This https://i.imgur.com/EoAkWtn.png got spoiled and I was wondering what you thought of it. I definitely think this card has some place in the 75 and wanted to hear your thoughts
Absolutely.
Flex spots for 3-4 FP:
4th Path to Exile
3rd/4th Supreme Verdict (3rd must go in SB)
4th Serum Visions (if you're on 4)
2nd Blessed Alliance (less inclined to remove any, but move 2nd in SB if you do)
It's a flex Walker with a specific role. Batterskull was great here, too. This slot can also be 4th wrath, EE, Sphere, Walker, or another cheap removal.
In fact, a 4th sweeper is likely the best option for stabilization against the aggressive meta - preferably *** as Elves seem to be on the rise.
I haven't considered Ajani. Interesting to say the least. Let me know how testing goes.
Please do not take this as an attack. It is not meant to be. Why not simply replace Narset with actual good cards and play esper tapout midrange?
I get this a quite a bit, but how we define "good cards" is sometimes predicated on their relevance/context in its respective deck, not necessarily in a vacuum. Just look at Lantern Control.
No other Walker would provide the pressure/value that Narset does in this deck's design and gameplan. There have been skeptics, but you have to experience the deck to understand why she's there and how she functions vs the field with the rest of the deck.
For more Info, I'll be sharing an article I collaborated with Ali Aintrazi covering this deck. It will be out later this week.
How do you feel about the use of Ancestral Vision (Preferably as a four of) in the Esper Transcendent list? I have a full playset that I'm itching to use, but is scrying with Serum Visions that much more important on top of the immediate card draw it provides?
Really interested in this deck archetype! I was always looking for a viable esper deck, and the draw-go style didn't really appeal to me due to its tendency to durdle. Still, I have some questions on lines of play as well as sideboard cards for this deck:
1. How do we combat Combo decks pre-board? In the case of Abzan company and other infinite combo decks, do we simply aggressively discard their hand and path their pieces? Post-board I can see that sideboard helps, but I feel like I'm missing some sort of strategy in beating these kinds of decks
2. For Dredge and Tron, is there any other way of mitigating the bad match-up? I understand that there really is no solution for some of their pieces, but is it really an instant-loss? Not drawing our silver bullets against them just leads to a scoop in my playtesting. Will siding in counterspells help? I also acknowledge the fact that putting in more counters could dilute the gameplan and even cause durdle turns, but that's all I've got.
1. Yes, aggressively discard their hand, and remove their creatures (if any) in the pre-board game. If your meta is combo/control heavy, you may swap some negates from the sideboard to the main to improve those matchups. Post board, bring the extraction cards and exile the pieces.
2. Dredge and tron are indeed bad matchups. I don't think they're insta-loss, but they depend too much on the luck-skill combination. I don't have much experience on the dredge match, but against Tron I play stupidly aggressive pre-board. You can't stop them consistently (eventually they will have all the lands, and they will top deck something), so don't focus on their hand or their lands, just fill the ground with treats and attack them. Gideon Ally and Batterskull are key pieces accelerating this plan. Obviously this is not bullet proof, but is better than sit and wait for Karn, Ugin or Ulamog to appear and kill us
Esper Charm is fantastic vs them, especially at their draw step or after they Sanctum of Ugin. You definitely want to keep their hand count low (hopefully put them in top deck) while applying pressure. Narset can apply this pressure, too, by Rebounding Souls, Charm (attacking their hand), and threatening them with her final (shuts off a majority of their deck).
The deck is better post-board with more Thoughtseize, 3 Negate, Extractions, Anguished (which can be Detention Sphere), and Geist.
I'm thinking about lowering the curve and swapping Batterskull for another 4 cmc Walker, one that sort of fulfills its role more efficiently. We're thinking about Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is underwhelming as a stabilizer if you don't have any creatures on the board. It's worse post-Verdict, too, as you can't generate Tokens unless you -2. His final is a little more threatening post-Verdict, though.
I have played a couple of matches with this deck, it has been awesome so far.
There is only one small issue I have with the current list is the second copy of Gideon Jura.
I think modern is too fast to have 3 cards in the CMC 5 slot, especially with no mana acceleration. There have been a couple of times, where I did not manage to draw enough lands to cast him. I am aware of his role and his strength, but it really feels miserable to have multiple copies stranded in your hand.
Do you have any suggestions for a possible replacement with a lower CMC for the second copy? For now, I have one Gideon Jura with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
For the SB, I have also included one copy of Zealous Persecution, a card I have not seen here mentioned before.
Very useful against Affinity, Elves and other mana dork decks (e.g. Green Devotion), where Supreme Verdict might be too slow.
Out of curiosity, have you tried The Thing in the Ice as a possible MB or SB inclusion? It does & does not work well with Lingering Souls, it would work well with Narset (both abilties provide fuel to flip the thing), has nice synergies with Snapcaster Mage and is somewhat resilient to removal. The major downside is the reduction of the noncreature spell count for Narset and it also doesn't play well with the mainboard Supreme Verdicts. It may have a place in the SB for matches against aggro decks, especially if they board out their removal spells.
Thanks for the feedback. It's actually an area I've been discussing with my team and community. To lower the curve, swapping 2nd Jura for 2nd Ally is what I'd do. Ally can run away with games, gives the deck an aggressive angle that compliments the deck's pressure plan to turn the corner post-disruption (with Souls/Geist), and has a lot of synergy with the rest of the deck. I think we defend well enough that 2nd Jura may not be necessary, but at least 1 should definitely be there, with maybe a 2nd in the board if you're inclined.
Zealous Persecution is sweet! Nice tech, bud.
I haven't considered TiTi, but could be worth testing. Just watch your creature count. I wouldn't go beyond 5 in the main and Snap should remain a 3 of.
I would rather you play an extra gideon jura and cut ally of zendikar. I don't really see why ally gideon belongs here? Other than that, the list looks list really solid! I am trying out a pair of cryptics as well. Also maybe add a 4th serum visions.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is part of the deck's ability to pressure and turn the corner vs Combo/Control (and Tron). Several decks can't handle him, namely Jund, Grixis, and any deck that is Path-less. It also synergizes with Lingering Souls (insane as a top deck and when you Rebound Lingering Souls), stabilizes with bodies (certain Aggro/Midrange decks just fold to it), is a non-creature threat/win-con (good for Narset's +1), and compliments our pressure plan alongside Souls/Geist vs the decks we want to be more aggressive against - I.e. Tron, Valakut, etc. In fact, if your meta is more Combo/Control, I'd opt for a 2nd Ally in the side over Elspeth. It's a fantastic card that suits our design and gameplan, especially since we're not a durdly Control deck.
CC is rough on our mana and hasn't been necessary here, but the 4th SV is reasonable.
It took some experience, community feedback and help, more meta analysis, shifting and balancing, but I nailed it.
This 75 is the closest to what I've been trying to achieve with its versatile/adaptable design and gameplan since its inception.
--------------
The only remaining considerations (based on my version) are:
+1 Supreme Verdict (SB) *4th is flex and I prefer 2nd EE since I shaved Blessed Alliance to 2 (Infect, Zooicide, Bogles, and so many more) and have been considering additional Artifact removal. 4th is very good vs Eldrazi, but we are fine vs them.
1 Hero's Downfall/Detention Sphere (MD/SB) *This would be over Anguished Unmaking, but feel good about keeping AU for now.
1-2 Vendilion Clique (MD/SB) *I view Clique as the deck's 4th pseudo-Thoughtseize, but with a body that is able to disrupt and pressure. Now that I have 2 Geist, I don't think I need Clique, but it's always an option. Thoughtseize, Negate, and Esper Charm already cover its role.
1 Disenchant (SB) *Less inclined to because of Anguished Unmaking and 2 Engineered Explosives.
2 Runed Halo (SB) *Always a top option for me.
1-2 Dispel (SB) *The only other counter I'd consider in the side besides Negate (Disdainful Stroke and Flashfreeze being the only exceptions. We want hard counters) but I do prefer Negate for being able to hit more cards we're concerned about.
You're suggesting that Collective Brutality be played without escalate. If examined from that perspective, wouldn't it just be better off as a flex slot? Disfigure if you expect aggro (bonus points for instant speed), Duress if you expect midrange/control/combo (extra love for hitting PWs, artifacts, enchantments, etc).
I love the idea of shredding someone's hand with Esper Charm. I just find it hard to believe that you have the time and resources to do so while simultaneously fending off the pressure of an aggressive deck. How do you manage both?
It's CB's flexibility that is better than just playing a Disfigure or a Duress. It's a flex spot, as I showed above, but I prefer it over 4th IoK (we play Snap) and 3rd TS (since the meta's aggro/midrange to combo/control ratio is 2:1 for the top tiered decks and avg. a top end cmc of 3, so having 3 TS can be rough G1). It's a way to help you mitigate life loss from fetches, shocks, TS, creature/burn damage, etc. that can be combined with BA to bridge you to the late game (i.e. Batterskull). The key to this deck is playing modal spells (cross-performing/multi-functional cards) that are relevant across a variety of different decks. It's the ability to create packages between main and side that allows you to navigate against any MU.
Being able to rip their hand apart and stabilize/pressure requires a feel for the deck and its sequencing/interactions/lines of play. There's a strong balance here of versatility that makes the deck flexible and adaptable against many archetypes. This was one of the toughest parts of designing its concept and selecting the right cards that makes the deck feel like a full 75.
Your aggressive promotion of this deck across the internet has caused me to find see it more than once. Honestly, I like the general concept and most of the build. But a few things stand out.
Collective Brutality seems way underpowered (sorcery speed, weak effects) relative to the cost (card disadvantage). If you're looking for a way to get rid of dead draws, why not just change it to the 4th Serum Visions and get better draws with higher consistency that way?
The current metagame is generally agreed to be highly aggressive. Blessed Alliance is the best (or one of the best) anti-creature spells that this deck could play besides Path. So why only play 2? Especially when you have it listed right next to Esper Charm which, while amazingly good, is EXACTLY the kind of card that should be cut against aggressive decks. -1 Esper Charm, +1 Blessed Alliance seems like a foolproof move that is likely to yield massive returns.
CB has been fantastic vs Burn, even better than BA, but has also been good vs Infect. The card does a lot that we tend to undervalue. The -2/-2 hits dorks, Bob, Ooze, Voice, Blighted, Thalia, Leonin, Merfolk, Viscera, Snap, Guide, Eidolon, etc. - so many which allows u to keep your Paths for mid-late game threats and you don't have to wait until you can fire off Verdict for just a couple small creatures that are causing issues (some don't have to attack to be a problem). You can still bring in the card vs Control and Combo as it's perfectly reasonable to hit CC, Ad Naus, Scapeshift, etc.
I'm already running 3 BA in the 75 (2 main, 1 side), but I also listed the 4th Charm as flex (4th should be in the board vs Midrange, Combo, Control, Tron, etc.). It's also good vs Burn to dump their hand of burn spells and it can even kill Eidolon. I love it vs Infect, Zooicide, Suicide Bloo, Eldrazi, etc. as well. The only aggro MU I don't like it against is Dredge and Affinity as they tend to dump their hand themselves.
1st Place - IQ New Holland, US
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110804
5th Place - IQ Gaithersburg, US
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110824
Simbioide - thank you for the clear explanations. Much appreciate your help answering questions.
Anguished Unmaking is flex, but definitely better than Detention Sphere for us.
Absolutely.
Flex spots for 3-4 FP:
4th Path to Exile
3rd/4th Supreme Verdict (3rd must go in SB)
4th Serum Visions (if you're on 4)
2nd Blessed Alliance (less inclined to remove any, but move 2nd in SB if you do)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor/Batterskull/Anguished Unmaking/Murderous Cut spot
In fact, a 4th sweeper is likely the best option for stabilization against the aggressive meta - preferably *** as Elves seem to be on the rise.
I haven't considered Ajani. Interesting to say the least. Let me know how testing goes.
"Control is a tricky business in Modern. Ali calls on Francesco Amati for a new take on the archetype."
Check out Ali Aintrazi's new article on ET!
I get this a quite a bit, but how we define "good cards" is sometimes predicated on their relevance/context in its respective deck, not necessarily in a vacuum. Just look at Lantern Control.
No other Walker would provide the pressure/value that Narset does in this deck's design and gameplan. There have been skeptics, but you have to experience the deck to understand why she's there and how she functions vs the field with the rest of the deck.
For more Info, I'll be sharing an article I collaborated with Ali Aintrazi covering this deck. It will be out later this week.
Serum Visions serves multiple functions in our deck:
-Consistency (land)
-Digging (answers)
-Filtering (for Narset's +1)
AV just doesn't do any of this for us, which the deck values. Esper Charm is essentially our AV, especially via Rebound, but can be Flashbacked, too.
Leaner & meaner. I cut the fat & went straight to the meat of what we do best. Players can tailor for their meta.
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Concealed Courtyard
2x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
3x Polluted Delta
2x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
3x Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery: 16
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Serum Visions
3x Supreme Verdict
3x Thoughtseize
Instant: 10
2x Blessed Alliance
4x Esper Charm
4x Path to Exile
Planeswalkers: 7
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Gideon Jura
3x Narset Transcendent
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Celestial Purge
2x Collective Brutality
3x Countersquall
1x Disenchant
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Extirpate
3x Geist of Saint Draft
2x Surgical Extraction
Esper Charm is fantastic vs them, especially at their draw step or after they Sanctum of Ugin. You definitely want to keep their hand count low (hopefully put them in top deck) while applying pressure. Narset can apply this pressure, too, by Rebounding Souls, Charm (attacking their hand), and threatening them with her final (shuts off a majority of their deck).
The deck is better post-board with more Thoughtseize, 3 Negate, Extractions, Anguished (which can be Detention Sphere), and Geist.
I'm thinking about lowering the curve and swapping Batterskull for another 4 cmc Walker, one that sort of fulfills its role more efficiently. We're thinking about Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is underwhelming as a stabilizer if you don't have any creatures on the board. It's worse post-Verdict, too, as you can't generate Tokens unless you -2. His final is a little more threatening post-Verdict, though.
Thanks for the feedback. It's actually an area I've been discussing with my team and community. To lower the curve, swapping 2nd Jura for 2nd Ally is what I'd do. Ally can run away with games, gives the deck an aggressive angle that compliments the deck's pressure plan to turn the corner post-disruption (with Souls/Geist), and has a lot of synergy with the rest of the deck. I think we defend well enough that 2nd Jura may not be necessary, but at least 1 should definitely be there, with maybe a 2nd in the board if you're inclined.
Zealous Persecution is sweet! Nice tech, bud.
I haven't considered TiTi, but could be worth testing. Just watch your creature count. I wouldn't go beyond 5 in the main and Snap should remain a 3 of.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is part of the deck's ability to pressure and turn the corner vs Combo/Control (and Tron). Several decks can't handle him, namely Jund, Grixis, and any deck that is Path-less. It also synergizes with Lingering Souls (insane as a top deck and when you Rebound Lingering Souls), stabilizes with bodies (certain Aggro/Midrange decks just fold to it), is a non-creature threat/win-con (good for Narset's +1), and compliments our pressure plan alongside Souls/Geist vs the decks we want to be more aggressive against - I.e. Tron, Valakut, etc. In fact, if your meta is more Combo/Control, I'd opt for a 2nd Ally in the side over Elspeth. It's a fantastic card that suits our design and gameplan, especially since we're not a durdly Control deck.
CC is rough on our mana and hasn't been necessary here, but the 4th SV is reasonable.
OP decklist updated.
Updated: 12/15/16
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-11-16-esper-narset/
It took some experience, community feedback and help, more meta analysis, shifting and balancing, but I nailed it.
This 75 is the closest to what I've been trying to achieve with its versatile/adaptable design and gameplan since its inception.
--------------
The only remaining considerations (based on my version) are:
+1 Supreme Verdict (SB) *4th is flex and I prefer 2nd EE since I shaved Blessed Alliance to 2 (Infect, Zooicide, Bogles, and so many more) and have been considering additional Artifact removal. 4th is very good vs Eldrazi, but we are fine vs them.
1 Hero's Downfall/Detention Sphere (MD/SB) *This would be over Anguished Unmaking, but feel good about keeping AU for now.
1-2 Vendilion Clique (MD/SB) *I view Clique as the deck's 4th pseudo-Thoughtseize, but with a body that is able to disrupt and pressure. Now that I have 2 Geist, I don't think I need Clique, but it's always an option. Thoughtseize, Negate, and Esper Charm already cover its role.
1 Disenchant (SB) *Less inclined to because of Anguished Unmaking and 2 Engineered Explosives.
2 Runed Halo (SB) *Always a top option for me.
1-2 Dispel (SB) *The only other counter I'd consider in the side besides Negate (Disdainful Stroke and Flashfreeze being the only exceptions. We want hard counters) but I do prefer Negate for being able to hit more cards we're concerned about.
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Esper Charm
2 Negate (could be 3, but Cliques shore up their role)
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
Then we have 3 Snap and 3 Narset for value. Narset is also a threat to each archetype.
It's CB's flexibility that is better than just playing a Disfigure or a Duress. It's a flex spot, as I showed above, but I prefer it over 4th IoK (we play Snap) and 3rd TS (since the meta's aggro/midrange to combo/control ratio is 2:1 for the top tiered decks and avg. a top end cmc of 3, so having 3 TS can be rough G1). It's a way to help you mitigate life loss from fetches, shocks, TS, creature/burn damage, etc. that can be combined with BA to bridge you to the late game (i.e. Batterskull). The key to this deck is playing modal spells (cross-performing/multi-functional cards) that are relevant across a variety of different decks. It's the ability to create packages between main and side that allows you to navigate against any MU.
Being able to rip their hand apart and stabilize/pressure requires a feel for the deck and its sequencing/interactions/lines of play. There's a strong balance here of versatility that makes the deck flexible and adaptable against many archetypes. This was one of the toughest parts of designing its concept and selecting the right cards that makes the deck feel like a full 75.
CB has been fantastic vs Burn, even better than BA, but has also been good vs Infect. The card does a lot that we tend to undervalue. The -2/-2 hits dorks, Bob, Ooze, Voice, Blighted, Thalia, Leonin, Merfolk, Viscera, Snap, Guide, Eidolon, etc. - so many which allows u to keep your Paths for mid-late game threats and you don't have to wait until you can fire off Verdict for just a couple small creatures that are causing issues (some don't have to attack to be a problem). You can still bring in the card vs Control and Combo as it's perfectly reasonable to hit CC, Ad Naus, Scapeshift, etc.
I'm already running 3 BA in the 75 (2 main, 1 side), but I also listed the 4th Charm as flex (4th should be in the board vs Midrange, Combo, Control, Tron, etc.). It's also good vs Burn to dump their hand of burn spells and it can even kill Eidolon. I love it vs Infect, Zooicide, Suicide Bloo, Eldrazi, etc. as well. The only aggro MU I don't like it against is Dredge and Affinity as they tend to dump their hand themselves.