THIS IS NOT A COMBO. Ideas Unbound is a terrible source of Card Disadvantage.
While I agree, we are a weird control deck, since if we don't find and resolve As Foretold fast we don't have access to our sweepers and most of our card advantage.
Finding As Foretold in time is crucial, and worth some card disadvantage in exchange for cheap selection (we can easily overcome it once we find As Foretold and can start casting Visions/Living End).
Helping flip Azcanta is also a nice upside, and with Mission Briefing coming we can get some value out of discarded cards as well.
That said, I do agree Ideas Unbound is likely not good enough for our deck.
My main "No" is that it's a sorcery, I would definitely try it if it was an instant. Tapping out early for this seems pretty tough, and later when we can still hold counters it loses a lot of appeal. Instant speed feels like a must for the Ub build of the deck.
As a sidenote to you BloodyRabbit, you might want to reconsider how you post. You always come out very aggresive and arrogant, and it certainly takes some effort (at least for me) to filter that and actually get to the content of your post. Take it or leave it, just wanted to mention it since sometimes it's an online thing where you don't realize how your posts read for others.
This is a fair evaluation of the card. Digging 3 deep on turn 2 in this building could be too slow. Of course, I was looking at it to supplement the remands we currently have. Depending on the situation, I’d rather have remand up than cast ideas unbound. However, in some instances with really aggressive aggro decks, like hollow one and affinity, maybe even humans, elves, merfolk, spirits, resetting the board with living end can be dire. I’ve tested 3 and it’s been okay.
And about rabbit...don’t get your panties in a knot man. It’s just a question. I’ve seen some articles on ideas unbound on the web and thought it could be strong here. No need to blow an artery and stroke out on your keyboard every time someone posts something you don’t agree with.
Saying this card is retarded because of card disadvantage is a feeble argument. One card to dig/loot/fix 3 cards isn’t something to shake it and may be worth a look.
Can anyone explain why we do not run Ideas Unbound? It can fix our hands on turn two making us more explosive, wiping the board on turn 3. Turn four we can leave up Cryptic Command or start hard casting our 4 drop creatures.
Secrets of the Mausoleum is definitely going to open up possibilities for this shell. I can't imagine how anyone could come to the conclusion that it definitely won't.
At the very least this will be a boon for the most proven version of this deck, the grixis version that has actually top 8-ed in large scale events at least twice now by Tom Medvec. I think people are writing this card off way too fast for Living As Foretold.
I was immediately excited when realizing that this card can grab Goryo's Vengeance or Living End in the Living As Foretold scheme. You all need to be willing to open the deck up to new possibilities. As it stands it hasn't really been doing all that much in the mono blue version, essentially being a less efficient version of the cascade based one.
Long and short. There isn't just one way to play this deck. Lets hear tech for both versions.
Also, I don't think its fair to say Tom Medvec's version is strictly inferior when the mono blue, or any version other than his has yet to top 16 in any large scale event. Certainly none as large as the two he's placed in.
Agreed. The new tutor in the Grixis version is pretty great. By no means is that deck inferior to the blue version. End of turn, tutoring a goryo’s for the win or a living end to board wipe is nuts. The amount of card draw and looting the red version runs to put a flip jace, griselbrand, or the other creatures is very consistent.
I’ll go as far to say that in the right shell ( a squee goblin or street wraith shell possibly), this new tutor may be on the same level as summoner’s pact for Primeval Titan. Except there’s no real reason to end of turn summoner’s pact obviously... and prime time needs 6 mana. And that’s a big leg up already.
What are your guys thoughts on silent arbiter in the sideboard. I've been using it to great success against go wide strategies such as 8wack and tokens.
I think he’s well suited right now. Worst case scenario he eats two bolts or a path which will ramp you to Wurmcoil next turn. Just look out for flector mage and kolaghans command, but Jund or Grixis isn’t big right now anyway.
Chalic on one should help you out; almost a pseudo protect the queen.
My meta has a lot of burn, humans, dredge, fish, eldrazi, and bant. Platinum Angel with Chalice on one is very strong, but I think mainboard Silent Arbiter could do us pretty good in this meta with the new agro hollow one/ vengevine decks out there. I'm gonna start trying it out in place of the new Karn because he's been more meh for me more than anything.
2-1 Jeskai Control: 1st match was one sided for me countering threats and solving a mindslaver, 2nd match he won bolting snap-bolting me, 3rd match on the play island - fetch - tronland - fetch end of turn - squelch, gg he was behind a land all game and I sundering titan to victory.
1-1 UW Control: This is a slightly difficult matchup because of field of ruin and spreading seas, He manages to win a very grindy long game, second game I squelch a fetch into a surgical hitting 2 fetchs in hand, we grind anyway, but ballista took the game.
2-0 Storm: First game I'm on the draw but hit a gemstone so turn 2 i could counter with condescend Baal, scry my Chalice to top, turn 3 no big plays, turn 4 of him I thirst EOT to bait gifst ungiven, he plays it, on my turn chalice on 2 gg - 2nd match Chalice on 2 gg.
2-0 Burn: 1st game I play chalice on 1 quickly eating almost all his hand then wurmcoil, game 2 I counter some threats and then chalice on 2, after that I play ballista killing his stuff then gg.
2-0 BW midrange: This is an advantageous matchup for us because it's like a not so agressive jund, chalice on 1 eats paths and discard, then counter gideons and remand the flashbacks of lingering souls you don't need tron to win, just wait turn 8 for Ugin.
I'm pretty happy with the list, but I always keep changing the list, I'm testing!
I used to main deck a single squelch but stopped. I never thought about having it in the SB instead. Keeping the opponent on one land game 2 or 3 seems like a huge tempo gain.
How did it perform? You keeping them in the side?
The only way I see that happening is running a combination of [river of tears] and [sunken ruins] keep in mind this will make you weaker to [blood moon].
If i have trinket mage in the main deck, i usually have a grafdiggers cage in the sideboard. I always have surgical as it is the best answere to the fast graveyard based decks. Relic always feels kind of expensive since you really want to keep one mana up to crack when needed. It is hard to say what is correct though but I have felt that I need answeres against fast decks more than against slow decks, so surgical have felt best overall. It is also important against G tron
I tried going without trinket mage myself but decided on putting him back in. Against all these go-wide decks, Tolaria West isn’t cutting it. It helps trading off/chumping and grabbing explosives for next turn.
It makes it more consistent in my experience.
I’m tninking of sideboardinh inkwell leviathan aginst the control matchups. They’ve been a pain recently.
Seems like a very long stretch. Even people playing new Karns have pretty much settled on playing just 1.
I like the card a ton (and the art is slick as hell) and I want to build around it alongside Karn really bad, but I don't think U Tron is the shell. The tron lands seem mostly pointless if your goal is to plus him into the ult anyway and you REALLY want to curve out Karn -> Tezz with him which will not happen often and means tapping out for two turns. I like new Karn a ton because I can just natural tron into him t3 (which is awesome with a talisman out for U mana/counter backup) and late-game I am not tapping down my U sources to drop a must-answer walker.
I mean, I just like Tezzeret's style so I'm gonna grab one and jam it in there for funsies, but just like Jace I think he busts hard for us.
Agreed. I think drawing 2 cards every turn he’s out is doable in the talisman builds, but it might be win more at that point.
I could maaaaaybe see it in the SB aggainst aggro? It would also help activate engineered explosives to help wipe the board. But I'll admit this is a long stretch and you might blow it up in the process.
I don´t want to be in the situation where I have to choose rather suspend AV or keep the Island for Spell Pierce. And I prefere to fill the graveyard with a creature rather than stop a IoK or Thougtseize.
All Magic decks in Modern have different choices that you will have to make as the game progresses. Our deck is no different. Learning how to sequence your cards is part of learning how to play a deck.
If we are a combo deck, which we are, I think we can't afford playing Spell Pierce or Spell Snare.
I disagree. The counterspells you mentioned are essential to furthering the deck's primary gameplan by allowing the deck to interact in a mana neutral or positive way with many of the threats and answers in Modern that can potentially beat our deck. They also interact well with a resolved As Foretold.
I have to agree that you have to at least be able to survive the first few turns to make it out alive for the combo. Even the most recent deck that top 8'd (see below) played some sort of interaction to survive however they played swan song instead of spell pierce. They also main deck'd spell snare. I like swan song because living end and bouncing make it irrelevant. Swan song is also more relevant late game when they'll likely have more mana available. I do understand it makes us more vulnerable to planeswalkers and affinity, but I think that's a meta call and we also have ceremonious rejections for those.
I've never thought of censor, but I think it's perfect. You can remand a threat if it poses no immediate threat or censor it if it does. Censor pays off late game to keep drawing cards.
how is this deck doing in the new meta? what are its worst MU??
Not too bad I don't think. Worst thing is burn and graveyard hate, but we can cast our creatures anyway. Humans kinda sucks too, but I mean it got top 8 on Saturday...
Magic Aids using giver of Runes to protect your infect guys seems legit.
https://youtu.be/HpQ7CUwBRVY
This is a fair evaluation of the card. Digging 3 deep on turn 2 in this building could be too slow. Of course, I was looking at it to supplement the remands we currently have. Depending on the situation, I’d rather have remand up than cast ideas unbound. However, in some instances with really aggressive aggro decks, like hollow one and affinity, maybe even humans, elves, merfolk, spirits, resetting the board with living end can be dire. I’ve tested 3 and it’s been okay.
And about rabbit...don’t get your panties in a knot man. It’s just a question. I’ve seen some articles on ideas unbound on the web and thought it could be strong here. No need to blow an artery and stroke out on your keyboard every time someone posts something you don’t agree with.
Saying this card is retarded because of card disadvantage is a feeble argument. One card to dig/loot/fix 3 cards isn’t something to shake it and may be worth a look.
Agreed. The new tutor in the Grixis version is pretty great. By no means is that deck inferior to the blue version. End of turn, tutoring a goryo’s for the win or a living end to board wipe is nuts. The amount of card draw and looting the red version runs to put a flip jace, griselbrand, or the other creatures is very consistent.
I’ll go as far to say that in the right shell ( a squee goblin or street wraith shell possibly), this new tutor may be on the same level as summoner’s pact for Primeval Titan. Except there’s no real reason to end of turn summoner’s pact obviously... and prime time needs 6 mana. And that’s a big leg up already.
I think he’s well suited right now. Worst case scenario he eats two bolts or a path which will ramp you to Wurmcoil next turn. Just look out for flector mage and kolaghans command, but Jund or Grixis isn’t big right now anyway.
Chalic on one should help you out; almost a pseudo protect the queen.
Thoughts?
I used to main deck a single squelch but stopped. I never thought about having it in the SB instead. Keeping the opponent on one land game 2 or 3 seems like a huge tempo gain.
How did it perform? You keeping them in the side?
I tried going without trinket mage myself but decided on putting him back in. Against all these go-wide decks, Tolaria West isn’t cutting it. It helps trading off/chumping and grabbing explosives for next turn.
It makes it more consistent in my experience.
I’m tninking of sideboardinh inkwell leviathan aginst the control matchups. They’ve been a pain recently.
Agreed. I think drawing 2 cards every turn he’s out is doable in the talisman builds, but it might be win more at that point.
Key word is MIGHT.
Just wish it didn’t take 5 turns to ultimate.
I have to agree that you have to at least be able to survive the first few turns to make it out alive for the combo. Even the most recent deck that top 8'd (see below) played some sort of interaction to survive however they played swan song instead of spell pierce. They also main deck'd spell snare. I like swan song because living end and bouncing make it irrelevant. Swan song is also more relevant late game when they'll likely have more mana available. I do understand it makes us more vulnerable to planeswalkers and affinity, but I think that's a meta call and we also have ceremonious rejections for those.
I've never thought of censor, but I think it's perfect. You can remand a threat if it poses no immediate threat or censor it if it does. Censor pays off late game to keep drawing cards.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18774&d=317446&f=MO
Not too bad I don't think. Worst thing is burn and graveyard hate, but we can cast our creatures anyway. Humans kinda sucks too, but I mean it got top 8 on Saturday...
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18774&f=MO