Just checking, but it wouldn't count as your land drop for the turn, right? Because when it enters it is still a creature until the trigger resolves? (Which also implies it wouldn't trigger landfall or any "when a land enters the battlefield" ability)?
Edit: Seems it isn't a trigger, it's a replacement effect? Confusing
I tend agree with FTW, giving up the white bombs doesn't seem like a valid option, they just outright win you the game. Gideon, Munda's, Displacer, Felidar, and the removal in W is only inferior to that in R, not U. Splashing U on a Wbc shell is not so consistent as it may seem, I tried it, I prefer to give up a few strong blue cards than to lose the consistency. Overall most solid deck I would propose with this pool is something like this
1) Just an observation, but you have a deck where Oath of Gideon is not only just playable but kind of awesome:
-the 2 tokens help enable Cohort
-you have 2 bombs with Anthem effects
-makes Gideon even better, which I didn't realize was possible (you can make the Emblem immediately and then in future turns start attacking with a bigger Gideon without having to lose an attack to make an emblem :|||)
-Support fodder
Well yes, in theory it is a pretty good card, I didn't draw it often enough to test everything out. Most of the time it was a worse Raise the Alarm to be honest. I could never cast this before Gideon, and only once did I get to play this on curve, but in that game honestly it didn't matter what 3 drop it was because it was the only game where I curved out perfectly and won very easily.
2) Warping Wail is a very weak card, especially with a small C splash. I'd cut it. You're not short on playables.
My reasoning for playing Warping Wail was that I would play the 3 decent colorless lands anyway, since it was very significant to be able to enable deathtouch on Slaughter Drone and be able to activate Eldrazi Displacer, which singlehandedly won me several games with multiple blinks per turn. So with that in mind, and knowing I'm low on 2 drops, and Wail can double up as ramp and often I also used it to remove the opponent's mana dorks early, it was a decent card throughout the day. Only in 1 game did I get it stuck in my hand without a way to play it, so maybe I could have indeed cut it out, but it was not as terrible as it seems.
3) White is low on both removal and early bodies, so I'd want to shore up both those weaknesses with the secondary color.
Exactly, like I said before those were the two things I mainly wanted to address with a second color.
4) I don't know if Wxc (i.e. colorless splash) is necessary. You have multiple A-grade cards with double white mana in the cost. You really don't want to miss hitting 2 white sources. The colorless cards don't add enough value compared to the raw power of your white bombs. I'd just go for the more consistent manabase.
Like I said, I needed to activate colorless abilities which proved to be very relevant, so the slight splash for c was passable. I never got a white card stuck in my hand for not having enough white mana generators, just once did I have to use Crumbling Vestige to provide the 2nd white to play Gideon on curve. The double B on Bloodbond Vampire was more troublesome and I do believe I could have sided it out.
Regarding your Wr deck suggestion, I thought of something along those lines when first building the deck, but I felt that with only 2 Cohort generators the synergy is not so much. I do like the more consistent early game and that is why I think a brew like this might have worked just as fine as well.
As for Wb, yeah it works, Cohort synergy was real in every game, Munda's Vanguard is outright unfair and Malakir Soothsayer is great value as well. Zulaport Chainmage is indeed the worse of the Cohort enablers, but it did allow me to get some 4-8 damage in in board stalls, which made it an ok card most of the time, from my experience. For some reason people were also very scared of him and used removal to kill it quickly, which worked nicely since then they'd be short on means to deal with the real bombs.
Colorless was actually truly great overall, I must say. Slaughter Drone threatening to simply kill their bombs with deathtouch meant most people had to make awkward plays to get around it. Eldrazi Displacer is obviously broken, killing tokens, Awakened lands lose their counters, removing attackers from combat, helping other creatures dodge removal, and even tapping the opponent's board for an alpha strike (I actually lost the last round because my opponent had 2 of these bad boys, 1 of them promo). Sea Gate Wreckage was also awesome, being able to trigger it several times in two different games, which I ended up winning. Then Kozilek's Channeler was simply a very solid card and I would not cut it for Kalastria Nightwatch. Yes there is some synergy there, but the Channeler was a big body, easy on the manabase, fixed colorless, ramped bigger things/more things.
But I do agree with some changes you proposed and I think I would change my deck like this:
+1 Bone Saw (I thought this was trash, then someone put it on a low attack/high resistance flyer and started doing damage!)
+1 Warden of Geometries (Theoretically good, but I never tested it, I'd give it a try)
+1 Silent Skimmer
+1 Kalastria Nightwatch
+1 Swamp
I think this would make things more consistent and overall more powerful. So thanks man! I will also definitely try to make the Wr work and see how it goes.
P.s.(for anyone wondering what is the purpose of this discussion after the tournament, well, I'm just a Limited enthusiast and I think learning and improving on what I've done might yield better results next time!)
Hey guys, so today was the pre-release for OGW and it was a blast! MY LGS held a normal tournament, not Two-Headed Giant. I did pretty well, with 32 players at the beginning, I ranked 2nd, going 4/0/1. Still, I have some doubts about the way I constructed my deck, and would like to hear your thoughts based on the sealed pool I got:
So looking at this pool I immediately wanted to make Wx Allies work, Gideon, Munda's Vanguard and Eldrazi Displacer were all bombs I wanted to play. The issues started when I had to pick a second color. So the main issue with the W pool was that there few early drops and removal, so I wanted a color to compensate for that. I didn't consider green, even if there are some good cards there and Saddleback Lagac was an all-star all day, I felt the WG was subpar. Blue offered some interesting choices, but didn't exactly fix either my problems, and there was a low Ally density as well. Then Red, R was very powerful, with plenty quality removal and creatures, but I simply felt that the Devoid archetype would not go too well with my main Ally-based strategy. So Black was my secondary color, despite the appalling lack of decent removal there.
I played WBu in the first 2 rounds, having decided to splash for blue based on the thinking that with both 2 in-color duals that generate blue, I could get away with it and play powerhouses there. Even though I won, and I didn't feel the deck was underperforming, I thought that I could cut the blue for more consistency, and changed it simply to WB allies. I performed well until the last round, losing 2-1 to a mirror match.
Some decisions I might have regretted were not mainbording the 2 Reaver Drone, which might have made up for my lack of decent 2 drops. And given the good Red and Blue, I'm still not sure I made the best choice in the end. The only deck that me was basically the same (including Gideon and Eldrazi), just more consistent in the first few turns, so maybe the splash for blue creatures or entirely cutting out black for red's removal might have been better in the end.
the underlying principle in Magic is that to do anything:
1) you must have permission (typically by the rules or an effect) AND
2) there must not be a restriction interdicting it.
The ruling is just re-affirming the second component of this principle.
Ah, good to know there was something like this in place. Thanks for the answers guys
Goblin Dark-Dwellers
{3}{R}{R}
Creature — Goblin
4/4
Menace
When Goblin Dark-Dwellers enters the battlefield, you may cast target instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
You cast the card during the resolution of the enters-the-battlefield ability, not later in the turn. If it’s a sorcery card, ignore the timing restrictions based on it being a sorcery card. Other timing restrictions, such as “Cast [this card] only during combat,” must be followed.
So why do these other restrictions still apply to the card cast by GDD? I understand some cards would make no sense if cast outside of combat, but I'd expect their effects to simply become innocuous in most cases. I.e. cards like Mirror Match would basically do nothing outside of combat since there are no attacking creatures (yes, I know Mirror Match can't be cast by GDD).
Hedron Alignment
{2}{U}
Enchantment
Hexproof
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may reveal your hand. If you do, you win the game if you own a card named Hedron Alignment in exile, in your hand, in your graveyard, and on the battlefield.
{1}{U}: Scry 1.
The Hedron Alignment in exile must be face up. If it’s face down, it won’t count, even if you are allowed to look at it.
So in my pov the ruling stating that even if you have this card on your exile, if it is face-down it will not count, seems contradictory to the card's effect. Why can you not just reveal it from exile, like you reveal the one on your hand? Why doesn't the card itself state then that it must be face-up in exile for the trigger to occur? And if for some very weird reason this becomes a morphed creature and is face-down in the battlefield, what then?
I understand these are not very relevant concerns most of the time, I'm just curious.
Edit: Seems it isn't a trigger, it's a replacement effect? Confusing
#97 Lord of the Pit
#205 Glimpse the Unthinkable
#215 Psychatog or Questing Phelddagrif
Edit: well, maybe not #97 and 205 because Iconic Masters I guess
1 Unknown Shores
1 Crumbling Vestige
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
7 Plains
7 Swamp
Creatures (16)
1 Makindi Aeronaut
2 Slaughter Drone
1 Vampire Envoy
1 Hagra Sharpshooter
1 Affa Protector
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Kor Sky Climber
1 Bloodbond Vampire
1 Silent Skimmer
1 Warden of Geometries
1 Kozilek's Channeler
1 Malakir Soothsayer
1 Kalastria Nightwatch
1 Munda's Vanguard
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Enchantments (2)
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Isolation Zone
Instants (3)
1 Tandem Tactics
1 Roil's Retribution
1 Mighty Leap
Artifacts (1)
1 Hedron Blade
Replying to your points:
Well yes, in theory it is a pretty good card, I didn't draw it often enough to test everything out. Most of the time it was a worse Raise the Alarm to be honest. I could never cast this before Gideon, and only once did I get to play this on curve, but in that game honestly it didn't matter what 3 drop it was because it was the only game where I curved out perfectly and won very easily.
My reasoning for playing Warping Wail was that I would play the 3 decent colorless lands anyway, since it was very significant to be able to enable deathtouch on Slaughter Drone and be able to activate Eldrazi Displacer, which singlehandedly won me several games with multiple blinks per turn. So with that in mind, and knowing I'm low on 2 drops, and Wail can double up as ramp and often I also used it to remove the opponent's mana dorks early, it was a decent card throughout the day. Only in 1 game did I get it stuck in my hand without a way to play it, so maybe I could have indeed cut it out, but it was not as terrible as it seems.
Exactly, like I said before those were the two things I mainly wanted to address with a second color.
Like I said, I needed to activate colorless abilities which proved to be very relevant, so the slight splash for c was passable. I never got a white card stuck in my hand for not having enough white mana generators, just once did I have to use Crumbling Vestige to provide the 2nd white to play Gideon on curve. The double B on Bloodbond Vampire was more troublesome and I do believe I could have sided it out.
Regarding your Wr deck suggestion, I thought of something along those lines when first building the deck, but I felt that with only 2 Cohort generators the synergy is not so much. I do like the more consistent early game and that is why I think a brew like this might have worked just as fine as well.
As for Wb, yeah it works, Cohort synergy was real in every game, Munda's Vanguard is outright unfair and Malakir Soothsayer is great value as well. Zulaport Chainmage is indeed the worse of the Cohort enablers, but it did allow me to get some 4-8 damage in in board stalls, which made it an ok card most of the time, from my experience. For some reason people were also very scared of him and used removal to kill it quickly, which worked nicely since then they'd be short on means to deal with the real bombs.
Colorless was actually truly great overall, I must say. Slaughter Drone threatening to simply kill their bombs with deathtouch meant most people had to make awkward plays to get around it. Eldrazi Displacer is obviously broken, killing tokens, Awakened lands lose their counters, removing attackers from combat, helping other creatures dodge removal, and even tapping the opponent's board for an alpha strike (I actually lost the last round because my opponent had 2 of these bad boys, 1 of them promo). Sea Gate Wreckage was also awesome, being able to trigger it several times in two different games, which I ended up winning. Then Kozilek's Channeler was simply a very solid card and I would not cut it for Kalastria Nightwatch. Yes there is some synergy there, but the Channeler was a big body, easy on the manabase, fixed colorless, ramped bigger things/more things.
But I do agree with some changes you proposed and I think I would change my deck like this:
-1 Warping Wail
-2 Expedition Raptor (I liked this a lot, but I do agree that the curve was a bit high because of the 5 drops
-1 Zulaport Chainmage
-1 Unknown Shores
+1 Bone Saw (I thought this was trash, then someone put it on a low attack/high resistance flyer and started doing damage!)
+1 Warden of Geometries (Theoretically good, but I never tested it, I'd give it a try)
+1 Silent Skimmer
+1 Kalastria Nightwatch
+1 Swamp
I think this would make things more consistent and overall more powerful. So thanks man! I will also definitely try to make the Wr work and see how it goes.
P.s.(for anyone wondering what is the purpose of this discussion after the tournament, well, I'm just a Limited enthusiast and I think learning and improving on what I've done might yield better results next time!)
1 Munda's Vanguard
White
1 Angelic Gift
1 Ghostly Sentinel
1 Stoneforge Acolyte
1 Isolation Zone
1 Affa Protector
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Mighty Leap
1 Kor Sky Climber
1 Roil's Retribution
1 Oath of Gideon
2 Expedition Raptor
1 Tandem Tactics
1 Makindi Aeronaut
Blue
1 Cultivator Drone
1 Umara Entangler
1 Windrider Patrol
1 Negate
1 Wave-Wing Elemental
1 Comparative Analysis
1 Dispel
1 Incubator Drone
1 Gravity Negator
1 Cyclone Sire
1 Clutch of Currents
1 Blinding Drone
1 Malakir Soothsayer
1 Bloodbond Vampire
2 Slaughter Drone
1 Zulaport Chainmage
1 Vampire Envoy
1 Hagra Sharpshooter
1 Silent Skimmer
1 Kalastria Nightwatch
1 Witness the End
2 Reaver Drone
1 Corpse Churn
Red
1 Touch of the Void
1 Embodiment of Fury
1 Akoum Flameseeker
1 Stonefury
1 Goblin Freerunner
1 Maw of Kozilek
1 Molten Nursery
1 Reality Hemorrhage
1 Kozilek's Sentinel
1 Brute Strength
1 Eldrazi Aggressor
1 Cinder Hellion
1 Kozilek's Return
Green
1 Tajuru Beastmaster
1 Plated Crusher
1 Oran-Rief Hydra (foil)
1 Territorial Baloth
1 Harvester Troll (foil)
1 Saddleback Lagac
1 Reclaiming Vines
1 Scion Summoner
1 Elemental Uprising
1 Lead by Example
1 Stalking Drone
2 Natural State
1 Call the Scions
1 Canopy Gorger
1 Hedron Blade
1 Bone Saw
1 Warden of Geometries
1 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek's Channeler
Multicolor
1 Stormchaser Mage
2 Mindmelter
Lands
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Unknown Shores
1 Crumbling Vestige
1 Submerged Boneyard
1 Meandering River
1 Wastes
1 Skyline Cascade
So looking at this pool I immediately wanted to make Wx Allies work, Gideon, Munda's Vanguard and Eldrazi Displacer were all bombs I wanted to play. The issues started when I had to pick a second color. So the main issue with the W pool was that there few early drops and removal, so I wanted a color to compensate for that. I didn't consider green, even if there are some good cards there and Saddleback Lagac was an all-star all day, I felt the WG was subpar. Blue offered some interesting choices, but didn't exactly fix either my problems, and there was a low Ally density as well. Then Red, R was very powerful, with plenty quality removal and creatures, but I simply felt that the Devoid archetype would not go too well with my main Ally-based strategy. So Black was my secondary color, despite the appalling lack of decent removal there.
I played WBu in the first 2 rounds, having decided to splash for blue based on the thinking that with both 2 in-color duals that generate blue, I could get away with it and play powerhouses there. Even though I won, and I didn't feel the deck was underperforming, I thought that I could cut the blue for more consistency, and changed it simply to WB allies. I performed well until the last round, losing 2-1 to a mirror match.
Some decisions I might have regretted were not mainbording the 2 Reaver Drone, which might have made up for my lack of decent 2 drops. And given the good Red and Blue, I'm still not sure I made the best choice in the end. The only deck that me was basically the same (including Gideon and Eldrazi), just more consistent in the first few turns, so maybe the splash for blue creatures or entirely cutting out black for red's removal might have been better in the end.
This was the final decklist
1 Unknown Shores
1 Crumbling Vestige
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
8 Plains
6 Swamp
Creatures (16)
1 Makindi Aeronaut
2 Slaughter Drone
1 Vampire Envoy
1 Hagra Sharpshooter
1 Affa Protector
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Kor Sky Climber
1 Bloodbond Vampire
1 Zulaport Chainmage
1 Kozilek's Channeler
1 Malakir Soothsayer
2 Expedition Raptor
1 Munda's Vanguard
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Enchantments (2)
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Isolation Zone
Instants (4)
1 Tandem Tactics
1 Roil's Retribution
1 Mighty Leap
1 Warping Wail
So, what'd you have made differently?
Ah, good to know there was something like this in place. Thanks for the answers guys
Goblin Dark-Dwellers
So why do these other restrictions still apply to the card cast by GDD? I understand some cards would make no sense if cast outside of combat, but I'd expect their effects to simply become innocuous in most cases. I.e. cards like Mirror Match would basically do nothing outside of combat since there are no attacking creatures (yes, I know Mirror Match can't be cast by GDD).
Hedron Alignment
So in my pov the ruling stating that even if you have this card on your exile, if it is face-down it will not count, seems contradictory to the card's effect. Why can you not just reveal it from exile, like you reveal the one on your hand? Why doesn't the card itself state then that it must be face-up in exile for the trigger to occur? And if for some very weird reason this becomes a morphed creature and is face-down in the battlefield, what then?
I understand these are not very relevant concerns most of the time, I'm just curious.