The plus is nice, giving us a bit of a damage-based wincon to help wear down opponents. The minus is mediocre, though it does give a way to kill off opposing planeswalkers or flyers that are smaller than 6. The ult I feel is a bit mediocre though. Yes, Storm Herd is a great card (and the first one I thought of when I saw it), but the lack of flying on the tokens and their inability to swing until the next turn makes it a bust for me.
I'd say if you're replacing a walker, I'd put Ajani Vengeant up first. The plus and minus as you said don't do much, and while his ult is one of the ways this deck has of dealing with combo deck (ruin their manabase and they can't do much) and overly ramping green decks (can't really ramp that much when all your lands are gone), new Jace is better for the plus and minus situations.
Vryn's is too good in my opinion. The card selection early is fantastic, and his walker side is strong. Breaking the creature-less feel to this deck is ok in my eyes, though he is rather bad with cards like The Abyss and Tabernacle which you have. He's worse than in my personal build since I don't have the budget for those, so it might be bad.
Tamiyo draws less cards most often, but being able to lock down a threat with her plus makes up for it. The ult is even more game-winning than Jace's as well, since being able to do stuff like cast a Wrath every turn is incredibly difficult for most any deck to fight through.
Ob Nix is the most similar, and could warrant being swapped out. The main concern is the "destroy" vs. "bounce" for me, though Jace definitely has the better plus. I feel like destroying creatures tends to be better, especially since it lets you remove threats like Avenger or Craterhoof (assuming you survive) without letting them play them again.
Kiora is perhaps the one I would replace? The lockdown ability is mostly ok, usually I find that there's too many threats for her to lock down, and the minus (while providing a neat explore benefit) is probably worse than Jace's plus. Jace also ults under Doubling Season, which I like a bit more.
One thing to consider is Planeswalker Uniqueness at this point. You run four iterations of Jace at the moment, and raising that to five could make it a bit more of a problem.
She's definitely playable, just not here. Tokens are nice, but being unable to make them repeatedly is not. The overrun is a cool thing, but not here. Even the ult takes one turn, even with Doubling Season.
Basically, not here, perhaps in a Xenagos deck or some such.
Anguished Unmaking is definitely better than Utter End in most cases. Going down one mana for 3 life lost shouldn't be too bad I think, and exiling as has been said also will help deal with cards like Vampire Hexmage and Thief in Blood which are both run in one of my friend's Meren deck. Being able to get rid of those is very important otherwise I just can't play a planeswalker and expect it to survive the turn.
I'm still not sure what to think of Nahiri. Rummaging is definitely worse than looting for this deck, since we're less concerned with pitching stuff to the graveyard, and dropping a potentially valuable card for a land that we don't need is just sad. The -2 does have synergy with Ral and Tamiyo, potentially Ajani as well, but unless your meta has a fair amount of good enchantments to be exiling I don't think she's that worthwhile. Worth mentioning that she is a repeatable answer for Gods outside of Karn or Ugin, but unless Gods are really prevalent I don't see her being that worthwhile, especially since this iteration really doesn't have anything that you'd love to grab with the -8, outside of maybe Divining Top (despite it being a really sad tutor).
I've had a bit of trouble with The Chain Veil as well. I've cast it only a few times, and I'd almost like to run another extra turn spell or some other spell before it, since it needs 8 mana and a Planeswalker who you want to activate more than once for that price.
Meekstone is a rather good card that's very useful, though it shuts down the Sliver Queen Voltron plan.
I do. It's not bad, a bit slow. Sometimes I find that I don't have anything good to return, or that returning some things won't do much. Overall, it's not a fantastic card necessarily, but it's... not terrible.
I will eventually get Fetchlands, but that's really one of the later upgrades for me. I wouldn't want to get them one at a time, plus I'd be getting them (probably) alongside a Crucible of Worlds so that makes it far outside of my budget at the moment.
EDIT: The first two tutors seem like easy inclusions, and I'll probably obtain both of those and possibly Yawgmoth's Will. Not sure what I'll be replacing for them. The main reason for not picking up JTMS is because I don't have a lot of shuffling, so his brainstorm ability is far weaker than it usually is and I don't want to include him when he won't help as much as I hope.
If you're trying to go a bit more budget on the lands, I run 10 Checklands and 10 Shocks, which is about as low as I'm willing to go on the manabase. You can go with taplands, but it comes at a huge loss of tempo that can outright lose you games.
Also, I was going to inquire as to cards you'd recommend as improvements to my list. (assuming about $100 worth of cards to upgrade, excluding stuff like Fetchlands and such). The immediate cards that come to mind are stuff like Academy Ruins, Gilded Lotus, and perhaps Bitterblossom? I do want a bit of input on it, as I'm not quite sure what to add in. Bitterblossom is nice as it fills in a bit of my flying problem, Gilded Lotus speeds up my mana and synergizes with Tezzeret and Teferi, and Academy Ruins lets me run out artifacts a lot more without as many cares if they get hit by Naturalize or some such.
Yeah. I'm personally dropping Blue Sun's Zenith for Oath of Jace, since I almost never cast the spell. It'll improve the deck since I'll actually cast Oath of Jace.
I agree on most points. Chandra is still a tough pick for me, especially as her boardwipe ability only goes to 4 damage which may be enough for some metas. The 0 also frustrates me, as I simply don't run as much recursion as you. (No Crucible, and I hate discarding my hand in general). I dunnno, I feel like if you have recursion it's fine, or if you find the discard not to be that bad. But I just like keeping my hand normal.
I still find Chaos Warp to be quite powerful, but to each their own. I'll likely bother here again once I've updated my list with the Oaths (Planning on running both Jace and Gideon's, but no other updates. No funds yet for Nissa at the moment (she's still ~18 at time of writing), but she'll find a spot eventually.
I'd be very interested. I recognize however, that a budget version of this deck would still be expensive, given the expense of PWs and many other great cards being expensive.
Looking into cheaper alternatives for expensive cards would be important, and you'd likely want to run creatures. You can't really afford to run creatureless since The Abyss and Tabernacle are so expensive. I feel going more into a token theme would be better for budgets, since that lets you protect your Planeswalkers easily while still having relatively expendable blockers.
Out of the cards you mentioned, so long as I played Lethal Vapors after Peacekeeper, then I'm fine, and a Humility will usually end up with me having a bit of advantage especially if I'm able to pump out tokens. Having a Peacekeeper on board also makes post-Humility better, since it immediately comes back online. Occasionally I'll boardwipe while I have Peacekeeper on board, just because the board behind it is getting to intimidating, and one piece of spot removal means that I'm in a lot of trouble.
So do I. I don't have the money for cards like The Abyss, but I expect that Peacekeeper will be slotted out as I get more ways to make the board hostile to creatures.
Tezzeret the Seeker is one of my favourite planeswalkers in my build personally. However, for your deck I'd say it's okay to drop it, since the best things you can tutor for would be for Crucible, Torpor Orb, and perhaps Rings. However, if it usually doesn't end up going that well for you, then it should be fine... maybe. Dropping Chaos Warp means your removal suite goes down to 2 instant speed ways to deal with problematic permanents, so it's your meta call tbh. I don't like going that low on targeted removal though personally. Might be ok though.
How much do you generally draw with Rhystic Study/how much does the tax effect hurt people? The draw only cycles (effectively), but with Crucible you do have a way to get back pitched lands. Do you generally have enough card draw regardless of that? (Rhystic also lets opponents break Ensnaring Bridge, which is something to consider.) Oath of Gideon is pretty good, and I'd consider dropping Austere Command for it. Nev's disk provides an (albeit slow) way to get an instant speed mass removal for supercheap. Only drop Rhystic if you feel you get enough draw that Oath of Jace's lack of draw/fixing won't be that bad.
Liliana of the Veil is likely a really good one, and also ults under Doubling Season... and synergizes with The Abyss and others like that. I'd say that she's a good choice, especially if you find you need another forced sacrifice/hand disruption. Not sure who to drop in place... possibly Ajani Vengeant or some other?
Ahsiok is a bit slow, if you had to pick one I'd advise for LotV (though I'm not quite sure which is absolutely better).
I still don't like Voice of Zendikar for this deck. It's not my favourite PW tbh. The + is minor, making 0/1s is pretty bad. The -2 is possibly ok, especially for buffing your tokens... and the ult is a mini Sphinx's Revelation. I don't like it that much, since it doesn't ult under Doubling Season, and the + is very minor, while the - can be good with a token build. It might be ok though.
The plus is nice, giving us a bit of a damage-based wincon to help wear down opponents. The minus is mediocre, though it does give a way to kill off opposing planeswalkers or flyers that are smaller than 6. The ult I feel is a bit mediocre though. Yes, Storm Herd is a great card (and the first one I thought of when I saw it), but the lack of flying on the tokens and their inability to swing until the next turn makes it a bust for me.
Vryn's is too good in my opinion. The card selection early is fantastic, and his walker side is strong. Breaking the creature-less feel to this deck is ok in my eyes, though he is rather bad with cards like The Abyss and Tabernacle which you have. He's worse than in my personal build since I don't have the budget for those, so it might be bad.
Tamiyo draws less cards most often, but being able to lock down a threat with her plus makes up for it. The ult is even more game-winning than Jace's as well, since being able to do stuff like cast a Wrath every turn is incredibly difficult for most any deck to fight through.
Ob Nix is the most similar, and could warrant being swapped out. The main concern is the "destroy" vs. "bounce" for me, though Jace definitely has the better plus. I feel like destroying creatures tends to be better, especially since it lets you remove threats like Avenger or Craterhoof (assuming you survive) without letting them play them again.
Kiora is perhaps the one I would replace? The lockdown ability is mostly ok, usually I find that there's too many threats for her to lock down, and the minus (while providing a neat explore benefit) is probably worse than Jace's plus. Jace also ults under Doubling Season, which I like a bit more.
One thing to consider is Planeswalker Uniqueness at this point. You run four iterations of Jace at the moment, and raising that to five could make it a bit more of a problem.
Basically, not here, perhaps in a Xenagos deck or some such.
I'm still not sure what to think of Nahiri. Rummaging is definitely worse than looting for this deck, since we're less concerned with pitching stuff to the graveyard, and dropping a potentially valuable card for a land that we don't need is just sad. The -2 does have synergy with Ral and Tamiyo, potentially Ajani as well, but unless your meta has a fair amount of good enchantments to be exiling I don't think she's that worthwhile. Worth mentioning that she is a repeatable answer for Gods outside of Karn or Ugin, but unless Gods are really prevalent I don't see her being that worthwhile, especially since this iteration really doesn't have anything that you'd love to grab with the -8, outside of maybe Divining Top (despite it being a really sad tutor).
I'm guessing it's mostly Humility/Doubling Season?
Meekstone is a rather good card that's very useful, though it shuts down the Sliver Queen Voltron plan.
EDIT: The first two tutors seem like easy inclusions, and I'll probably obtain both of those and possibly Yawgmoth's Will. Not sure what I'll be replacing for them. The main reason for not picking up JTMS is because I don't have a lot of shuffling, so his brainstorm ability is far weaker than it usually is and I don't want to include him when he won't help as much as I hope.
Also, I was going to inquire as to cards you'd recommend as improvements to my list. (assuming about $100 worth of cards to upgrade, excluding stuff like Fetchlands and such). The immediate cards that come to mind are stuff like Academy Ruins, Gilded Lotus, and perhaps Bitterblossom? I do want a bit of input on it, as I'm not quite sure what to add in. Bitterblossom is nice as it fills in a bit of my flying problem, Gilded Lotus speeds up my mana and synergizes with Tezzeret and Teferi, and Academy Ruins lets me run out artifacts a lot more without as many cares if they get hit by Naturalize or some such.
I agree on most points. Chandra is still a tough pick for me, especially as her boardwipe ability only goes to 4 damage which may be enough for some metas. The 0 also frustrates me, as I simply don't run as much recursion as you. (No Crucible, and I hate discarding my hand in general). I dunnno, I feel like if you have recursion it's fine, or if you find the discard not to be that bad. But I just like keeping my hand normal.
I still find Chaos Warp to be quite powerful, but to each their own. I'll likely bother here again once I've updated my list with the Oaths (Planning on running both Jace and Gideon's, but no other updates. No funds yet for Nissa at the moment (she's still ~18 at time of writing), but she'll find a spot eventually.
Looking into cheaper alternatives for expensive cards would be important, and you'd likely want to run creatures. You can't really afford to run creatureless since The Abyss and Tabernacle are so expensive. I feel going more into a token theme would be better for budgets, since that lets you protect your Planeswalkers easily while still having relatively expendable blockers.
Out of the cards you mentioned, so long as I played Lethal Vapors after Peacekeeper, then I'm fine, and a Humility will usually end up with me having a bit of advantage especially if I'm able to pump out tokens. Having a Peacekeeper on board also makes post-Humility better, since it immediately comes back online. Occasionally I'll boardwipe while I have Peacekeeper on board, just because the board behind it is getting to intimidating, and one piece of spot removal means that I'm in a lot of trouble.
How much do you generally draw with Rhystic Study/how much does the tax effect hurt people? The draw only cycles (effectively), but with Crucible you do have a way to get back pitched lands. Do you generally have enough card draw regardless of that? (Rhystic also lets opponents break Ensnaring Bridge, which is something to consider.) Oath of Gideon is pretty good, and I'd consider dropping Austere Command for it. Nev's disk provides an (albeit slow) way to get an instant speed mass removal for supercheap. Only drop Rhystic if you feel you get enough draw that Oath of Jace's lack of draw/fixing won't be that bad.
Liliana of the Veil is likely a really good one, and also ults under Doubling Season... and synergizes with The Abyss and others like that. I'd say that she's a good choice, especially if you find you need another forced sacrifice/hand disruption. Not sure who to drop in place... possibly Ajani Vengeant or some other?
Ahsiok is a bit slow, if you had to pick one I'd advise for LotV (though I'm not quite sure which is absolutely better).
I still don't like Voice of Zendikar for this deck. It's not my favourite PW tbh. The + is minor, making 0/1s is pretty bad. The -2 is possibly ok, especially for buffing your tokens... and the ult is a mini Sphinx's Revelation. I don't like it that much, since it doesn't ult under Doubling Season, and the + is very minor, while the - can be good with a token build. It might be ok though.
EDIT: I also should place out my own build, so you can see that I kind of know what I'm talking about (a little bit): http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/5c-superfriends-v3/