MTG Salvation

Thanks!
Considering that the only reply to this is positive, all I have to do now is find a way to make the deck work.

Quote from Trinite0 »

My major beef with the Vault right now is that the progression in both invisible, and so slow as to be imperceptible in its effect, so that right now it feels as though it doesn't even exist. So it's not serving its psychological purpose of offsetting the frustration of opening duplicates at all. Even if all we could see is some tiny little icon that tells us that the duplicates are doing *something*, that would be better than the current system.

^ This. This is the issue. I would really like to actually have the information available. I think that someone somewhere stated they have hidden the progress so that it's not frustrating to watch it not move, but I think a better solution to that would be a faster pace of vault progress, not hiding the information from the users.

My personal hope is that they produce a proper shuffling algorithm. I mean, I have just finished a 1-3 quick draft, in which I managed to draw at least ten lands in every game (not exaggerating here, I literally saw at least twice as much lands as nonlands every game) in a monoR deck with 16 lands. When I splash a color and put three basics in the deck, I somehow manage to draw at least two of them (often more than the basics of color/s I play as main) 95% of the games. When I play a standard deck with twenty lands, I almost never fail to draw at least five. It's incredibly frustrating, especially since I still play paper at least once per week and similar situations simply don't happen irl. I don't know how their deck randomizing engine works, I am just certain it doesn't work as it should.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from goblin_chef »

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from Decadent_Creed »

Oranges are great, right? People who like oranges are in for a treat!

We'll be bringing you some fruit in a couple days.

Here are some bananas.


It's reasonable to think that two statements that could be simultaneously true coming from the same company are in fact related. That said, I'm not too broken up about it. We'll be seeing new cards pretty soon anyway. This also doesn't mean we won't still be getting oranges.

Drag 'em. Another reasonable voice, as everyone continues to debate their expectations.

How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.

Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.

I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.

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Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.

Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.

You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from krishnath »

Quote from goblin_chef »

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from goblin_chef »

How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.

Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.

I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.

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Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.

Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.

You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.

I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.

Essentially. Incidental and conflicting. When the first reaction to more info is dread (RE: Serra?), eh.

I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.

I get that. The only two qualms I have with this logic is thinking WotC owes us the early information - just because they did provide over the past few years doesn't make them obliged to do anything - and seeing Gavin's offhand comment about some form of providing Kamigawa content in an unspecified future product as related not only to the upcoming Commander decks, but even to the stream itself.

Also, why dread? There are some good arguments for Serra being Bant, as others have shown. From a functional standpoint, having a wider range of cards at your disposal is generally better (unless we are no longer seeing MtG as a game, but rather as an aesthetic extension of a story, which, to me, is a very flawed perception of a product the main aspect of which is the capacity to be used as game pieces). Don't get me wrong, I personally would have gone with a mono W Serra, but even if she is printed as Bant (if she is even present in the product at all), I think there will be more happy than unhappy customers, and that's the bottom line here.

Instead of arguing over whether WotC should have given us more information, let's try to think of reasons why they didn't. I mean, Commander is, historiaclly, a well-selling product, providing certain information in certain amounts before the actual spoilers is a pretty decent advertising strategy and we know that it works in this specific context. Marketing team should be aware of this (the discussion of actual capabilities of the WotC Marketing team are a different topic entirely, but I am aware of possible shortcomings here, hence the "should"). So why didn't they give us more info? This is an honest question: what do you think? Do they think us not knowing anything creates more hype, or do they already know that more information would kill our interest in the product early? As in, they reveal there are no characters from earlier stories - no Serra for you, no Tevesh Szat for me, etc. No Kamigawa throwbacks, the commanders are utter garbage and so on. Mind, WotC marketing strategy is conceived with US market in mind first and foremost - hype itself is a highly culture-dependent marketing strategy that definitely works for USA and Canada, but is not nearly as effective everywhere. I am certain there is a reason for the course of action they chose and I hope it's the former of the two I mention.

Quote from ashrog »

Quote from IamGruul »

I wonder who might end up being the Izzet commander for an artifact deck. And the only result I can come up with is Daretti going the Mizzix route

Most likely options are Saheeli, Dack Fayden or a new character.

Daretti is now established as a BR character lore-wise, so he's probably out. I think Dack resonates more with the audience, but that might be because he actually got a story. I don't care either way, as long as the stats are decent. When discussing which character should get a card, we tend to forget that there is a significant non-Vorthos part of the market. You know, the ones that want a spider legend that would allow them to include R, werewolf legend that actually supports werevolves, bear legend that somehow interacts with bears, etc.

Quote from Cainsson »

So they could have done the Aswan Jaguar and created cool cards that can't exist in paper, but instead they decided to keep treating novice players like idiots.
Yeah, it's WotC.

I'm not sure they want to go down that road. One thing I love about Magic is that there are no RNG shenanigans and I hope it will say that way. Sure, with digital products, they certainly can, but they probably shouldn't. There already was some potential for digital-only random effect cards in MTGO, so I don't think WotC is planning to tap into this one.

Quote from leslak »

Well lets hope that with this arena can have a its own meta that at least looks a little diferent than real cards’ standard

Wotc seems to be trying to create multiple "Standards" - first they introduced the Global Series, with new cards being standard-legal only in one region, now they added new cards into a digital product. Playability of both sets of cards is highly questionable, but the Buy-a-Box promos seem to be getting stronger (yes, I know two cards are not a reliable sample size).

I haven't seen this discussed on the forums, either here or in Arena discussion. sorry if I'm creating a duplicate. With yesterday's patch, five unique cards have been introduced to MTG Arena (one of which I would love to see on paper, for the sake of white commander players). Source here.

Is this the first sign of WotC going digital? Is this the end of Magic as we know it? (No, but let the doomsday predictions flow anyway.) How do you folk feel about this?

Well, I'm gonna go "meh" on this one. It's not that the set is bad, it most definitely isn't. I just don't enjoy the aesthetics of vehicles and pilots and all that jazz. Not to mention energy counters. Mechanic is just fine, but the new pictures on cards? Not my cup of tea. There are quite a few cards for my casual cube in the making and commander decks, though. I'm just happy for all of you who actually like the set as a whole.

One more thing: Revolutionary Rebuff. You all seem to like it. Why? I started playing back when Counterspell was a thing. Mana Leal is a perfectly fine common for both limited and constructed. Was it really necessary to nerf it this much?

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Quote from chochky »

Quote from Kassow-Rossing »

Quote from goblin_chef »

Monarch reminds me of the edge from VtES a lot. Which is not necessarily a bad thing - in that game it worked great. I wonder what it's going to be like without the predator-prey structure of interaction, though.

Would you care to elaborate?

To put it short, in Vampire: The Eternal Struggle (VtES) you can only attack the player to your left (known as your "prey"). Whenever you "bleed" a player this way (deal them combat damage basically), you gain what's called the "edge" (represented by a counter). At the beginning of your turn, if you control the "edge", you basically gain 1 life. What makes it interesting is that in VtES, your life is your resource (you spend it like mana to play cards). These rules in combination make for a dynamic and often tense multiplayer experience, where deal making is a key part of strategy and aggressive play needs to be balanced with caution.

I'll just add one little clarification: in Vampire, you automatically replace every card you play (wit ha fex card-specific exceptions), so gaining a point of life in that game is closer to card advantage in MtG than to lifegain.

Aaand that will be the first rare I get 4 of on Arena.

I guess it could have been the 12 mana red sorcery...

F***ing stupid token gesture, cheap and hypocritical.

Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.

But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?

What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?

This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.

I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.

Shame.

Please, Wizards, just stop. We don’t need alt art of every rare. We are fatigued with extended art, alt art, Anime art, Godzilla foil alt frame cards. At this point the alt arts are not special anymore. No more fairy tales, cartoon kaiju cards, and teen Titan feeling artwork.

Please go back to magic being Summons and demonic feel. I want to be called a devil worshipers again for playing magic.


For the love of god, fix your card stock, the past Two product have Over saturated Ink on thinner card stock.

Quote from Gutterstorm »

Quote from Xcric »

not just that, but do commander players even care what plane we visit? format doesn't really impact the popularity of a set, or the desire to return to it... the cards do.

yeah those legacy players sure are hyped to return to zendikar! dominaria sold well because it once had lightning bolt printed in that setting! ...see how silly that sounds?

So? Commander players also tend to be Vorthos as well. And yes. Sometimes when our favorite cards are associated with a particular plane we get excited at the prospect of going back. I'll always get excited for Ravnica because I'm always looking forward to a new Niv card. So what does it matter that they've been doing 50% return planes (as long as you count GRN, RNA and WAR as a single entity it's actually slightly less than 50%)? They're going to use popular settings. It'd be like telling Marvel to stop publishing Iron Man.

do they? data on that?

half the dudes i play with couldn't even tell you what goes on in the story, and don't much care what plane we go to unless its one they already liked because it gave them powerful cards

i think if anything we take what we personally enjoy and ascribe it as a broad generalization to the playerbase

personally, as someone who primarily plays commander over the past 10 years, i don't care what plane we go to at all. there are a few characters i'd like to see get cards some day but beyond that? going back to zendikar is about as neat as going to eldraine, i don't care so long as the cards are good.

In all honesty I’ll probably check out both sites. I’ll definitely come back here for archival info and to see how it precedes. At the same time the content creators that are leaving should be worth following.
It’s not like you cannot visit multiple sites. And if one place lags I’ll drop it. I used to frequent NGA, but don’t spend any time there currently.
I hate to see this site break up, but c’est la vie. I still miss the official WOTC forums, but life goes on.

Tevesh Szat!

Which reminds me, still missing him as a card!

That feel when the most recent standard set has more modern impact then a set called "Modern" Horizons. The reason they gave is complete horse crap too. "We didn't want the reprints to outshine the new cards." Here's a thought, PRINT BETTER NEW CARDS. To think the card counterspell would even have any kind of sizable impact on modern is out and out laughable. If COUNTERSPELL is outshining the new cards in a set designed for eternal formats (Commander, modern, and legacy), then there is something fundamentally flawed with the sets design. We're 90+ cards into spoiler season and the cards you have good lands, two to three cards that might, MIGHT warrant testing, a bunch of sideboard cards, and chaff. It's not even interesting chaff. I wasn't expecting modern welcoming legacy staples and power-creep up the yin-yang like some people seemed to want, but I was expecting more innovation then dime-store bootlegs of legacy staples, random reprints of cards past there prime, Joke cards that feel more at home in an un-set, and snow (Who the heck wanted snow as a returning mechanic?)

I'm an older player. I've played this game close to twelve years, have legacy, modern and commander decks, and enjoy fun complicated draft formats. I was honestly excited to play with modern horizons cards because it felt like a set designed for someone like me. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and them to reveal more interesting cards for draft, more powerful cards for modern and legacy, and commander cards that are actually fun in a multiplayer setting and not oh that's a cool commander, but if you can say "We didn't want the reprints to outshine the new cards." with a straight face when talking about counterspell, freaking counterspell, then I'm beginning to realize it's never going to. I do sincerely hope I'm wrong, but currently this set feels like a joke with us as the punchline and the canopy lands as the cash grab. Not. A. Fan.

Quote from HighHolder »

Footlight is unplayable, use diregraf ghoul
Theatre is a do nothing control card
Ravenous Chupacabra is worth at least 3 slots
Also, where is your playset of
bedevil?

This is not an edh deck but a competitive standard deck, if you don't understand the difference don't comment.

Theater of horrors is the best card in this deck, it gives it staying power and it helps it win against esper and other mid-range and control decks.

Why does the deck need bedevil? And chupacabra is too expensive at 4 mana and also doesn't fit the deck theme well, due to flame of keld most of the creatures in the deck must be reddish. And don't ask why flame of keld is there.

Storm scale has always been only for standard-legal products, not sure how this is news...