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  • 1

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Quote from Onering »
    A chaotically aligned guild would simply be more willing than a guild aligned with order to take actions to change the system.


    Unless that orderly guild believes, or has been lead to believe, that they can achieve an even more orderly system by toppling the current one. Which was, IIRC Augustin's rational in the OG Ravnica block.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on [RNA] - Art Previews for the other five Shocklands
    It was posted in the Guilds of Ravnica discussion thread in the Storyline section. Not sure if it's posted anywhere else, but here it is:

    Quote from Caranthir »

    Anyway, here is a sneak peek at Azorius land. My money is on Hallowed Fountain (it is the same scene as on RtR art)
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 1

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Quote from Xeruh »
    Given that, again, the intent is not to cause harm and every action he takes is to avoid it, he is not malicious. That is the crux of the argument. Arguing about how good or bad his actions are, or any number of side tangents, are certainly interesting subjects (although also a bit off topic given we have no evidence Dovin will even show up in Ravnica) but not related to a willful desire to cause harm. That harm happens as part of his actions does not mean harm was the intent, and for him to be malicious you can’t judge him by anything but that. Which, again, all of his internal dialogue shows an intent to minimize harm to the best of his ability. That it doesn’t go as he hopes is irrelevant.

    Basically this. My argument isn't that Dovin can't be the bad guy, or that he can't be considered evil (though I don't believe that he is, but that's not particularly relevant to this specific quibble). My argument is that labeling him as "Malicious" is flat out ascribing a quality to him that is not supported by, and in fact actively contrary to, the narrative of his character.

    Malicious has a very specific meaning that simply doesn't fit with WotC's portrayal of Dovin Baan. He may be many things, but this is not one of them.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on Core 2019 General Discussion
    Quote from Trinite0 »
    Quote from OathboundOne »
    Quote from Trinite0 »
    I certainly think Vivien comes off as more interesting and believable than Huatli did, despite the flaws in this story. That's a fairly low bar, though. Khaw's work, whatever its qualities, is far better than the casualty-of-committee embarrassment that was the non-Jace-Vraska parts of the Ixalan story.
    Here I'll vehemently disagree. I read all of the Ixalan stories end to end, even the bad ones. I read the first Vivien story, skimmed over many parts of the second, and couldn't even force myself to finish the third.

    It's a matter of taste, certainly, and thus subjective as to a better or worse comparison, but at least for some of us Khaw's work is simply unpalatable.
    That's perfectly fair. But she can maintain a consistent verb tense, and not copy/paste the same sentence into two different places, so in my book she beats the Ixalan spread. Smile
    Perhaps it's simply a measure of my involvement with certain fanfiction communities that grammatical errors and poor formatting, while annoying, simply aren't deal breakers for me (unless they're egregious).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Quote from robot »
    Quote from OathboundOne »


    First, Ral is canonically aware that he's working for Bolas. At the end of Amonkhet after Bolas defeats the gatewatch he instructs Tezzeret to bring Ral to him, cause Ral's not meeting Bolas' timetables (not working fast enough on whatever it is that Bolas has him working on). Thus he has physically met with and been instructed by Bolas by this point in time. He may well not know, and very likely doesn't, just what Bolas is actually planning though. So it's entirely possible that Ral wouldn't be working for Bolas if he knew the truth, or would be acting to subvert him somehow if he had to work for him.


    I remember someone else posting direct quotes from that chapter that said to that point. That Tez has to go talk to Ral because Ral doesnt know who he is working for.

    Nope. Directly from the story Hour of Devastation:
    Tezzeret looked at him quizzically, but knew he would offer no more explanation.

    "Master, I should update you on . . ."

    "Later. Go and tell Ral Zarek to come to me. His progress is too slow."


    Ral knows he's working for Bolas.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 3

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    The fact is, from the flavour text on that red card, Ral does not even think he is working for Bolas.
    It says:
    "After the disappearance of Niv-Mizzet,
    Ral was in command of the guild.
    He had dreamt of this day, but it
    felt like he was a pawn in someone else's game."


    So he does not even fathom he is working for Bolas. He is probably working on something Bolas needs for his plan.
    In the guilds under his control (direct or indirect control) Vraska is probably the only one to know about Bolas (and maybe Dovin Baan if he is the new governor of the Senate).
    It'll just gonna be a sudden revelation and they'll all grasp the truth too late to save themselves from Bolas.
    And I wouldn't dismiss the malice of Dovin so easily. He was a mean of oppression on Kaladesh. He could be a good ambassador for Nicol Bolas if their goal met, or if he was brainwashed.


    Two points:

    First, Ral is canonically aware that he's working for Bolas. At the end of Amonkhet after Bolas defeats the gatewatch he instructs Tezzeret to bring Ral to him, cause Ral's not meeting Bolas' timetables (not working fast enough on whatever it is that Bolas has him working on). Thus he has physically met with and been instructed by Bolas by this point in time. He may well not know, and very likely doesn't, just what Bolas is actually planning though. So it's entirely possible that Ral wouldn't be working for Bolas if he knew the truth, or would be acting to subvert him somehow if he had to work for him.

    Second, Dovin is not malicious. Malice is a desire, or intention to cause harm. Dovin is actively opposite of malice. Everything he does is done to minimize damage and loss of life. As possibly misguided as his actions may be (which I would argue they're not, he's literally choosing between order and anarchy.), they're absolutely counter to malicious.

    From Dovin's point of view his choices are literally A) Work for the legitimate government of the city/plane to establish and maintain order or B) Topple the government and let anarchy reign, likely leading to wide scale damage to property and populace. The ending we got for Kaladesh was ridiculously implausible and unrealistic. The Consulate offers a mea culpa and gives the rebel leader a job and that's the end? After Pia spent a DECADE fanning resentment and hostility towards the government? Promised the overthrow of the government? That doesn't just stop cause one person gets a shiny new job. If anything that just makes Pia a traitor to the rebel cause. Kaladesh's happy ending is a complete hand-wavy ass-pull.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on Core 2019 General Discussion
    Quote from Trinite0 »
    I certainly think Vivien comes off as more interesting and believable than Huatli did, despite the flaws in this story. That's a fairly low bar, though. Khaw's work, whatever its qualities, is far better than the casualty-of-committee embarrassment that was the non-Jace-Vraska parts of the Ixalan story.
    Here I'll vehemently disagree. I read all of the Ixalan stories end to end, even the bad ones. I read the first Vivien story, skimmed over many parts of the second, and couldn't even force myself to finish the third.

    It's a matter of taste, certainly, and thus subjective as to a better or worse comparison, but at least for some of us Khaw's work is simply unpalatable.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 2

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    One thing to keep in mind is that a "Bolas aligned" or "Bolas controlled" guild need not be AWARE that they're one of his puppets.

    Gruul and/or Rakdos could easily be manipulated into working towards Bolas' plans simply by having his 'Walker exploit their anger and resentment of the system/anarchist mindset.

    Gruul could easily be used by Bolas without exactly being "on his side."
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Does anyone else think it strange how they switched Tajic and Razia’s sentiments towards the other guilds?

    See both guildgates

    Tajic is now anti cooperation where once he was willing to work with Teysa.

    RaziaAurelia was usually the more combative figure as seen in her treatment of Feather.


    Fix'd.

    Anyway, here is a sneak peek at Azorius land. My money is on Hallowed Fountain (it is the same scene as on RtR art)


    Notice anything interesting?
    Quote from Kruphix7 »
    Could be me overreading imagery but the glowing orange symbol in the middle looks vaguely like Bolas horns. Could also potentially be the planar bridge. Weird to see those little flying cars as vehicles would be new to Ravnica. Of the two small figures on the ground in between the towers one seems to have a fur-lined cape and glowing purple eyes so could be Liliana.


    They look very reminiscent of Kaladeshi thopters to me (implying Tezzeret, possibly EDIT: or, and I really hope not, Dovin Baan), beyond that the inverted triangle motif at the base of the towers is very evocative of Bolas's horns and the gem between them.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 1

    posted a message on Deafening Clarion
    This is such an odd card... have we seen any Boros creatures yet that wouldn't simply die to the 3 damage?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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