And if you're not testing on untap...you really need to try it. Unless of course you're an MTGO guy who laughs at us freeware plebs.
My freeware platform of choice has been XMage. I recommend checking it out if you haven't heard of it before.
FYI -- I've been tinkering with this deck as well and have been 'lurking' in the thread since its creation. Really enjoying the conversation so far. Keep up the good work and testing. Hoping I can chime in with some suggestions as well as the deck evolves.
I believe Syreal has been known to run Brain Maggot in his sideboard. Just like Freebooter but can also grab creature cards. I guess the 'downside' would be 1 toughness and no flying but I don't see that as too big of a deal
Anyway, after building literally hundreds of lists (some of my very early attempts can be seen deep in this thread somewhere) and playing loads of solitaire, free games and 2-mans on MTGO, I decided to take my current list (which I have been honing for a while now)for a run in the casual modern league.
Finished the league 4-1. The list and the win image is below.
I've never played a Belcher deck before but after seeing your list and rundown I decided to give it a whirl.
Before I tried out a few games I just assumed that hitting land drops/getting mana was going to be tough with only 7 Forests in the whole deck but, man, it is pretty damn consistent. Only one time (that I can remember) did I have to mulligan into oblivion. Color me impressed.
I also like how the deck goes into 'beatdown mode' after sideboarding, hoping to take advantage of the opponent likely going into the next game a bit lighter on removal spells.
Thinking about cutting some of the Instants and Sorceries above since they're usually the first things I board out after Game 1. Considering main-decking Beast Within since I find myself boarding it in a lot. It destroys everything and a 3/3 is usually no match for the creatures we can put out. I'm just playing 2 Assault Formations because I think its good but I don't want the deck reliant on having it out in order to win games. Wondering if I should run more Blossoming Defense type of spells to blank removal or more evasion spells like Canopy Cover to get through chump blockers.
Help me understand if I'm wrong but I feel like Disrupting Shoal isn't as good as Mana Leak or Rune Snag. Sure, its a 'free' hard counter but it costs us an additional card and it must be a specific costed one at that. In a deck like Faeries we'll only hit spells at CMC 1-3 majority of the time. Sure that's most of Modern's staples/playables but we'll never counter things like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and other Tron spells, Reality Smasher, opposing Cryptic Commands, Primeval Titan, etc.
I'll agree a bit with Censor but I feel like someone in another thread explained it perfectly -- "Think of Censor mainly as a cantrip with an upside - that it may counter a spell at one point in the game". If you play it I don't think you should rely on its main ability, but instead use it as an instant-speed Serum Visions without the scry or Thought Scour without the mill. And instead it reads "pay additional 1 and counter target spell instead of draw". So I guess my question would be whether Faeries wants a cantrip in the first place and if so, which provides the more appealing upside -- scrying, hand information, buyback (Whispers of the Muse), counterspell, etc. I also think the new Hieroglyphic Illumination could act as a decent 'cantrip'/card draw spell.
I've been on the fence about Unsubstantiate. Yes, it is versatile but its an unimpressive replacement for Remand and Vapor Snag when you need it to perform as such. I'm all for testing it in my list but I've been scratching my head as to what to take out in order to make room for them. I'd be interested in seeing you guys' lists if you're using it.
Are there any new blue cards in Amonkhet that could be worth considering? The first one that comes to my mind is Censor. Sure, it can easily turn into a dead counterspell as the game goes on but I think the Cycling ability could make up for it. I could imagine running just one or two. I don't think you'd want a full playset. Maybe its still not that great - people don't normally tap out against a blue player holding up 2+ mana and the "Pay 1" is a bit of a joke. Thoughts on this and any others?
Is there a reason we don't consider Spell Pierce? Is it just that Mana Leak catches more and the "tax" is higher?
I want to like Unsubstantiate, especially when I have a Vapor Snag in hand and wishing it was a Remand instead (and vice-versa) but when each are side-by-side it's a bit disappointing. Would you consider them more of a sideboard addition or could you see it being run mainboard? Is it worth sacrificing value for flexibility if I decide to replace a few Snags with Unsubstantiate?
I agree with your core cards spells. Looking through the thread it looks like the general consensus is to have at least the following:
The list looks cool and I like the idea so its next in my list of decks to test out. It doesn't exactly fit the "Tempo Aggro" theme of the thread but it could spark some new ideas. Since it is 5 years old, are there any cards that could be added to make it more up-to-date with the current meta? Faerie Miscreant is the first thing that comes to mind here but it may not fit its more control-ly gameplan.
Quickling hasn't been too bad in my last few lists (bouncing/saving chump blockers or fizzling removal) but yes, having lots of bounce can be a problem. I don't like the "Sorcery speed" of the Impostor either.
I don't exactly like going extra-aggro with the list. I've found out that this deck likes to be patient a lot of the time. Many times I'll just ping away with a measly 1/1 instead of filling the board because my opponent is more worried about a potential counterspell I've kept up mana for.
Could Door of Destinies fit in the deck? 4 mana is a lot for us to reach but I think DoD's power level could get out of hand as the game goes longer and we keep dropping/bouncing cheap creatures.
Is Advice from the Fae viable? Found it looking through lists of cards with Faerie synergies. It may suck but it looked fun
I do think that Familiar's Ruse could be good in a deck with lots of 1-drops. They can be pretty easy to pick up and re-play without making it too awkward to hold up more counters when we have them.
I think Dimir could add a lot but by adding a second color you can risk consistency and mess with the tempo/aggro gameplan. And on a more personal level, I can't exactly afford to shell out cash for Bitterblossoms and lands
I agree, Mutavault seems better. It may be just me, but I never seem to use Ghost Quarter correctly and/or I never seem to need to sac it unless its for something like Tron.
I think Quickling has worked well with the inclusion of additional 1-drops. I've found myself having more of an on-board presence and when I'm ready to play it there's less of a chance that I get 2-for-1-ed.
Favorable Winds is nice, especially if I'm going with a build that has more 1-drops and 1/1s. So, this led me to test out a new and lower curve list:
Pestermites usually clogged up my starting hand so I dropped them. Spell Snare is very strong but I just rarely had the opportunity to cast it or I already had plenty of mana to play another counter. I came up with this build a bit before your reply but I could see it now transforming more into something like this:
I'm leaning more towards the Smuggler's Copter since its a decent sized threat and I can pitch any extra unwanted lands for new cards but Copter costs quite a bit more money-wise and I'm still trying to keep a budget.
I agree with you that Aether Vial is probably best here but its a bit too pricey for me. Sadly still trying to keep my Magic decks "budget" at the moment.
Would I be better off running a list closer to this?:
I also agree with you that Zephyr Sprite isn't exactly a great card/creature but playing around with this version of the deck I seem to agree with what HanClinto and Luthier86 had to say -- I find myself needing/looking for the 1-drop faeries to power up my SSSs and keep my Quicklings and Mistbinds playable.
I'm thinking about trading out some Ghost Quarters for a few Islands. I just seem to get more use out of having the right mana than hitting an opponent's land (at least for Game 1). I'm also considering making some cuts to put Zephyr Sprite in. There have been quite a few opportunities where I've wanted to have another faerie on board but I just can't cast one by itself or cast it without needing to hold up counter spell mana.
Has anyone made any recent improvements or tested any good recent additions to the list? Any ideas/suggestions appreciated!
My freeware platform of choice has been XMage. I recommend checking it out if you haven't heard of it before.
FYI -- I've been tinkering with this deck as well and have been 'lurking' in the thread since its creation. Really enjoying the conversation so far. Keep up the good work and testing. Hoping I can chime in with some suggestions as well as the deck evolves.
I've never played a Belcher deck before but after seeing your list and rundown I decided to give it a whirl.
Before I tried out a few games I just assumed that hitting land drops/getting mana was going to be tough with only 7 Forests in the whole deck but, man, it is pretty damn consistent. Only one time (that I can remember) did I have to mulligan into oblivion. Color me impressed.
I also like how the deck goes into 'beatdown mode' after sideboarding, hoping to take advantage of the opponent likely going into the next game a bit lighter on removal spells.
I'm starting to agree with this sentiment
4 Treefolk Harbinger
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Bosk Banneret
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Dungrove Elder
4 Dauntless Dourbark
3 Leaf-Crowned Elder
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Timber Protector
2 Assault Formation
Instants and Sorceries (6)
2 Primal Bellow
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Harmonize
1 Reach of Branches
24 Forest
Thinking about cutting some of the Instants and Sorceries above since they're usually the first things I board out after Game 1. Considering main-decking Beast Within since I find myself boarding it in a lot. It destroys everything and a 3/3 is usually no match for the creatures we can put out. I'm just playing 2 Assault Formations because I think its good but I don't want the deck reliant on having it out in order to win games. Wondering if I should run more Blossoming Defense type of spells to blank removal or more evasion spells like Canopy Cover to get through chump blockers.
I'll agree a bit with Censor but I feel like someone in another thread explained it perfectly -- "Think of Censor mainly as a cantrip with an upside - that it may counter a spell at one point in the game". If you play it I don't think you should rely on its main ability, but instead use it as an instant-speed Serum Visions without the scry or Thought Scour without the mill. And instead it reads "pay additional 1 and counter target spell instead of draw". So I guess my question would be whether Faeries wants a cantrip in the first place and if so, which provides the more appealing upside -- scrying, hand information, buyback (Whispers of the Muse), counterspell, etc. I also think the new Hieroglyphic Illumination could act as a decent 'cantrip'/card draw spell.
Are there any new blue cards in Amonkhet that could be worth considering? The first one that comes to my mind is Censor. Sure, it can easily turn into a dead counterspell as the game goes on but I think the Cycling ability could make up for it. I could imagine running just one or two. I don't think you'd want a full playset. Maybe its still not that great - people don't normally tap out against a blue player holding up 2+ mana and the "Pay 1" is a bit of a joke. Thoughts on this and any others?
I want to like Unsubstantiate, especially when I have a Vapor Snag in hand and wishing it was a Remand instead (and vice-versa) but when each are side-by-side it's a bit disappointing. Would you consider them more of a sideboard addition or could you see it being run mainboard? Is it worth sacrificing value for flexibility if I decide to replace a few Snags with Unsubstantiate?
I agree with your core cards spells. Looking through the thread it looks like the general consensus is to have at least the following:
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Scion of Oona
2 Mistbind Clique
4 Vapor Snag
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
6 Additional Lands
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Scion of Oona
2 Spellskite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (18)
4 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
3 Vedalken Shackles
2 Faerie Conclave
18 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Vendilion Clique
The list looks cool and I like the idea so its next in my list of decks to test out. It doesn't exactly fit the "Tempo Aggro" theme of the thread but it could spark some new ideas. Since it is 5 years old, are there any cards that could be added to make it more up-to-date with the current meta? Faerie Miscreant is the first thing that comes to mind here but it may not fit its more control-ly gameplan.
I agree with Judge's Familiar and Mausoleum Wanderer being much better than Zephyr Sprite but the Sprite plays better with Spellstutter Sprites, Scion of Oonas, and Mistbind Cliques. Which is the better trade-off for our deck? Honest question.
I don't exactly like going extra-aggro with the list. I've found out that this deck likes to be patient a lot of the time. Many times I'll just ping away with a measly 1/1 instead of filling the board because my opponent is more worried about a potential counterspell I've kept up mana for.
Could Door of Destinies fit in the deck? 4 mana is a lot for us to reach but I think DoD's power level could get out of hand as the game goes longer and we keep dropping/bouncing cheap creatures.
Is Advice from the Fae viable? Found it looking through lists of cards with Faerie synergies. It may suck but it looked fun
I do think that Familiar's Ruse could be good in a deck with lots of 1-drops. They can be pretty easy to pick up and re-play without making it too awkward to hold up more counters when we have them.
I think Dimir could add a lot but by adding a second color you can risk consistency and mess with the tempo/aggro gameplan. And on a more personal level, I can't exactly afford to shell out cash for Bitterblossoms and lands
I think Quickling has worked well with the inclusion of additional 1-drops. I've found myself having more of an on-board presence and when I'm ready to play it there's less of a chance that I get 2-for-1-ed.
Favorable Winds is nice, especially if I'm going with a build that has more 1-drops and 1/1s. So, this led me to test out a new and lower curve list:
3 Zephyr Sprite
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Quickling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
4 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Favorable Winds
Lands (22)
2 Faerie Conclave
3 Ghost Quarter
17 Island
2 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Echoing Truth
2 Negate
3 Spreading Seas
Pestermites usually clogged up my starting hand so I dropped them. Spell Snare is very strong but I just rarely had the opportunity to cast it or I already had plenty of mana to play another counter. I came up with this build a bit before your reply but I could see it now transforming more into something like this:
3 Zephyr Sprite
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Quickling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
Spells (16)
4 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Favorable Winds
2 Military Intelligence/Smuggler's Copter
2 Faerie Conclave/or just Island(?)
3 Mutavault
17 Island
2 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Echoing Truth
2 Negate
3 Spreading Seas
I'm leaning more towards the Smuggler's Copter since its a decent sized threat and I can pitch any extra unwanted lands for new cards but Copter costs quite a bit more money-wise and I'm still trying to keep a budget.
Would I be better off running a list closer to this?:
2 Zephyr Sprite
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Quickling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Spell Snare
4 Vapor Snag
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
Lands (22)
3 Faerie Conclave
3 Ghost Quarter
16 Island
2 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Prism Ring
1 Echoing Truth
3 Negate
3 Spreading Seas
I also agree with you that Zephyr Sprite isn't exactly a great card/creature but playing around with this version of the deck I seem to agree with what HanClinto and Luthier86 had to say -- I find myself needing/looking for the 1-drop faeries to power up my SSSs and keep my Quicklings and Mistbinds playable.
A few questions on some past suggestions:
Enjoying the discussion here!
1 Faerie Impostor
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Quickling
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
1 Unsummon
4 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
Lands (22)
3 Faerie Conclave
4 Ghost Quarter
15 Island
2 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Prism Ring
1 Echoing Truth
3 Negate
3 Spreading Seas
I'm thinking about trading out some Ghost Quarters for a few Islands. I just seem to get more use out of having the right mana than hitting an opponent's land (at least for Game 1). I'm also considering making some cuts to put Zephyr Sprite in. There have been quite a few opportunities where I've wanted to have another faerie on board but I just can't cast one by itself or cast it without needing to hold up counter spell mana.
Has anyone made any recent improvements or tested any good recent additions to the list? Any ideas/suggestions appreciated!