Thanks for the feedback yuseimax! I have been testing a version close to yours and have since included a few collective brutality mainboard, it has consistently been useful. Especially in control matchups where you discard cards as a casting cost. Speaking of matchups vs control, these games feel outright outwinnable at times without drawing savage summoning. Counterspell or targeted discard, these matchups are rough when the deck is very one trick and the best thing you can do is feed the troll or play caryatids with delusional optimism that you'll actually cast a fatty in your deck like zetalpa. Basically, half of the deck are creatures that are virtually impossible to play so you're stuck with a lot of dead draws. Are there any ways to remedy this? How do I have better matchups vs control? I've seen some lists in the thread that try to take the approach of having an alternate game plan of being able to actually play your creatures but they end up being bad aggro decks and even worse midrange decks because of the lack of interaction. Maybe scale back the discard fodder and discard spells to rely on the grisly salvage and include more main deck interactive cards? I thought about lingering souls and unburial rites but that gameplan seems to flop when they include graveyard hate.
Hey all, I've been playing many variations of the deck and having a lot of fun with it. I want to build the deck in person but don't have the money to shell out for the fetchlands that I don't have. The deck can still be good as a budget with a little tweaking, and I was wondering if someone could entertain me and lend me their thoughts. I figured the deck would function best as black/green so I went with that. Any help is appreciated, especially with the mana! It's especially frustrating running the uktabi drake and having my only green source come into play tapped...
Thanks for the reply man. After testing several builds, I have come to the conclusion that you're right and he's too slow for modern. The best the deck can get has arcbound ravager and thopter, almost like eggs, almost like affinity, but a bad version of both. Still a cool deck, but doesn't work well. It's a shame that all the treasure token cards are awful.
Hey guys, I feel like marionette master could have potential in modern. However I don't know if it does have potential because it's expensive for modern. In order for it to work it would have to fit into either a good midrange shell or have some ramp. My first thought was playing mana rocks to ramp into Mario, and having a sac outlet to sac them for damage when Mario landed. The problem with this is that I can't get enough mana rocks (5) on the field before dropping marionette master, maybe turn 4, to kill the opponent. There are several ways that I could get 5 artifacts on the field by turn 4, eggs like mox opals, which could give a little ramp too. I figured my options were eggs, mana rocks, servo tokens, and the new treasure tokens. Sac outlets being either artifact or creature (viscera seer, atog). I figured needing a sac outlet might be tough because it would be subject to removal, which drew me to the new treasure mechanic because they can sac themselves. Treasure would be good with syndicate trafficer, who could use the mana to sac maybe servos, and the servos could get early damage in or block. I mapped out a rough list to start with, help is needed and appreciated!
Thanks for the reply as always egg_chen. I think you're right and I'm realizing that now. Many lists don't use pump spells for the tokens and benefit from the value alone but I think I want to take this deck in a direction that is more traditional grixis metalcraft. This deck has been performing really well though
Hey! What do y'all think about a grixis variant of the deck? It gains access to dream stalker which I usually feel is all we need for artifact bounce as well as cavern harpy which interacts nicely with bleak coven vampires. Thoughts?
Hey everyone, after playing Boros kitty wellspring I really liked how wellspring played with mulldrifter added and decided to put a twist on the deck. 3 color is hard to pull off in pauper, but the main colors are RU with a splash of black for late-game. I figured I didn't need white in the list when blue had dream stalker for permanent bounce (4 artifact bounce is usually enough when you're drawing into more springs and prisms) and cavern harpy lets me have late game inevitability with the ability to constantly draw, drain with bleak coven vampires, or bounce a dream stalker with reality acid (which normally sucks but is fun in this deck) that I have in my side board to deal with late game threats. Counterspell is for mid-late game, but my side board has a few relevant counters spells to deal with early game threats if needed. Advice is welcome- especially with the mana! Here's the list:
egg_chen good insight and Polac94 you're dead on with your tier analysis I see what you're saying, those cards may not fit your current list well but I also like feed the clan because of its early game potential. It being only worth it with a power 4 creature or higher fine because the direction we should be taking the deck anyway is creature beatdown aggro right? In that case we might do better with a solid GW beatdown creature value shell with midnight gond but i'm also testing a TE persist combo. Let me know how your testing goes and i'll get back to you all as well.
Polac94, thanks for the reply! I agree with your suggestions, they're all true. That was just a sample list, I'm still trying to find the right direction to go in for an aggro combo deck. Do you like/want to help work on an ago combo deck with persist (including TE as you recommended) or an aggro combo deck featuring midnight guard and gond? I feel that the TE persist aggro combo deck would be very effective, but not having played the deck itself I feel like it may durdle 'til it gets the combo together. Whereas the aggro combo gond deck only has midnight guard and gond as it's combo and can feature (possibly) creatures that have a lot of value. GW/x beatdown similar to how a standard/modern/legacy list would play, being new to the format doesn't give me an idea of how many solid creature cards are printed at common but I'll see if I can get an idea so we could theory craft a good shell.
I agree. For a creature based aggro beatdown deck that features a combo, would the persist list do well? or should we have a more solid stand-alone creature base in another shell that features the midnight gond combo as the infinite?
Polac94 and egg_chen I agree. I feel that the best way to go with this thread is a solid GW list. The starting place i'm unsure of, but I really like the idea of midnight gond in a GW possibly splashing black shell. It could even feature the ivy lane denizen persist sheninigans that egg_chen mentioned. That being said, let's develop a solid GW ago-combo deck! Do you all feel that midnight guard and gond is the right way to go? Or perhaps just with the standard ivy lane denizen persist strategy? I'll update the original post to reflect what we're working on when we can get together a solid list to feature and build upon.
Thanks for sharing your decklist! I really like that izzet infinite combo you have, its not modern legal but pauper legal. Do you have a list for it? And I REALLY like the creature based ivy lane denizen combo deck. I see a few versions online, names this one I saw knocking around: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bg-ivy-combo/ is that a good representation? I fell into the same thing recently with the token swarm gond deck, it was better off just going straight tokens most of the time and that carried the deck. I'll play around with junk TE to see what I can get going! Although I feel like the list will be very similar to the one I have now, a little more controlling with lightning bolts, electrickery, etc and i'll just have to jank out the combo that will win the first turn it hits now instead of the second.
Hey Polac94, thanks for replying and sharing your lists! I love your list that features midnight/gond and I agree with the fact that tortured existence is a very hated card, it's a giveaway to the deck's strategy the same way midnight guard is. So much so that I sometimes end up wanting to cut the combo out and go for a more aggressive approach the same way that you have with your TE list that has a nice clock.
The fact that midnight guard is such a warning signal bridges my reply to:
egg_chen, glad to see another creative fan of infinite combos! Thank you for your very detailed and insightful reply. You were right on the money with your analysis. I found myself in "fingers crossed" mode very recently in a game I played.
-The format I normally play, modern, has plenty of nice counterspell to protect the combo pieces. Does pauper have a solid enough suite to make that shell worth it?
-Baiting out my opponent's removal is a solid gameplay, and something I tried in an off-the-wall attempt with my TE deck. I feel that the deck would shine in the same way it does in modern- a solid creature value beatdown GW deck. Are there enough creatures printed at common to make a beatdown main/ side plan to midnight gond worth it?
-And finally- disguising my combo piece. In your opinion, how consistently does that work? I feel like it would work game 1 and the next few games they wouldn't fall for it. Still, I'd love to see your midnight/nettle gond disguise deck if you'd post it! Would it be worth it to go Midnight Gond with some red for impact tremors?
-What are some of the most successful infinite combos you've pulled off in pauper?
Hello all, I fell in love with the pauper format but am new to it. I'm trying to create a deck to play and keep going in a couple different directions with the list I'm sharing. One of the first decks that really caught my eye was the midnight guard/presence of gond deck touted as the "splinter twin" of pauper. A dedicated midnight gond deck can be very vulnerable to removal so a side plan to victory is needed. Most people go wide with tokens, whereas I've decided to try a more resilient to hate approach in tortured existence. Midnight Gond gives tortured existence some inevitability and TE gives Midnight Gond some resistance to removal. Thanks for reading, heres the list:
My question is, would I be better off playing midnight gond wide with tokens? And i've also thought of including thought picker witch for some top control. Or even going TE with thought picker witch with myr servitors as top control with classic TE antics. Has this been done?
28 Creature
4 Soulflayer
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Chromanticore
4 Samut, Voice of Dissent
4 Uktabi Drake
7 Instant
3 Grapple with the Past
19 Land
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Hissing Quagmire
1 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Temple of Malady
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Collective Brutality
15 Sideboard
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Beast Within
2 Nature's Claim
4 Thoughtseize
// 8 Artifact
4 Prying Blade
4 Mox Opal
// 23 Creature
3 Marionette Master
4 Weaponcraft Enthusiast
4 Syndicate Trafficker
4 Hangarback Walker
1 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Salvage Titan
4 Ornithopter
4 Fatal Push
// 19 Land
15 Swamp
4 Darksteel Citadel
// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 x Ponder
1 x Chainer's Edict
3 x Kuldotha Rebirth
Artifact:8
4 x Ichor Wellspring
4 x Prophetic Prism
Instant:12
4 x Counterspell
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Galvanic Blast
Creature:11
3 x Mulldrifter
4 x Dream Stalker
2 x Bleak Coven Vampires
2 x Cavern Harpy
4 x Bloodfell Caves
3 x Mountain
4 x Great Furnace
2 x Island
4 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Dismal Backwater
1 x Swiftwater Cliffs
3 x Dispel
1 x Reality Acid
2 x Hydroblast
3 x Shrivel
2 x Annul
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
2 x Snap
4 x Ponder
1 x Chainer's Edict
3 x Kuldotha Rebirth
Artifact:8
4 x Ichor Wellspring
4 x Prophetic Prism
Instant:12
4 x Counterspell
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Galvanic Blast
Creature:11
3 x Mulldrifter
4 x Dream Stalker
2 x Bleak Coven Vampires
2 x Cavern Harpy
4 x Bloodfell Caves
3 x Mountain
4 x Great Furnace
2 x Island
4 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Dismal Backwater
1 x Swiftwater Cliffs
3 x Dispel
1 x Reality Acid
2 x Hydroblast
3 x Shrivel
2 x Annul
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
2 x Snap
8 Forest
2 Golgari Rot Farm
4 Jungle Hollow
2 Mortuary Mire
6 Swamp
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Bloodflow Connoisseur
4 Carrion Feeder
1 Elvish Herder
1 Essence Warden
2 Eyeblight's Ending
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Ivy Lane Denizen
2 Nameless Inversion
2 Night's Whisper
2 Read the Bones
4 Safehold Elite
4 Unearth
4 Wirewood Herald
3 Gleeful Sabotage
3 Moment's Peace
3 Scattershot Archer
3 Wrap in Vigor
The fact that midnight guard is such a warning signal bridges my reply to:
egg_chen, glad to see another creative fan of infinite combos! Thank you for your very detailed and insightful reply. You were right on the money with your analysis. I found myself in "fingers crossed" mode very recently in a game I played.
-The format I normally play, modern, has plenty of nice counterspell to protect the combo pieces. Does pauper have a solid enough suite to make that shell worth it?
-Baiting out my opponent's removal is a solid gameplay, and something I tried in an off-the-wall attempt with my TE deck. I feel that the deck would shine in the same way it does in modern- a solid creature value beatdown GW deck. Are there enough creatures printed at common to make a beatdown main/ side plan to midnight gond worth it?
-And finally- disguising my combo piece. In your opinion, how consistently does that work? I feel like it would work game 1 and the next few games they wouldn't fall for it. Still, I'd love to see your midnight/nettle gond disguise deck if you'd post it! Would it be worth it to go Midnight Gond with some red for impact tremors?
-What are some of the most successful infinite combos you've pulled off in pauper?
2 Auramancer
1 Crypt Rats
1 Fume Spitter
3 Golgari Brownscale
2 Grave Scrabbler
2 Midnight Guard
1 Battlefield Scrounger
1 Sanitarium Skeleton
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Tilling Treefolk
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Krosan Tusker
2 Dead Weight
2 Presence of Gond
4 Tortured Existence
// 21 Land
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
4 Jungle Hollow
3 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
4 Swamp
// 4 Sorcery
4 Commune with the Gods
1 Abyssal Gatekeeper
2 Benevolent Bodyguard
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Obsidian Acolyte
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spore Frog
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Last Rites
My question is, would I be better off playing midnight gond wide with tokens? And i've also thought of including thought picker witch for some top control. Or even going TE with thought picker witch with myr servitors as top control with classic TE antics. Has this been done?