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  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from daviusminimus »
    @ Emzed - I have recently started to question the usefulness of Cobra, because there are scenarios where he's not that good (it dies to a 1-mana removal spell, or you dont have a 3rd land)... but, I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate the argument of "the 2/1 isn't that good". If you drop cobra, you replace it with a 0/1 with exalted. That's not any better.
    There's plenty of arguments against Cobra, but the body isn't 1 of them!


    I think the best part about cobra is it plays well with oath of nissa, whether you are short a rallier, a fetch land, or the cobra on early turns you can find what you need and attempt to do some broken things on t3.

    Most people are looking for consistency, in which case storm takes the cake for combo decks and counters company takes the cake for creature combo. We are just explosive with multiple angle of attack. Storm IMO is better at both of these things, but should probably get taken down a notch with a nerf. We are far more resilient and better at generating value when the combo isnt online than counters company while they offer more consistency.

    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from Emzed »
    Quote from Brulander »

    I prefer 4 cobra/4rallier to 2 arbor elf for sure. Much more explosive especially vs Tron allowing you to dump a ton of power out t2 and just race tron.

    Well, if that actually happened like this all the time, it would really be great in the matchup (and every other one). But let's be honest, even with all 4-ofs of these cards, you don't always get these draws. While you're increasing your chances to explode onto the board quickly, you also fill your deck with more cards that neither actually win on the spot nor interact with decks like Storm, Affinity or Titanshift. You do, however, get punished even harder by Anger of the Gods and similar sweepers.
    While on the surface, Lotus Cobra has a relevant 2/1 body, in practice having a few 2/1s isn't always such a great thing. Imagine facing a 1/3 Baral or a 2/3 Reflector Mage or a Young Pyromancer with some tokens.
    While Cobra has an extremely high ceiling, there are also a lot of ways it can go wrong.


    In this specific scenario I was comparing a 4th cobra and a 4th rallier to 2 mana dorks.... Which in no way shape or form makes it easier to win on the spot, interact with storm affinity or titanshift, or get less punished by anger or sweepers.

    You have to look at it like this... The deck has 2 very valid paths to victory, combo and value. Rallier assists with both of these, and once again like everyone else is saying a 2/1 snake is better than a 0/1 exaulted human.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from stu20 »
    Everybody seems to be running witness. Do you usually go get it with evolution? I've cut mine from the decklist since I almost never want to draw it and never want to go get it with evo/chord. never missed it.

    For the people who have been running more mana dorks: dont you get flooded at some point? Do you get the feeling that there is too much air in the deck? Or does the explosive starts that they provide compensate that?


    Stony Silence on the draw can range from unplayable to very good (they keep a egg-filled hand with no turn 3 tron). I believe the plan vs tron is to go full combo and trim the big things from this deck. Land destruction into combo usually does the trick. Gaddock teeg is very good vs them also.

    Clique seems interesting. UU is certainly tough. I can see it being decent vs removal/combo decks/tron.

    My List for reference. The maindeck baloth is a nudge to burn. I hate losing to it but it could be anything (another guardian, sigarda, maindeck riders)




    The 1 ewit is just redundancy, for instance if your out of lands and can't seem to draw one, ewit will do the trick. If opp killed your saheeli and you can't find one ewit works. If you have played 2 oath and 1 is in the bin ewit can certainly back and help you dig. Just a slow catch all answer that doesn't usually hurt.

    I prefer finks to Baloth for md burn hate as it's harder to negate with Skullcrack.

    This deck doesn't flood off dorks nearly as much as counters company or other similar decks because lotus Cobra is still a relevent bear sitting at 2/1. Not to mention oath is really very valuable in this regard. Additionally, buying back fetches with rallies thins your deck a bit faster than if you were playing 1 land per turn.

    We almost never pass the turn with open Mana and don't really play many bullets. Chording during main phase is unappealing. I would never run chord in this shell. Plus teeg is a no-go with chord.

    UU is horrible as we want GG and WW and only UR if we don't have an oath or reliable dorks which isn't often.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from hakkai »
    Playing a Team Trios event this weekend as the Modern player and looking to sleeve this up:


    Couple notes:
    * Arbor Elf are budget Hierarchs (but can sometimes tap for red)
    * Teeg maindeck as a bullet to Storm
    * Augur flex slot (would probably play Avalanche Riders if I can find one)
    * Reveillark flex slot (debating over Sigarda, Heron's Grace)

    Missing 2 cards in board, open to suggestions! I don't expect Affinity or Lantern which is why I've cut Stonies and Kataki. Are Stonies good enough against Tron that we want them anyway? (Most likely at least 1 G/x Tron and U Tron will be there)

    They're out of my budget, but I will probably add 2x Engineered Explosives if I can borrow them for the event. Also debating more Paths and Magus of the Moon.

    Has anyone tried Vendillion Clique? UU is tough but it could help clear the way to combo?


    I prefer 4 cobra/4rallier to 2 arbor elf for sure. Much more explosive especially vs Tron allowing you to dump a ton of power out t2 and just race tron.

    If the teeg is purely to combat storm, I find eidolon does it better as it can't be bolted and is much harder to grapeshot away. Most decks such as Tron, Scapeshift, and Coco decks have plenty of my ways to remove teeg.

    Not a fan of riverwise auger in testing... The card has just never really done anything for me. Easy swap for magus if you think it's relevent in your meta.

    I prefer a sun Titan to the reveillark as it can win games on the spot if you have access to a couple saheeli between the gy and battlefield and also provides just as much value vs midrange.

    Without ee you are super weak vs go wide aggro like humans, elves, merfolk, affinity... consider a couple ghostly prison to fill the gap. I also find linvala great vs affinity and elves.

    Only 1 way to remove artifacts and enchantments seems pretty loose, try and find room for another pridemage, or an angel of sanctions, or acidic slime.

    Ide much rather see 4 voice and 2 oracle. Voice has a huge hedge vs midrange, control, and burn where oracle is only possibly better vs combo.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from Shelldell »
    Thanks for the report!

    I know we've talked about this a lot but did you miss not having any Paths in the 75? Seems like it would've been useful to snipe Young Pyromancer, Devoted Druid / Ezuri / Archdruid, and the Islandwalk Lords. Not sure what all win-cons Red Prison was playing so I can't comment on whether it would've been useful at all there, but overall it seems well-positioned.

    How did you feel about 4x Rallier? I've found him to be just "OK" vs Elves and Merfolk. My local Skred player also runs 3-4x Relic of Progenitus so Rallier wasn't amazing there last time I played that matchup. Rallier's probably good against Mardu's discard and destruction-based removal, though?


    So, the only time I really wanted a path was vs Elves. They were the only deck to fast for me on a couple of turns and a path would have slowed them down by killing off an archdruid or ezuri. Red Prison was running Hazoret, Chandra, Rabblemaster, and Koth... Once again, in a shell like this the name of the game is speed. vs a deck without interaction I find it much more valuable to mull down to 6 if I dont see a way to build a combo G1. G2, I look for a ghostly prison, evolution, or way to combo fast.

    Rallier is amazing when you cant combo or you are vs something like mardu pyromancer. Not having path doesnt bother me when I just dump 3-4 creatures on t2-3 that he cant keep in the gy.... the synergy between cobra, voice, and rallier make them all an auto 4 of for me. If your not playing them as a 4 of you are just missing out on some absolutely broken sequencing and turning into a less good gw value town or less good counters company style combo deck.

    Obviously, these are just my opinions and i'm sure with more games played they will change but this is one of the more consistent speedy combo decks in the format and I aim to play it that way. The most appealing thing about the deck to me is its ability to out value midrange strategies when the combo isnt realistic and the voice/rallier/cobra package is a big part of that.

    Here is my list with small updates:



    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    FNM Report, around 12 players... went 4-0, lost in the top 4

    Rd 1: Mardu Pyromancer
    He didnt know what I was on and was running incredibly aggressive choosing to fire off faithless looting, into pyromancer, into lingering souls. I had natural T4 combo but just waited until T5 when he chose to tap out to finish him off. Easy win, didnt see discard.

    Gm 2: Brought in 2 trackers and a staticaster for 2 felidar and a bird. He started with inquisition taking finks, I believe I had 3 lands, omens, finks,
    felidar, maybe oath? He probably should have just taken the oath. I ended up finding staticaster off oath and riding that for a few turns until i just rallier valued him away with voices and ralliers off the top. Did play a tracker which ate removal right away as well.

    Rd 2: Mono Red Prison
    I knew this dude and knows he always plays bloodmoon so sorry to say I fetched into basics and valued my birds and cobras on opening hands. G1 went easy,
    I combod him out on t4.

    G 2: Brought in rec sage and acidic slime for a couple wall of omens. He played T2 torpor orb T3 Drops his hand full of rituals into bridge and I scoop.

    G 3: I realize im basically racing bridge and just go all out aggro with 2 cobras, 2 voices, and 2 saheelis just copying voices for more damage. He played torpor orb again for reference.

    Rd 3: Merfolk: G1 I just get overrun while she had a spreading seas on me... Couldnt stick a Saheeli or generate a favorable boardstate.

    G2: Brought in Gearhulk, 2 Ghostly Prison, 1 Rec sage for 2 walls, thragtusk, and ewit. Ghostly Prison stalls a large boardstate and allows me to dig for combo to win.

    G3: This was a long drawn out game when I played yet another ghostly prison then ripped a evolution staring down defeat on the next turn ussing it to evo finks into gearhulk which carried me to victory.

    Rd 4: Elves: G1 I T3 combo.

    G2: Brought in Gearhulk, 2 Ghostly Prison, Staticaster for titan, thragtusk, witness, finks. He had an insane hand and shaman hit me for 8 on t3, with 2 more shamans in hand i conceded with nothing but a wall on t2.

    G3: He mulled to 4, I combod t4.


    TOP 4:
    Rematched Vs elves. G1 I mull an average 7 looking for a quick combo, find it and combo t4 on the play.

    G2, I mull to 6 looking for the same thing, get punished with 0 lands, go to 5. Keep an average land land oath wall felidar hand. Die after 4-5 turns.

    G3, I have land land wall evo evo and voice bird. He starts fast and I use the first evo grabbing staticaster, kill 1 dork but he starts the next turn pumping out 2 druids effectively eliminating staticaster. I Evo again for gearhulk to stabalize but he continues to topdeck coco and lead the stampede and just runs me over. GG


    Thoughts: I need to suck it up and replace the prisons with EE, vs torpor orb, elves, and merfolk I would have rather had EE. With EE I dont think i need to replace rec sage or acidic slime with pridemage. I also want to make room for a single linvala, keeper in my SB due to elves and affinity at my LGS, not sure what to take out yet.

    Outside of that, the deck felt pretty great and no one expected it which gave me some serious bonus points.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from Shelldell »
    Thanks for the suggestion. I'd thought about Ghostly Prison and it could be solid at times, but I can also imagine some problems:

    Affinity -- quickly dumps their hand and is happy to pay 2 to attack with their massively Plated / Modular buffed attacker
    Humans & Merfolk -- Vial in threats and then save their mana for paying the Prison tax. This does slow their tempo a bit, but is it enough?
    Elves -- With infinite mana (or even just a lot of mana) or Shaman of the Pack the tax is irrelevant

    Additionally Ghostly Prison doesn't stop them from freely attacking Saheeli, although with less pressure on our life total we could better hold her back to play along with / after Felidar.

    How has it played out in your games?


    I find what it does well is stall for combo which these decks have little interaction with.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Saheeli Evolution/Chord
    Quote from Shelldell »
    ~25 person FNM report

    No changes from the list I posted on Wednesday
    Match 1: 4c (Grixis + White) Death's Shadow
    G1 I curved Voice into Kambal. I wasn't sure what to expect out of him, but he ended up doing something like +6 -6 life swing and my opponent later told me that Kambal kept him off some of the lines he would've preferred -- guess he didn't have removal on hand. I blocked with Voice -> Rallier rez Voice while Kambal drained him for his scours and inquisitions. Eventually I got Courser on the board, putting me up to 24 life and a decent board. When he has 2 life he's forced to swing in with double 11/11 shadows. I block both. He Battle Rages one but my cushy life total leaves me with 2 life and I win on the crack back.
    G2 on the draw I keep a hand I shouldn't have gotten away with -- one land, oath, cobra, rallier, felidar, voice, and rhino -- and he inquisitions away the Cobra, not processing that I was on one land until he passed back to my turn. I draw into my 2nd & 3rd lands, curving Oath into Voice into Rallier into Rhino. Rhino gets pushed. I draw into a second Rhino, path his Shadow. I flicker the second Rhino to burn him out.
    SB -3 Birds, -1 Hierarch, -3 Evo // +1 Path, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Thalia GoT, +1 Explosives, +1 Selfless Spirit, +1 Kitchen Finks, +1 Tireless Tracker
    2-0 games, 1-0 overall record

    Match 2: GW Tron
    G1 I start with a hand that has Birds, Oath, and both combo pieces. I curve Birds into Saheeli on the draw. He hits Tron T3 but plays O-stone and a Relic with 2 mana open. I combo out T3.
    G2 I keep a hand with Oath, Cobra, Rallier, Stony, and Felidar. T3 I play cobra into Rallier into Stony but he cracks his map in response. He hits Tron T3 or T4 and I haven't drawn anything relevant off Oath. He plays Ugin to exile my board, followed by Karn next turn, then Wurmcoil. Scoop.
    G3 Back on the play with Birds, Cobra, Saheeli, Pridemage, and Voice. My opponent is one turn behind finding tron. I topdeck Gaddock T3, get him on the field, and T4 I draw Evo off the top and Evolve Voice into Felidar to combo out.
    SB -2 Path, -2 Voice, -1 Rallier, -1 Courser // +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Unified Will, +1 Stony Silence, +1 Thalia GoT, +1 Gaddock, +1 Selfless Spirit
    2-1 games, 2-0 overall record

    Match 3: UG Merfolk
    G1 I was on the defensive pretty much immediately but with Saheeli in hand I thought I could still maybe pull it off if I could Evo into Felidar. He's amassing a big board so I feel pressured to get Saheeli out, protected by Voice, and tick her up. He swings in with 4 fish, 3 on saheeli, and 1 at me, then vials in a lord to kill her. Next turn I try to get some sustain by playing Evo (voice -> rhino) around curse catcher but it gets hit by Spell Pierce to seal the game.
    G2 I mull to 6, lead with oath, then put Explosives down T2 on 2. This slows down his board development, but he still has a 1-CMC Speaker, 2-CMC Branchwalker, and 3-CMC creature chipping in. My T3 Saheeli is Negated. I have to detonate explosives and Path one of his fish to stay alive but I'm on the backfoot the whole time. I set up some blockers with Voice and Elementals but he sticks an Islandwalk lord and my breeding pool betrays me.
    SB -2 Voice, -1 Kambal, -1 Rallier, -1 Rhino, -1 Lancers // +1 Path, +2 Explosives, +1 Rec Sage, +1 Finks, +1 Gearhulk
    0-2 games, 2-1 overall record

    Match 4: Abzan Combo Elves
    G1 I curve into Saheeli and scry to leave Felidar on the top. My opponent spews forth Elves, plays Shaman of the Pack to take me to 9, and then sacs 5 Elves to flip Westvale Abbey and hit me for the remaining 9. Dirty, but sweet.
    G2 I keep a hand with Birds, Cobra, Rallier, Evo, and Felidar. He plays Phyrexian Revoker naming Saheeli. I path Revoker, and next turn Evolve Rallier into Gearhulk to take out a couple dorks and a Druid, leaving him with a second Devoted Druid. Next turn he Chords into Vizier, uses infinite mana to play Ezuri and pump the Druid for lethal.
    SB -1 Voice, -1 Pridemage, -1 Kambal, -1 Rallier, -1 Rhino, -1 Lancers // +1 Path, +2 Explosives, +1 Gaddock, +1 Finks,
    +1 Gearhulk

    I should’ve let him keep the revoker off Gearhulk and saved Path for Druid.
    0-2 games, 2-2 overall record
    Thoughts & takeaways:

    Kambal was surprisingly solid against Shadow. Overall this matchup still feels pretty favorable outside of Temur Battle Rage hijinks.

    Got a little lucky against Tron, but I'll take it. Swapped the Unified Will back in the SB at just the right time.

    Despite the fact that Courser doesn't directly synergize with the deck's core, she put in work and it felt good to have her back.

    Thalia's Lancers didn't come up, but continues to be OK but not terribly exciting in theory.

    Games 3 & 4 were back-to-back 0-2 tribal-fueled blood baths. In retrospect I should've mulled down harder to dig for the combo here, I think I still need to develop a finer feel for what sorts of hands I can keep against aggro decks. In terms of removal choices Explosives seemed alright but it alone doesn't seem consistently strong enough to make a non-combo hand keepable. Obviously running the 4th Path in the 75 would be good if I can find room without overloading non-creature spells. I'm also thinking about other sweepers... Slaughter the Strong works well with Felidar / Birds but might give the opponent too much choice (such as allowing opponent to keep druid again), Settle the Wreckage is powerful but too gimmicky for repeated events at a shop, Kozilek's Revenge is interesting at instant speed though the symmetry hurts, could go back to 1x Fiery Justice, Supreme Verdict gets around Merfolk counterspells, Firespout could do some interesting asymmetric things vs Affinity... Worship ... a friend also suggested using Ensnaring Bridge since we can combo under it, which is interesting if we were able to dump our hand fast enough.


    Something I find really good vs merfolk, elves, humans, and affinity is ghostly prison. All depends how many non creature spells you want... 1 of cataclysmic gearhulk in the side has been Paramount vs these decks and lantern.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from Froop91 »
    I tested the deck a bit online. One concern I have that we play relatively few threats and our clock can be really slow sometimes... anybody though about adding bonepicker or madcap experiment + platinum emperion ? Could this make sense?


    You will look at half your deck in an average game because of looting and reveler, there are enough threats that people often remove the 2 swiftspear because it's not needed. You also can do a lot of incremental damage through burn.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    I'm not too savvy with this site in terms of replying and uploading deck list or tagging other users in my post. I'm not sure how to respond to multiple people in one message, nor do I know how to properly upload a deck list with the links and all. If someone wouldn't mind explaining some of these things to me I would be immensely grateful!

    Both Brulander and Doomfall brought up the negative aspects of Lavamancer in this deck, and I believe they are both spot on. I do think its fantastic against creature decks, but it impedes our own game plan a bit too much.

    I'll be keeping Blood Moon in the main based off of what Doomfall and Brulander have said. It's power is undeniable, and my alter is so berry sexy.

    Part of me still wants to include the plains, because there have been times where I've been in top deck mode with a reveler, young pyromancer, and a blood moon on the field, and I haven't been able to cast that top deck lingering souls/lightning helix. With that said, I undertsand that having the basic plains in the deck can create hands and situations where your mana base for the majority of the cards in our deck may be thrown off.

    Is helix really our weakest card? It always seems like a great tempo swing. It can go to the dome and kill a majority of the creatures we face. Its a fantastic card against burn, which has been acknowledged as one of our tougher matchups.

    I have removed dread bore, burst lightning, and a forked bolt to include two fatal pushes and a collective brutality. Would it be better to remove the two helixes for another brutality and to return dread bore to the main? I was considering keeping the helixes and cutting one of the three Kommands for the second brutality. Does 3 Kommands ever feel clunky? The main draw to dread bore is the unconditional planeswalker kill, but are there that many scenarios where we need a one of removal spell for a permanent type that while pesky, doesn't show up in half the decks that exist in the format? Dreadbore can also kill any creature, so at it's worst it's a sorcery speed terminate, which isn't bad.

    I guess what I'm most hung up on currently with the deck are the Helixs and whether or not they should remain, and if I should cut the 3rd Kommand for the second brutality. The other option, like I said above, is to cut the two helixs to bring in the second brutality and return the dreadbore.

    I'm going to be testing at FNM tonight and the decision is tough. It doesn't help that I have a foil helix from the original Rav. Lol

    The other consideration is to cut both swift spears instead of the helixs to bring in dreadbore and another brutality.

    I'm not too savvy with this site in terms of replying and uploading deck list or tagging other users in my post. I'm not sure how to respond to multiple people in one message, nor do I know how to properly upload a deck list with the links and all. If someone wouldn't mind explaining some of these things to me I would be immensely grateful!

    Both Brulander and Doomfall brought up the negative aspects of Lavamancer in this deck, and I believe they are both spot on. I do think its fantastic against creature decks, but it impedes our own game plan a bit too much.

    I'll be keeping Blood Moon in the main based off of what Doomfall and Brulander have said. It's power is undeniable, and my alter is so berry sexy.

    Part of me still wants to include the plains, because there have been times where I've been in top deck mode with a reveler, young pyromancer, and a blood moon on the field, and I haven't been able to cast that top deck lingering souls/lightning helix. With that said, I undertsand that having the basic plains in the deck can create hands and situations where your mana base for the majority of the cards in our deck may be thrown off.

    Is helix really our weakest card? It always seems like a great tempo swing. It can go to the dome and kill a majority of the creatures we face. Its a fantastic card against burn, which has been acknowledged as one of our tougher matchups.

    I have removed dread bore, burst lightning, and a forked bolt to include two fatal pushes and a collective brutality. Would it be better to remove the two helixes for another brutality and to return dread bore to the main? I was considering keeping the helixes and cutting one of the three Kommands for the second brutality. Does 3 Kommands ever feel clunky? The main draw to dread bore is the unconditional planeswalker kill, but are there that many scenarios where we need a one of removal spell for a permanent type that while pesky, doesn't show up in half the decks that exist in the format? Dreadbore can also kill any creature, so at it's worst it's a sorcery speed terminate, which isn't bad.

    I guess what I'm most hung up on currently with the deck are the Helixs and whether or not they should remain, and if I should cut the 3rd Kommand for the second brutality. The other option, like I said above, is to cut the two helixs to bring in the second brutality and return the dreadbore.

    I'm going to be testing at FNM tonight and the decision is tough. It doesn't help that I have a foil helix from the original Rav. Lol

    The other consideration is to cut both swift spears instead of the helixs to bring in dreadbore and another brutality.



    One of the big problems with helix is it often costs you an extra 2 life to fetch shock instead of just fetching up a basic which you can reliably do when you replace the helix with brutality. Therefore your really not getting much off the helix.

    As for the other stuff it's all meta but I prefer dropping the 2 creatures to add more spells. I love the 1 of Dreadbore and forked bolts because I see affinity and elves quite a bit.

    I'm currently on 2 kcmd because yes sometimes it does feel clunky.

    Burst lightning is a free cut for whatever you prefer.

    For reference here is my list tuned to fight burn and combo which makes up a large portion of my local meta:

    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Hi everyone! Long time lurker, but first time poster.

    I've been getting back into modern these past two months. Before picking up Mardu Pyromancer I was on U/W control for a bit, but I love the Mardu colors and have always thought hand disruption to be one of the most efficient ways to handle a wide variety of threats. Can't play what you don't have in your hand, well, that's true most of the time lol.

    I've made a few changes to Self's "stock" list.

    I've dropped burst lightning and a forked bolt for two fatal pushes in the main. The kicker on burst lightning I found to be too heavy, and fork bolt is great, but sometimes things need to die. Can't tell you how many times a champion of the parish with a fat ass pushed my ***** in.

    I've cut a Kommand and dreadbore for 2 collective brutality. Kommand at 3 mana feels a bit heavy at times, and more often then not it gets pitched to reveler or looting. Dreadbore is great unconditional removal against a permanent type that can be a real nuisance to handle, and so I've kept it in the side. I've found the versatility of brutality to be pretty great. Kills most dudes, great against combo decks, and the life drain/gain has been more relevant than I believed.

    The three cards I'm iffy on are the two swiftspears and one of blood moon. I've recently been thinking about trying out grim lavamancer in the place of swiftspear. What do you all think? Has anyone tested lavamancer in her place?

    In regards to blood moon, I have a sick alter, and there are times where it just wins you games that you have no right winning. Can really hose a good bit of decks that aren't ready for it game one, but lately I've been contemplating the 20th land.

    If I take moon out of the maindeck, then the terminates may become paths.

    I've also included a basic plains in the deck. I run 2 helix in the main and with the blood moon in the main I feel it's nice to be able to fetch a plains out and still cast helix through blood moon if need be. I know that souls can be flashed back, but if you don't have a way to pitch it, then it can be a dead card in hand.

    I'll post my current list later when I'm not on the *****ter at work.

    Any feedback is wanted and welcome!



    I feel like the helix's are natural cuts for the brutalities, definitely not a dreadbore as it fulfills a specific role that is incredibly important when it comes up which is common enough to warrant a MD spot. Helix also complicates our manabase, if you really want to cast helix early in the game you are often taking at least 2 extra damage off lands to do so which takes away a lot of the cards value. Outside of that, the first cards ide consider cutting/replacing would be the burst lightning and the two swiftspears.

    Lavamancer can basically be looked at like a big delve creature. They both screw with your flashback spells and revelers just as much as one another and should not be included in this deck.

    1 Blood Moon is a freebee in a big wide open meta, it doesnt hurt anything to include it as you can just discard it to one of your 10 self discarding spells if its not good. But if it is good, it can just win a game you have no reason to win. However, if you are tuning for a small LGS feel free to cut it if you dont think it is good.

    As has been mentioned before, adding plains just dilutes the deck and creates less optimal hands. Terminate is 1 more mana but does not give your opponent a land. I would rather run more terminate than path and let those other color wedges be forced into running path, with or without blood moon in my deck.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from ffeJ »
    I kinda like the 1-of nahiri. I was thinking since I'm going to run 2 maindeck
    Blood moons, I want to run one plains.

    I know we're supposed to be keeping white to a minimum. Am I shooting myself in the foot here?

    Here is what I was thinking of sleeving up:

    4x Young Peezy
    4x Bedlam Reveler

    4x Bolt
    4x Inquisition
    4x Faithless Looting
    4x Lingering Souls
    3x Kolaghan's
    3x Thoughtseize
    2x Terminate
    2x Collective
    1x Dreadbore
    2x Forked Bolt

    2x Blood Moon

    1x Nahiri

    4x Bloodstained
    3x Blackcleave Cliff
    3x Marsh Flats
    2x Blood Crypt
    1x Sacred Foundry
    1x Godless Shrine
    3x Mountain
    2x Swamp
    1x Plains


    Sideboard:

    4x Molten Rain
    3x Fatal Push
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Wear // Tear
    2x Nihil Spellbomb
    1x Kambal, Consul of All ovation
    1x Thoughtseize


    As you eluded to I do believe you are just bogging down the deck and shooting yourself in the foot. The 1 Blood Moon is there as just a free win when its good in a large meta. With 4 Faithless Looting and 4 Bedlam Reveler you are looking at a good portion of your deck already and finding that 1 moon isnt to hard when you want it.

    Nahiri is just to slow and to expensive in this deck, if you have a bedlam and nahiri in hand you are forcing yourself to wait for the 4th land drop before you can cast either. Plus this deck has been gravitating away from white as much as possible which leads me to my next point...

    After replacing helix with brutality(a much better fit imo) your only white spell in the MD is lingering souls which is a prime target for all the discard in your deck to retain value. The majority of the time you are not looking to cast lingering souls from hand.

    You are severely diluting the quality of your starting hands. As is you only want to see 2-3 lands, with your changes if any of those are a basic plains you now need an extra land or are forced to mulligan. With the standard deck, double reveler in your opener is very weak unless facing a discard opponent, adding nahiri to this further increases cards you dont want to see in your opening 7.

    The changes you are making just dont align with what this deck is trying to do. That is my opinion.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from ffeJ »
    Where are you guys at on the creature base? I'm not a huge fan of swiftspear. Is she necessary? What about some running 1-2 pack rat? It would let us discard late game land/dead draws and also discard souls.


    The only 2 creatures that have put up results in that slot is swiftspear > Bomat courier. And no she isn't required, a lot of the good record finishes including gp santa Clara which is the decks best paper showing replaced those 2 slots with more cheap spells like fatal push.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    Quote from cloud_88 »
    What's the plan against UR Storm?


    Have to present a clock while killing their creatures on sight and prioritizing discard. Post SB bring in all my hate, kambals, eidolons, more discard, pretty much anything relevant and take out the slower stuff like moon, kcommands, souls, forked bolts.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mardu (Dega/BWR) Midrange
    So I played the base selfeisek list for the first time this past weekend and went 3-0-1, lost top 4.

    Rd 1 - Burn, got pretty lucky here as game 1 he stumbled at 1 land, game 2 he curved out and beat me, then game 3 I drew Kambal and Dragon's Claw and I dont think he was prepared with any artifact destruction.

    Rd 2 - Infect, again... lucky, he had no chance. 2-0.

    Rd 3 - Elves, thank the matchmaking gods as a nice easy 3-0.

    Rd 4 - Intentional Draw with Lantern. I really didnt want to play that deck anyway.

    Top 4 - I have play vs Merfolk, a good buddy of mine. G1 I go discard into pyro into second pyro and continue casting cheap spells and am able to race his average hand. G2 I open with a rather weak hand but I remember there being a pyro and a shattering spree with an average amount of lands so I kept. He plays vial, I kill vial, then he proceeds to play a vapor snag and a couple lords while I attempt to kill lords and stick some kind of threat. It ends when he gets a master of waves out, even after i finally find and cast a reveler. G3 I had a 1land7 with no looting, a 0land6 and then a mediocre 5 keep. I just remember this one being a chump fest for me and my lingering souls until he landed a lord and swam all over me.

    Overall, the deck ran pretty well and my lack of experience with the deck was prevalent. I probably could have went on to the top 2 vs the Elf player if I didnt have such bad opening hands in game 3.

    There were a couple awkward things with the deck:

    Burst lightning and Forked Bolt would often just be looting discard fodder or 2 damage to the face which didnt feel particularly useful. Lightning Helix with no godless shrine and RR for reveler and so few lands just felt horrible.

    Monastery Swiftspear never really got more than 1-3 damage in for me and always just felt worse than T1 discard or often T1 looting looking to sculpt a better hand.

    Bloodmoon G1 felt largely unnecessary in my small local meta as we have a skred player who frequents modern events(im sure would be better in an open meta).

    Kolaghan's Command just sat in my hand most games. I can see the usefulness but more often than not I would burn through my hand and have a KCMD and Reveler and end up ditching the KCMD. Once again, that was vs a few fast decks and would understand its value in the longer grindier games.

    As a final note, some changes I am contemplating to rememdy my brief experience with the deck:
    -2 Swiftspear
    -1 KCMD
    -1 Blood Moon
    -2 Helix
    -2 Forked Bolt
    -1 Burt Lightning
    -1 Dreadbore(card i least wanted to cut but I dont see a lot of planeswalkers running around my meta)

    +1 Blood Crypt
    +4 Collective Brutality(this may be to many, but with the playset it leaves me 12 discard outlets for Fiery Temper)
    +3 Fiery Temper(in the proposed shell, basically 5-8 lightning bolts with minimal effort)
    +2 Fatal Push(i desperately craved a way to get master of waves off the board and between these and collective brutality that shouldnt happen again)

    SB:
    3 Blood Moon
    4 Nihil Spellbomb/Leyline of the Void
    3 Dragon's Claw
    2 Wear Tear
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Shattering Spree

    I feel with 4 MD Brutality, 4 IOK, and 3 Thoughtseize I can often put the big mana decks at the mercy of topdecking G1, while adding blood moon to the mix G2-3 and having a chance. **Untested**

    Please post thoughts and critiques.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
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