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  • 7

    posted a message on Horsemen of the Apocalypse Mafia - Sign-Ups (Full - Still accepting replacements!)
    Quote from Cyan »
    Upon further review, I don't think I should play any more mafia. /Out sorry


    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
  • 1

    posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    You're hitting on what makes MTGS a good community to play mafia: unique game design and storytelling. It's not enough for our hosts to run a game; it has to push the envelope, break a mold, go where no designer has gone before, etc. But to enjoy those games, we need players with basic knowledge of mechanics and a solid understanding of roles.

    Perhaps going more narrative with Basics and more mechanical with our specialties would help. Instead of League, which added incentive to playing a lot with career stats and rankings, perhaps an episodic or continuing tale would help Basics out more. "Being part of the story" is what initially drew me to this game, and having an effect on the "world" of the designer. Xyre's games to this day stand out as superb storytelling that reacts to player decisions and change course completely depending on results.

    Perhaps Basic Trilogy stories? Or what if players were roleplaying with no metagaming? Love the thought.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • 1

    posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    If there's no judges left to volunteer for the League job, scrap the project. Maybe we can revisit it in a decade or so when MTGS Mafia AI v2.0 PRESENTED BY CURSE reads games for us, does scoring, and provides feedback for players. Until then, it's clear it's too much responsibility to ask of someone supposedly here to have fun.

    On Normal/Special queue structure: Eco does make a good point about games gradually being of larger design if minis aren't isolated. I think newer game designers in particular are guilty of player count creep, but you learn eventually that bigger doesn't mean better. If minis are so popular, the fear may be unwarranted that minis need protecting from overzealous game designers. Their popularity means they will get to host a mini sooner, which is a built-in incentive to make a mini over a larger specialty. We might want to try it out before assuming minis will just disappear if there's not a specific queue for them. If games available are simply too large to be filled up, they won't run. We're smart; we will know it's because we need another mini.

    I don't know what the best solution is; but I do see a lot of players wanting more complexity in more variety. I also know we do need some Normal or Basic style games to make room for newcomers and skill-jockeys. Maybe Small and Large game queues will work better, in that the complexity is simply left up to the host and player demand. As long as we keep basic/normal gameplay available and accessible, I don't see a problem with Small and Large queue structures.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • 1

    posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    When you first start learning a new game, you want to master the basics first. That's why we have a natural progression of difficulty in problem solving skills with different sized/complexity games. The league is the pinnacle of mastery of the basics. Nothing random should happen, so your basic skills in analysis and scum hunting can be perfected in the best environment. I think of it like Goku from Dragon Ball Z on the way to Namek, training in a high-gravity environment away from real threats to hone his skills. This is very valuable to the growth of the community; it's only waning because our attrition is falling.

    Eventually what happens to all of us as mafia players: once we've mastered the basics, we want something with a little more spice that makes us think harder and throw out everything we knew. As hosts and set-up designers, we want to challenge ourselves to balance ever more complex roles, and make our players reconsider traditional ideas (or be bastard mods). This is just the evolution of the game, but should be isolated as to not put off new players. The awesome spin a host will put on the Vigilante role is lost on the player who just now learned what a Vigilante is, and will now associate Vig with this unique role. You don't set up a new Minecraft player with a ton of Gregtech mods, or a noob Starcraft player in a specialized MOBA mod. Specialties, along with roles and abilities that could qualify as non-basic (like an unreliable cop or cult or whatever wouldn't be in a new player game), are essentially Mafia Mods, not intended for the uninitiated.

    We have a small community advancing quickly in skill and players desire more complexity. That's entirely expected and a good thing. But you have to have a separation of the two game categories to ensure that new players will find a spot they feel comfortable testing themselves. That we want to "fix" the league to fit more complexity is only a result of the league players maturing from the format.

    If the demand for League games decrease, run less League games. Let the sign up die, and run a different format. Design a smaller league game to fire next month. League games might be retrofitted to be more of a starting point for new comers looking to get into the unique specialty game settings we offer at MTGS.

    Quote from Azrael »
    Alright, here's my proposal.

    #1. We fire a PCQ, right now. Within 24 hours. Give people a couple of weeks to come up with submissions, then votes fire.

    Not a bad plan. We should get it going.

    Quote from Azrael »

    #2. We abolish complexity restrictions on League games. The judges decide what to run as the next league game - whatever they feel is appropriately balanced.

    I don't think we want to divorce the league from complexity restrictions at all. That is part of what makes it important to progression in knowledge, vocabulary, and skill. If we ever run out of volunteers for scoring new players and coaching, we can scrap the project altogether and just run basics: new hosts - new players.

    Quote from Azrael »

    #3. We keep the mini and specialty queues as is, but the normal queue is renamed the standard queue, and can contain whatever size or complexity the host in question feels like running. This would allow our hosts more flexibility in designing games to fit the tastes of the playerbase, whether towards larger or smaller games, or towards greater or lesser complexity. Effectively, we'd be introducing variance into the list. We won't always have small games, we won't always have large games, and you never quite know exactly how feisty or creative the moderator might be feeling.

    Adding a bit of fuzziness to the Normal queue line is another good remedy to the symptom. I believe this is due to a maturation of a small playerbase who just wants more complex games. We don't necessarily need to change the lower-level structure of progression as much as we need to increase the output of more complex specialties.


    You have to realize at a certain point of complexity, your League score becomes so abstract that it isn't even an accurate representation of your progress as a player, which is the entire point of the League. You either climb to the top in basics or venture out into the wonderful world of MTGS Mafia Specialties, but don't confuse the two.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • 1

    posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    Unacceptable, no. Lame? Yes.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • 2

    posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    I haven't checked with the other council members, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me to exempt Open setups from review.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • 1

    posted a message on
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  • 1

    posted a message on Star Wars Mafia Sign-ups
    Quote from Prophylaxis
    I'm sad to see a Zionite Normal move so slowly. This is the guy who hosted Cyberpunk!

    There is now a Steampunk Mafia in the works. The Game is Afoot!
    Quote from Cyan
    I was excited for another Zionite Game, and one in the SW Universe.
    And then I saw it was a semi-Open setup.
    Oh well, maybe next time.

    That's a shame; I was assuming from the popularity of the last open setup game that semi-open would get picked up as well. Hope you change your mind!
    Quote from LnGrrrR
    I really hope this has only the original trilogy characters. If I get stuck with Padme, or JarJar or Sebulba or Grievous, I will be very sadface. I'd rather be Max Rebo than any of those.

    The characters in this flavor will come from any theatrical release film. That includes the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy, along with The Clone Wars.

    I can guarantee no one will be disappointed. Smile

    I will accept any more sign ups between now and tomorrow night.
    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
  • 2

    posted a message on IRC Mafia Meetup - Chat and Play
    That was fun!

    Maybe we should just bump this thread when we have some games going.
    Posted in: Mafia
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