Yeah, that sounds about right. Exquisite Firecraft can be used against other decks too, so I guess it's better
I think it can be good as a sideboard card for game two. In some games we get locked out due to life gain effects or counterspells etc., and the Shrine gives us some inevitability for those longer games we may otherwise lose. It also exposes the chance of the opponent having dead cards that deal with artifacts once they have seen it (assuming we took it out again).
Do you think that RG or GW Tron is well positioned or better positioned than GB in the new meta with the unbannings? What is the upside of playing red instead of black or white? Are mono green Tron and GB Tron the most popular versions for some reason instead of GR or GW? What are you altering in your maindeck or sideboards to combat the effects of the unbannings? Are Pyroclasms used anymore or just K-Return and Lightning Bolt in GR Tron? In GW Tron what is a good amount of Paths and Blessed Alliance to play? I was trying to find a recent GR and GW list from tournaments but have been unsuccessful, only finding GB, Eldrazi, and mono green lists which seem to be the most popular for some reason. Does anyone know of a GR or GW list that has done well recently?
I’m wondering if Shard Volley becomes a stronger pick main board now just to speed our clock up a bit more if everything else is slowing down. A two-of may make sense, possibly putting some combination of Lightning Helix and Skullcrack in the sideboard.
It's my belief that every burn deck should play 1-2 Volleys, and it should be considered core unless you're in a high land destruction meta. The payoff compared to the cost is absolutely there. I think there's even an argument for 3, if you want to push it to the limit.
I am also leaning towards two copies, with compensation via 19 lands, two Searing Blazes (SB) and three Skullcracks (SC) in the main board. Too often I find that SB and SC are not particualrly relevant in the first game.
Even though it's not like eldrazi tron got a new card from the BBE and Jace unbannings- I actually think our position in the modern metagame improves with this unbanning. Eldrazi tron is fairly resilient against control decks and has an excellent jund matchup. I don't think BBE does anything to significantly improve their matchup vs. us. More fair, midrange decks in the format will mean more decks that we can prey on.
R/G Tron has a great burn MU because of MD pyroclasm. Mono G tron has a worse MU because it plays MD dismember as its removal of choice
Pyroclasm is decent against Burn, but GR Tron definitely does not have a great Burn matchup; that's like saying that Lantern Control has a great Tron matchup because they run Pithing Needle. Honestly, GB Tron is probably better against Burn because of how amazing Collective Brutality can be.
I agree on these points, having played against Burn with both GR Tron and GB Tron. It was quite easy with GB Tron if I saw multiple CBs...whereas with GR Tron, we need a little luck AND early interaction to survive.
I would like to take a question, i currently play R/G Tron and would like to hear from you guys if in my SB I should put Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass.
I think Spyglass is very good for giving information about the opponent's hand (and consequently the deck), since with these unbans and the great diversity of decks in the modern, having information of the opponent's hand/deck is very strong, however it comes in the turn 2.
Since the Needle is faster by entering Turn 1 and so it makes you interact/disrupt your opponent earlier.
I would like your opinion
I prefer Spyglass. First of all we are not guaranteed to see either card in our opening hands. Secondly, seeing the opponent's hand is extremely valuable and well worth one mana IMHO. Thirdly, the art is better
On the Burn match, I find that without disruption the opponent tends to win fairly consistently on turn 4. The question is then whether to prioritize Tron or not (I guess not?). It seems that a board sweep is essential, as is a creature that can be played at least by turn 4? In which case we are looking for a very specific opening hand. When going for Tron, often I am dead before I could put it to any real use.
Yeah so the normal turn 1 egg or map is what you want, but then turn 2 or 3 you'll want to pyroclasm. The burn deck ideally wants creatures in its opener (a hand without any is probably a mulligan) and multiples are common. The burn deck is also forced into frontloading as many creatures as possible before starting to cast burn spells. This means (especially on the draw) you can slam pyroclasm on your second turn and invalidate two creatures from your opponent. From there, they'll likely have a couple of lands and be forced into playing one spell a turn while you drop TKSs and thragtusks. This is an ideal scenario of course but you tend to get time after casting a sweeper to build tron and play stuff out.
Thanks, seems like the way yes. I went 1-2 in my last match, and was just one small misplay (delayed killing Eidolon with Nature's Claim for a turn) away from being in an excellent position to perhaps win the decider.
Otherwise, since I adjusted the deck based on your suggestions I am 10-5 (4-1,3-2,3-2), so thanks a lot pal!
On the Burn match, I find that without disruption the opponent tends to win fairly consistently on turn 4. The question is then whether to prioritize Tron or not (I guess not?). It seems that a board sweep is essential, as is a creature that can be played at least by turn 4? In which case we are looking for a very specific opening hand. When going for Tron, often I am dead before I could put it to any real use.
BW Bitterblossom 2-0 MVP Ugin and O Stone Mono U Tron 2-1 MVP Cavern of Souls and Ulamog Abzan 2-1 MVP Ugin Burn 0-2 UW Control 2-1 MVP Blood Sun and Ugin
My only loss was to Burn, who killed me in turn 4 both times; I need to consider my mulligan strategy in relation to that MU. Blood Sun did serious work in the last game, I was delighted with it. It completely shut off Field of Ruin and Celestial Colonnade. As I noted earlier, the Cavern was crucial against Mono U Tron and converted a loss into a win in one turn. Prefer this kind of impact to a Ghost Quarter at present.
The deck is going good- I've seen quite a lot of Mono U Tron online these days so Cavern has further uses. Last game- just as I was about to lose due to Mindslaver, I drew Ulamog and Cavern pushed him into play through my opponent's hand full of Condescends- very satisfying indeed! From game over for me, to game over for them
It's working well pal, liking the single Ballista (just beat a creatures deck with a 9/9!) and TKS (cheap, defensive and provides excellent interaction). In particular, TKS through a COS can clear the opponent's hand of nasty spells/counters before playing a haymaker.
I decided that 6 lifegain was just going to lose me the game straight up, and my only way to win was to get rid of the Wurmcoil and draw straight gas for the rest of the game. I decided to send the Rift Bolt at the Wurmcoil Engine, drew a Smash to Smithereens off the top, Bolted it to kill it, fetched a mountain and used Smash on the lifegain token. Swinging in with the 3/4 Swiftspear and Guide took out the deathtouch token. I know I got pretty lucky with an answer off the top and was rewarded with straight gas (and my opponent flooding) to win, but I'm curious if that was the right line of play. It seemed like it was a low percentage to win in any case and I got lucky, but I don't want to be blinded by confirmation bias.
I think I would try the same approach, as the +6 lifegain seems too much of a liability to overcome even once, let alone multiple times. Each time it would roughly undo two burn spells, so it would seem worthwhile to expend two such spells to get rid of it immediately.
I moved Sundering Titan to the sideboard and would bring it in against decks with appropriate land types. I personally prefer GQ to COS, especially when combined with Surgical Extraction post board. I removed a Ballista as it is not a very high-impact card without a Basilisk Collar in my opinion.
Ancient Grudge comes in to further hose Affinity and Lantern, and Crumble to Dust is for Tron mirrors. A single Dismember is there in case of larger creatures.
Ballista is amazing. Keep one, at least. So many aggressive or creature-reliant decks get hosed by it. Don't worry about Basilisk collar. We get tron online more easily than eldrazi tron so it's more of a beefy creature in this deck anyway.
If you're running worldbreaker over Sundering titan, that seems fine. I personally wouldn't bother with titan at all if that's the case. Maybe swap the sideboard titan for a cavern of souls? Although honestly the interaction with thought-knot seer is maybe the most valuable there and if you're not running the seer I perhaps wouldn't bother with cavern either, haha!
On the sideboard, less than 3 nature's claim is gonna bite you in the butt sooner or later. It's such a key card in so many matchups. You always want to bring them in against burn, decks with stony silence/path to Exile (either claim the stony or claim your own wurmcoil in response to path). Great against affinity, lantern, random artifacts like aether vial. It's just a great all-rounder and at worst you claim your own chromatic star to gain 4 life and draw a card. Not a bad return. Even kills inkmoth nexus.
Oh and it kills blood moon. You need at least 3 in the board (ancient grudge is a good "as well as" card but not an adequate replacement)
On surgical extraction, what's it for? Do you have a specific matchup in mind? I've tried it a couple of times myself but wasn't completely sold on the card. Is your local meta in need of an answer of this type?
Take a gander at thought-knot seer for the board as well. It excels in those matchups where an opponent goes for your mana and you have to cast spells "naturally". And it destroys burn. Just horrifically lol.
Otherwise bud, rock on. Most lists share about 95% of cards and the devil is in the details so let us know how your testing goes.
Thanks for the post pal! I have quite a few thoughts after playing more games...
Ballista- yes, I see what you mean, with Tron it becomes a solid removal and blocking tool.
Titan- I can see your logic on selecting one creature, but why is TKS linked to the COS?
Nature's Claim- good points and I understand, thanks.
Surgical- I had in mind Storm, BR Hollow One, Tron (in conjunction with GQ), Titan Shift, GDS and a few others. Maybe stronger with TKS and GQ though. Having said that, I am tending to agree that in the majority of matches it is not strong enough and can be a very weak draw in longer games where each top deck is absolutely vital.
TKS- I had misunderstood its use, I thought you were using it mainly for the discard effect. But it makes sense that in some games the curve has to be lowered.
Other question on the sideboard:
I have lost a lot of very close games 2-1 and I see the imperative of every single card having maximum value. However, I am not sure as to whether I should be boarding out high-end threats and/or the consistency enablers, assuming the removal suite does not change drastically. Any rules of thumb for this? In a few matches I realized I may have taken out too many threats, as I tended not to touch the consistency suite unless I saw a Chalice across the board. Then, I lost sometimes due to not drawing any haymakers, even though the board was stabilized with neither player having cards in hand.
https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/dj-west/red-green-ponza/1294269
It comes from this article:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14449&writer=Seth Manfield&articledate=2-13-2018
I had a really hard time against it, multiple times.
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/jace-and-bloodbraid-unbanned-the-biggest-winners-losers-in-modern/
Otherwise, since I adjusted the deck based on your suggestions I am 10-5 (4-1,3-2,3-2), so thanks a lot pal!
BW Bitterblossom 2-0 MVP Ugin and O Stone
Mono U Tron 2-1 MVP Cavern of Souls and Ulamog
Abzan 2-1 MVP Ugin
Burn 0-2
UW Control 2-1 MVP Blood Sun and Ugin
My only loss was to Burn, who killed me in turn 4 both times; I need to consider my mulligan strategy in relation to that MU. Blood Sun did serious work in the last game, I was delighted with it. It completely shut off Field of Ruin and Celestial Colonnade. As I noted earlier, the Cavern was crucial against Mono U Tron and converted a loss into a win in one turn. Prefer this kind of impact to a Ghost Quarter at present.
I used this one:
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Pyroclasm
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Walking Ballista
1 World Breaker
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Blood Sun
1 Crumble to Dust
3 Nature's Claim
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Thragtusk
Ballista- yes, I see what you mean, with Tron it becomes a solid removal and blocking tool.
Titan- I can see your logic on selecting one creature, but why is TKS linked to the COS?
Nature's Claim- good points and I understand, thanks.
Surgical- I had in mind Storm, BR Hollow One, Tron (in conjunction with GQ), Titan Shift, GDS and a few others. Maybe stronger with TKS and GQ though. Having said that, I am tending to agree that in the majority of matches it is not strong enough and can be a very weak draw in longer games where each top deck is absolutely vital.
TKS- I had misunderstood its use, I thought you were using it mainly for the discard effect. But it makes sense that in some games the curve has to be lowered.
Other question on the sideboard:
I have lost a lot of very close games 2-1 and I see the imperative of every single card having maximum value. However, I am not sure as to whether I should be boarding out high-end threats and/or the consistency enablers, assuming the removal suite does not change drastically. Any rules of thumb for this? In a few matches I realized I may have taken out too many threats, as I tended not to touch the consistency suite unless I saw a Chalice across the board. Then, I lost sometimes due to not drawing any haymakers, even though the board was stabilized with neither player having cards in hand.