I was doing some card searching and stumbled on the surveil mechanic in earlier sets. Taigam's Scheming and Contingency Plan. Surveil 5 for 1U doesn't seem so bad even though it's sorcery speed. I wouldn't be surprised if a reprint of one of these comes out in this set.
2. If I cast any pump spell like Giant Growth targeting the Phantasm, are those counted as counters and thus making it able to attack for that turn only?
I have a feeling this is going to find a nice home in Standard and possibly some Modern play as a Snappy-lite. I do like the Isochron Scepter and Mission Briefing combination to dig and fill graveyard in some Modern brew.
Ok, so I understand now that Invert is until end of turn (not what the card says:frown:). Am I confusing myself with Invent and that you can tutor an instant AND sorcery at the same time? That AND/OR really seems out of place and would really expect it to be OR. Overall, whomever was in charge of this card dropped the ball on the wording.
Prediction: no basics in packs. We'll get fixing in that slot like in guild crash.
This sounds like a good guess.
Agreed. There was a discussion, I think in the general forum a while ago, that they could easily retool the land spot in the pack like the Unstable contraptions. This would help with limited fixing as seen in M19, but I think it should include the uncommon and rare cycles as well. Getting basic lands is not a problem for a beginner. If I was in a need for a lot of basics, I would buy a fat pack.
I was not aware of the 2012 EPA rule for paper mills and agree the timing may be a reason why the changeover in cardstock occurred as stated in Rudy's video. I have some familiarity with pulp chemistry since my Dad worked as an engineer in many paper mills, and I have seen the HUGE rollers and shredded pulp being squeezed into paper. I think they used the Kraft process, and the Black Liquor from the pulping has an awful smell.
I work in an industry that is also heavily regulated by EPA, so I know how new regulations can change the way a company makes a product (i.e. more expensive) or effect the workers. Whatever the old cardstock was, probably used a pulping/bleaching reagent that is either no longer available for use or required far too much investment for the paper mill to continue using. I don't think this will be the last change to the cardstock for WotC.
The new cardstock is obviously not like the old stuff, but they have been experimenting with the coating more recently. If the current cardstock is readily available at their price point, the best hope for players is in the coating to fix the curl. Who knows if WotC actually went through the effort to show people outside of the company the cardstock/coating options? For all we know a more expensive coating could resolve that issue?
We've always had the ability to print a single-double sided card. It requires printing an extra double-sided sheet (most cards have normal Magic backs, which are preprinted en masse prior to sets being printed) of nothing but that card. Doing this has logistical and, more importantly, financial implications, meaning that it's something that has to be important enough to justify doing. Having Core Set 2019 built around Nicol Bolas and his past felt like it was central enough to the set to justify.
I bolded the statement of interest. Does WotC supply the printer with pre-printed cardstock? Or does the chosen printer just pre-print all the card backs for their print run on the specified/supplied cardstock? I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
Has anyone tried running Departed Deckhand? When you have a Drogskol Captain in play it's a 3/3 hexproof virtually unblockable, or am I missing something here? It would not be helpful in a mirror match of course.
It mostly comes down to how much money can the company make and can they afford to take on any issues that come from it. If they started doing masterpieces that would actually be a good first step in the right direction. However, Masterpieces are effectively Collector fodder anyway. Not that I wouldn't love to have a new All Hallow's Eve or The Abyss, but some cards just will never see the light of day again.
This is exactly the issue for WotC/Hasbro. It's entirely plausible that WotC didn't know how to reprint RL cards to maintain net positive in the past. I'm sure their lawyers have advised them of estimated damages long ago, but it is likely to do more harm than good anyway for momentary increase in sales which a good exec would not do. It would be more likely to move that to a digital format to completely avoid the issue and have the cash grab online to maximize margin.
In my view, Legacy/Vintage is cool for me to watch others play with powerful RL cards. I can get into Modern relatively "cheaply" but am fully aware that those cards can go up or down depending on how many times they get reprinted over the years. Even though the article says Modern replaced Extended 7 years ago, in the long term Modern becomes Legacy to newer and established players with no RL to worry about. What I see as a price limiting/sticker shock for some are cards like the Fetch Lands which are ubiquitous in so many decks in Modern now, just like Dual Lands in Legacy. WotC knows this and they will reprint key cards when they see fit to maximize sales of whatever product. I believe WotC originally wanted an Eternal format with no reprint covenants, but poor choices with Chronicles forced them to make the RL to save the game which they now regret.
It wouldn't be the first time I have experienced C-level execs say "we will not do..." and then literally the next month they do what they said they wouldn't do. It's amazing their resolve to keep people motivated to basically show no change in course until a change is formally announced.
I am NOT saying this is what is happening at WotC, but corporate execs do not care about their peons and let everyone know their plans at all times. It's need-to-know basis. They would not let things like this to leak out into public until it is meant to be public knowledge. They tell the minimum amount of people and if someone blabs, it's their butt on the line. The two accounts of denial from WotC are legit IMO. Card leaks are completely separate from this because that is third party, and stuff like that happens and is why contracts and courts exist.
In a dystopian world: WotC chief says: "Bob we need to make more money because Hasbro is breathing down our necks.
Bob: Ok, we can resume Masterpieces because they increased booster sales.
WC: Great! what cards should be put in.
Bob: Well we run out of ideas on that one, since people didn't care for the last set of Masterpieces/Inventions we put in there.
WC: What cards are the "community" crying for.
Bob: Reserve List cards. They claim they can't play Legacy because they don't have the access to the cards at a lower price point, but most want them for Commander which we just bent them over on. My bad. The Masterpiece Counterspell is hovering around $90, Beta ~$550, and all others are $1. I'm pretty sure people have Counterspell, but the original is not a buck so maybe the collectors we promised won't sue us if we changed our policy again. They won't trust us anymore.
WC: Hmm. I like money Bob. The older collectors will sue us, but the newer players who never played in the 90s will be over joyed and shower us in cold hard cash just for the opportunity to crack one open on our current cardstock. I'll be swimming in it like Scrooge McDuck. Make it happen, but tell Maro to keep his mouth shut or he's fired."
IF...and I mean a huge if this is real, I think it would be a clear sign that WotC is desperate for increased sealed product sales. If they really wanted to walk the fine line on the RL, the Masterpiece route seems like a logical tactic to keep the numbers low and not tank all RL cards. I'm sure certain larger collectors will file suit, but Hasbro has the resources to take it to court. Maro admitted on Blogatog that Imperial Recruiter was mythic because of scarcity, so with that logic RL cards should be super mythic aka Masterpieces. What was the pull rate in the past, 1-2 per case? They could honestly put a single cycle per set and sales would go through the roof. I don't think the highly sought after ABU cards would take a big hit, but I still think the original printings will always have a higher value for collectability. The secondary market/collectors will determine what that value is.
My only gripe is that there isn’t a candelabra in the art.
Yes there is, although it's holding 2 candles instead of the original Candelabra of Tawnos. I assume a list of his known inventions were mentioned in the art description
Bountiful harvest actually has a fairly good solution to the problem presented by lotus vale / scorched ruins. Those cards needed rather clumsy errata because lands have the problem that you can tap them for mana before their ETB abilities resolve and float that mana, then sacrifice them, making them effectively a ritual. That was the entire basis for the amulet bloom deck abusing the ravnica karoo lands that were supposed to be limited by entering tapped. But by producing mana used a linked ability, you've actually made a template where no weird replacement effect is necessary, because tapping the land for mana before any land is sacrificed would add no mana since there's no linked card. I think you've got a lot of potential in such a template.
But I think you need to make two important changes. For one, the mana acceleration from getting +1 mana by floating a land would be to strong for almost every format, but you can easily fix that by making it only sacrifice an untapped land. Same thing as lotus vale. But for tracking issues, you probably want this to exile the land instead of sacrificing it. There's currently no precedent for permanently tracking a sacrificed card like that afaik, but plenty of cards exile something and 'remember' it. Especially considering how easy it is to move a sacrificed land out of your graveyard. So I'd recommend something like "When ~ enters the battlefield, exile an untapped land you control". Then there's also still the balance issue of whether its too strong. Being able to go 4 mana on turn 2 ponza-style with just an arbor elf and your normal lands, no extra utopia sprawl required- that might be too much.
Thanks for the input. I didn't even know of the lotus vale errata issue, good to know for the future and cool that this type of template could be useful. Your other two points, were the same two points I was debating when I was writing the post. I actually deleted untapped, and felt guilty of doing that. I knew you could use this with Crucible of Worlds to replay a land you just sacrificed the previous turn. It was later in the evening when I thought remembering what colors are produced would be hard. I 100% agree that exiling would be the preferred zone for that land.
My rationale for deleting untapped, was that for a typical green ramp deck your first 2 turns play out: 1)Play Forest, then mana dork/arbor elf 2)Second land, and then you can cast up to a 3CMC spell. If you used Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf then 4CMC (total 4 cards needed) with 2 lands remaining in play that create 3 mana total each turn thereafter. Any other non-ramp deck would have 2 available mana on turn 2 if you exclude other sources like Simian Spirit Guide. The idea was to recreate that ramp style in the other colors, which may be overpowered, but at the cost of losing a land in play putting you more at risk of being disrupted by an early Stone Rain or Field of Ruin on turn 3 or 4. Even though you get a temporary boost on turn 2, that extra land ramp is gone on turn 3. If you used Arbor Elf, you can not untap Bountiful Harvest on your turn 3 since it's not a Forest to create 4 mana with one land, that would be broken for sure.
I edited this section in to show the land mana curve with tapped and untapped land sacrifice.
Mana pool from lands only on turns 1-4: 1-2-3-4
Mana pool from lands with turn 2 Bountiful Harvest saccing tapped land: 1-3-3-4
Mana pool from lands with turn 2 Bountiful Harvest saccing untapped land: 1-2-3-4
Green ramp and probably mono Red aggro may see a benefit to sacrifice a tapped land. I agree that exiling the sacrificed land would be the minimum change I would do to this card to satisfy the mana tracking and stop any land coming back from graveyard with Crucible like cards. I will need to evaluate the sac untapped land some more, but you offer good points. Thanks!
I was just thinking about a single land that could be used for mana fixing, but utilizing a land sacrifice upon ETB and not tapped.
Bountiful Harvest
Land (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a land you control. :Add two mana of any combination the sacrificed land could produce. (B produces BB. B or G produces BB, BG, or GG.)
This is the first card I ever conceived of in this forum, so apologies if this is similar to someone else. I like the sacrifice mechanic as it can enable certain strategies, and I think limiting the mana production to what is sacrificed lowers the likely hood of it being too overpowered. Any painland or rainbow land would make the most use of the land in multi-colored decks. [Think, sac a City of Brass on turn 2 to then create two of any color on turn 2. Yes you can produce 3 mana on turn 2.] In the Modern meta, I can see people playing a Fetch-to-Shockland; then turn 2 float 1 mana and sac when this is played, tap to add 2 more colored mana to play whatever 3CMC spell (4CMC if a mana dork is in play). They would only have the single land in play afterwards and taken 3 damage so far. I think there is enough land hate that this is not format warping. What do people think?
Paper sets will be here for the foreseeable future before they even consider completely taking a very bold step away from print media. I think their printing/distribution model will change before that to save $$, and if Rudy is actually telling the truth maybe they are starting to do that? If they figure out they don't need to print as much product upfront to satisfy release day and GP events, they would cut initial production prior to switching to on-demand. Slowing the release of the product to distributors may create artificial demand initially, but if the whole-sale price doesn't change, then I don't see how that is beneficial to WotC if nothing else changed in the supply chain? Maybe it is a slower release of product to compensate for the printing of the next run, just so they don't sit on product to sell to distributors? Supply chain management is a big deal to any corporation and are always trying to find ways to optimize.
Honestly, I didn't think MtG would be around after 25 years with their ups and downs, and I hope it lasts another 25.
1. If I cast Mission Briefing, with Surveil 2, does that give Thoughtbound Phantasm two +1/+1 counters or just one?
2. If I cast any pump spell like Giant Growth targeting the Phantasm, are those counted as counters and thus making it able to attack for that turn only?
Agreed. There was a discussion, I think in the general forum a while ago, that they could easily retool the land spot in the pack like the Unstable contraptions. This would help with limited fixing as seen in M19, but I think it should include the uncommon and rare cycles as well. Getting basic lands is not a problem for a beginner. If I was in a need for a lot of basics, I would buy a fat pack.
I work in an industry that is also heavily regulated by EPA, so I know how new regulations can change the way a company makes a product (i.e. more expensive) or effect the workers. Whatever the old cardstock was, probably used a pulping/bleaching reagent that is either no longer available for use or required far too much investment for the paper mill to continue using. I don't think this will be the last change to the cardstock for WotC.
The new cardstock is obviously not like the old stuff, but they have been experimenting with the coating more recently. If the current cardstock is readily available at their price point, the best hope for players is in the coating to fix the curl. Who knows if WotC actually went through the effort to show people outside of the company the cardstock/coating options? For all we know a more expensive coating could resolve that issue?
I bolded the statement of interest. Does WotC supply the printer with pre-printed cardstock? Or does the chosen printer just pre-print all the card backs for their print run on the specified/supplied cardstock? I'm just curious if/when the current cardstock is all used up, maybe a quality change could be done.
This is exactly the issue for WotC/Hasbro. It's entirely plausible that WotC didn't know how to reprint RL cards to maintain net positive in the past. I'm sure their lawyers have advised them of estimated damages long ago, but it is likely to do more harm than good anyway for momentary increase in sales which a good exec would not do. It would be more likely to move that to a digital format to completely avoid the issue and have the cash grab online to maximize margin.
In my view, Legacy/Vintage is cool for me to watch others play with powerful RL cards. I can get into Modern relatively "cheaply" but am fully aware that those cards can go up or down depending on how many times they get reprinted over the years. Even though the article says Modern replaced Extended 7 years ago, in the long term Modern becomes Legacy to newer and established players with no RL to worry about. What I see as a price limiting/sticker shock for some are cards like the Fetch Lands which are ubiquitous in so many decks in Modern now, just like Dual Lands in Legacy. WotC knows this and they will reprint key cards when they see fit to maximize sales of whatever product. I believe WotC originally wanted an Eternal format with no reprint covenants, but poor choices with Chronicles forced them to make the RL to save the game which they now regret.
I am NOT saying this is what is happening at WotC, but corporate execs do not care about their peons and let everyone know their plans at all times. It's need-to-know basis. They would not let things like this to leak out into public until it is meant to be public knowledge. They tell the minimum amount of people and if someone blabs, it's their butt on the line. The two accounts of denial from WotC are legit IMO. Card leaks are completely separate from this because that is third party, and stuff like that happens and is why contracts and courts exist.
In a dystopian world: WotC chief says: "Bob we need to make more money because Hasbro is breathing down our necks.
Bob: Ok, we can resume Masterpieces because they increased booster sales.
WC: Great! what cards should be put in.
Bob: Well we run out of ideas on that one, since people didn't care for the last set of Masterpieces/Inventions we put in there.
WC: What cards are the "community" crying for.
Bob: Reserve List cards. They claim they can't play Legacy because they don't have the access to the cards at a lower price point, but most want them for Commander which we just bent them over on. My bad. The Masterpiece Counterspell is hovering around $90, Beta ~$550, and all others are $1. I'm pretty sure people have Counterspell, but the original is not a buck so maybe the collectors we promised won't sue us if we changed our policy again. They won't trust us anymore.
WC: Hmm. I like money Bob. The older collectors will sue us, but the newer players who never played in the 90s will be over joyed and shower us in cold hard cash just for the opportunity to crack one open on our current cardstock. I'll be swimming in it like Scrooge McDuck. Make it happen, but tell Maro to keep his mouth shut or he's fired."
Yes there is, although it's holding 2 candles instead of the original Candelabra of Tawnos. I assume a list of his known inventions were mentioned in the art description
Thanks for the input. I didn't even know of the lotus vale errata issue, good to know for the future and cool that this type of template could be useful. Your other two points, were the same two points I was debating when I was writing the post. I actually deleted untapped, and felt guilty of doing that. I knew you could use this with Crucible of Worlds to replay a land you just sacrificed the previous turn. It was later in the evening when I thought remembering what colors are produced would be hard. I 100% agree that exiling would be the preferred zone for that land.
My rationale for deleting untapped, was that for a typical green ramp deck your first 2 turns play out: 1)Play Forest, then mana dork/arbor elf 2)Second land, and then you can cast up to a 3CMC spell. If you used Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf then 4CMC (total 4 cards needed) with 2 lands remaining in play that create 3 mana total each turn thereafter. Any other non-ramp deck would have 2 available mana on turn 2 if you exclude other sources like Simian Spirit Guide. The idea was to recreate that ramp style in the other colors, which may be overpowered, but at the cost of losing a land in play putting you more at risk of being disrupted by an early Stone Rain or Field of Ruin on turn 3 or 4. Even though you get a temporary boost on turn 2, that extra land ramp is gone on turn 3. If you used Arbor Elf, you can not untap Bountiful Harvest on your turn 3 since it's not a Forest to create 4 mana with one land, that would be broken for sure.
I edited this section in to show the land mana curve with tapped and untapped land sacrifice.
Mana pool from lands only on turns 1-4: 1-2-3-4
Mana pool from lands with turn 2 Bountiful Harvest saccing tapped land: 1-3-3-4
Mana pool from lands with turn 2 Bountiful Harvest saccing untapped land: 1-2-3-4
Green ramp and probably mono Red aggro may see a benefit to sacrifice a tapped land. I agree that exiling the sacrificed land would be the minimum change I would do to this card to satisfy the mana tracking and stop any land coming back from graveyard with Crucible like cards. I will need to evaluate the sac untapped land some more, but you offer good points. Thanks!
Bountiful Harvest
Land (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a land you control.
This is the first card I ever conceived of in this forum, so apologies if this is similar to someone else. I like the sacrifice mechanic as it can enable certain strategies, and I think limiting the mana production to what is sacrificed lowers the likely hood of it being too overpowered. Any painland or rainbow land would make the most use of the land in multi-colored decks. [Think, sac a City of Brass on turn 2 to then create two of any color on turn 2. Yes you can produce 3 mana on turn 2.] In the Modern meta, I can see people playing a Fetch-to-Shockland; then turn 2 float 1 mana and sac when this is played, tap to add 2 more colored mana to play whatever 3CMC spell (4CMC if a mana dork is in play). They would only have the single land in play afterwards and taken 3 damage so far. I think there is enough land hate that this is not format warping. What do people think?
Honestly, I didn't think MtG would be around after 25 years with their ups and downs, and I hope it lasts another 25.