What kind of removal suite should I be running? Currently, I have 4 PtE's, 1 Dismember, and 1 Warping Wail. Should I go with Go for the Throat over Warping Wail mainboard, and is 6 removal spells MB enough?
I have quite a bit of affinity, merfolk, and Blood Moon decks in my meta, so the extra disenchant is a concession to that fact.
I am personally a fan of the sowers, they give me some more exile effects and help ramp up to Newlamog, but if they end up being more of a liability in the end I will cut them.
I haven't really gotten many reps in with the deck yet, so a lot of my thinking is theory crafing. I appreciate your help!
First thing first, I personally a fan of Sower myself and its the card that makes you win against tron - maybe reality smasher does that job too, but sower makes it obvious. Against the rest of the field maybe you can cut him. I'm on the fence between 2 and 3 sowers, currently testing 2 in favour of 4 reality smasher and 3 herders - in preparation for a meta with fast aggro (burn, affinity, infect). While 4 hearders might be better against fast aggro, i think smasher is about interchangable with sower against tron, so i keep my matchup against them equal. I think i might go back and forth testing which of them gets the 4 spot.
Now what is you overall record against affinity, merfolk and blood moon decks - do you win most often with 3 disenchants in the side and what cards do you bring in against the different matchups that you win? Im personally not a fan of Flaying tendrils due to the double black, and all is dust goes nothing against affinity and is too slow for most of the fast aggro decks from my testing.
Essentially what I have noticed against RG Tron is that you need to get them on a clock as fast as possible while trying to keep them off of Tron. This is why Reality Smasher is better. He comes down a turn sooner and swings in 2 turns sooner. If you are able to disrupt their hand and Tron pieces onboard to buy yourself a couple turns, you can usually lethal them. The other main difference for Reality Smasher is that multiples in hand is a great thing. You can easily curve T3 5 damage T4 10 Damage T5 Lethal where as with Oblivion Sower, they clunk up the hand too much and in games where you don't have eye, take too long to hit the board.
I am with folks that are saying "don't give up on Tron". That's right don't give up on it. However don't go out of your way with sideboard cards specifically for tron. I have had middling success against tron but my sideboard for them is 2x Stoney, 2x Duress and 2x Surgical... With all the aggro running around, this is where I cater to Flaying Tendrils and Ratchet Bombs.
My main reason for Ratchet Bombs is I want answers to 3 CMC cards. The biggest one I want an answer for is Ensnaring Bridge. I really don't want to walk into the Lantern Control matchup and just fold because I have like 2 ways to kill a bridge. It also hits Blood Moon and Aether Grid which is a bonus.
Alright, cool. I have made a couple of changes to the list, basically changing up the sideboard a bit after some thinking and adding more removal.
With seven processors and 25 lands, I think you should replace the Maps with Claws (I like the Claws, they can hit a target card, and they cantrip). I also think you are removal-light at only 4 PtE's.
What is your thinking on one Displacer in the sideboard? Three Disenchant seems like maybe one too many.
Many--though by no means all--builds are moving away from Sower altogether or cutting him to a one-of.
Ok, I will try out some claws, but I agree that my removal suite is lacking. What would you cut for a dismember and maybe a go for the throat or something along those lines?
I am trying out the Displacer for some grindy matchups where having something to do with my mana will be able to win me the game. I am not sure what I think yet, I just think the card has some sort of potential as a repeatable maze of ith or recursive processing effects. I have quite a bit of affinity, merfolk, and Blood Moon decks in my meta, so the extra disenchant is a concession to that fact.
I am personally a fan of the sowers, they give me some more exile effects and help ramp up to Newlamog, but if they end up being more of a liability in the end I will cut them.
I haven't really gotten many reps in with the deck yet, so a lot of my thinking is theory crafing. I appreciate your help!
Hey everyone, I am new to this archetype, what do we think of running Marsh Flats in the manabase? I've seen lists that do, and some that don't. What are the advantages of each?
It really is a preference call. When running just pain lands, you take on average 3.5 damage per game. This makes them slightly worse damage wise than Fetches. The reason some of us go without Fetches is because your average T1 play costs you less life and doesn't punish you as much for Thoughtseize. When I had fetches, I almost never fetched a basic (because you need both colors and might as well get them). This would put you at 15 after a T1 Thoughtseize.. ow. With Painlands you are only at 17 and can then play accordingly. I also preferred pain lands because it slightly increased the number of lands that can tap for <C>. Because of this, I have never been stuck with all color sources and not been able to cast TKS and Reality Smasher. The benefit of Fetches is it lets you play Rest for the Weary, You can play it without but it does make the card slightly worse.
Alright, awesome! Thanks for the input. I think I am gonna go with the fetch plan, I like having extra game vs Blood Moon and Spreading Seas post-board. Here is the list I am currently working on:
Hey everyone, I am new to this archetype, what do we think of running Marsh Flats in the manabase? I've seen lists that do, and some that don't. What are the advantages of each?
Alright, cool. I have made a couple of changes to the list, basically changing up the sideboard a bit after some thinking and adding more removal.
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
Creatures
4x Blight Herder
2x Oblivion Sower
3x Reality Smasher
3x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Wasteland Strangler
1x Dismember
4x Path to Exile
1x Warping Wail
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Thoughtseize
Artifacts
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scrabbling Claws
1x All Is Dust
2x Disenchant
2x Duress
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Ratchet Bomb
3x Rest for the Weary
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
Thoughts?
Ok, I will try out some claws, but I agree that my removal suite is lacking. What would you cut for a dismember and maybe a go for the throat or something along those lines?
I am trying out the Displacer for some grindy matchups where having something to do with my mana will be able to win me the game. I am not sure what I think yet, I just think the card has some sort of potential as a repeatable maze of ith or recursive processing effects. I have quite a bit of affinity, merfolk, and Blood Moon decks in my meta, so the extra disenchant is a concession to that fact.
I am personally a fan of the sowers, they give me some more exile effects and help ramp up to Newlamog, but if they end up being more of a liability in the end I will cut them.
I haven't really gotten many reps in with the deck yet, so a lot of my thinking is theory crafing. I appreciate your help!
Alright, awesome! Thanks for the input. I think I am gonna go with the fetch plan, I like having extra game vs Blood Moon and Spreading Seas post-board. Here is the list I am currently working on:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creature
4 Blight Herder
2 Oblivion Sower
3 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Expedition Map
Spells
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 All is Dust
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest for the Weary
3 Disenchent
I have a few things I am concerned with/need some help on:
Any other help would be VERY much appreciated!