With Eye of Ugin banned, Eldrazi has seen a turn for the slower. However, this does not destroy Eldrazi. With the release of SOI, comes new cards that make Eldrazi usable again, most notably Cryptolith Rite : an over-looked non-spoiled card that turns all Eldrazi Scion tokens into 2 mana generators, and gives the ability to generate large Eldrazi quickly using Scion Tokens and Cryptolith.
While I personally find this card to be a spiritual successor to the Heartless Eldrazi variants, it becomes more consistent, and loses the punishment of a permanent -1/-1 like Heartless Summoning gave.
Also, the only constraint being in means that various colors can brew again. I'm personally looking at a and a brew myself. However, the decklist I have is simply
Question, do you think splash is worth it for Inquisition of Kozilek or Abrupt Decay or Tidehollow Sculler
I know this is mainly GW, but there was a GWb in maindeck list, so I was curious, or do you think the slots are tight enough that trying to squeeze in would be too much and cost the deck some effectiveness?
So here's a list I played last night at my LGS. Went 3-1 and felt like the deck did exactly what it was born to do, which is crush the opponent's hopes and dreams and either secure a win through grindy beats or by the opponent scooping up their cards. A big difference between my list and a lot of the lists I see on here is my inclusion of Needle Spires. When this card was first previewed I'm pretty sure I laughed it off as unplayable, but now that lightning bolts are at a low, it really can put in some work. A lot of people on this forum talk about how slow their wincons are, but I didn't have that issue. With a spires on the field I was able to end games in 4 swings assuming I had only my manland. Usually I had a Needle Spires and Archangel of Tithes out at the same time, which is a pretty fast clock. I would recommend running some sweepers main too. Having access to 5 sweepers post board felt awesome against Fish and Company. The game I lost was against BG infect. Go figure...Phyrexian Crusader is pretty good against a RW deck. He opened on 2 iok both games which meant i lost my bolt every game and then he really killed me with a t2 Pithing Needle naming Ajani Vengeant, which I had two of in hand.
I'm toying with the idea of going to the upcoming SCG Open and will probaly play this deck. I plan to change up a few of the cards and will re-post once I come to final decision.
Nothing wrong with manlands in our sort of deck. I prefer Keldon Megaliths, but have used manlands successfully before, both the 2/1 first striker and 1/5 white equivalent. Needle Spire is a good card, and as two colour is thus a great card for inclusion. I think you have a solid looking list. I would consider a Linvala in the boar x2, if only because they stop Elves doing its mega mana stuff, plus helps as an out vs Melira and switches off all those BOPs.
I really like the look if this deck, and especially like the inclusion of Linvala, but what would you take out, 2 Kor Firewalkers for the Linvala? The second crucible? What matchup would suffer?
So have you guys found the green/black better than mono? I have been playing mono but like that world breaker and some of the ramp green cards..
I can't wait to see what some of the pro players "Jacob" has brewed for the past month.
Been so quite
I've found that green is a bit slower (since it runs less disruption due to stirrings) but is more flexible (able to keep hands you would otherwise mulligan due to ancient stirrings finding the creature or land you need). I think its more so a preference for play style.
TBH I'm more concerned at this point that a heartless build isn't as viable, I haven't seen any progress reports of the deck's performance or records being posted at local events whereas in other builds (processor, aggro, etc) have been doing so with a lot of success (going 5-0 at events with match up breakdowns). Not trying to deter people from playing this deck, but it'd be nice to see a little bit more of that.
The problem itself is the ability to have Scions (faster ramp and chump blockers), and the fact that we don't process exiled cards. I still find the Heartless build to be more efficient at getting Ulamog out, but I'm not sure it'll ever be quite as efficient because of how quick the other one CAN be.
It's the nature of our deck. I think what we need to do is be more consistent between our deck builds. If we can't even decide if we want Kozilek's Channeler and half of us are taking out Expedition Map while the others are adding colors, then it's hard to judge whether we'll be tourney viable. Heartless has a ton of options right now, whereas I think the Processor's version is a little more refined due to a more straightforward and arguably less versatile goal for the deck.
TL;DR Our problem is we have too many options. It's less the "unviable" and more the "too many slots for too many items" problem.
A lot of people are sideboarding Kozi, as Ulamog is a more consistent win, and has indestructible, but Kozi is insane hand hate. Kozi is a lot better against if you have a more control aspect to your deck, such as running VoidLock, but Ulamog's casting effect of exiling is often just too good to pass up for Kozi. Having both can be a little high on the mana cost for some people.
Have fun with it though, I love it in my Sideboard.
I'm also pretty partial to Life of the Loam as much for extra World Breakers as anti-land hate.
Any thoughts on Void Winnower as of late? I've just gone ahead and removed it, as any time I could use it, I just end up using World Breaker instead.
Here is what I just played at my local FNM.
I didn't think about the deck much in the building process yet... and it showed: Three matches with one win (2-0) and two losses (0-2 each). Win against a land flooded ex twin deck and losses against an artifact creatures homebrew and against infect.
Almost all the time I had so much mana and nothing to do with it. Literally sat there for rounds on end without even looking in my hand. So this is ramp overkill without much substance.
But the base isn't wrong I feel...
Having Mind Stone and Expedition Map on top of 24 lands is a lot. Not only that, but you have channeler, Sower and Conduit as well. You only have 2 cards that are win cons, so my suggestion is either to ditch some of the ramp, and add mid-range cards (Reality Smasher, Artisan of Kozilek) or to go big and scratch 2 creatures for 2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or either Kozi. If you're ramping too much, add more than 2 things to ramp into, or get rid of some of the ramp. You need to increase your chances to get into what you need, and 2/60 isn't quite enough.
Do BGx decks stand a chance against this? I'm playing Wilted Abzan and got stomped by my buddy the other night on this retarded deck. Also, what are this decks weaknesses?
Discard is strong against us. We have to keep hands full of lands, full of nothing but 1 single threat, slow hands with normal lands. If you can tempo the deck out very early, you win. Jund and Abzan midrange can wreck the deck if they have T1 Inqui into T2 Tarmo into T3 Lili.
Also we have no combo hate G1, so Living End and Grishoalbrand have the advantage because they're unfairly fast. We need either Stirrings or TKS to have a chance to disrupt the opponent's hand.
Same goes for unfair aggros like Elves, Infect and Affinity. We need Stirrings or K's Return in the opener to stand a chance.
The deck is not very interactive G1 (our answers are rather polarized), a lot of MUs get better post-board since we can easily cut 4 K's returns, 2 Uli, etc... and then put in a lot of better cards.
With Wilted Abzan, keep your Path to Exile as much as you can, especially if you don't have a very fast start. Be patient. Exile World Breaker, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger... the real threats. You can cast it after Conduit of Ruin tutors for a creature, so there's a chance your opponent won't search for a basic. Same goes with your use of Ghost Quarter.
The strongest ramp cards are Eye of Ugin and Heartless Summoning, since they let us potentially cast several guys per turn.
If you're running Thoughtseize, use it early, or after we inevitably have to tutor.
I faced a deck with Tidehollow Sculler in it as well, which was surprisingly strong, because it forces variants that don't have red splash (read K's return) to use precious removal to get back a potentially good card, as well as granting you an early body before most of our decks have successfully turning wheels.
No, because Eldrazi Temple/Eye of Ugin are straight upgrades, and Golgari Signet compared to those gets less mana.
It's easy enough to get Green Mana with Llanowar Wastes and Overgrown Tomb, and then you only get the mana you need.
I always think it's either Kozilek's Channeler OR Heartless Summoning. It's really just a choice between 4x of Heartless or 2x and 2x, I never plan to have them on the field at the same time.
However, it's pretty nice for him to eat the LB instead of weakening already malnourished creatures.
Playtested this for a while.
I like this a lot, though I added an extra Ghost Quarter on the side for what headminerv said -- affinity is pretty common in my meta. Took out a Thragtusk. Also added an extra World breaker. Didn't notice a difference. Don't remember what I took out. I particularly like Maelstrom Pulse as it feels more solid.
Still curious about Mosswort Bridge as it's a pretty solid Green Source for early cheats, especially a well placed World Breaker with pseudo-flash at Mosswort's instant speed. I'm asking because a lot more people would know about the shift in lands than I, though it sounds amazing. Even flash-casting Ulamog for exiling two perms disrupts a lot of combo, shuts down lands and ends a lot of heavy matchups.
For those considering a green splash, my friend sleeved up a test deck version with green. During testing, Mosswort Bridge consistently cheated out Ulamogs and Sowers, though his deck wasn't the Heartless Summoning version.
I'm curious about splashing green, as it opens up options for cards like Maelstrom Pulse or Abrupt Decay or even a card like Summer Bloom for faster ramp, into Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple. There are a couple thoughts, though someone would obviously have to playtest them first
While I personally find this card to be a spiritual successor to the Heartless Eldrazi variants, it becomes more consistent, and loses the punishment of a permanent -1/-1 like Heartless Summoning gave.
Also, the only constraint being in means that various colors can brew again. I'm personally looking at a and a brew myself. However, the decklist I have is simply
Staple cards include
Blight Herder or other Scion generators, this just happens to be my one of choice alongsideBlisterpod
Cryptolith Rite as the main mana generator
Eldrazi Temple as the main Eldrazi Generator
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as the main sweeper
All other cards are pretty optional, though I tend to love World Breaker and Ancient Stirrings
Land (24)
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
10x Forest
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Wastes
Creatures (20)
4x Blisterpod
2x Blight Herder
3x Conduit of Ruin
4x Oblivion Sower
2x Reality Smasher
1x Endless One
3x World Breaker
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Instants (4)
4x Warping Wail
Sorcery (4)
2x Ancient Stirrings
2x Sylvan Scrying
Enchantment (8)
4x From Beyond
4x Cryptolith Rite
Sideboard (13)
1x All Is Dust
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Choke
2x Feed the Clan
2x Life from the Loam
3x Nature's Claim
2x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Void Winnower
I know this is mainly GW, but there was a GWb in maindeck list, so I was curious, or do you think the slots are tight enough that trying to squeeze in would be too much and cost the deck some effectiveness?
I really like the look if this deck, and especially like the inclusion of Linvala, but what would you take out, 2 Kor Firewalkers for the Linvala? The second crucible? What matchup would suffer?
The problem itself is the ability to have Scions (faster ramp and chump blockers), and the fact that we don't process exiled cards. I still find the Heartless build to be more efficient at getting Ulamog out, but I'm not sure it'll ever be quite as efficient because of how quick the other one CAN be.
It's the nature of our deck. I think what we need to do is be more consistent between our deck builds. If we can't even decide if we want Kozilek's Channeler and half of us are taking out Expedition Map while the others are adding colors, then it's hard to judge whether we'll be tourney viable. Heartless has a ton of options right now, whereas I think the Processor's version is a little more refined due to a more straightforward and arguably less versatile goal for the deck.
TL;DR Our problem is we have too many options. It's less the "unviable" and more the "too many slots for too many items" problem.
A lot of people are sideboarding Kozi, as Ulamog is a more consistent win, and has indestructible, but Kozi is insane hand hate. Kozi is a lot better against if you have a more control aspect to your deck, such as running VoidLock, but Ulamog's casting effect of exiling is often just too good to pass up for Kozi. Having both can be a little high on the mana cost for some people.
Have fun with it though, I love it in my Sideboard.
I'm also pretty partial to Life of the Loam as much for extra World Breakers as anti-land hate.
Any thoughts on Void Winnower as of late? I've just gone ahead and removed it, as any time I could use it, I just end up using World Breaker instead.
Having Mind Stone and Expedition Map on top of 24 lands is a lot. Not only that, but you have channeler, Sower and Conduit as well. You only have 2 cards that are win cons, so my suggestion is either to ditch some of the ramp, and add mid-range cards (Reality Smasher, Artisan of Kozilek) or to go big and scratch 2 creatures for 2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or either Kozi. If you're ramping too much, add more than 2 things to ramp into, or get rid of some of the ramp. You need to increase your chances to get into what you need, and 2/60 isn't quite enough.
If you're running Thoughtseize, use it early, or after we inevitably have to tutor.
I faced a deck with Tidehollow Sculler in it as well, which was surprisingly strong, because it forces variants that don't have red splash (read K's return) to use precious removal to get back a potentially good card, as well as granting you an early body before most of our decks have successfully turning wheels.
It's easy enough to get Green Mana with Llanowar Wastes and Overgrown Tomb, and then you only get the mana you need.
I always think it's either Kozilek's Channeler OR Heartless Summoning. It's really just a choice between 4x of Heartless or 2x and 2x, I never plan to have them on the field at the same time.
However, it's pretty nice for him to eat the LB instead of weakening already malnourished creatures.
How does Mono Black fare against this, does BG do better? BR? Jund?
It'll also give us a better idea of the matchups that we struggle with.
Playtested this for a while.
I like this a lot, though I added an extra Ghost Quarter on the side for what headminerv said -- affinity is pretty common in my meta. Took out a Thragtusk. Also added an extra World breaker. Didn't notice a difference. Don't remember what I took out. I particularly like Maelstrom Pulse as it feels more solid.
Still curious about Mosswort Bridge as it's a pretty solid Green Source for early cheats, especially a well placed World Breaker with pseudo-flash at Mosswort's instant speed. I'm asking because a lot more people would know about the shift in lands than I, though it sounds amazing. Even flash-casting Ulamog for exiling two perms disrupts a lot of combo, shuts down lands and ends a lot of heavy matchups.
I'm curious about splashing green, as it opens up options for cards like Maelstrom Pulse or Abrupt Decay or even a card like Summer Bloom for faster ramp, into Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple. There are a couple thoughts, though someone would obviously have to playtest them first
EDIT: LOL no, RIP Summer Bloom.