MTG Salvation

@daviusminimus I'll probably go 3 maze and 1 ballista coz i only found 3 mazes LOL but i totally agree that the biggest problem is not to commit to it. I also like the crumbling vestige tech so I'll try tinkering with the mana base from there.

Hey guys so I'm coming back to this deck finally after the summer bloom banning. I really missed how this deck plays, the confused opponent who goes what the hell is happening? is this magic?. I have been going around modern decks but this deck has got to be the deck that I had found the most fun with. Plus i heard that a fave troll card of mine can be played in this deck now, Root maze. @daviusminimus if I used your deck as a base what would you tweak for 2-3 copies of it?

Hey guys long time no update for me in this forum. Been playing lots of 8rack recently

I have a few opinions with regards to nahiri and chandra
-nahiri is still a beast one is for the extra mainboard enchantment hate ability. Second is her ability to loot away dead cards against certain matchups g1. Really small bonus is it Allows me to play a one of emrakul as well just for extra surgical measures.
-chandra is useful and if i could figure out the right balance between chandra and nahiri i would play both. (Which i already do at a 3 nahiri 1 chandra tod split)

My main question is i sort of want to start splashing black instead of white. For fatal push in the mainboard and slaughter games in the sideboard. And any other black cards that might be useful.

I am just gonna miss the consistency that oath of nissa had provided me if i go this route.

Side note what do people think about renegade rallier for the splash white version?

So I just came back from a 7 round tournament.

So i went down to 1 chandra TOD and cut mina and denn for 2 P&K. Nahiri did work P&K did work as well so I was happy the changes I did (props to KTROJAN).

The only thing I think i've really concluded is that I don't think Chandra is right for the deck. I like her versatility but honestly I found her lacking. So I'm probably changing her to a 3rd P&K or Mina and denn(still did work off the board).

That is the whole point. Them throwing resources at Nahiri is the whole point of having her in the deck and how many decks run a 1/1? most decks will run 2 power if not 3 power creatures then at that point they need to extend on the board which means the angers get even better. but point is even one damage cant be the difference between staying alive and dying, ask that to every burn player who lacks that 1 point of topdeck damage. If they dont throw resources she is a guaranteed titan in two turns.

We are a combo deck that just needs to buy time if we dont draw our combo pieces on turns where we need them. Yes Pia and Kiran will buy you time. but P&K wont draw you to your titan/missing pcs, and P&K main body will always die to bolt as well which at that point you just have 2 1/1 chump blockers. atleast nahiri gets a bolt(which is now 3 damage not going your face) and one attack while filtering you. THe ability to pressure Liliana is the one thing I miss most about not having P&K mainboard

But I totally agree P&K is a good card as well that is why I'm probably moving Mina and Denn to SB(just cant give up my fancy card).

Quote from KTROJAN »

Your opponent doesn't have to remove nahiri they just have to keep you off the ult. You don't really gain value off of her because all your draws do the same thing, get land. So the only need to chipshot her and continue hitting you. I haven't played with 3 nahiri but I feel like it's weaker than both Chandra and Nissa unless you're against enchantments. P&k is much better vs infect too.

But if they just keep on chipping nahiri, Nahiri gets to stay on board to
A. Filter(via rummaging) to get you to your titans.
B. Remove said threat chipping Nahiri. By experience Nahiri should buy you 2 turns. It should be enough to get you to whatever your lacking to get titan into play.

I totally agree P&K is better against infect. Nahiri's come out vs infect. or any deck faster than us. (infect, deathshadow, affinity)

Quote from KTROJAN »

If you're talking nahiri as a "fog" for a turn I think p&k is better. Yeah nahiri ult is amazing but when you're looking at it as a way to buy time p&k are just better. The real value in nahiri is the main board ability to exile enchantments. Chandra shock can be exactly what you need if your opponent hasn't gone to 18 yet. 18 tends to be the sweet spot for fast kills. Chandra ult is also very deadly btw.

Personally I've never found a need to be at 25 lands and you should def be on windswept Heath over mires.

Noted on the windswepths over the mires, but I don't think I can go below 25 lands.

P&K vs Nahiri: Nahiri just gives more pressure to the opponent rather than being a speed bump like p&k and usually they have a removal spell waiting for atleast the main body. unlike nahiri their only way to kill is to attack it for the most part.

Quote from Don D »

How does your deck against fast creature decks (affinity, RDW, zoo, infect, dredge... ~50% of the meta)? Without lightning bolt / chalice and only 3 angers I would be afraid of missing early interaction with said decks and thus just get ran over. I'd suggest to cut Mina for the 4th anger. Anger is so good in the actual meta! Otherwise I'd cut Mina and the 3 Oath for 4 lightning bolts.

Dredge is a very good matchup especially without the bolts. We are typically already 1.5 turns faster than that deck and they really dont have any interaction against us. and dropping bolts just makes the match even better

Zoo and RDW is honestly draw dependent and an outright race but if I can ramp out nahiri/draw nahiri out via the oaths it usually forces them to play a mini game starting turn 3 which buys u enough turns. Usually if you drop nahiri it just confuses them so much

affinity is basically 50-50 now without bolts and based on their draw. I can imagine it being amazing with bolts and angers main board but it would make us less consistent in getting the titans/ramp

Infect is a terrible matchup G1 without bolts.

I agree that Mina and denn might be just me trying to get too fancy. It is always on the borderline of the cut.
Remember we are also a linear deck sometimes not having interaction gets solved by killing them as fast as freaking possible

our worst matchup is still ad nauseum second to that would be infect(even with bolts) and living end to an extent (fullminator draws just screw us up so bad)

So I haven't been able to play that much since the GP guangzhou in August. At the time the only thing I was sure of was i Needed to cut the Emrakul because it is the only dead draw in the deck and Nahiri if ultimates just needs to grab titan anyway.
So this is the current build I'm running (sideboard is in constant state of flux and I am most likely cutting out Nissa Vital Force).

I ran a version of the deck that was straight RG and no nahiris but with khalni hearts and traverse the ulvenwald 2 weeks back and just realized that delirium was too much work for it's benefit so decided to bring back the nahiris

My build is only Different from most people cause of the number of Walkers I have.
3 Nahiri, The harbinger is still an all star still fogs aggro decks like a boss and forces them to play a mini game, What nahiri does best is buy us one turn when usually all we need is one more turn to win.
2 Chandra, Torch of defiance Amazing in some matchups, and just ramp in other matchups. It is as versatile as Nahiri but not really a wincon . My biggest complain about it is. If you drop in on turn three and dont kill anything, well it doesnt really do anything aside from shock an opponent, which sometimes u dont want to do(is a shock really worth more than the mountain, titan, pact, valakut you might exile? I honestly dont think so.) but Since i'm going with no bolts having the option to control an opponents planeswalker by redirecting the shock to a liliana/Nahiri is good enough reason to have it in the deck for me.

3 summoner's pact I think 3 should be enough considering I also run 3 Oath of nissa The oath can turn into a land early game versus the pact being dead early

Mina and Denn wildborn is just my tech choice. Honestly it does work against some matchups and sometimes doesnt do ***** but I honestly think it is worth the slot.

I would like to hear more opinions on the 7 fetch vs 8 fetch I have been tempted to cut one fetch and probably make it +1 Stomping Ground. But I need more thoughts on the matter.

Don't comment on the sideboard plan please since I'm still working on that.
Aside from that comments and suggestions of the main decklist is very much appreciated.

@daviusminimus

Ive noticed your new SB of 1 courser, 1 leyline the rest looks standard

I was wondering what would u do for the tron matchup? and is crumble to dust not worth the slot?

Oh wait Kevin are u kevin groves?

Now I'm on the side board questioning phase.

1. Dismembers? are they really that good for our deck? I mean we can run slaughter pacts and EE?
2. Hornet queen? how do u guys find this card I've always found it theoritically good but never really did anything of substance with it even in the old list.
3. I have a bias towards dragonlord dromoka how do u guys see this card now? (my meta has lots of burn I even had this guy main deck nefore)
4. If we werent running leylines I would probably try the Nephalia academy basically turns off discard the whole game especially if u like anything in your hand.

Quote from daviusminimus »

@ Miko14,
I'm assuming we're talking unknown opponent (so game 1s). Its pretty tricky game 1 but my decisions vary based on quite a few factors.
1. Being on play - if you are on the play, you can almost keep a 6-land azusa hand. I would definitely keep a 5-land + Azusa 6-card hand. Its not ideal, but you'd have a lot of live topdecks and a T4 titan is usually good enough. On the draw, that's a definite mulligan. On the draw, i'm usually looking for the scout (since its a better card than azusa if you are in a race). If that's not there, I'm looking for amulet + azusa, or amulet + spirit guide. Failing that, I want Azusa + a piece of interaction (whether that's a khalni garden + bounceland, slaughter pact, EE or spell pierce). Your slower hands need a way to get you there. FAILING ALL OF THAT!!!... Azusa plus stirrings / visions will usually be a keep.
In most scenarios, I'm not bothered if i have a titan. I'll draw 1 eventually, its getting to 6 that's important (so you're 2nd point is what i'm referring to).

2. Does the opponent mulligan - if they mulligan, I might be tempted to keep a slighlty looser hand (azusa + titan + 5 lands, i literally just kept this on the draw). There's a strong argument to suggest that's the wrong approach, but them having 6 is relevant against the faster decks in the format.

3. Have I already mulliganed - when i first picked up the deck, I was pretty scared to mulligan. However, I feel ok about it now. I can go to 6, and be happy with what I get most of the time. But, if it just does nothing, 5 cards is very serviceable in this deck. Once you get to 6 though, don't put too many constraints on yourself. Just look for a piece of ramp and some lands. (just kept a 6 of azusa, scout, gemstone, city of brass, t-west, bounceland).

1. thanks i'll keep these in mind. Unfortunately coz of my schedule I won't be able to playtest the deck before the WMCQ. only had like 5 matches and it was like riding a bike.

2. I never really factor the opponents mulligan in my decisions

3. THe thing i realized was that I did not remember how to mulligan. With the old amulet bloom agressively mulliganing upto a 5 card hand against non disruptive decks was a nobrainer. now looks like you are right 6 card hands with a scry isnt that bad.

i am gonna play this at wmcq switching over coz i got kinda burned out playing the RG breach deck over the GP weekend. hope i can post good results with no playtesting. Few things I have noticed is that crumbling vestige is a damn good card.

rules interaction question
1. Bloodmoon in play. I play vesuva copying a basic island? will it turn into a mountain?
2. I have vesuva in play copying a basic land. opponent plays bloodmoon. will in turn into a mountain?

ok so I've decided to pick up the deck again.
@daviusminimus can you give me some tips on the mulligan decisions of the deck? What hands are keepable? and what hands do we throw back? I've been goldfishing it and basically
-i've come to see any hand with an amulet is an autokeep.
-ramper(azusa and scout)+ threat is a keep
-just a ramper and no digging and no threat is a throwback
-just a threat and no stirrings is a throw back(even with stirrings i would tend to throw it back)

any other mulligan decisions?

So I've been running the RG breach deck since the banning. I gotta admit I miss this deck. and I'm finally turning around on it.
thing is how is the decks matchup against burn?
my country has a high burn and aggro(infect affinity meta) I used to be able to just combo them out so fast.