Well, I know I am more obsessed with my curve in each colour than most and I only refuse to play with Sol Ring, Propaganda, and Ghostly Prison (everything else is free game). However, partly because of that and partly because I love to durdle, not all of my card choices would be considered conventional.
Awesome, I'm a durdler too, so that might be a good fit to look at.
There is in fact a fantastic introduction to set skeletons in this thread. It's for custom sets, but it can absolutely be used as a guideline for your cube. I use it for mine. All you have to do is count how many cards your colored sections have and then calculate the new numbers for the curve.
You get a range (f.e. 10-13 one mana cards, 3,33 one drops for Black, 6,66 one drops for White and so on) and then you can easily adjust for what you want your colors to play like while always being able to compare your cube cuve to a conventional one.
This is great! Pretty much exactly what I wanted, between this, VariKami's and the average cube I think I'm in good shape!
Yeah, I looked at that quite a bit last night and have some ideas based on it. My concern is that I assume that average cube does not have the appropriate # of cards per CMC to develop a proper curve and effectively balance aggro vs control, but maybe that one is a decent starting point from that perspective too?
I just have no feel for how to structure spell vs creature counts, and CMC curve for creatures for each color. Maybe the best bet is to just calculate out the ratios of a couple of peoples' cubes and then apply the average cube to that ratio as a good starting point?
Was hoping for an easy shortcut to someone who has effectively done something similar and has a very "vanilla" peasant cube. Life just isn't that easy, haha.
Hey guys, haven't been around for about a year but am looking to overhaul my cube.
I'm wondering if any of the regular posters' cubes would be considered relatively "standard". I'm looking for a good baseline that doesn't have much banned, is running the most common/powerful stuff available and whatnot. I know everyone has their own take on it, and I've been comparing cubes, but it is pretty overwhelming without a foundation to work from.
I'm surprised to see so much discussion about breaking Peasant restrictions recently because the last few years' sets have delivered on exactly the one major gap that got me to break peasant a while back - high value/resilient fatties that actually pay off on archetypes like reanimator or ramp, and that go over the top of 4-mana_2-for-1.dec.
I am still struggling with making reanimator worth going for. What fatties are you talking about that are resilient and high-impact besides Pelakka Wurm and Plated Crusher? I am definitely looking for ideas.
I am definitely intrigued by the idea of adding lower power rares to the cube in order to bring interesting/fun effects to it (as rares tend to get the most unique/fun effects) and/or to support archetypes. I do think there is a general understanding of the power level of a peasant cube, as long as you define if you are using stuff like skullclamp/sol ring or not. Therefore, I think it is feasible to discuss the addition of rares that fall somewhere around that power level and that would add something interesting to the cube experience.
Yeah, I guess if people really care enough, we could argue about what the best name is for it, but that seems pretty unimportant to me. I'm just interested in seeing what cards people might throw in!
Had an idle thought about forum games - would anybody be interested in participating in a league style tournament?
The format would be 40 card constructed with the rules that your deck must be singleton and comprised of cards that you play in your peasant cube or in several other peasant cubes around here (no peasant+ cards allowed, strictly peasant). There's probably an argument to be made for banning certain cards too (Sol Ring, Skull Clamp) but this is just to gauge interest. Would deck switching be allowed or are you locked in from the get-go? Can you sideboard and if so, how many cards?
Would anyone be interested in participating? I envision a round robin format run over a month or two with a top2 (or top4 depending on numbers?) playoff.
This would probably be run through Cockatrice but you could also use something like Skype with webcam since most people here have all the cards
That sounds fun to me, I'm pretty horrible at deckbuilding but I'd definitely still give it a shot and boost others' confidence!
Another alternative (potentially in addition or after this little tournament) would be to have us all agree on one cube and do drafts of it on cube tutor and use the decks from the draft to play against each other on cockatrice or whatnot. It would probably require the honor system to not have people making up decks or doing multiple drafts, but seems like a fun idea to me.
The 3-mana Samurai seems really underwhelming. I like Sandsteppe Outcast and Mardu Hordechief a lot, both nice tokens/aggro cards that also have a little value for blinking. Agreed, I much prefer Sandsteppe Outcast, switched it out.
The 5-mana white Splicer is also not really up to the power level. It's fine enough, but way behind Custodi Squire for the same mana. Also agree here, not sure how I missed that, had Custodi Squire in at one point.
I'm pretty skeptical of the Honden cycle at a 480 cube -- if you draft with six people, nearly half of the cube will be left in the box (using 3 packs of 45) so it seems unlikely for a real "Honden" deck to come together, and most of them aren't good enough if they will usually get one trigger. I agree with your concern, they aren't all that viable but are pet cards of mine.
Augur of Bolas is jokingly referred to as "the guy that lets you see the bottom three cards of your deck"... which is hyperbole, but it really is a failure in a huge portion of games, even for the decks that want it most. I was never really sold on him and so I switched him out for pestermite for now.
You've got three mediocre blue 6-drops (not counting the solid Glasskite), which is 1-2 too many. I am not a huge fan of horizon scholar, but the first card that comes to mind that I wanted to put back in is mirror match which is another 6 drop.
Grab the Reins is a much worse Blind with AngerThis is another pet card, I agree it is sub-optimal but I love it too much.
I'm pretty skeptical of Longshot Squad compared to the white or black versions that can grant things like First Strike, Flying, Lifelink or Deathtouch. I have never gotten a chance to play with the mechanic, so I actually added some of the other ones you mentioned and will be testing them out.
Six cards per guild at 480 is a lot -- you'll end up with a lot of last-picked gold cards simply because nobody is in that color combination (especially if or when you draft with 4-6 people). Ten signets also will really warp the format toward 3+ color midrange goodstuff decks, at the expense of aggressive strategies. Hm, do people find it to be an issue having some last pick gold cards go around the table? I guess it limits decision making later in the pack a bit, I just like a lot of the gold cards and will have a hard time cutting a number of them. The inclusion of signets should reduce the number of gold cards that are useless as well right? I agree that they could be damaging to aggro overall though.
Kird Ape can get swapped into Gruul (you never play it in a non-Gruul deck), and cut probably the mediocre Fanatic of Xenagos. Good catch, done.
Drown in Filth seems like a much worse Grisly Salvage. I greatly prefer a draw effect on cards like that compared to the super-iffy removal of Drown. I'll test both, I'm interested in Drown in Filth, especially as I'm trying to get more towards removal that doesn't negate reanimation and ramp targets as easily.
Thanks for all the feedback, it is easy to miss so much of this when you are starting out!
I updated my cube, making a few cuts and trying to balance out the colors and place cards in their appropriate guild/color based on use. Also tried to strengthen support for some of the archetypes a bit. What do you guys think?
Also on the "crappy cardboard box" plan. I've got one 800-count box and a 640-count one, which is about right for 540 cards + 200 lands + I dunno how many tokens, with everything (even tokens!) double-sleeves.
Just to clarify you are saying the combined 1440 cards worth of storage space was sufficient for 800 some double sleeved cards right?
I am working on updating the cube and will then submit it for another round of critique but in the interim I have a different question.
How do people handle cube storage and transport? If my cube ends up at or above 500 sleeved cards (plus lands) it is going to get quite bulky and wonder if there are any nice products or creative ideas.
Doctor,I run a lot of mana rocks (including worn powerstone and basalt monolith and hedron archive) and I feel like they've been a revelation for my ramp strategies.
Roar of the wurm I also greatly prefer to penumbra wurm. Very little removal for a 6/6 actually kills it, and it fits into a graveyard strategy with fewer pieces.
Yeah, I'd like to think that it makes ramp possible while also giving aggro a chance if ramp plays to many mana rocks and doesn't defend well enough early. I'll probably still cut a few, as I have a lot, but it's good to hear you've had success with it.
Haha, thanks. Ninja of the Deep Hours is easily my favorite card ever. It rarely works out as well as I picture it in my head, but it is still so alluring.
Sorry for the double post, I'm struggling mightily with formatting the quotes and whatnot.
I'm a huge fan of Worm Harvest, for the record. I don't think Drown in Filth and scavenge cards are big enough rewards to push people into a graveyard deck. I agree with n00b that the saturation and payoff might not be there. I love it when people force Worm Harvest in my cube, but for the deck to work the pieces really need to fall together (much like reanimator) and sometimes that just doesn't happen. I imagine that could be an even bigger problem at a larger cube size. Delve is pretty rewarding. I never really found things like Boneyard Worm to be a huge incentive. Most cards like Stinkweed Imp and Darkblast reward playing the long game, so I'd suggest treating your graveyard deck like a control deck.
I think this makes a lot of sense. Rather than make a deck that is focused around graveyard effects, rather use them to augment certain decks. This makes me think I should include more delve cards to facilitate this.
You can run Ostracize or Despise instead, that's what I do. Yeah, I'll throw despise in there, thanks for the suggestion!
Green fatties: Penumbra Wurm is good for reanimator in that it has in-built resistance to removal and a bunch of the reanimator cards have "sac enchanted creature" type clauses. Did this get printed at uncommon at some point?
I would like to say that that in general at Peasant it's pretty hard to push strong archetype synergies at larger sizes.
Yeah, this is going to be really hard for me. I had a shell of a cube before that was in the 350 card range and I just worry that drafts will end up feeling too similar with that size pool. I like the novelty of getting cards in different combinations and not always seeing the same things. That being said, I know that the feeling of variety comes at the price of significantly weakening archetpyes. Really don't know what to do on that front, I will probably have to try actually testing it once I have it physically built and try it at different sizes.
You are suggesting cutting most of the mana rocks despite having a higher curve? Will that hurt ramp as an option too much or am I overvaluing the rocks?
Awesome, I'm a durdler too, so that might be a good fit to look at.
This is great! Pretty much exactly what I wanted, between this, VariKami's and the average cube I think I'm in good shape!
I just have no feel for how to structure spell vs creature counts, and CMC curve for creatures for each color. Maybe the best bet is to just calculate out the ratios of a couple of peoples' cubes and then apply the average cube to that ratio as a good starting point?
Was hoping for an easy shortcut to someone who has effectively done something similar and has a very "vanilla" peasant cube. Life just isn't that easy, haha.
I'm wondering if any of the regular posters' cubes would be considered relatively "standard". I'm looking for a good baseline that doesn't have much banned, is running the most common/powerful stuff available and whatnot. I know everyone has their own take on it, and I've been comparing cubes, but it is pretty overwhelming without a foundation to work from.
I am still struggling with making reanimator worth going for. What fatties are you talking about that are resilient and high-impact besides Pelakka Wurm and Plated Crusher? I am definitely looking for ideas.
Yeah, I guess if people really care enough, we could argue about what the best name is for it, but that seems pretty unimportant to me. I'm just interested in seeing what cards people might throw in!
That sounds fun to me, I'm pretty horrible at deckbuilding but I'd definitely still give it a shot and boost others' confidence!
Another alternative (potentially in addition or after this little tournament) would be to have us all agree on one cube and do drafts of it on cube tutor and use the decks from the draft to play against each other on cockatrice or whatnot. It would probably require the honor system to not have people making up decks or doing multiple drafts, but seems like a fun idea to me.
Thanks for all the feedback, it is easy to miss so much of this when you are starting out!
CubeTutor Link
Just to clarify you are saying the combined 1440 cards worth of storage space was sufficient for 800 some double sleeved cards right?
How do people handle cube storage and transport? If my cube ends up at or above 500 sleeved cards (plus lands) it is going to get quite bulky and wonder if there are any nice products or creative ideas.
Yeah, I'd like to think that it makes ramp possible while also giving aggro a chance if ramp plays to many mana rocks and doesn't defend well enough early. I'll probably still cut a few, as I have a lot, but it's good to hear you've had success with it.
Haha, thanks. Ninja of the Deep Hours is easily my favorite card ever. It rarely works out as well as I picture it in my head, but it is still so alluring.
I think this makes a lot of sense. Rather than make a deck that is focused around graveyard effects, rather use them to augment certain decks. This makes me think I should include more delve cards to facilitate this.
Yeah, this is going to be really hard for me. I had a shell of a cube before that was in the 350 card range and I just worry that drafts will end up feeling too similar with that size pool. I like the novelty of getting cards in different combinations and not always seeing the same things. That being said, I know that the feeling of variety comes at the price of significantly weakening archetpyes. Really don't know what to do on that front, I will probably have to try actually testing it once I have it physically built and try it at different sizes.
You are suggesting cutting most of the mana rocks despite having a higher curve? Will that hurt ramp as an option too much or am I overvaluing the rocks?