I don’t think we will see the typical style planeswalker + - abilities for all. I gather the uncommon and maybe rares will work like Sagas but still having loyalty counters that are removed until they lose their spark and turn into just legendary creatures.
Uncommon Tibalt 1R
When ~ comes into play and at the beginning of combat, remove a loyalty counter. Deal 1 damage to any target. Loyalty 2. When 0, transform into a 2/1 legendary creature with haste.
Something like "Fading" from Nemesis so there is a clock on Planeswalkers so they don’t linger very long on the board. It would be flavorful. Flipping or create a token of themselves, what ever is cheaper for WotC I suppose.
There are plenty of nonrare and downshiftable rares from pre-8th edition that are either utility cards or good cards for not just limited, but also constructed. Such as Deep Analysis (which I don't think will appear, it's a wee bit to powerful for modern), Werebear (much more likely), and Exile (also fairly likely), just to name a few.
I fully expect the commons and uncommons to contain a number of much needed reprints for pauper that would not warp modern, such as Oubliette. I also expect that a few of the commons and uncommons have been culled from the Portal sets, a few of those creatures and sorceries are quite powerful for their cost, and some of them could help certain constructed strategies to reach a higher tier and thus provide for a more varied constructed environment. There are a lot of potential from the early sets of magic for the lower rarities, there are several of the Mirage charms I would not mind seeing again.
Thats a good point to make. There is likely a handful of impactful Legacy Commons and potential downshifts to common from the early sets that will be welcomed for Pauper, but nothing is coming to my mind that may make a huge impact in Modern (other than Hymn to Tourach which was last seen at Uncommon). I like what Oubliette does and wonder if this will find it's way in a devotion deck in Modern? Rather than what old prints will impact Modern, it's really what downshifts will impact Pauper from this set. I'm sure there are many junk uncommon and rares from pre-8th, that if shifted to common would be playable in Pauper.
Oh that would indeed be cool, I mean it is clear that there will be not fetch land reprints, but they could really introduce more budget fetches in general.
Yeah, at this point I'll take any Uncommon cycle to help mana fix multicolor budget Modern whether a Mirage fetch or wedge color from Planeshift. There is always a possibility they create a new land cycle.
They have confirmed that with the exception of basic lands all cards in Modern Horizons will be new to modern.
MH1 has no reprints. Will MH2?
Did they take all reprints off the table for this product entirely? I know we don't know if they'll be doing an MH2, but it seems really short sighted for this to either just be a one time dump or to take reprints off the table entirely.
My guess is Core 2020 will continue to have a few key Modern reprints, not LotV of course, like how Core 2019 had Crucible of Worlds and Scapeshift. The Fetch cycles are the biggest problem in my mind since they are ubiquitous foundation to any multicolor deck. How and when they do is the biggest question mark?
I’ve heard that there are no reprints of cards that are already in modern. Ergo, no zendikar fetches. Sorry.
I’m personally hoping for fun stuff like random tribal pieces (rotlung reanimator, sparksmith, assembled slivers, etc)
So a set containing 200+ new cards just for Modern? That's really a stretch. I don't think that'll be the case; that only happens with Standard.
Well all will be Modern legal, doesn't mean it will be useful in Modern. Maro somewhere said there is stuff for Commander, Modern, and Pauper. Since they extensively tested Legacy only cards with current Modern, I would assume they carefully picked cards to answer an existing "problem", enable new deck strategies, or boost weaker tiered decks.
For Pauper, I assume Oubliette will be in here. I wonder what downgrades they would consider, since there are usually a handful.
we're doing away with the masters product, so here's another master's product.
i'm not entirely sure how i feel about this. this will probably end up being over priced and limited in print run, which is frustrating.
it will probably have 1-2 new cards that everyone wants for legacy, or modern, and a few cards for edh that all of those players want too... but the price and the print run will jack up the price of singles, especially over time. that's frustrating.
it might have some decent reprints, which will drop in value as a result, and that's frustrating too.
i like the new serra card and what she implies, i don't like how expensive and difficult to get it will inevitably be.
i suppose on the whole, i'm entirely frustrated with this product.
I agree that from how they are describing it, it feels like another Master set but with a different goal of adding new cards to Modern instead of "best-of Modern reprints".
I really doubt they're looking to introduce 500+ cards to modern. How many cards are legacy fringe even or realistically modern fringe that aren't already legal in modern? Creatures, especially, have seen a massive power boost since 8th edition and I don't know if there's a single creature from pre modern that's playable, leaving a few choice selections from supplemental products. I also doubt they're doing stax stuff. They might do wasteland or force, but I'm pretty sure a dedicated lockout deck is out of the question. There's also reserved list which takes out a chunk of the not modern legal as well. I also don't see black rituals and lotus petal coming. They don't seem to be too hot on storm or dredge being better. So, realistically, are there even 50 cards that aren't modern legal that might be tolerable to fun to reprint into modern? Goblins got most of their toys already. It also seems like people's lists are almost exclusively instant/sorcery.
WotC can add 500+ cards to Modern from past sets if they want to...it doesn't mean they are all constructed playable, just like every set they create. I did search Scryfall for legal Legacy cards that are not Modern legal and not on the Reserved list (-legal:modern legal:legacy -is:reserved) to give ~5400 cards. If you take out creatures and lands you end up with ~2500 cards in the pool. You are right that there are probably a handful that would make an immediate impact on Modern if they were reprinted today. I'm sure they had to playtest the Legacy cards next to the Modern cards to see what worked well. That sounds familiar right?
This set was originally conceived a couple years ago and the final cards were probably finalized sometime 4Q18. If their desire was to make money, help people get into Modern through recent sets, and give access to long out of print/expensive cards in the process...wouldn't it be a surprise that some of the cards from the other Iconic, Eternal, A25, and Ultimate sets that were NOT modern playable then become playable in Modern eventually? (-legal:modern legal:legacy (set:uma OR set:a25 OR set:ima OR set:ema) [233 cards]. The numbers are kind of crazy that if you really wanted to be uber cheap you print that list with modifications for draft purposes plus add in some original cards to make 254. Legacy legal ONLY breakdown EMA-IMA-A25-UMA Rarity: 17M, 61R, 81U, 75C. [W30, U42, B42, R35, G38, M22, A14, L10] I'm not saying they are doing this, but it's low hanging fruit since you just need to change the set symbol. They essentially piloted post-Horizon Modern over the last year to see how some powerful Legacy cards interacted with Modern legal cards.
I'm surprised that no one has really mentioned that this has the potential to bring about a permanent sea change in the Modern metagame. The format could become unrecognizable overnight. That's not to say that it will be bad necessarily, but there is a chance it could break Modern in half. In one year, I wonder how many cards from this set will be on the ban list...
I think everyone took it as a given that clearly adding cards that are currently only in legacy or are new specially for modern would lead to huge changes in the look of modern but after so many years it will be amazing to see the news decks. Standard sets rarely have more than a handful of cards that make it in modern and most end up as 1 ofs or sideboard cards or tier 2/3 cards. A set with 254 cards and none are reprints of current modern sets means a potential 254 cards that can see play. Realistically there will be plenty of filler but you've got to imagine we're talking 50+ potential new to modern cards that directly affect decks or make new top tier decks.
At first I did not think of the metagame implications until this morning, and I do think it's the best for Modern's future. I very much like the idea that some of the top decks could potentially be weakened by either a targeted reprint or new card creation that is too powerful for Standard. I also would not be surprised if certain high priced Modern cards could drop in price because they won't be played as much because of the change in meta. In addition, currently "cheap" cards from Legacy to be reprinted into Modern could see a price bump, but that would likely be only select cards. Wishing for Worldly Tutor and it's ilk, sorry Vampiric Tutor you're banned in Legacy.
What does this mean for Legacy? Could this type of non-Modern cards only reprint be the answer to how to correct for the Reserved List and still be a fun non-rotational paper format that is more accessible? If we assume around 200 new-to-Modern (NTM) reprints this year, over a course of a few years you could potentially bring in ~500 NTM reprints into the format from the past that are not busted.
So the mothersite says $6.99 a pack for Magic Online packs. Should we assume this to be the same price (approx.) for physical packs as well???
I'm also looking forward to the trickle down effect for Pauper. New Modern commons that may have an impact in Pauper. Sounds interesting.
If it's not $3.99 a pack, it's just Modern Masters with a different name. Yay.
Pretty much. I like that it's 36/box even if it's 6.99/pack that's 252 which is right in line of what all the other Master sets (except Ultimate) were roughly priced at. Also, no auto include for foils but I assume foils are randomly inserted still.
There are 5426 cards legal in legacy but not modern that meet their basic reprint criteria. Could this be the set Oubliette gets its teased reprint? Maybe by avoiding standard they can provide better answers to some powerful decks. I do feel the Mirage fetches are likely to be printed as an uncommon cycle or maybe some other obscure land cycle to help color fixing. 3 months to build wish lists.
If it's still reprints or even mostly reprints, I don't see how this would be any different from the other products they have produced unless they change the boosters to something else. Maybe something like a Tournament Pack would come back and you play with a seeded pack of 75 cards instead of booster drafting?
I wonder if the promo will be like the ones from the pre-release kits? You get a random rare or mythic card that has some sort of identifier to make it standout from a normal foil rare or mythic (be that a stamp of some kind, or maybe the set symbol set behind the card text?). The set symbol behind the card text would likely make these cards very popular, which would spur on a lot of sales.
Oh I'm sure all these changes were meant to spur sales, especially on a Coreset. I think the decrease in lands to get more foil lands will be welcomed by many people who collect or bling out their decks, and I hope that continues forward. The promo I feel will be a lottery of course and that alone could jack up the price. I hope the price point doesn't swing north of 40USD because of the promo inclusion.
I've been liking the bundles of late, especially with foil lands recently. My only gripe is that I wish the box closed securely like a BCW box. The ten packs and a playset of uncommons fit into the current box nicely though.
Uncommon Tibalt 1R
When ~ comes into play and at the beginning of combat, remove a loyalty counter. Deal 1 damage to any target. Loyalty 2. When 0, transform into a 2/1 legendary creature with haste.
Something like "Fading" from Nemesis so there is a clock on Planeswalkers so they don’t linger very long on the board. It would be flavorful. Flipping or create a token of themselves, what ever is cheaper for WotC I suppose.
Thats a good point to make. There is likely a handful of impactful Legacy Commons and potential downshifts to common from the early sets that will be welcomed for Pauper, but nothing is coming to my mind that may make a huge impact in Modern (other than Hymn to Tourach which was last seen at Uncommon). I like what Oubliette does and wonder if this will find it's way in a devotion deck in Modern? Rather than what old prints will impact Modern, it's really what downshifts will impact Pauper from this set. I'm sure there are many junk uncommon and rares from pre-8th, that if shifted to common would be playable in Pauper.
Yeah, at this point I'll take any Uncommon cycle to help mana fix multicolor budget Modern whether a Mirage fetch or wedge color from Planeshift. There is always a possibility they create a new land cycle.
My guess is Core 2020 will continue to have a few key Modern reprints, not LotV of course, like how Core 2019 had Crucible of Worlds and Scapeshift. The Fetch cycles are the biggest problem in my mind since they are ubiquitous foundation to any multicolor deck. How and when they do is the biggest question mark?
Well all will be Modern legal, doesn't mean it will be useful in Modern. Maro somewhere said there is stuff for Commander, Modern, and Pauper. Since they extensively tested Legacy only cards with current Modern, I would assume they carefully picked cards to answer an existing "problem", enable new deck strategies, or boost weaker tiered decks.
For Pauper, I assume Oubliette will be in here. I wonder what downgrades they would consider, since there are usually a handful.
According to MaRo...http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183130226138/will-modern-horizons-be-a-limited-print-run-or it's not a limited print run, so that's good and a 36 pack box too! I think we all hope this keeps the price down.
I agree that from how they are describing it, it feels like another Master set but with a different goal of adding new cards to Modern instead of "best-of Modern reprints".
WotC can add 500+ cards to Modern from past sets if they want to...it doesn't mean they are all constructed playable, just like every set they create. I did search Scryfall for legal Legacy cards that are not Modern legal and not on the Reserved list (-legal:modern legal:legacy -is:reserved) to give ~5400 cards. If you take out creatures and lands you end up with ~2500 cards in the pool. You are right that there are probably a handful that would make an immediate impact on Modern if they were reprinted today. I'm sure they had to playtest the Legacy cards next to the Modern cards to see what worked well. That sounds familiar right?
This set was originally conceived a couple years ago and the final cards were probably finalized sometime 4Q18. If their desire was to make money, help people get into Modern through recent sets, and give access to long out of print/expensive cards in the process...wouldn't it be a surprise that some of the cards from the other Iconic, Eternal, A25, and Ultimate sets that were NOT modern playable then become playable in Modern eventually? (-legal:modern legal:legacy (set:uma OR set:a25 OR set:ima OR set:ema) [233 cards]. The numbers are kind of crazy that if you really wanted to be uber cheap you print that list with modifications for draft purposes plus add in some original cards to make 254. Legacy legal ONLY breakdown EMA-IMA-A25-UMA Rarity: 17M, 61R, 81U, 75C. [W30, U42, B42, R35, G38, M22, A14, L10] I'm not saying they are doing this, but it's low hanging fruit since you just need to change the set symbol. They essentially piloted post-Horizon Modern over the last year to see how some powerful Legacy cards interacted with Modern legal cards.
At first I did not think of the metagame implications until this morning, and I do think it's the best for Modern's future. I very much like the idea that some of the top decks could potentially be weakened by either a targeted reprint or new card creation that is too powerful for Standard. I also would not be surprised if certain high priced Modern cards could drop in price because they won't be played as much because of the change in meta. In addition, currently "cheap" cards from Legacy to be reprinted into Modern could see a price bump, but that would likely be only select cards. Wishing for Worldly Tutor and it's ilk, sorry Vampiric Tutor you're banned in Legacy.
What does this mean for Legacy? Could this type of non-Modern cards only reprint be the answer to how to correct for the Reserved List and still be a fun non-rotational paper format that is more accessible? If we assume around 200 new-to-Modern (NTM) reprints this year, over a course of a few years you could potentially bring in ~500 NTM reprints into the format from the past that are not busted.
Pretty much. I like that it's 36/box even if it's 6.99/pack that's 252 which is right in line of what all the other Master sets (except Ultimate) were roughly priced at. Also, no auto include for foils but I assume foils are randomly inserted still.
There are 5426 cards legal in legacy but not modern that meet their basic reprint criteria. Could this be the set Oubliette gets its teased reprint? Maybe by avoiding standard they can provide better answers to some powerful decks. I do feel the Mirage fetches are likely to be printed as an uncommon cycle or maybe some other obscure land cycle to help color fixing. 3 months to build wish lists.
Oh I'm sure all these changes were meant to spur sales, especially on a Coreset. I think the decrease in lands to get more foil lands will be welcomed by many people who collect or bling out their decks, and I hope that continues forward. The promo I feel will be a lottery of course and that alone could jack up the price. I hope the price point doesn't swing north of 40USD because of the promo inclusion.
There is still today (Friday) and next week. I'm curious what the new twist in Core 2020 is?