Maniospas, you make interesting observations. I'll address them in order.
a) Regarding Synod Sanctum over Mortarpod: I think this is a really clever trick, but it is pretty mana intensive. By the time you can pull this off, you probably have a dominant board presence courtesy of Titan and Emeria anyway; I doubt a bit more removal will matter at this point. Mortarpod has other utility, and does so earlier, which is its main perk. Still, I don't run this either. It feels superfluous.
b) Regarding Mind Stone: This is pretty good, and something I toyed with initially. I like this better than using Spellbombs for later card drawing. I eventually dropped it because (A) recurring Hussars is better, and (B) it didn't fit the curve well: I have a lot of great 2cc and 3cc cards, so its questionable if missing those drops is worth an early Wrath. Still, it's certainly something worth considering.
c) Regarding Eldrazi Processors: These are really powerful with Flickerwisp, I just wonder if it's win-more.
d) Regarding Ghostly Flickers: Interesting call. I had good results using Restoration Angel instead, once a Flickerwisp was on the table. It's a strong creature regardless, and can pull many of the same tricks.
While I'm not in a position to talk from experience playing Skred Red, I have a hunch that Parallectric Feedback isn't going to be that good, here. The reason is that it's a turn 3 play (at earliest) which doesn't help the board state.
Against aggro-Eldrazi, this doesn't help you stabilize. If you're lucky enough to do 5 against a Reality Smasher, you're still getting hit for as much if not more, and your relative board state has deteriorated. It might help to close the game if you hit one of the big guys, but don't PWs and Dragons close things pretty fast too? Against other Eldrazi, it might be better. Regardless, there's indication that this won't be such a problem in few weeks.
For RG-Tron, this might help against a turn 4 Karn (or turn 3, if we're on the play and have a mana rock). But still, they have Karn, we probably lack a creature or PW to threaten them, and so Karn starts taking threats out of our hand. Versus, if Karn need to immediately remove a Dragon or Koth, he's now in Bolt range at least. It is pretty good versus Emerakul. Against U-Tron, they're fine playing slower and will just wait until they can counter simultaneously as cast their threat, and we're giving them time by holding back mana for this. Still, mana denial beats this in all cases.
I mean, I don't have a lot of experience with Skred Red, but I can't imagine being very scared of that card from my experience playing Tron. I'd be more scared of the guy packing additional land destruction.
Well, 3 Koth just got sent my way, so I'm in luck! One to go.
Speaking of which, I notice some people running 3 these days. Is there a particular reason? Should I consider replacing the 4th with a Chandra, Pyromaster; Thunderbreak Regent, or Pia and Kiran?
I run 25 land, plus 3 Hussar and 4 Walls. The more cantrips or supplemental mana/search (eg: Eye, Skyspawner) you play, the lower you can take it. Don't recommend less than 23, though.
Swords are an interesting choice in that they let you switch to beatdown. That can help in some matchups. Still, it costs 5 mana, and potentially more in the face of good removal. That much mana could get you another Blade Splicer plus cantrip or something. Worth considering the tradeoff.
I'd rather something that won't either get chump blocked all day, avoids removal, or creates a winning board state even if he is chump blocked or removed still. Omnath doesn't do that, so I'd rather play another big-mana threat.
I'm not sure I'm the best person to give advice on the main: I tried a bit of "Toolbox" devotion but switched back to a "Traditional" build shortly after. Something to keep in mind is that you seem to be running a hybrid Walker/Toolbox build. There have been a bunch of discussions about that lately and whether it's better to focus on one or the other.
One thing I CAN say is that a white SB splash will solve all your problematic matchups. Mark of Asylum answers burn-based removal. Rule of Law answers storm decks. And you also get access to PtE for the occassions you want your own removal (you didn't mention any, but they may happen).
I think we're becoming too focused on "being focused." The fact that around 16-24 of our cards are associated with ramping means that if we have too few win conditions, we risk drawing dead. Thankfully, we have an answer to this problem and it's the very reason the Traditional build still exists: unless you are specifically a PW-build or a Curio-build, you can largely throw any number of win conditions around the core. The Traditional list packs 4 Primal Command, 3 Genesis Wave, and 3 Primeval Titan [plus the 4 Garruk]. None of that is "focused" per-se, but it works for the reason that it saturates the opponent's answers and they all require a different type of answer.
So yes, if you're playing Curio, or Planeswalkers, or Toolbox, or the like, you need a lot of focus around a single game style. But for most builds, they probably share more in common with the Traditional list in that the more varied and numerous their win conditions, the better they'll do.
On a sadder note, I'm not sure we'll ever be tier 1. We don't really have the consistently blinding speed or early disruption that is typically required. However, we do have what it takes to be solidly tier 2 which, in my opinion, is preferable: you get a lot less hate that way, and have a decent shot against a majority of the field. Also, wins just feel all the better as an underdog.
While I have not played with Eldrazi Skyspawner, I'd definitely prefer him to Eye as he is both potentially help with ramping and a decent clock in himself. I don't play either, as I find other 3-drops better. That said, it's not awful, and I can see it making the cut in some builds (just not mine).
As far as countermagic: it's the least useful part of my build, but when it's used, I'm REALLY glad I have it. I'm considering moving from Swan Song to Negate just for certain edge cases. Nevermore is good in the SB too, and fills a similar purpose.
Thanks everyone. I took the list in my original post, -4 Coldsteel Heart, -1 Pyroclasm, +1 SC Mountain, +4 Magma Jet, and threw it into my PucaTrade wants. Hopefully I end up with a deck in the next few weeks!
Edit--Update: all except the Koths are on their way. Hooray! May be playing Avalanche Riders until then.
Petros:
I find the deck fun because it plays a good straight creature game, but has the ability to also play control or combo, and has a half dozen ways to win so no two games are the same. I also almost always feel as if I have some chance to win.
Steven:
This is not the most consistent or reliable deck, nor is it the most powerful or forgiving. This is a high barrier to entry psychologically, I think. It was hard for me to adapt from my blue-mage mentality. That said, everyone is playing cards like GQ to kill Eldrazi. While GQ is, at best, mediocre against Eldrazi, it's great against us, so we're incidental casualties.
It's a Vindicate with a body IF it hits at the same time as Flickerwisp. It's a Vindicate with Detention Sphere IF the sphere is only holding 1 target that you're worried about reentering play AND you have a Flickerwisp handy to reset the Sphere.
In other words, it feels too conditional, even before factoring in the effect on the mana base. If you want your Flickerwisp-repeatable Vindicate for 6-mana in one turn, might as well spend the seventh for Spine.
I've always liked Mind Stone, and despite the fact that CsH is a Snow permanent, that will do less than cycling. Still, I don't even know that any of our 4cc plays on turn 3 will impact the board immediately enough to be worth it over a kill spell on turn 2. The two I'd like are Mizzium Mortars and Magma Jet. As much as I like Mortars, Skred is probably enough kill for big-guys (once Eldrazi decline), while Scrying Sheets can smooth the draws. Since I want to make my first 4-5 mana on time, that means either 24 land, 22 land and 4 rocks, or 23 lands and 4 cantrip/scry?
I don't know what the border is for "big Skred," but I'm guessing it's at 6cc (Flamecaller or Titan). I do like the idea of playing a Dragon, and PtE is more prolific here than Terminate (though I think Terminate is bad news for all our options). Thundermaw and Thunderbreak seem... underwhelming, I guess. I don't see when I'd prefer either to Stormbreath.
Definitely keeping Reckoner. Though that hints I should use more SC Mountains. Goblin Dark-Dwellers is... actually really good, particularly in my build, I think. I may want two copies over the 5th and 6th Dragon. Pia and Kiran are interesting as well on paper but, aside from providing some tokens to sack, are they really that good (particularly if the build omits mana rocks)?
Thinking about modifying the above list with -4 Coldsteel Heart, -2 Thunderbreak Regent, -1 Pyroclasm, +1 SC Mountain, +4 Magma Jet, +2 Goblin Dark Dwellers.
Hey, new to the thread. I was looking to see if there was a modern incarnation of Ponza, and discovered this which looks even more appealing. There is something wonderful about the idea of casting dragons in a competitive deck.
I have a list below I'm thinking about, and would appreciate any advice you have. It lacks Blood Moon, which is a temporary, budget-related issue (since the playset of that basically costs as much as the rest twice over).
I have a few questions. First, how does this look overall for a starting build (you know, aside from the temporary lack of Blood Moon)?
Second, do the mana rocks really help that much? I don't know that a turn 3 Koth is all that devestating, and I'm not sure if something like -4 Coldsteel Heart, +2 SC Mountain, +2 Mizzium Mortars will afford better consistency.
Third, regarding threats: Is Thunderbreak Regent really powerful enough to close a game these days? I see him in a lot of lists, but am unsure he's the right choice. I wondered about going for Inferno Titan, but thought it might be too slow. Stormbreak looks great though.
Anyway, thanks for any advice you are willing to offer.
Without running upward of 26 to 27 lands, I have found myself having trouble getting enough lands to make either Sun Titan or Emeria work. This may be due to the fact that I cut all copies of Pilgrim's Eye, and that without casting any card draw spells/cantrips, there is only a 47.2% chance for me to play a land every turn until turn 6. Maybe I should run some more Pilgrim's Eye?
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is Think Twice awful/terrible? It is often a cantrip that could be casted on instant speed and could potentially net you 1 more card later in the game. More importantly, it allows the mana that I held up for counterspell not to go to waste. How is it worse than Whispers of the Muse ?
The reason I prefer Mana Leak over Negate is precisely because I want to counter the opponent's threat on turn 2. The tap-out version doesn't really have a good turn 2 play (mostly creatures) compared to other decks in the format (Tarmogoyf, Arcbound Ravager, Thought-Knot Seer, Kitchen Flinks, Blighted Agent and Silvergill Adept, to name a few). Even though making the opponent overextend into Supreme Verdict is sweet, I might be dead before turn 4.
Others have explained part of it, but basically, it's fairly straightforward. "Draw a card" sucks, because you'd rather just play one more actually good card in the same slot. Now, "draw two cards" is okay, but only at reasonable cost. The appropriate cost for "draw two cards" is 3-4 mana, not 5.
So where do you play instant-speed, weak card draw? Permission decks. If you're playing permanents, you're not leaving mana for Think Twice. If you are leaving mana for Think Twice, you're better off being able to cycle cheaply early and get more powerful advantage later. This is exactly why WotM is better: it cycles cheaper than Think Twice but, if you draw one later, it is a potentially game-winning amount of card advantage.
If you're paying mana to cantrip, you need either another perk or at least better card selection. Anticipate is okay. Court Hussar, in this deck, is a lot better. It becomes a repeatable Anticipate later, for free (which is card advantage anyway with Emeria or Titan).
Emeria: higher land restrictions, a drop slower in theory, requires no mana once it becomes active, provides card advantage
Canonnade: provides two colors, ignores graveyard hate, might be active a bit earlier, takes a lot more mana to use, vulnerable to creature-removal
In general, the more tap-out and white you play, the better Emeria is, while the more permission and blue you play, the better Canonnade is.
Precisely because I took the middle of the road approach so I've decided to split Emeria and Celestial Colonnade. Celestial Colonnade could also serve as a mana sink and a late game threat that is resilent to sorcery removal. Is this approach flawed?
Once again, I am grateful for your input. I know that I am not any good with deck building by any sketch of imagination so your advice would be very important to me.
Thanks again in advance.
My point is that 27 land might be overkill if it's cutting into the business spells you need to play in order to survive/win. If you discover that to be the case, and need to cut to 23-25 (which is usually enough to play the deck), you probably can't support both. If you DO keep 27 land, you can support both. But for less land, you probably need to pick one.
SoulofAtlantis:
I think ENC0hRE gives pretty good advice overall. Apparently we both see things for UW Control on a spectrum from the Tap Out builds to the Flash builds (as to some who think it's one or the other). I agree that you want to max PtE. I personally use Swan Song over other countermagic because it's easier to use when you're playing more permanents, but those are a matter of preferance. Dispel may be another legitimate option, depending on what you're worried about. As was said, we're pretty good at answering permanents (shy of those with EtB or WYC triggers).
That said, I will comment a bit further on two things. First: Think Twice is an awful spell almost everywhere. It's only arguably passable in Flash builds (for when you held up for turn 2-3 countermagic and the opponent passed), and even there, Whispers of the Muse is probably better over the course of a game.
The other thing is lands. Most builds run 23-25 land. This is probably enough for either Emeria or Canonnade. However, you have both. I'm not sure about that, as they both serve similar roles (becoming active around the same time to close out a game), but Emeria's requirement of at least 15 Plains plus other cantrips or supplementing can make it tough to fit Canonnade. While you meet thse requirements, you only do so because you're at 27 land, which may mean you run out of answers in the early turns. I'd think about picking one and sticking with it.
Emeria: higher land restrictions, a drop slower in theory, requires no mana once it becomes active, provides card advantage
Canonnade: provides two colors, ignores graveyard hate, might be active a bit earlier, takes a lot more mana to use, vulnerable to creature-removal
In general, the more tap-out and white you play, the better Emeria is, while the more permission and blue you play, the better Canonnade is.
FDL42:
Yes, we lack a cheap threat on the level of 'goyf or even Delver. Generally, that's fine: our early-game defense is pretty solid and we don't lack for finishers later. There are a few decks that I'd like to pressure, but the disruption is often more meaningful there and a decent clock is still provided by Flickerwisp.
That said, we don't lack for early drops in general, and those that you suggested generally look pretty bad for us. Turn 2, we have Wall of Omens, Missionary, Snapcaster, Phantasmal Image, disruption (countermagic or Spreading Seas), and a few others. While some people don't like running a full playset of these individual choices, it shouldn't be difficult to justify 9 of these cards and perhaps as many as 12. If you need more than that, what have you given up to make room for it?
As far as Avacyn Mk. 3, she is really interesting. I personally hate flip cards in general but, putting that aside, 5 mana for a Serra Angel with flash would be good on its surface, the protective effect is a nice surprise, and the flip effect might wipe the opponent's board (and you can recover fairly easily). The only issue is that she's hard to justify over anything else she might compete with. She's only really in competition with the most marginal early drops and Titan #3 or #4. I think generally, I might sooner play Restoration Angel, as RA lands a turn earlier, gives blink-value, and can also win combat math (though not as well as Avacyn v.3, but we tend to be good here already). I think she might be better in the permission-heavy builds, where Flash and Vigilance are favorable anyway and she may get the nod over RA.
I'm all for making the Magic community a more accepting and welcoming place. However, this article basically uses the same hyperbolic vitriol and political edge that has crept in everywhere. I hear enough politics (combined with evangelizing and calling people Nazis) basically everywhere else. Can we fix these issues without resorting to the same base behavior?
a) Regarding Synod Sanctum over Mortarpod: I think this is a really clever trick, but it is pretty mana intensive. By the time you can pull this off, you probably have a dominant board presence courtesy of Titan and Emeria anyway; I doubt a bit more removal will matter at this point. Mortarpod has other utility, and does so earlier, which is its main perk. Still, I don't run this either. It feels superfluous.
b) Regarding Mind Stone: This is pretty good, and something I toyed with initially. I like this better than using Spellbombs for later card drawing. I eventually dropped it because (A) recurring Hussars is better, and (B) it didn't fit the curve well: I have a lot of great 2cc and 3cc cards, so its questionable if missing those drops is worth an early Wrath. Still, it's certainly something worth considering.
c) Regarding Eldrazi Processors: These are really powerful with Flickerwisp, I just wonder if it's win-more.
d) Regarding Ghostly Flickers: Interesting call. I had good results using Restoration Angel instead, once a Flickerwisp was on the table. It's a strong creature regardless, and can pull many of the same tricks.
Against aggro-Eldrazi, this doesn't help you stabilize. If you're lucky enough to do 5 against a Reality Smasher, you're still getting hit for as much if not more, and your relative board state has deteriorated. It might help to close the game if you hit one of the big guys, but don't PWs and Dragons close things pretty fast too? Against other Eldrazi, it might be better. Regardless, there's indication that this won't be such a problem in few weeks.
For RG-Tron, this might help against a turn 4 Karn (or turn 3, if we're on the play and have a mana rock). But still, they have Karn, we probably lack a creature or PW to threaten them, and so Karn starts taking threats out of our hand. Versus, if Karn need to immediately remove a Dragon or Koth, he's now in Bolt range at least. It is pretty good versus Emerakul. Against U-Tron, they're fine playing slower and will just wait until they can counter simultaneously as cast their threat, and we're giving them time by holding back mana for this. Still, mana denial beats this in all cases.
I mean, I don't have a lot of experience with Skred Red, but I can't imagine being very scared of that card from my experience playing Tron. I'd be more scared of the guy packing additional land destruction.
Speaking of which, I notice some people running 3 these days. Is there a particular reason? Should I consider replacing the 4th with a Chandra, Pyromaster; Thunderbreak Regent, or Pia and Kiran?
Swords are an interesting choice in that they let you switch to beatdown. That can help in some matchups. Still, it costs 5 mana, and potentially more in the face of good removal. That much mana could get you another Blade Splicer plus cantrip or something. Worth considering the tradeoff.
I'm not sure I'm the best person to give advice on the main: I tried a bit of "Toolbox" devotion but switched back to a "Traditional" build shortly after. Something to keep in mind is that you seem to be running a hybrid Walker/Toolbox build. There have been a bunch of discussions about that lately and whether it's better to focus on one or the other.
One thing I CAN say is that a white SB splash will solve all your problematic matchups. Mark of Asylum answers burn-based removal. Rule of Law answers storm decks. And you also get access to PtE for the occassions you want your own removal (you didn't mention any, but they may happen).
Good luck, and enjoy.
So yes, if you're playing Curio, or Planeswalkers, or Toolbox, or the like, you need a lot of focus around a single game style. But for most builds, they probably share more in common with the Traditional list in that the more varied and numerous their win conditions, the better they'll do.
On a sadder note, I'm not sure we'll ever be tier 1. We don't really have the consistently blinding speed or early disruption that is typically required. However, we do have what it takes to be solidly tier 2 which, in my opinion, is preferable: you get a lot less hate that way, and have a decent shot against a majority of the field. Also, wins just feel all the better as an underdog.
As far as countermagic: it's the least useful part of my build, but when it's used, I'm REALLY glad I have it. I'm considering moving from Swan Song to Negate just for certain edge cases. Nevermore is good in the SB too, and fills a similar purpose.
Edit--Update: all except the Koths are on their way. Hooray! May be playing Avalanche Riders until then.
I find the deck fun because it plays a good straight creature game, but has the ability to also play control or combo, and has a half dozen ways to win so no two games are the same. I also almost always feel as if I have some chance to win.
Steven:
This is not the most consistent or reliable deck, nor is it the most powerful or forgiving. This is a high barrier to entry psychologically, I think. It was hard for me to adapt from my blue-mage mentality. That said, everyone is playing cards like GQ to kill Eldrazi. While GQ is, at best, mediocre against Eldrazi, it's great against us, so we're incidental casualties.
Things will get better when Eldrazi goes away.
In other words, it feels too conditional, even before factoring in the effect on the mana base. If you want your Flickerwisp-repeatable Vindicate for 6-mana in one turn, might as well spend the seventh for Spine.
I've always liked Mind Stone, and despite the fact that CsH is a Snow permanent, that will do less than cycling. Still, I don't even know that any of our 4cc plays on turn 3 will impact the board immediately enough to be worth it over a kill spell on turn 2. The two I'd like are Mizzium Mortars and Magma Jet. As much as I like Mortars, Skred is probably enough kill for big-guys (once Eldrazi decline), while Scrying Sheets can smooth the draws. Since I want to make my first 4-5 mana on time, that means either 24 land, 22 land and 4 rocks, or 23 lands and 4 cantrip/scry?
I don't know what the border is for "big Skred," but I'm guessing it's at 6cc (Flamecaller or Titan). I do like the idea of playing a Dragon, and PtE is more prolific here than Terminate (though I think Terminate is bad news for all our options). Thundermaw and Thunderbreak seem... underwhelming, I guess. I don't see when I'd prefer either to Stormbreath.
Definitely keeping Reckoner. Though that hints I should use more SC Mountains. Goblin Dark-Dwellers is... actually really good, particularly in my build, I think. I may want two copies over the 5th and 6th Dragon. Pia and Kiran are interesting as well on paper but, aside from providing some tokens to sack, are they really that good (particularly if the build omits mana rocks)?
Thinking about modifying the above list with -4 Coldsteel Heart, -2 Thunderbreak Regent, -1 Pyroclasm, +1 SC Mountain, +4 Magma Jet, +2 Goblin Dark Dwellers.
I have a list below I'm thinking about, and would appreciate any advice you have. It lacks Blood Moon, which is a temporary, budget-related issue (since the playset of that basically costs as much as the rest twice over).
19 Snow-Covered Mountains
3 Scrying Sheets
4 Coldsteel Heart
Creatures & Planeswalkers (14)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
4 Pyroclasm
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
I have a few questions. First, how does this look overall for a starting build (you know, aside from the temporary lack of Blood Moon)?
Second, do the mana rocks really help that much? I don't know that a turn 3 Koth is all that devestating, and I'm not sure if something like -4 Coldsteel Heart, +2 SC Mountain, +2 Mizzium Mortars will afford better consistency.
Third, regarding threats: Is Thunderbreak Regent really powerful enough to close a game these days? I see him in a lot of lists, but am unsure he's the right choice. I wondered about going for Inferno Titan, but thought it might be too slow. Stormbreak looks great though.
Anyway, thanks for any advice you are willing to offer.
Others have explained part of it, but basically, it's fairly straightforward. "Draw a card" sucks, because you'd rather just play one more actually good card in the same slot. Now, "draw two cards" is okay, but only at reasonable cost. The appropriate cost for "draw two cards" is 3-4 mana, not 5.
So where do you play instant-speed, weak card draw? Permission decks. If you're playing permanents, you're not leaving mana for Think Twice. If you are leaving mana for Think Twice, you're better off being able to cycle cheaply early and get more powerful advantage later. This is exactly why WotM is better: it cycles cheaper than Think Twice but, if you draw one later, it is a potentially game-winning amount of card advantage.
If you're paying mana to cantrip, you need either another perk or at least better card selection. Anticipate is okay. Court Hussar, in this deck, is a lot better. It becomes a repeatable Anticipate later, for free (which is card advantage anyway with Emeria or Titan).
My point is that 27 land might be overkill if it's cutting into the business spells you need to play in order to survive/win. If you discover that to be the case, and need to cut to 23-25 (which is usually enough to play the deck), you probably can't support both. If you DO keep 27 land, you can support both. But for less land, you probably need to pick one.
I think ENC0hRE gives pretty good advice overall. Apparently we both see things for UW Control on a spectrum from the Tap Out builds to the Flash builds (as to some who think it's one or the other). I agree that you want to max PtE. I personally use Swan Song over other countermagic because it's easier to use when you're playing more permanents, but those are a matter of preferance. Dispel may be another legitimate option, depending on what you're worried about. As was said, we're pretty good at answering permanents (shy of those with EtB or WYC triggers).
That said, I will comment a bit further on two things. First: Think Twice is an awful spell almost everywhere. It's only arguably passable in Flash builds (for when you held up for turn 2-3 countermagic and the opponent passed), and even there, Whispers of the Muse is probably better over the course of a game.
The other thing is lands. Most builds run 23-25 land. This is probably enough for either Emeria or Canonnade. However, you have both. I'm not sure about that, as they both serve similar roles (becoming active around the same time to close out a game), but Emeria's requirement of at least 15 Plains plus other cantrips or supplementing can make it tough to fit Canonnade. While you meet thse requirements, you only do so because you're at 27 land, which may mean you run out of answers in the early turns. I'd think about picking one and sticking with it.
Emeria: higher land restrictions, a drop slower in theory, requires no mana once it becomes active, provides card advantage
Canonnade: provides two colors, ignores graveyard hate, might be active a bit earlier, takes a lot more mana to use, vulnerable to creature-removal
In general, the more tap-out and white you play, the better Emeria is, while the more permission and blue you play, the better Canonnade is.
FDL42:
Yes, we lack a cheap threat on the level of 'goyf or even Delver. Generally, that's fine: our early-game defense is pretty solid and we don't lack for finishers later. There are a few decks that I'd like to pressure, but the disruption is often more meaningful there and a decent clock is still provided by Flickerwisp.
That said, we don't lack for early drops in general, and those that you suggested generally look pretty bad for us. Turn 2, we have Wall of Omens, Missionary, Snapcaster, Phantasmal Image, disruption (countermagic or Spreading Seas), and a few others. While some people don't like running a full playset of these individual choices, it shouldn't be difficult to justify 9 of these cards and perhaps as many as 12. If you need more than that, what have you given up to make room for it?
As far as Avacyn Mk. 3, she is really interesting. I personally hate flip cards in general but, putting that aside, 5 mana for a Serra Angel with flash would be good on its surface, the protective effect is a nice surprise, and the flip effect might wipe the opponent's board (and you can recover fairly easily). The only issue is that she's hard to justify over anything else she might compete with. She's only really in competition with the most marginal early drops and Titan #3 or #4. I think generally, I might sooner play Restoration Angel, as RA lands a turn earlier, gives blink-value, and can also win combat math (though not as well as Avacyn v.3, but we tend to be good here already). I think she might be better in the permission-heavy builds, where Flash and Vigilance are favorable anyway and she may get the nod over RA.