right about banding and infect though. If I had to level one criticism at banding, aside from the (in)comprehension issues and time issues it brings up, it is this: Magic is a game which already comes with a defender's advantage (the defender chooses what to block, how many creatures to block with, how to most efficiently block to maximize trades, etc). Banding takes that advantage and amplifies it to a point where it messes with the game's flow. It bogs the game down because, instead of the constant flow of back-and-forth, attack-defend-counterattack that the game encourages (and this in-game dynamic is so incredibly sophisticated that most of us players never really notice or think about it when it's working smoothly) banding almost completely removes any incentive to attack by making combat math difficult or even impossible to solve for the attacker, thus discouraging one of the most basic avenues to victory in the game.

    What's interesting to me is that a mechanic which is kind of the reverse (provoke) hasn't made a comeback either (I notice you have more provoke creatures than average in your list). I'm a big fan of this mechanic and I keep hoping it'll make a comeback in a more efficient or fixed form.

    At any rate, it looks like you really like things that can mess with combat math. Have you considered other ways to mess with combat? I know certain cubes (used to?) run Infantry Veteran. Other stuff like Heavy Ballista. Maybe more creatures that can self-pump like Ursine Champion or Knight of the Skyward Eye? Black has several Looming Shade-like cards. Oh yeah - the Kor creatures from Tempest block were essentially fixed banding, now that I think about it. If you like banding, you would probably like Nomads en-Kor and Spirit en-Kor. Zealous Inquisitor is a similar card. I also have Lancers en-Kor and Warrior en-Kor on my personal shortlist of cards I think will be downshifted eventually.

    RE: Rot Wolf - Green gets its card advantage through ramp like Cultivate and Skyshroud Claim, or pump like Wildsize and Sylvan Might. Rot Wolf almost seems worse than Generous Stray, since the cat gives you a card up-front and threatens the opponent better than what is essentially a 0/2 on offense for four turns until it morphs into a 20/2 (I can see how you could use Rot Wolf defensively to discourage small attackers or as pseudo-removal for bigger creatures though). In a magical world, you could just slap Elephant Guide on it and swing twice. I don't know if things usually work out that well in regular games, but I guess if you or your fellow drafters like the all-in, win-or-lose-with-one-play approach, you can have at it. Consider creatures like Wandering Wolf or Aura Gnarlid that also benefit from the Voltron theme without using a parasitic mechanic like infect or being too obnoxious like hexproof.

    Thanks for putting up the list - it's definitely interesting to see how a newer player might approach a cube and why. There's some things that kind of go against common knowledge, but it's also a way for viewers to rethink why we do things a certain way.

    P.S. I'm really curious how Ghostly Flicker "ruins the game" for you. In my experience, it's usually just an okay value pick that goes into Ux blink/value decks, the same way that Momentary Blink does.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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