In an effort to understand color pie relationships - specifically enemy color pairings - I was wondering what the community thinks would be some reasons that a color would be driven together with its enemies rather than its allies?
I'll start by discussing my favorite wedge:
GUB
I think the core answer lies in how the colors view the world. I think GUB all try to see the world as it is, while RW sees the world through different lenses: emotion and morality, respectively. Just like UB, Green wants to understand the world. Red and White don't try to understand it, instead imposing their own explanations for why things happen. Why did the behemoth trample our village? RW would say that it's because the behemoth is mean and evil, and that we deserve retribution on the beast. UB would be able to recognize that it was because the village (stupidly) was built in the way of a behemoth migratory path. It's just how a behemoth do.
Every wedge represents a compromise. In GUB, Green gives up some of its harmony heart and gains greater understanding.
In BR, White sees colors that are about action, and getting things done. UG is one of the most contemplative color pairs, which is great when White is in a planning mood - but White has another side that's drawn to action. A person is suspected of a horrible crime, and while we wait for evidence and take every precaution they're escaping! BR understand this urgency for swift justice in White.
The compromise here? By being less scrupulous, White gains results.
In RG, Blue finds colors that really share its love of change. WB want to create a stable system, where their interests are protected. WB want to get the world to a certain point and keep it there. They have no appreciation of the wonders of the universe! Boring, boring boring! RG knows that you can't learn about the world from way up in an ivory tower.
By giving up its machinations, Blue indulges curiosity.
In GW, Black finds colors that are practically minded. UR is probably the least grounded color pair, and I can't help but think that Black would get tired of the combination's love of useless esoteric knowledge. Those fools would rather spend their time debating the existence of the newest particle or theory of the universe . WG understands that sometimes you don't need ingenious solutions; sometimes you just need something time-tested that works.
I'll be honest, this one gives me the most trouble. So, what does BG represent that Red doesn't like? Maybe it's that they're a little too comfortable with death for Red's taste. WU represent security and safety, partners that will protect Red when it's feeling scared. Black and Green aren't the most comforting colors. If your Nana is eaten by a wumpus, Black will say she was weak while green will say it's just nature's way. WU understands that there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be part of the food chain.
By giving up some of its freedom, Red gains security.
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So that's my take on it. Let me know what you think and please post your own interpretations!
EDIT/DISCLAIMER: I understand RW the least out of any color combination, so I apologize for offering an undoubtedly skewed view of it. I welcome corrections and alternate interpretations!
I think the lure of extreme characters is too much for designers to resist. As stated previously, Red also suffers from this treatment. The Bant colors have long been more immune (though there were still cards like Tivadar's Crusade) and are only now really beginning to see more regular portrayals of the extremes for these colors - White's oppressive control, Blue's callous experimentation, and Green's mindless instinct.
Black is described as seeking power through opportunity. What is rarely acknowledged is that the power sought does not have to be over others. Cards that represent self-sacrifice to advance one's own goals (like Necropotence or Vampiric Tutor) have always been present, cards depicting sacrifice of others are much more common.
I think in story terms what tends to get in the way of this depiction is that even with "good" Black characters someone always tries to stop what they're doing, which tends to bring out the worst in Black (and usually makes for good storytelling). Also, like Red, its "softer" side is often not on display due to the combat-oriented nature of the game.
Sorin is probably currently our best example of heroic Black in Magic, and seems to be the most benign incarnation of Black's "Have it your way" philosophy. His quote on Deadly Wanderings ("Solitude is only an option for the strong.") gives insight into how a non-malevolent Black character could operate - to be able to do what you want requires power. Neither your goals or your means of acquiring power necessarily involve evil.
Do they need to seek world domination? No.
Black may not care about Freedom (capital f), but it does care about free will more than any other color (Blue is a very close second in this). I think that there is something heroic in wanting to be in control of your own destiny.
(On a side note, Red's another color that gets it's positive sides never shown on cards. How have we not gotten an Act of Treason effect flavored as falling in love yet?
I agree with all of your assignments. However, for B/R I really liked Lorwyn's Boggarts. It was nice to see a toned-down representation of this combination, that spoke to the 'Do what you wanna do' vibe without all the cannibalism.
1. What colors of mana would you find acceptable to wield? Which ones would you disapprove of?
Black for combat, because it has the most effective tools for survival. Would probably also use Red for explosions and Blue for quick-thinking. I think I would stay away from Green and White because summoning anything remotely sentient to battle in my name seems cruel and conceited.
Outside of combat, I would probably be most comfortable with Blue and Green, with some Black for self-sufficiency.
2. Out of the revealed planes, which one would your prefer as your home? Which would you most likely avoid? Why?
For my home plane, probably Dominaria. It's settled down now that the time rifts are healed, and there seems to be a lot less crazy there than a majority of planes visited.
Going to agree with the majority that New Phyrexia is the one I'd stay far, far away from.
I can also imagine Ravnica would lead to some really bad days...Such as:
You drag yourself out of bed after another sleepless night thanks to your Rakdos neighbors (you gave up after the last time you went over and told them that you "don't care that it's the 302nd Anniversary of Blood you need to keep it down because I have work in three hours" and they immediately started having screaming contests) and attempt an invigorating shower. Unfortunately, your water is still off due to the Izzet "re-imagining" of the waterworks project which started last Wednesday (since then you've watched the team dwindle to two goblins after the power-grid "paradigm shift" began a day later). You decide to try that bar of Simic waterless soap a friend gave you, but unfortunately it gives you a rash on your arm. You give up and head to work.
You're walking through the market and nature calls (no, not the voice of Mat'Selesnya) and dart into a store to use the restroom. By doing so, you've unwittingly broken Azorius Statute A386C.O by using a restroom without being a paying customer. Your arm starts to itch. A minotaur in the Boros League brings you in for trial (after roughing you up a bit because you're a troublemaker and he doesn't like your face). Your Orzhov court-appointed legal representative manages to get the charges dropped, but her outrageous fees put you so deep in debt that you're forced into indentured servitude for the next 600 years. As you try to sign the agreement forms (which your councilor assures you is the only alternative to immediate execution) you're shocked to discover that your arm is scarcely recognizable and seems to be hungry. You are able to manage an 'X' before your former palm ingetts the quill.
While you try to come to terms with your fate, a Gruul plaintiff's flatulence ignites the unstable core of the Izzet-designed air-conditioning system, killing you instantly. As you depart for the afterlife to be reunited with that phytohydra you never watered, you suddenly awaken to find yourself faced with representatives of the Obzedat debating with members of the Azorius over where you will serve out the remainder of your eternity. As a Golgari undertaker drags your corpse away to be reanimated as a farmhand, your once-arm detaches itself and scuttles off into a stormdrain. A trio of dryads interrupts the discourse, singing that you belong to the Worldsoul (your phytohydra vouched for you). In an nearby alleyway, you see a dark-cloaked figure laughing deviously and you have no idea why.
3. List these factors in order of how they impact your decisions: morality, information, ambition, emotion, instinct.
Ambition > Information > Instinct > Morality > Emotion. Though my ambitions tend to be modest, and not malevolent.
4. List these items in order of most essential, to least: laws, technology, wealth, freedom, nature.
Freedom > Wealth (which I interpret as having what you need, not necessarily excess) > Nature > Laws > Technology
5. Which of these is most important? A. Your nation B. The multiverse C. Yourself D. Your loved ones E. Your immediate family
C. Yourself
6. How do you express yourself? List all that apply. A. Supporting the permissible actions of my culture. B. Showing the depth of my knowledge. C. Proving I am stronger than those around me. D. Doing whatever crosses my mind at that exact moment. E. Fulfilling my natural role.
B. Showing the depth of my knowledge.
(C. Seems wasteful, and I don't really understand what is meant by A. and E.)
I think it's a big mistake to blur the big conflicts between the colors into a spectrum. Morality is a defining feature of W, to which B stands in contrast. A good way to sum up B's viewpoint on morality is that nothing is off the table when considering how to accomplish its goals - morals are an unnecessary restraint.
In the G vs. B conflict, Life is a primary tool of G. G benefits from having access to the full cycle of life. G accepts Death, and honestly probably has a better understanding of its place in the cycle than B, which sees no inherent value in understanding the cycle except inasmuch as it benefits B. In contrast, B focuses on Death as a tool, which it views as the most exploitable part of the cycle.
I'll start by discussing my favorite wedge:
GUB
I think the core answer lies in how the colors view the world. I think GUB all try to see the world as it is, while RW sees the world through different lenses: emotion and morality, respectively. Just like UB, Green wants to understand the world. Red and White don't try to understand it, instead imposing their own explanations for why things happen. Why did the behemoth trample our village? RW would say that it's because the behemoth is mean and evil, and that we deserve retribution on the beast. UB would be able to recognize that it was because the village (stupidly) was built in the way of a behemoth migratory path. It's just how a behemoth do.
Every wedge represents a compromise. In GUB, Green gives up some of its
harmonyheart and gains greater understanding.________________________________________________________
WBR
In BR, White sees colors that are about action, and getting things done. UG is one of the most contemplative color pairs, which is great when White is in a planning mood - but White has another side that's drawn to action. A person is suspected of a horrible crime, and while we wait for evidence and take every precaution they're escaping! BR understand this urgency for swift justice in White.
The compromise here? By being less scrupulous, White gains results.
_______________________________________________________________
URG
In RG, Blue finds colors that really share its love of change. WB want to create a stable system, where their interests are protected. WB want to get the world to a certain point and keep it there. They have no appreciation of the wonders of the universe! Boring, boring boring! RG knows that you can't learn about the world from way up in an ivory tower.
By giving up its machinations, Blue indulges curiosity.
________________________________________________________________
BGW
In GW, Black finds colors that are practically minded. UR is probably the least grounded color pair, and I can't help but think that Black would get tired of the combination's love of useless esoteric knowledge. Those fools would rather spend their time debating the existence of the newest particle or theory of the universe . WG understands that sometimes you don't need ingenious solutions; sometimes you just need something time-tested that works.
By giving up its scheming, Black gains solidity.
_____________________________________________________
RWU
I'll be honest, this one gives me the most trouble. So, what does BG represent that Red doesn't like? Maybe it's that they're a little too comfortable with death for Red's taste. WU represent security and safety, partners that will protect Red when it's feeling scared. Black and Green aren't the most comforting colors. If your Nana is eaten by a wumpus, Black will say she was weak while green will say it's just nature's way. WU understands that there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be part of the food chain.
By giving up some of its freedom, Red gains security.
_________________________________________________
So that's my take on it. Let me know what you think and please post your own interpretations!
EDIT/DISCLAIMER: I understand RW the least out of any color combination, so I apologize for offering an undoubtedly skewed view of it. I welcome corrections and alternate interpretations!
Jund has little necromancy. Instead, the flesh of its dead gives rise to algal fiends.
I think the lure of extreme characters is too much for designers to resist. As stated previously, Red also suffers from this treatment. The Bant colors have long been more immune (though there were still cards like Tivadar's Crusade) and are only now really beginning to see more regular portrayals of the extremes for these colors - White's oppressive control, Blue's callous experimentation, and Green's mindless instinct.
Black is described as seeking power through opportunity. What is rarely acknowledged is that the power sought does not have to be over others. Cards that represent self-sacrifice to advance one's own goals (like Necropotence or Vampiric Tutor) have always been present, cards depicting sacrifice of others are much more common.
I think in story terms what tends to get in the way of this depiction is that even with "good" Black characters someone always tries to stop what they're doing, which tends to bring out the worst in Black (and usually makes for good storytelling). Also, like Red, its "softer" side is often not on display due to the combat-oriented nature of the game.
Sorin is probably currently our best example of heroic Black in Magic, and seems to be the most benign incarnation of Black's "Have it your way" philosophy. His quote on Deadly Wanderings ("Solitude is only an option for the strong.") gives insight into how a non-malevolent Black character could operate - to be able to do what you want requires power. Neither your goals or your means of acquiring power necessarily involve evil.
Do they need to seek world domination? No.
Black may not care about Freedom (capital f), but it does care about free will more than any other color (Blue is a very close second in this). I think that there is something heroic in wanting to be in control of your own destiny.
Great discussion all!
Hazy Homunculus They hide in dreams and whispers and faraway thoughts.
Enthralling Victor is the closest I can think of at the moment...
Black for combat, because it has the most effective tools for survival. Would probably also use Red for explosions and Blue for quick-thinking. I think I would stay away from Green and White because summoning anything remotely sentient to battle in my name seems cruel and conceited.
Outside of combat, I would probably be most comfortable with Blue and Green, with some Black for self-sufficiency.
2. Out of the revealed planes, which one would your prefer as your home? Which would you most likely avoid? Why?
For my home plane, probably Dominaria. It's settled down now that the time rifts are healed, and there seems to be a lot less crazy there than a majority of planes visited.
Going to agree with the majority that New Phyrexia is the one I'd stay far, far away from.
I can also imagine Ravnica would lead to some really bad days...Such as:
You're walking through the market and nature calls (no, not the voice of Mat'Selesnya) and dart into a store to use the restroom. By doing so, you've unwittingly broken Azorius Statute A386C.O by using a restroom without being a paying customer. Your arm starts to itch. A minotaur in the Boros League brings you in for trial (after roughing you up a bit because you're a troublemaker and he doesn't like your face). Your Orzhov court-appointed legal representative manages to get the charges dropped, but her outrageous fees put you so deep in debt that you're forced into indentured servitude for the next 600 years. As you try to sign the agreement forms (which your councilor assures you is the only alternative to immediate execution) you're shocked to discover that your arm is scarcely recognizable and seems to be hungry. You are able to manage an 'X' before your former palm ingetts the quill.
While you try to come to terms with your fate, a Gruul plaintiff's flatulence ignites the unstable core of the Izzet-designed air-conditioning system, killing you instantly. As you depart for the afterlife to be reunited with that phytohydra you never watered, you suddenly awaken to find yourself faced with representatives of the Obzedat debating with members of the Azorius over where you will serve out the remainder of your eternity. As a Golgari undertaker drags your corpse away to be reanimated as a farmhand, your once-arm detaches itself and scuttles off into a stormdrain. A trio of dryads interrupts the discourse, singing that you belong to the Worldsoul (your phytohydra vouched for you). In an nearby alleyway, you see a dark-cloaked figure laughing deviously and you have no idea why.
3. List these factors in order of how they impact your decisions: morality, information, ambition, emotion, instinct.
Ambition > Information > Instinct > Morality > Emotion. Though my ambitions tend to be modest, and not malevolent.
4. List these items in order of most essential, to least: laws, technology, wealth, freedom, nature.
Freedom > Wealth (which I interpret as having what you need, not necessarily excess) > Nature > Laws > Technology
5. Which of these is most important? A. Your nation B. The multiverse C. Yourself D. Your loved ones E. Your immediate family
C. Yourself
6. How do you express yourself? List all that apply. A. Supporting the permissible actions of my culture. B. Showing the depth of my knowledge. C. Proving I am stronger than those around me. D. Doing whatever crosses my mind at that exact moment. E. Fulfilling my natural role.
B. Showing the depth of my knowledge.
(C. Seems wasteful, and I don't really understand what is meant by A. and E.)
In the G vs. B conflict, Life is a primary tool of G. G benefits from having access to the full cycle of life. G accepts Death, and honestly probably has a better understanding of its place in the cycle than B, which sees no inherent value in understanding the cycle except inasmuch as it benefits B. In contrast, B focuses on Death as a tool, which it views as the most exploitable part of the cycle.