A flash of golden light flared like the sun rising at zenith, but the brightness was extinguished as quickly as it had appeared, leaving the stars again to shine. Yet some of those stars vanished in a descending trail, blotted out and then reappearing in a trail as if a large shape was falling out of the heavens. Naiva rubbed her eyes, thinking the storm had injured her vision, but when she looked again all the stars shone steadily. The clouds began clearing off as the rain ceased. Surely the falling blot had been nothing more than a distortion of wind and churning cloud.
The golden flash of light isn't actually consistent with the described effect of Bolas planeswalking in the Hour of Devastation story (there, it was described almost like a black void being ripped in reality), but this definitely has the feel of a really big planeswalker appearing in the sky and then descending to earth. And in a story where Bolas is described as "the Second Sun"...well, it would fit.
Why Bolas would take the time to tell his side of the story with someone else's voice, I don't know, but that definitely felt like what was going on to me.
I had simply taken it to be Atarka. She does sneak up on them (How exactly does a massive dragon with glowing antlers "sneak" up on anyone/thing?) in short order afterwards.
Maybe someone cant start a Oldwalker mentality thread because all this talk for the last two days has mostly nothing to do with Core Set 19 Storyline.
ON TOPIC:
Intereting that Ugin is possibly the first planeswalker?
Interesting that Bolas need to use deception and manipulation to make up for his apparent weakness of physical strength compared to other dragons, and that this mental manipulation is seemingly the reason for the Elder Dragon Wars
Not sure if Ugin or Bolas was influencing Jins story or if he was subconsciously tailoriing it to be a little more Pro-Dragon so a not to enrage Atarka and keep her satisfied becaus if he staring telling of the terribleness of Bolas's actions instead of grandizing them she may have just bit him in half.
Three episodes left to see what happens at Ugins grave and how Bolas sparks.
Well, Tae Jin specifically says that it wasn't the story he was trying to tell (he was going to tell Atarka about the summit with Shu Yun, where Shu ultimately surrendered the Jeskai to Ojutai);
"What tale was that you told, so like Ugin's story and yet not his story at all?"
"I don't know. I meant to tell the tale of the last days of Shu Yun's leadership. Of the last meeting of the khans and how they fell to the dragons."
This leads one to believe that someone was manipulating/influencing him to tell a different story (and all the Bolas aggrandizing certainly doesn't sound very Ugin-y).
I love how rich, textured and enveloping this writing is. It's easy to be immersed and believe Tarkir to be a true world in the context of fantasy writing. I'd love to see this author write for Theros in the future. We get a sense of culture, history, distance, weather, elements, fatigue, reasoning, etc. It's not like other stories where characters seem to just teleport to where they belong, advance the plot because they must, and come face to face with gods, resorting to humor of all things. Whereas before the writing felt like Saturday morning cartoons, I'm pleased to see how grand and horrifying Atarka is as a dragonlord, the influence she and the dangers of the world have on the band of travelers, and the effort it takes to travel such a vast world. The plane doesn't feel small, the Legends in power aren't pushovers, there's actual dimension to everything here. If she can write dragonlords this well, I'm dying to see this author write Greek Theros gods.
Yes, one reason why Tarkir was such an amazing plane also, and much went wasted in the new timeline.
Hm, didn't expect the Elder Dragon War to actually be described. Cool! I wonder who sent this vision, since Ugin wasn't part of the events.
This story also more and more shows how horrible the humanoid species of Tarkir have it under the dragons. I wonder what Ugin thinks of this. We never heard his opinion on the current state of his adopted home plane after all...
Since Ugin taught the humanoids to use Morph magic, I think he did not intend the dragons to rule like tyrants.
To expand on that line of thinking:
Indications are that Ugin maintained a deliberate balance between the Dragons and the Khans.
Prior to Ugin's death/"death" BOTH the Khans and the Dragonlords existed and it certainly appeared that both groups had a long and far reaching lineage. It was only once Ugin was removed from the picture that one side dominated the other. With Ugin dead there are no more dragonstorms so the humanoid races won out through simple attrition; With Ugin in stasis and the dragonstorms raging without his conscious control, dragons overwhelmed the clans and subjugated the humanoid races.
It'll be interesting to see what (if any) steps he takes to restore that balance.
Nicol is a consummate sociopath. That he has anyone's sympathy is mindboggling. The author isn't subtle about his many complexes. But a flash of "concern" for Ugin by way of (paraphrase) "I hope he actually did die and not leave like a cowardous weakling during MY moment of need." and people feel for him? That's a display of care and concern? Uhh. He is constantly thinking, talking, and acting better than anyone else. Murdering, manipulating, and being cowardous himself. "He cares "in his own way.'" And he's the abused one? Really laughable/concerning. I've read about Nicol Bolas for years now, and he only gets darker. Can't wait to see his defeat.
Random tangent but at least Nahiri actually had reason to go balls to the wall against Sorin. Of course she was dead-wrong for coming for all of Innistrad. But Nicol Bolas has done that x100. Yet has peoples' sympathy.
Needless to say, it's my own reading experience of Bolas that has not produced any sympathy at any point. It's just shocking, to me, that it does for others. Nothing about him reads sympathetic big bad to me, but whatever floats your skyship.
I don't think anyone was saying that Bolas was the abused one. He's clearly the abuser in the Bolas/Ugin dynamic.
I don't know how Ugin would know about this story unless he lifted it directly from Bolas' mind. Then again, I don't know how/why Bolas would think to interfere in the goings-on of Tarkir when he believes Ugin to be dead for 18 years. I'm curious to see who is responsible for Tae Jin's visions.
I had a suspicion for a few moments that Tar Jin might be Chromium, who would know all of this. But then I thought that is unlikely. But then I thought about it again. It just doesn't make sense for Ugin to define Bolas that way, let alone know all about this history and what happened (Bolas is the sole 'survivor' of the canyon/rocks/army scene before Vaevictis brother appeared; who else would know it but Bolas?). But if Bolas sent the visions, then he would know Ugin wasn't full dead. So I dunno.
I don't think that Bolas would need to be actively involved in manipulating Tae Jin's storytelling at that moment in time, rather it's possible that after he "killed" Ugin he cast some sort of enchantment that would influence the tellings of Tarkir's history to make himself not the bad guy. He's just that narcissistic, really. Also, he seems the type to add insult to injury, making himself out to be the reasonable one in spite of Ugin.
So the story could be Bolas' doing, but Bolas wouldn't necessarily have to be aware of the events on Tarkir after he "killed" Ugin.
Well, i like Sorin but i doubt he's an example for real life
There is no issue, Karn is described as "he" in his official biography, so he should be considered as a male, how his body is made doesn't really matter.
He's also never had a gender. He's referred to as "he" because English lacks a gender neutral pronoun that can be applied to sapient beings. "It" is used for objects and animals, but seems odd to use for a thing like a person.
I knew someone would say that
But you're wrong. Read Ashiok and Hallar biography, the writters know how to keep the gender ambigious, the writters could twist Karn's bio in order to make him genderless but they didn't. They kept the ambiguity with Ashiok. They kept the ambiguity with Hallar. They didn't with Karn.
Karn also entered the narrative at a time (real life) when the mainstream simply didn't much care about gender identity/conformity. His original writers/creators very likely never even considered presenting him in a non-gendered way.
While that's true, the lack of reproductive organs still doesn't make him agender.
Look, this isn't even trying to be a smart-alec in an annoying way. The thread is about identifying with characters based on ideals and behaviour. How do genitals factor into these things? I can't speak for the OP, but it feels like the opposite of what the thread is trying to achieve, even if we ignore the fact that there's a difference between gender and sex and that even today many people still have to fight abuse due to ignorance in this area.
While that's true, the lack of reproductive organs still doesn't make him agender.
Look, this isn't even trying to be a smart-alec in an annoying way. The thread is about identifying with characters based on ideals and behaviour. How do genitals factor into these things? I can't speak for the OP, but it feels like the opposite of what the thread is trying to achieve, even if we ignore the fact that there's a difference between gender and sex and that even today many people still have to fight abuse due to ignorance in this area.
Yeah, in-story Karn identifies as male and uses male pronouns so he can be included in the topic if people want to discuss him.
This is true even if the non-story reason for that is the writers not thinking about gender identity at the time he was designed.
Like, the presence or absence of a character's genitals isn't really a sfw conversation topic (and if you were talking about actual people rather than characters would be both creepily obsessive and none of your business), so I'm going to strongly suggest moving on.
So: I like Karn. True pacifism is hard (and maybe questionable depending on the context it occurs in) but it takes admirable strength to make a moral stand like that. Karn is kind of inspiring.
I think I've maybe been wording my responses poorly, because I actually agree that Karn is fair game for this thread. It was never my intention to argue that he's not male, I was discussing reader's perception of his gender, not his gender itself (I freely admit that I should have said "Most people don't see him as genderless" instead of "Many/some"). (I will however note that per MaRo, Karn doesn't personally identify as male, but rather others identify him as such and he simply doesn't care enough about how others perceive him to correct them. Again, as per MaRo.)
Karn as presented in the narrative is for all intents and purposes male, but is labeled as genderless by some in the meta (including at least one member of WotC). When I said "the issue with Karn's gender" I was again specifically referring to people's/reader's perception of his gender/genderlessness, not whether he has one or not.
I brought up the fact that Karn's writers/creators very likely never even thought of presenting him as genderless not as some sort of argument for him being genderless, but as an argument that his writers/creators would in all likelyhood have never even intended for him to be perceived of as NOT having one(male).
I wasn't the one who said he was genderless (Though again I admit that my previous replies may have left some ambiguity). You'll also note that I never brought genitals or reproduction into it.
He's literally made of silver. No reproductive capabilities. He's asexual and genderless, but appears male, with a late male's spark. Not that I'm partial to this type of character or representation (it's a bit... out there) but it's there, and I'm sure there are those who identify with Karn I suppose. I certainly don't or care to, but I can see where Creative is coming from.
I think the issue with Karn's gender is simply that since he looks male people think of him as male and he doesn't bother/care enough to correct them, making him de facto male. (Many/some) People IRL don't see/think of/treat him as genderless, because no one in lore does. He's always just been "male."
There is no issue, Karn is described as "he" in his official biography, so he should be considered as a male, how his body is made doesn't really matter.
He's also never had a gender. He's referred to as "he" because English lacks a gender neutral pronoun that can be applied to sapient beings. "It" is used for objects and animals, but seems odd to use for a thing like a person.
I knew someone would say that
But you're wrong. Read Ashiok and Hallar biography, the writters know how to keep the gender ambigious, the writters could twist Karn's bio in order to make him genderless but they didn't. They kept the ambiguity with Ashiok. They kept the ambiguity with Hallar. They didn't with Karn.
Karn also entered the narrative at a time (real life) when the mainstream simply didn't much care about gender identity/conformity. His original writers/creators very likely never even considered presenting him in a non-gendered way.
Don't forget all the admirable genderless characters! Karn and Yahenni are both pretty swell. Ashiok, not as much.
How is Karn genderless? He is consistently treated as a male character, both in and out of story.
He's literally made of silver. No reproductive capabilities. He's asexual and genderless, but appears male, with a late male's spark. Not that I'm partial to this type of character or representation (it's a bit... out there) but it's there, and I'm sure there are those who identify with Karn I suppose. I certainly don't or care to, but I can see where Creative is coming from.
I think the issue with Karn's gender is simply that since he looks male people think of him as male and he doesn't bother/care enough to correct them, making him de facto male. (Many/some) People IRL don't see/think of/treat him as genderless, because no one in lore does. He's always just been "male."
I really enjoyed this story, though it was a bit preposterous to expect that I believed some Ojutai monk had memorized those exact words.
Its not that hard to believe once you realize that the Illiad was traditionally recited from memory by Greek storytellers in exactly the same fashion. As were all the classic Greek myths and epic poems, even after writing was invented. After all, most Greeks couldn't actually read. In fact, poetry was probably invented to be a mnemonic device to help people learn everything from instructions to, yes, epic stories. And its not the only culture that passed down such lengthy stories orally. In pre-literate societies it was the only way to preserve histories and myths. There are societies where stories could be so long the storyteller had to recite it from memory over the course of days (again, like the Illiad). But because we are taught how to read from a very early age, we underestimate how much of a story can be memorized down to the last word. But it is indeed doable. And it gets easier if you've practiced reciting the story since childhood, like many of us have unwittingly done with many fairy tales and children's stories. Actors also have to do something similar with their lines and stage directions, especially stage actors. Once you are on camera or in front of a live audience, the script must be in your head, not your hands.
So yeah, I'm actually really liking this as a framing device for the story. That the Jeskai preserved Ugin's story orally not only makes Tarkir feel more real, I love the implication that we are hearing a story which will eventually be passed down to Narset by the Temur shamans, who in turn will pass it down to Tamyo and her children on Kamigawa! Now imagine if the Story Circle shared it with Teferi or someone else who could bring things full circle and fill in a major gap in Dominarian history.
This would actually be very potent and interesting in Tamiyo’s hands.
-We know that Tamiyo is likely gonna make an appearance on Ravnica due to some poster art
-we know that Tamiyo’s magic incorporates stories, and oral and written traditions in addition to hear skills of deduction and observation.
I wonder how potent the story of an Elder Dragon’s birth, coming of age, etc would be in the hands of such s mage?
Hmmmm.... It's entirely possible that Tamiyo might even have this story already. Narset was an Ojutai master and is a part of Tamiyo's story circle. This seems like just the type of story Tamiyo would be interested in and Narset could easily know it well enough to share it with her.
With the art, that we have and don't have... I don't think we will see Elspeth in Standard soon. I think it is most likely, that we will see her with Garruk and Saheeli in Commander, while the others are SCDD and first Ravnica - and with no Vraska that maybe means she isn't the Guild leader of the Golgari?
Elspeth requires a pretty big story event to get a new card (what with being dead and all), I highly doubt that will be relegated to a supplemental set. I also don't think that we can necessarily say that a character not having art on the poster means they won't be getting a new card in the near future.
This story continues to be excellent. I like this author. I enjoy her style and voice. I love the story she's telling.
I noted the existence of bronze shields. We are now in Dominaria's Bronze Age, and probably at the very beginning of it (nothing as advanced as Egypt's pyramids or Sumer's ziggurats seem to feature here. There are stone-slab buildings, thatched roofs, and palisades, but nothing much beyond that yet. Still, agriculture has taken root by this point.
Points I'm curious about:
Is this the first city on Dominaria?
Is Arcades Sabboth the founder of Dominarian civilization?
Did agriculture and bronze smithing exist before Sabboth showed up? How much of the technology we saw here was imparted by the dragon? I ask because it seems only a few years seem to have passed between this week's and last week's stories, but last week's world felt even more primitive.
It did read like that, but we need to keep in mind that these sections of the story are from Ugin's point of view. As a being over 20,000 years old, to him the span of centuries would feel like only a few years as we reckon them.
Tamiyo and Saheeli both seem to be exactly where we last saw them: Innistrad and Kaladesh respectively. This says to me that, rather than seeing them in an upcoming standard set, they're likely to be face cards for Commander 2018.
If Tamiyo isn't on Ravnica, then it's on a plane that is culturally identical to it.
It's Ravnica.
I've got to agree. The architecture is way more reminiscent or Ravnica than Innistrad.
I had simply taken it to be Atarka. She does sneak up on them (How exactly does a massive dragon with glowing antlers "sneak" up on anyone/thing?) in short order afterwards.
Well, Tae Jin specifically says that it wasn't the story he was trying to tell (he was going to tell Atarka about the summit with Shu Yun, where Shu ultimately surrendered the Jeskai to Ojutai);
This leads one to believe that someone was manipulating/influencing him to tell a different story (and all the Bolas aggrandizing certainly doesn't sound very Ugin-y).
To expand on that line of thinking:
Indications are that Ugin maintained a deliberate balance between the Dragons and the Khans.
Prior to Ugin's death/"death" BOTH the Khans and the Dragonlords existed and it certainly appeared that both groups had a long and far reaching lineage. It was only once Ugin was removed from the picture that one side dominated the other. With Ugin dead there are no more dragonstorms so the humanoid races won out through simple attrition; With Ugin in stasis and the dragonstorms raging without his conscious control, dragons overwhelmed the clans and subjugated the humanoid races.
It'll be interesting to see what (if any) steps he takes to restore that balance.
I don't think anyone was saying that Bolas was the abused one. He's clearly the abuser in the Bolas/Ugin dynamic.
I don't think that Bolas would need to be actively involved in manipulating Tae Jin's storytelling at that moment in time, rather it's possible that after he "killed" Ugin he cast some sort of enchantment that would influence the tellings of Tarkir's history to make himself not the bad guy. He's just that narcissistic, really. Also, he seems the type to add insult to injury, making himself out to be the reasonable one in spite of Ugin.
So the story could be Bolas' doing, but Bolas wouldn't necessarily have to be aware of the events on Tarkir after he "killed" Ugin.
I think I've maybe been wording my responses poorly, because I actually agree that Karn is fair game for this thread. It was never my intention to argue that he's not male, I was discussing reader's perception of his gender, not his gender itself (I freely admit that I should have said "Most people don't see him as genderless" instead of "Many/some"). (I will however note that per MaRo, Karn doesn't personally identify as male, but rather others identify him as such and he simply doesn't care enough about how others perceive him to correct them. Again, as per MaRo.)
Karn as presented in the narrative is for all intents and purposes male, but is labeled as genderless by some in the meta (including at least one member of WotC). When I said "the issue with Karn's gender" I was again specifically referring to people's/reader's perception of his gender/genderlessness, not whether he has one or not.
I brought up the fact that Karn's writers/creators very likely never even thought of presenting him as genderless not as some sort of argument for him being genderless, but as an argument that his writers/creators would in all likelyhood have never even intended for him to be perceived of as NOT having one(male).
I wasn't the one who said he was genderless (Though again I admit that my previous replies may have left some ambiguity). You'll also note that I never brought genitals or reproduction into it.
Karn also entered the narrative at a time (real life) when the mainstream simply didn't much care about gender identity/conformity. His original writers/creators very likely never even considered presenting him in a non-gendered way.
The next one. MaRo said a "I believe the preview week starts a week from Monday." on Blogatog.
I think the issue with Karn's gender is simply that since he looks male people think of him as male and he doesn't bother/care enough to correct them, making him de facto male. (Many/some) People IRL don't see/think of/treat him as genderless, because no one in lore does. He's always just been "male."
Hmmmm.... It's entirely possible that Tamiyo might even have this story already. Narset was an Ojutai master and is a part of Tamiyo's story circle. This seems like just the type of story Tamiyo would be interested in and Narset could easily know it well enough to share it with her.
Hmmmm.....
Elspeth requires a pretty big story event to get a new card (what with being dead and all), I highly doubt that will be relegated to a supplemental set. I also don't think that we can necessarily say that a character not having art on the poster means they won't be getting a new card in the near future.
And then... I want to switch my life total with it...
*Essentially
It did read like that, but we need to keep in mind that these sections of the story are from Ugin's point of view. As a being over 20,000 years old, to him the span of centuries would feel like only a few years as we reckon them.
I've got to agree. The architecture is way more reminiscent or Ravnica than Innistrad.
Examples:
Azorius Guildgate
Selesnya Guildgate
Thespian's Stage
Orzhov Guildgate (the Dragon's Maze/C17/ModernMasters17 version)
any of the RTR Islands (particularly #2 and #3)(I don't know how to link to specific versions of basics, sorry)
Domed roofs simply aren't a major feature of Innistradi buildings, whereas they feature very prominently in the new Tamiyo art.
Fairly certain this is the case. The event represented/implied is likely the duel between Sarkhan, Jace and Chandra at the Eye of Ugin.
Sorcery
Create four 1/1 red Goblin creature tokens.
Goblins you control gain haste until end of turn.
Next: Along a very similar vein, lets see something for Marrow-Gnawer.